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Real Estate People

alex2678

New member
Around 3 years ago I finished my Masters degree, couldn't get a decent entry level job in my field (I/O Psychology) so I took a typical office job that I'm looking to get out of. In that time period I got my real estate license and just last week decided to join a local agency. I'm doing some training before work a few days a week and would like to get started. Possibly doing it full time.

In this particular office there's a bunch of people who close on average of 50-70 properties per year as well as invest. I know they've been doing this for a while and have a lot more knowledge on the do's and don'ts than I do, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a good place to start to get info on how to make a decent living out of real estate. There's tons of books and websites. Not sure what's good and what's bad. Would like to get an idea of how to get started in the field. Thanks in advance.
 
alex2678 said:
Around 3 years ago I finished my Masters degree, couldn't get a decent entry level job in my field (I/O Psychology) so I took a typical office job that I'm looking to get out of. In that time period I got my real estate license and just last week decided to join a local agency. I'm doing some training before work a few days a week and would like to get started. Possibly doing it full time.

In this particular office there's a bunch of people who close on average of 50-70 properties per year as well as invest. I know they've been doing this for a while and have a lot more knowledge on the do's and don'ts than I do, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a good place to start to get info on how to make a decent living out of real estate. There's tons of books and websites. Not sure what's good and what's bad. Would like to get an idea of how to get started in the field. Thanks in advance.
there are TONS of books on this as it is a field that's pretty hard to make a full time living at starting out cold. my girlfriend was selling houses a couple years ago she took a year off law school and she was pretty successful at it, made $60,000 in 9 months, and she knows which book is the best, but here is the BEST advice I can offer you. Find a brokerage that is already VERY successful and has lots of leads brought to them, and become a buyer's agent for them. It's 1,000x easier than going at it alone having to cold call and beat the pavement starting out. Find out which REMAX's or whatever franchise in your area is the highest ranked (They rank them all in publications because they want them to compete with each other) and try to meet some people in the ones that do the most business.

I'll see if I can find a book recommendation for you, good luck
 
Hey thanks. If you find the name of that book let me know. I saw a ton of them at Borders the other day but I just bought one on real estate investing instead.

I signed up with an ERA already. I could always change if I see they're not getting too many leads. The owner of the company used to build houses so I imagine he's got some connections to help out his agents. Not big into cold calling so you're right I'm gonna go with trying to work with buyers. There's a class coming up next week I'm taking dealing with calling For Sale By Owners and expired listings. Most people just don't want to be bothered by phone though. We'll see how it works out. I'm gonna put all my effort into it and see what happens. Thanks again.
 
Remax won't let you work there. BTW your picking probably the worst time to start as an agent. 20% of the agents make 80% of the money. Not a problem in a roaring market but the market is slowing down at best. Also when the market is going well a lot of new people show up so the sales force gets a bit bloated.
 
That's what I've heard. I just started doing a little in the morning before work and on the weekends. Just went to the office early this morning for the first time after the required training that I had to sit through for the last few weeks. Got a floor call and have a client I'm gonna be working with trying to get a multi-family. Early luck I know. I'll see how it goes.

I agree, it seems like there's only a handful of really good agents out there who seem to get all the business. One of my friend's brother owns a mortgage company and said he'll keep my cards at his place. I'll just try to be as pushy as I can and see what happens. Hopefully I can at least get a start. :whatever:
 
BonerBoy said:
I have some advice for a budding RE agent. Buy and read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.

Best damn book I ever read! Along with "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill..

T-Matt
 
Are you talking about being an agent, being a broker, or being a real estate investor?

First let me disclose that IMHO real estate is a terrible business.

Agents work extremely hard and most of them don't make very much money. The myth of the millionaire real estate agent has only exacerbated the problem by causing an enormous influx of agents over the last 5 years. Not the environment in which to enter the chosen profession of Willy Loman and Shelly Levene.

Brokers are the capitalists of the sales business. The prospects here are basically the same as any small business/franchise opportunity. It will take startup capital and a lot of relationships, plus you take liability and have to manage lots of agents, many of whom are dumb/worthless. There's money to be made here but to me it seems like if you could find success here you could find more in a different entrepreneurial activity.

