SO what's the REAL lowdown on Squats on a Smith machine?

[Lumberg]

My gym only has a Smith machine. No squat rack. A home gym is in the works. Meanwhile.......

I do squats on the Smith. I personally like to put my feet slightly BEHIND the center line because I feel this movement more closely mimics a free weight squat in that it recruits your back slightly.

I always assumed the "right" way to do it is to center yourself exactly below the bar. I mean, draw an imaginary line on the ground exactly below the bar. The arch of your foot should be centered over it.

The other day I saw a trainer instruct a person to stand in front of the bar and "lean back" into it (I figure to effectively make it a hack squat type deal). Probably bad advice but would like input.

Basically I offered to hel train a girl at work and want to know the lowdown form the experts on EF before I give her really bad advice and she houses her back.

As of now I am planning to tell her to either center her feet or place them slightly behind the bar.

JC

 

[vinylgroover]

I'm not a big fan of them John, but i guess you have to work with the equipment you've got.

I agree with the stance you propose. I often see people with exaggerated stances when doing smith machine squats, mostly with feet too far forward which cannot be good for knees or back.

I think trying to mimic a free squat as far as stance is concerned is the best way to go. I don't see why people change the rules in terms of stances just because the machinery is different. Keep it as natural as possible.

 

[MohawkMuscle]

I find i get a better quad pump while doing smith squats. I am tall 6ft and with BB squats I find I tend to lean too much. I still ike BB squats but I have been using smith squats as part of a triset
leg ext
leg press
smith squats

And I can stay up right and go to failure without worry.

Studies show it works the leg muscles just like BB squat except you get less calf work.

 

[The Shadow]

I continue to like them very much although that is CERTAINLY not the popular answer on here...

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Im sure free weights is better, but I like the feel of smiths...

I even do them for my incline press and I find I can just push and concentrate on the muscle as opposed to balancing and stuff like that.

I do prefer DB but my gym only goes up to 130lbs

 

[onemind]

I think you should use a stance that feels comfortable for you.

 

[louden_swain]

At least you are squatting with what you have. I personally hate squatting on the smith machine because it feels very unnatural to me. You can still get a good workout, but it wouldn't hurt to train at another gym every so often so you can use a squat rack.

 

[Hannibal]

I continue to like them very much although that is CERTAINLY not the popular answer on here...

...and they call you a moderator.

 

[bignate73]

quite frankly the bar doesnt follow a perfectly straight line so you put more stress on your back than is necessary. when leaning back into it, it is similar to a hack squat and at least the forces of the bar are directed down a straight spine versus one that is exaggerated forward more unnaturally.

exerpt from ISSA exercise descriptions:

smith machine squat

Assuming that the Smith machine is bolted to the floor (most are not) and has a safety spotting device (most do not), performing squats on the Smith Machine has been regarded as a pretty safe alternative to free-standing squats for years. Unfortunately, this belief is based on myth, and is not true.
First, you cannot do squats in this apparatus with your feet directly under the bar because the weight goes up and down vertically. That forces you to poke your butt rearwards due to the fact that your ankles are not flexible enough to keep your hips under the bar when descending into the "hole." This position would also cause tremendous shear forces to be placed on your lumbar spine.

Consequently, in order to do squats, you must place your feet about 8-10 inches or so in front of the bar. The fact that you're actually "leaning" against the bar during a Smith machine squat, you're minimizing shear forces in the lower back. However, shear on the knees is still considerable. Beware!

take it for what its worth. a well executed front squat cleaned from the floor IMO, will be a more worthwhile exercise. you get strong cleaning the bar up, and finally squatting it. but thats just me. all i need is a bar and i'm happy.

 

[Lord_Suston]

smith machine

I really don't like them for squats becau I feel unnatural when the weight is real low, but I do like them for front squats.... Very effective if you have a strong back to keep stabilized. You don't have to worry about tipping forward and the emphasis on the quads is nice, plus with the rack being there you don't have to worry about going to low and not being able to finish....

 

[Vortexx]

Try FRONT SQUATS on the smith machine, this will allow to keep your back upright to direct a lot of stress to the quads while you still can place your feet closer to the center of gravity and have more freedom in the hips to evenly spread the shearing forces between knees and back

 

[Lumberg]

wow. awesome responses guys.

Vortexx and Lord_Suston, where do you place your feet for front squats on the Smith?

bignate, what is the lowdown on front squats on the Smith?

Corn, Mohawk, where do you put your feet to do back squats on the Smith?

JC

 

[Lord_Suston]

feet placement

I usually put them in line with the bar at shoulder width apart.. This keeps my back pretty straight, and is easy on the knees... It really depends on your body mechanics, try it with no weight and proceed from there, good luck...

 

[The Shadow]

my feet are kicked out in front...

Hannibal - lol - tell my quads that they are not a good exercise....

 

[Hannibal]

Hannibal - lol - tell my quads that they are not a good exercise....

Only if you explain to my KNEES why I would want to squat with my quads in the first place....

