Remember That MRI I Was Getting? Got the Results.

[musclemom]

1) It's nice to see you post MM. Please show-up more often.

You're sweet, I'm not leaving, but posting volume isn't going to go up much anytime in the near future, life, work, continued need to rest the arm and other stuff I have committed to spend my time on forces me to make a choice how I spend my time

2) I sincerely hope you get better.

Thank you, hon, I am better, seriously. You privately expressed your doubts regarding PRP but I stand by my opinion, none of the doctors tried it in combination with increased GH levels and like I said earlier, the guy I'm seeing is considered one of the top guys in this field.

3) And now, at the risk of sounding like an asshole (I've accepted it, it's my mileau), if you had had surgery around the original date of your post, wouldn't you be finishing-up rehabilitation by now?

Under ideal circumstances, if I were 15 or 20 years younger, maybe, and that's a serious maybe. Everyone I know, and even Chris/smurf or whatever his name is now told me, shoulder rehab is not pretty. One of the big put-offs for me with shoulder surgery, particularly considering I had two tears, was the idea of my arm being in an immobilizer (my dominant arm, mind you, and I'm EXTREMELY right-handed) for anywhere from a month to six weeks and that was BEFORE rehab. Then the recovery/PT, just not pretty. And if the surgery went bad, I could be perma-fucked for life. Don't believe me, ask an ortho what the recovery from shoulder surgery is like for someone over 40, especially less than best case scenarios (and let's not even start to discuss hospital acquired infections and all that lovely disgusting shit). Look at it from my perspective, I'm self employed with absolutely no benes. All I lost was 3 weeks of work from these procedures, total.

In the final analysis, this may sound nuts to 99% of the population, but I live in my body. I have had historically horrific luck with conventional medicine. I have had weird reactions to medications that don't crop up until the meds are administered (not allergies, paradoxical reactions) and I have severe DJD in my neck that makes me genuinely terrified of being anesthetized without neurosurgical monitoring and what doctor would even consider that (never mind trying to justify it to an insurance company) for a freaking RC tear? (yes, it is so severe that being unconscious and limp with my arm outstretched for more than 15 minutes could cause nerve damage).

And finally, perhaps to me most frightening, you can also go under the knife for this sort of surgery (and remember, mine was caused by a chronic congenital condition, NOT a trauma, again, less likely positive surgical outcome) and end up with permanent nerve damage making you WAY more screwed up than you were to begin with, or leaving you with permanent, intractable pain, tingling or numbness. Frankly, I don't give a shit if the odds are 10:1, I don't need to be the 1 when A) It's my dominant arm/hand and B) The ONLY way I have of making a living relies on BOTH of my hands functioning properly and my family relies on my income, meager as it is.

As I said from the beginning, I weighed the pros and cons. I had my first procedure in May, second in late June, the most recent on August 1, it has cost me a total of $2,800 out of pocket, and I lost only three weeks worth of work and never completely lost the use of my arm (granted, I had to move it with great care and it hurt like hell, but I could use it). Currently, my arm is better than it was when I started. For me, absolutely no downside, period. The worst downside was potentially NO improvement.

As I said to you privately, maybe the orthos should have tried adding GH to the mix.

Or maybe PRP, at less than $3,000 (and I got the Cadillac procedure with the added fat graft) just isn't as profitable as charging five figures plus to an insurance company for surgery The PRP sessions took about 30 minutes or so each (not counting drawing and spinning blood). That means my doctor made just about $31.10/minute. Not a heck of a lot (from a medical perspective). I think a surgeon's fee of $5,000 for a 90 minute procedure is probably a lowball figure, that comes out to $55.55 a minute. Exactly what incentive would the average ortho or sports medicine guy have to encourage patients to undergo a procedure that's going to lose them about $1,500 and end up with the same basic result for the patient? Sorry, I do not have that much belief in the altruism of most of humanity. Yes, there are some true healers out there who are happy to make a living and take joy in truly healing people, but the cynical bastards who are smart and basically just want to get the Ferrari and house in Boca paid off outnumber them by A LOT.

Hey, did I tell you that I went to a hospital (which was my "in plan location") to get shoulder x-rays (3 views)? The cost to my insurance company? $1,247. My chiropractor sent an uninsured patient to a local imaging place for knee x-rays, like three or four views. The cash cost to the uninsured patient? $75.

Long ramble short, my arm IS better and getting better every day, sorry to disappoint.

If it's any comfort, I believe MOST "unbiased" medical studies, aren't Especially when the procedures/supplements/concepts go against long accepted conventional medical paradigms.