As for investing in real estate, that business boils down to a very simple proposition: if the market goes your way you will make good money, and if it doesn't you will go bankrupt. Real estate investors take highly leveraged positions in illiquid assets, which is another way of saying they make big bets they can't get out of with money that isn't theirs. This is one of those businesses where luck is misconstrued as business acumen, but for a lot of people getting lucky is the only they'll ever make any money so to each his own. This is a risky business to say the least, but if this is your chosen path you should learn about LLC's and LLP's to protect your worth in case the market doesn't want to give you a bunch of money.
 
Thanks for the reply Zaxxon. I'm giving it a trial run for now while I'm definitely keeping my day job. Only been in it for 2 weeks as of today. I have 3 buyers I'm working with. One is putting in an offer tomorrow. No listings yet, which from what I've heard should be my priority. There's a builder putting up a over 55 housing complex who isn't working with an agent as of yet so I might go ask how I can go about listing some of his houses. I'm at a really small ERA and there's a couple agents who have been doing it for 10 plus years who make a ton of money mostly from referrals. I don't expect to be in that same category any time soon. For now I'll just try to get some FSBO's and expired listings whenever I can and hand out my card to whoever I know.

It's a long shot at making this a full time job. I have my MA in Psych/H.R. that I just finished paying for and I never could get hired in that field. I might start applying again soon. Seems like a waste of a college education after all that. :rolleyes:
 
I have been in the R/E and banking industry for 5 years. I got here a little before the Refi boom and still here afterwards. I can say from experience that without complete dedication, you will just spin your wheels for however long a term you decide to pursue this. You work out and get big, being in real estate goes by the same principles. You need to follow some very important steps, some of which are:

1. Hand out your card and smile at everyone you have a somewhat intelligent conversation with.

2. Advertise, it doesn't matter if it is a major advertisement. You will get people that talk to you based on where you advertise.

3. Cold call, even if you don't like it...it will give you your bread and butter.

4. Network, look into starting a networking group. Groups like this are called...LeTip, Rainmakers and there are other groups out there. Look for CPA's and financial planners, they will be looking for tax deferred investments for their clients.

5. Be organized. Organization is the key to success. Without a well formulated plan and action, it is hard to succeed.

6. Be a slave to working, if you don't in the beginning you will not become successful.


I hope this has helped, I am sorry for my short response earlier in the thread. I was trying to discourage you from getting into such a declining market. If you need any help feel free to email me at [email protected].

Good Luck

Lost
 
Some great advice up there Lost. Very much appreciated. Especially number 4. I'm going to look into those this week.

The cold calling I always assumed was a waste but I think you're about the fifth person this week to mention it as a positive thing. I'm going to start this as soon as I can. A couple of the agents started off picking a neighborhood, going down the list of phone numbers and just asking them if they plan on selling their home sometime in the near future or if they knew someone who was looking to sell. There's one guy who use to do this all day long until he got a lead or a listing. Today he does nothing but work with referrals and he's got about 5 houses listed for this month. Doesn't really sound like it works but I believe anyone who's been in the business moreso than myself. Will give that a try as well.

Just showed a house this evening as a matter of fact. They didn't like it as much but I'm forwarding them some more houses in the area tomorrow morning. And they still have to sell their house so I'll be listing that when they find something they want to buy. Hopefully it'll be a nice smooth transaction. I've heard some horror stories but I guess that's expected in any business.
 
My personal opinion is that you will make more money doing investing than being an agent plus you get to keep part to all of the commission depending on your arrangement with your broker (I keep 90% on my investments and 100% on personal properties to give you an idea). I got my license for the sole purpose of having access to the MLS to locate properties. Representing people is very time consuming and my time is much better spent buying and flipping or renting.

You can make money in just about any real estate environment because you make money when you buy not when you sell. With the slump right now you can purchase cheaper and get better terms.

No matter what type of investing you do it real comes down to simple math----projected income minus projected expenses. Only mistakes you can really make are underestimating expenses or overestimating income. You will get better at both as time goes on so give yourself more room for error in the begining.

First recommendation would be see if you can work with another investor to get the hang of it, something like an intership. Second would be get a book geared toward what you are interested in doing like flipping or renting, etc. A good resource is www.mrlandlord.com, which has a good list of books and other info.

Perp
 
Thank Perp for that link. Lots of useful info on there I'll be looking at. Investing and buying is something I'm really interested in doing. There was a property around here that just sold for 134 K. An investor bought it the third day it went on the market and I'm sure he'll get a good return.

Just listed my first condo today. 193,900. Most of the condos in that complex go pretty fast so I'm hoping I can make my first sale soon.