 

[bignate73]

front squats are a different story. the bar placement during a regular front squat is in the front which allows the torso to remain more upright so less problems for your back. main thing is to set the feet up in a position so you are pushing up instead of back, but it shouldnt be a problem since the bar placement is better. basically just mimic the front squat as much as possible. you may have to set the feet just slightly further forward of a normal standing position because the hips tend to move back on the descent(and the bar would usually follow). if you dont move your feet forward it will cause you to stick your butt out more placing your back in a more vulnerable position.

 

[The Shadow]

Only if you explain to my KNEES why I would want to squat with my quads in the first place....

...for quad delelopment not as a hips and glutes xercise....

 

[Hannibal]

...for quad delelopment not as a hips and glutes xercise....

Understood...but why?

Quad development??!

 

[The Shadow]

what do you mean??

I specifically do squats to activate as much quad as possible while minimizing hip and glute involvement - feet way out in front close stance.....I also do leg extensions...whcih plters hate as wel for some reason...although Shane Hammons - the youngest man to ever squat 1000 uses the on a regular basis and dwears they have helped him in his pfltng pursuits...

 

[Lumberg]

Ok I understand. I actually just got back from the gym where I experimented.

I did front squats and put my feet directly under the bar. I did notice the tendency to want to stick my butt out, and I definitely noticed it with back squats with my feet back.

However I think I have good instincts or recruitment patterns or whatever you want to call it because when I feel that I consciously try to push forward with my hips.

As an added bonus I think that will strenghten my glutes and perhaps even my posterior chain.

After reading bignates posts (which are very helpful--karma coming your way), I think I am safe in putting my feet back as long as I am conscious of not letting my butt stick out too far.

When I train that girl I will start her out with feet forward or directly under and also tell her to watch out for sticking out her butt.

Thanks guys I have learned a lot and I hope y'all did too.

JC

 

[Hannibal]

what do you mean??

I specifically do squats to activate as much quad as possible while minimizing hip and glute involvement - feet way out in front close stance.....I also do leg extensions...whcih plters hate as wel for some reason...although Shane Hammons - the youngest man to ever squat 1000 uses the on a regular basis and dwears they have helped him in his pfltng pursuits...

Apparently my sacrasm was too mild for you.

And your reference to Shane Hammons...his background is in Olympic Lifting. And we all know that the Olympic Squat as well as several of the OLifts require a great deal of quad development and muscle recruitment. So it would just stand to reason that he would "swear" by them...because that is what got him where he is. However, a lifter whose background is more based on the three classic lifts will soon learn that the greatest potential in the squat comes from the hips, glutes and hammies.

 

[The Shadow]

so there is a difference between the olympic squats and poweflt squats???

Again this is a bb'er vs. lifter approach...

no offense either way....

but doesn't it reason that by building ALL the muscles in the leg(quads specifically) that it woulr trasnlate into bigger lifts?

 

[Hannibal]

so there is a difference between the olympic squats and poweflt squats???

Again this is a bb'er vs. lifter approach...

no offense either way....

but doesn't it reason that by building ALL the muscles in the leg(quads specifically) that it woulr trasnlate into bigger lifts?

An Olympic Squat would also be known as an ATTF Squat. In a powerlifting comp the crease of your hip only has to break the plane of your knee by an inch or so. And in a Powerlifting squat...if your form is on...sit back, knees out, shins vertical...then your quad involvement will be minimal. And the hips, glutes and hammies have greater potential for moving weight then a "quad dominant squatter"...there are always exceptions.

 

[MohawkMuscle]

I keep my feet about shoulder width apart with toes pointing out. My feet are usually inline with the machine or maybe just a tad in front. where ever is comfortable.

 

[gmanlax7]

i like to switch it up between smith and bb squats. On the smith i use a feet in front stance, and think this works well for allowing me to comfortably go lower then i would with the Bb and move myshins and knees as little as possible, but doni this too often will throw off balance when I go to BB squats, because you cant lean back onto the bar for support like with the smith.I use the smith for incline bench too, and as with squats, iI realy like how I can just use big weight and push your heart out, stressing form a lot less than free weights, and with no fear of failure in the back of your mind. sorry, this got long

 

[casavant]

I find i get a better quad pump while doing smith squats. I am tall 6ft and with BB squats I find I tend to lean too much. I still ike BB squats but I have been using smith squats as part of a triset
leg ext
leg press
smith squats

And I can stay up right and go to failure without worry.

Studies show it works the leg muscles just like BB squat except you get less calf work.

Glad I'm not the only one. I get a great pump off the hack squat machine, but if I do them very often my knees feel like they're going to explode out the front of my leg. Too bad, because they really smoke my quads.

 

[Lumberg]

It's funny, exercises that really smoke your quads (hacks, smith machine squats with feet out front, leg extensions) are generally regarded as bad for the knees.

I think this is because the majority of knee problems have to do with the quad pulling too hard on the front of the knee without an equivalent, stabilizing force from the hamstring or rear.

I know that this is how most ACL injuries happen, and people are advised to both strengthen and stetch their hammies to prevent this type of injury.

The only exercise I can think of that focuses on quads that isn't also known as being bad for knees is front squats.

JC