 

[Whiskey]

damners, good luck with the recovery. Mad props for posting this all up. I've never heard of PRP until now

Whiskey

 

[mrplunkey]

Hey, did I tell you that I went to a hospital (which was my "in plan location") to get shoulder x-rays (3 views)? The cost to my insurance company? $1,247. My chiropractor sent an uninsured patient to a local imaging place for knee x-rays, like three or four views. The cash cost to the uninsured patient? $75.

That always, always, always happens when the consumer of health care and the payer of health care are the same person. My favorite benchmark procedure is breast augmentation versus hip replacement:

1) Breast augmentation:

A) Red carpet treatment before and after procedure
B) Immaculate pain control
C) Roughly 1.5 procedure (mostly suturing)
D) Two high-liability implants
Total cost: $3,000-$4,000

2) Hip replacement:

A) Sit in waiting rooms like cattle in the stockyard
B) Who knows what pain/rehab you'll get -- it varies
C) Roughly 45 minute procedure (unless you're fat or waited too long)
D) One high-liability implant
Total cost: $45,000-$55,000

Go figure. What's the difference? People pay out of pocket for boobs and Uncle Sam pays for the vast majority of hips.

We could just voucher Medicare at $0.50 on the dollar and by making people spend "their" money, probably have a good 20% left over.

 

[PICK3]

Plunkey pays for all of my procedures

 

[musclemom]

Well, just had my follow up. Had my last PRP on August 1. For those of you not keeping up, it wasn't straight PRP, it was PRP + fat graft. And for those who feel like keeping tally, August 1 made my third session: First one cost $800, second $900 and third $1,100 (all out of pocket). The first session and the fat graft session both left my arm extremely painful for about 9 days (I was never completely unable to use the arm, but using it hurt so badly that even slight movements meant actually breathing through the motion and doing everything at about 1/4 speed).

So, I started with 2 separate tendon tears, one bad, one very bad, neither total, no atrophy. I'm now 2/3 healed (one is 100%). All I have left is some gaps in the worst torn tendon. I could go into PT now if I wanted. I've decided to pass and will have one more PRP session. Doc and I have agreed that it's functional but if I really want to go back into weight training then filling in the couple of remaining gaps would alleviate any concerns over future tears. He put me through my paces (orthopedic tests). BTW, tests I couldn't perform AT ALL before my first treatment I can now do with, at worst, a twinge of discomfort.

So, PRP vs. surgery: PRP has taken longer and probably cost more out of pocket, however, I never completely lost the use of my arm (surgery would definitely have put it in an immobilizer for 4 weeks, minimum, with my tears) and I was never under general anesthesia which carries a whole other set of risks.

PRP all the way IMO, however, I have a historically bad track record with conventional medicine (with good reason). In addition, bear in mind I took various dietary supplements to help the healing process (antioxidants, stem cell accelerators) boosted my growth hormone levels with the use of peptides, and while I did not have my arm in an immobilizer, I drastically cut back my use of it and despite 2/3 improvement, weight training is NOT on the immediate horizon. One more PRP (might be PRP + graft), 6+ weeks recovery then P/T so I probably ain't pulling iron before 2012.

PRP works, but like everything else alternative, it takes longer and costs more. Upside, when it's done, it's fixed, and your body did the fixing. And even if it doesn't work, barring failure on the part of the physician you probably won't be worse off than you were to begin with (no guarantees, but have you ever actually read the preoperative disclosure statements? I have, because I've typed them).

But it's worked/working (one more assessment/treatment on 10/21), I'm very happy with the current results Arm works better than it has in 11 months, I'm good with it.

 

[PICK3]

Arm works better than it has in 11 months, I'm good with it.

Good to hear!

 

[miplank]

That always, always, always happens when the consumer of health care and the payer of health care are the same person. My favorite benchmark procedure is breast augmentation versus hip replacement:

1) Breast augmentation:

A) Red carpet treatment before and after procedure
B) Immaculate pain control
C) Roughly 1.5 procedure (mostly suturing)
D) Two high-liability implants
Total cost: $3,000-$4,000

2) Hip replacement:

A) Sit in waiting rooms like cattle in the stockyard
B) Who knows what pain/rehab you'll get -- it varies
C) Roughly 45 minute procedure (unless you're fat or waited too long)
D) One high-liability implant
Total cost: $45,000-$55,000

Go figure. What's the difference? People pay out of pocket for boobs and Uncle Sam pays for the vast majority of hips.

We could just voucher Medicare at $0.50 on the dollar and by making people spend "their" money, probably have a good 20% left over.

wtf kinda titty jobs are bitches getting for $3,000? My wifes was $7500

 

[penny]

Good to hear that Musclemom! Won't be too long and you'll be as good as new!

 

[smurf2]

wtf kinda titty jobs are bitches getting for $3,000? My wifes was $7500

"oh look at me. my wife has high-end tits"

 

[miplank]

lol