Have 6 people signed for a three month buyer brokerage as of today. One of them has a house he wants to list next month when he narrows down his search for a house.

Investing well or becoming a really good listing agent seems to be a lot more productive than working with buyers. The gas I'm spending running these people around is a bit much.

Thanks again for the replys. Very much appreciated and helpful. I'll post up when I decide to start buying and selling. Some homework on the subject will be required first I'm sure.
 
Condos are good if you can get in on the ground floor. Like get yourself and a bunch of your family members on the waiting list and accumulate like 6-8 of them. Once the building is open you're almost guaranteed a good appreciation, and you have the option to rent the units out and accumulate more wealth or just take your profit and sell.
 
BonerBoy said:
Condos are good if you can get in on the ground floor. Like get yourself and a bunch of your family members on the waiting list and accumulate like 6-8 of them. Once the building is open you're almost guaranteed a good appreciation, and you have the option to rent the units out and accumulate more wealth or just take your profit and sell.
no bonerboy. no.
 
Are multi family's a good investment? This one girl in our office owns 3 so I got curious as to the risks and benefits.

I went in this afternoon and got 3 floor calls. One wants to buy a really banged up house tomorrow in cash. The other wants a condo within the month and her sister wants a house. The third is a guy who's looking for a house for his parents and he's wants one with his wife in the same town.

Hope these all come through but I've heard some horror stories.
 
do not get discouraged when almost every lead goes to shit,or prior to closing your buyer fucks there credit and the bank requires more down that they dont have...etc.....do everything by the book...no matter how worthless it may be...just keep at it...real estate suxs...pays great if you bust your ass....but it will make you a very bitter person..notice the increase in time you say "this is fuckin bullshit" a day...lololol..good luck!
 
Multis are a GREAT investment. With a single family if a tenant moves out you have 100% vacancy; with a 4-plex if a tenant moves out you have 25% vacancy.

I'm a mortgage broker and investor and I make money in any market because I work exclusively with investors and buy according to a formula. In booming times I don't buy a lot but I buy right and in times like these I make 6-7 offers a week.

As a broker (mortgage or RE) you can produce monthly income by working with a small group of serious investors. You get them by bringing them undervalued props that are usually REO's or pocket listings and by making sure they have financing lined up.

My buy formula is:

Assessed value - repairs needed * .75 = my MAX offer
I use 100% financing, roll in closing costs, make the epairs, rent out the units and then do a cash out refi against current value to 80% to recoup my $$.

Last prop I bought I closed on a duplex two weeks ago.

Bought for $132K
Assessed at $196K
Repairs = $7000
Each side ALREADY leased for a Dec 1 move in at $700 per side. When the smoke clears I'll pull out $20K in cash, have $44K in equity and cash flow $300/month.

Don't listen to the geeks that say it can't be done or how hard it is....whiners. Just do it. It's a hell of a lot harder to get to 15% BF than it is to make a living in real estate.
 
GatsbyGirl said:
Multis are a GREAT investment. With a single family if a tenant moves out you have 100% vacancy; with a 4-plex if a tenant moves out you have 25% vacancy.

I'm a mortgage broker and investor and I make money in any market because I work exclusively with investors and buy according to a formula. In booming times I don't buy a lot but I buy right and in times like these I make 6-7 offers a week.

As a broker (mortgage or RE) you can produce monthly income by working with a small group of serious investors. You get them by bringing them undervalued props that are usually REO's or pocket listings and by making sure they have financing lined up.

My buy formula is:

Assessed value - repairs needed * .75 = my MAX offer
I use 100% financing, roll in closing costs, make the epairs, rent out the units and then do a cash out refi against current value to 80% to recoup my $$.

Last prop I bought I closed on a duplex two weeks ago.

Bought for $132K
Assessed at $196K
Repairs = $7000
Each side ALREADY leased for a Dec 1 move in at $700 per side. When the smoke clears I'll pull out $20K in cash, have $44K in equity and cash flow $300/month.

Don't listen to the geeks that say it can't be done or how hard it is....whiners. Just do it. It's a hell of a lot harder to get to 15% BF than it is to make a living in real estate.

Lol.. i love your style.. You're right in a lot of ways though.. All everyone needs to worry about is that monthly cash flow.. When buying or suggesting to buy real estate the only thing that I consider is cash flow.. that's really all that matters... It's all a business.. everything youd o is a business.. cash in minus cash out each month equals what you made. The great thing is is that it's all tax free if youdo it all right. you'd be amazed how quickly you can get rich when you don't have to pay taxes.. :) :)
 
I totally agree. The only investors that I have seen go broke are the ones that ignore negative cash flow and rely on capital appreciation. Um...hello...there is NO appreciation right now. Cash flow is king.
 
GatsbyGirl said:
I totally agree. The only investors that I have seen go broke are the ones that ignore negative cash flow and rely on capital appreciation. Um...hello...there is NO appreciation right now. Cash flow is king.
Question: what are banks allowing you to go up to as far as total debt you hold personally? Even at positive cash flow, I know they don't just let you take out an unlimited amount of loans.
 
BonerBoy said:
I bet she does this as a business entity, not as herself. (Just a guess tho)
I know, but at the end of the rainbow there still has to be assets & income backing the debt to income ratio. Good credit will only get you so far. Using a corp. is more for legal liability purposes I think.
 
bran987 said:
I know, but at the end of the rainbow there still has to be assets & income backing the debt to income ratio. Good credit will only get you so far. Using a corp. is more for legal liability purposes I think.

Of course the assets are going to still be there and a low DTI ratio for a person to acquire more property and essentially build more debt.. The monthly income will always rise higher than the monthly debt if you're a smart investor. You will obviously utilize the Option Arms and make the minimum payment. The key is, of course, to make good use of the money you opted not to pay towards your principle or the negative amoritization..

Residential real estate credit is king.. Commercial is a whole new ball game brotha, they don't give a shit about your credit really..

T-Matt
 
T-Matt said:
Of course the assets are going to still be there and a low DTI ratio for a person to acquire more property and essentially build more debt.. The monthly income will always rise higher than the monthly debt if you're a smart investor. You will obviously utilize the Option Arms and make the minimum payment. The key is, of course, to make good use of the money you opted not to pay towards your principle or the negative amoritization..

Residential real estate credit is king.. Commercial is a whole new ball game brotha, they don't give a shit about your credit really..

T-Matt
No I know I'm in commercial dude... except my company does $300 million deals so we have to have huge institutions partnering with us to guarantee those loans...

Walk me through say 3 purchases of 2-4 unit properties, what loans you would use, and how you'd structure the transactions. let's actually learn something instead of just saying "oh it's great you should do it"!
 
bran987 said:
No I know I'm in commercial dude... except my company does $300 million deals so we have to have huge institutions partnering with us to guarantee those loans...

Walk me through say 3 purchases of 2-4 unit properties, what loans you would use, and how you'd structure the transactions. let's actually learn something instead of just saying "oh it's great you should do it"!

With prime at 8 1/4 I'd definitely take advantage of Option Arms currently. The 12 Month treasure average at full index right now (full margin too, i'm doing my own loans so I'm getting the immediate commission so I can dump the money in a 7-pay VUL and create immediate tax free income :)) is in the mid 7s. Obviously depending upon program guidelines, generally the MTA start rate is 1%. The great thing about the Option Arms is that your payment can only go up or down 7.5%/year. Not the interest rate now, the minimum payment, I want to clarify that.

For example. If your payment is $1000/month and the MTA index goes up forcing the lender to increase your minimum payment to the maximum of 7.5% that means that your payment for the next year will be $1075. Yes, it is a fact that you have some negative amoritization going on, however, if you are a savvy investor you will know that you can write off your interest on your taxes and you will of course, be making a substantial ROR with the money you opted to not pay towards your principle.

See, just look at everything like a business. It's really a mindset more than it is anything. Think of it like a restaurant. You take a loss on wings on Saturdays so you can attract more people to buy your highest profit margin goods like beer and liquor. Obviously, there is a risk that people may only show up and buy wings and drink water so you should put in a disclaimer that the price is only valid with the purchase of a drink. You might also consider putting overly attractive women in there to boost alcohol sales. AFter all, how hard is it to say "No" to a 5'1" 115lb brunette with a round ass, big fake boobs, and pigtails asking you if you want another round. I find it extremely difficult to this day.

I really think that if you can truly understand that you will become successful. Rich Dad Poor Dad by Kyosaki was an awesome book. It really shows you the different mindsets of an average-poor person to a successful businessman. Knowledge is power, yes, however applied knowledge is success.

Back to the loan.. Well, I would state as much information as the lender would let me. Southstar Funding will do an 80/20 combo 100% financing 12MAT/HELOC. If you'll loan me 100% LTV I'll take it all day b/c that just frees up cash. The key is to pay off the HELOC before you purchase another property b/c it drastically reduces your DTI.

Realistically the key is to do everything stated with letters from a CPA. Basically if you have good credit lenders look at you like "hmm, ok, these numbers look a little exaggerated but he has great credit so he is honest. Let's do it"

As long as you know how to set up a stated deal and give yourself plenty of leeway with DTI and not exaggerate numbers too much you can close a deal. Take advantage of the Option Arms and get together with an ESTATE PLANNER not a Financial Consultant from a bank whose primary income comes from deposits or a Financial Planner from T Rowe Price who is going to charge you a grand to sit down and talk then give you a 4 inch thick folder with hundreds of pie charts and technical terms and then move your money 4 times a month so he gets paid. Screw that.. That's why I'm so passionate about what I do, that's not how our company does business.. That's why we don't need a series 7 license.

I'm telling you guys if you don't know what you want to do I would consider doing estate planning. Within the next 5-10years $45trillion is going to exchange hands from the baby boomer's parents to the babyboomers. Everytime money moves someone has to get paid, why not let it be you? Besides money under management pays a RESIDUAL income. Not only that, our economy is going to go through a real shift with all this money (power)change hands. How we educate consumers to spend their money is crucial in the health of our economy. The economy is drive by how money is spent, not how it is saved. If no one trust the economy and we all just stash our money underneath our mattresses or be stupid and give it to a bank so the bank can get rich off our hard earned money then our middle class is in big trouble. Money works. Why let money work for the bank? Why not let it work for you?

Homework for whoever reads this. Search up the Rule of 72. It explains how compound interest works. Go to the bank and put in $10,000 go get your 4% return on a cd. The bank is AT LEAST going to get 12% ror from that money. So, it's going to take you 18 years to double your money and it's going to take the bank 6 years. So in 36 years times the bank gladly hands you your $40,000 and walks away with $600,000....

How can you expect a ship to come in with gold for you if you never even send one out??

T-Matt
 
T-Matt, are you an estate planner/attorney or a mortgage broker? by the way you're a little off on your spread that banks earn on savings deposits (it's not that big) but that's ok... everyone has to make a profit to be in business...

I'm just saying... say you earn $100K/year and have perfect credit... that's only enough to take on what... $700K in debt MAX? so if you're buying duplexes/quads at $200K/pop and cash flowing $500/month from each... wouldn't you hit a ceiling pretty quick? i.e. once you've bought 3 properties and you're cash flowing $1,500/month where do you go from there?

I assume you have to put together an investment package and go out to get investors at that point. That's what I would do at least. Let me know. I'm about to finish my MBA in May but I seriously considered going to law school and becoming an estate planner... investing and retirement planning is like my passion, it's like sex but .. wait I'll just leave it at that.
 
bran987 said:
T-Matt, are you an estate planner/attorney or a mortgage broker? by the way you're a little off on your spread that banks earn on savings deposits (it's not that big) but that's ok... everyone has to make a profit to be in business...

I'm just saying... say you earn $100K/year and have perfect credit... that's only enough to take on what... $700K in debt MAX? so if you're buying duplexes/quads at $200K/pop and cash flowing $500/month from each... wouldn't you hit a ceiling pretty quick? i.e. once you've bought 3 properties and you're cash flowing $1,500/month where do you go from there?

I assume you have to put together an investment package and go out to get investors at that point. That's what I would do at least. Let me know. I'm about to finish my MBA in May but I seriously considered going to law school and becoming an estate planner... investing and retirement planning is like my passion, it's like sex but .. wait I'll just leave it at that.

Am I really off with the bank spread? The day after you put that $10,000 into the cd they send you letters saying you are "preapproved" for a car loan, mortgage, credit card, student loan, home equity line of credit, you name it.. And it's VERY save to say that you're going to bit on a couple of those.. Now do you see how the bank is making 12%.. And wouldn't you think that 12% is even modest? I think so too. :)

Again, you're complicating things buddy. Keep it simple. Look at the monthly debt, not the yearly debt. Once you can change your mindset there you will understand everything so much more clearly. :) Hit me up on AIM or Yahoo msnger if you like.

I am an estate planner. I work very close with attorneys to set up trusts, and investors to put together a individualized financial blueprint. The great thing about our company is that we service you in the 3 major powerhouses in the financial industry, mortgages, insurance, and investments. We build a financial blueprint, much like is done for housing. Would you live in a house without a blue print? I know i wouldn't. Why live in a financial foundation without a blueprint? You do, hell everyone does. That's where I company comes in. I think our company would be a great opportunity for you. We are franchising much like Starbucks and McDonalds. See, most of America looks at Starbucks and thinks coffee, I think domination, franchising. Howard Schultz is amazing man. He has balls.. He has Starbucks in China. he brough coffee to a tea drinking nation. He's been there for about 2 years and already has over a thousand franchises. That is some domination for you. Most look at McDonald's as burgers, I see the franchising. Franchising is the product.

Our company sees the same vision. We're not financial services, we are domination. Our company aspires to have 1,000,000 franchises by the year 2010. The question is how many do you want to own? The real question is do you have it in you to be a leader? The world is full of people who are scared of leading who only want to follow. Our company is in dire need of true leaders. You have what it takes. hit me up..

T-Matt
T-Matt
 
bran987 said:
T-Matt, are you an estate planner/attorney or a mortgage broker? by the way you're a little off on your spread that banks earn on savings deposits (it's not that big) but that's ok... everyone has to make a profit to be in business...

I'm just saying... say you earn $100K/year and have perfect credit... that's only enough to take on what... $700K in debt MAX? so if you're buying duplexes/quads at $200K/pop and cash flowing $500/month from each... wouldn't you hit a ceiling pretty quick? i.e. once you've bought 3 properties and you're cash flowing $1,500/month where do you go from there?

I assume you have to put together an investment package and go out to get investors at that point. That's what I would do at least. Let me know. I'm about to finish my MBA in May but I seriously considered going to law school and becoming an estate planner... investing and retirement planning is like my passion, it's like sex but .. wait I'll just leave it at that.

You also have to keep in mind that Real Estate is only part of your income. You must also be making savvy investments in various other operations either from your career or mutual funds or life insurance. T-Matty likes life insurance the best. :) Of course, if you're a financial consultant/estate planner, you have residual income from your all the policies you've written and money under management. That right there gives you a nice buffer for your DTI.. HOpefully that clears things up a bit for ya too bro.

T-MAtt
 
Well, Starbuck's doesn't franchise... they only have company owned stores... McDonald's is of course the most famous Franchisor..

Yes you're off on the bank spreads, but that doesn't really matter. Yes they do profit, they take in deposits at one interest rate and loan it out at a marginally higher rate. That's how banks exist.

You're definitely a salesman lol, you can feel it even in your posts ;) I'd imagine you're pretty good in person.

How is looking at things annually vs. monthly complicating things? Isn't it just a matter of multiplying or dividing by 12? I mean I've taken dozens of finance and accounting classes... we always look at things either quarterly or annually... I understand you can look at something monthly... weekly... you can even compound interest daily (or continuously!) but the time interval you're analyzing is independent of your DTI... that's a constant.

I'll hit you up on AIM to talk more. Hell, can't hurt.
 
bran987 said:
Well, Starbuck's doesn't franchise... they only have company owned stores... McDonald's is of course the most famous Franchisor..

Yes you're off on the bank spreads, but that doesn't really matter. Yes they do profit, they take in deposits at one interest rate and loan it out at a marginally higher rate. That's how banks exist.

You're definitely a salesman lol, you can feel it even in your posts ;) I'd imagine you're pretty good in person.

How is looking at things annually vs. monthly complicating things? Isn't it just a matter of multiplying or dividing by 12? I mean I've taken dozens of finance and accounting classes... we always look at things either quarterly or annually... I understand you can look at something monthly... weekly... you can even compound interest daily (or continuously!) but the time interval you're analyzing is independent of your DTI... that's a constant.

I'll hit you up on AIM to talk more. Hell, can't hurt.

You have the mind of a damn engineer! LOL.. you're so damn stubborn.. haha.. I can assure you that I am not off with the bank making 12% return off YOUR money.. That is a modest estimate, at best. lol..

Why look monthly?? Welllllllllllllll.. aren't most installment loans and bills paid on a monthly basis? ah haaaaaaaa.. I see.. haha, bro, why multiply by 12 when you don't have to? Why look quarterly just b/c companies do quarterly reports.. Well, you're not a big company yet, you don't have that luxury, you need to look monthly, b/c essentially your expenses are based on a monthly time frame. You get down to the dirt and take away all your expenses and whatever you have left at the end of the month is your surplus. First, you must have proper protection, proper insurance. yeah, you'll buy car insurance for your car b/c you have to have it to get your tags, and yeah you'll buy homeowners insurance because you HAVE to have it, and hell you'll even buy a damn warranty on a friggin tv but you won't insure YOUR LIFE?!?!? Where's the logic? HOW COULD THIS BE? THis literally kills me, it puts me in tears man...

Anyhow, after you have a surplus (and properly insured based on 10 times your annual income) you then maximize your tax benefits, IE, dump more money in life insurance. After you maximize your tax benefits you sustain your emergency funds (which should be 3 times your monthly expenses) THEN you worry about investing. haha, people try to invest these days WITHOUT insurance, WITHOUT emergency funds, and WITHOUT taking in consideration tax benefits.

Look, the gov't looks at life insurance like this. Ok, this person is responsible enough to buy life insurance so that means I won't have to support his ass when he gets old. I"ll give him a tax break on any money he spends towards life insurance. Welllllllll, if you're smart you'll open up the maximum 4 policies per person per company. The fact is is that you can own 4 policies per SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER per company.. hehe.. that's right, I can buy a life insurance policy on you as long as i have your social and you sign the agreement. Of course if it's under $99k in coverage you won't even have to take a health exam with the main company I use since you are so young. :) If the gov't gives you an inch you take a damn mile damnit. THAT is how you build an estate.

And if you're worried about what that money is doing in your life insurance policy well we have a couple options. 1st, our flagship product called an Equity Index Universal Life (EIUL for short). An EIUL is a universial life insurance policy and it guarantees your principle plus 1% in writing. The only down fall is that you are capped at 12.5% ror. The EIUL is based on the S&P 500. The S&P 500 has averaged 12% over the life of the index. The S&P 500 isn't going down anytime soon and if it does, you're still guaranteed 1%.. :)

or

Our Variable Universal Life policy is awesome. There is no guarantee in writing for your principle but the subaccount for our VUL is the Clarion REITS Real Estate Mutual Fund. Which is secured by trusts. I just looked at my statement the other day, I have been averaging 40% ror over the past 7 months, not bad for tax free money.

How does it work out being tax free? here's how..

You overfund your policy. For example, my cost of insurance right now is only $22.50 on one of my policies. My target premium is $140/month. The $22.50 goes directly to the insurance company the remaining money is then put in a subaccount. The subaccount undergoes beautiful compound interest and the money grows nicely. Yes, you will pay a penalty if you want to access the money within the first few years. However, later down the road after the first 7 years, you may 'borrow' money from your policy. Legally this 'borrowing' is actually a loan. Here is how the loan works. You contact the insurance company and let them know that you need to 'borrow' some money. The insurance company then takes whatever amount of money you need out the cash value in your subaccount and places it in another account. They 'lend' you the specific amount you requested. They then charge your subaccount 1% interest for the loan but then then credit the other sub account that same 1% thus making it an even transaction. This makes it a legal loan according to the IRS. Brilliant isn't it?

Oh, and by the way Starbucks is a franchise. They don't franchise out to Uncle joe and Aunt Susie, but they are franchised out to different trusts. They are owned by different entities :)

T-Matt
 
Ok, guys this is good stuff. To answer your question about residential FNMA will let you finance up to 20 props but most conventional lenders will cap your loans at a total of 4 or up to $1M. They don't want to be holding the entire bag when your little empire crashes.

Also, don't worry about DTI. You can use the rental income (at 75% of gross to qualify) at refi and the rents on the market rent analysis at acquisiton as income.

My personal strategy - everyone is diferent - is to buy the multis in my own name. I use 100% financing but not an option ARM at acquisition because even Southstar won't go to 100% for investment props. I use one loan with a blended rate with no MI or prepay penalty. I am stated income/verified assets because I am self employed and would rather pay less taxes than show enough income to qualify for full doc. The blended rate right now is anywhere from 8.75 - 9.5% depending on who you use.

I buy bank owned props (REOs) so they always need some work. My guys get the work done in usually less than 30 days and we rent out the units. Then I refinance into an Option ARM up to 75-80% of the new (current) value taking some cash out to replenish the fix up costs that I funded out of pocket.

Once they are in this financing I quit claim the prop into my LLC and hold for at least 12 months. I make the monthly payments from my LLC account and SAVE COPIES OF THE CHECKS. THEN I refinance again in the name of my LLC and the loans come off my personal credit and go on my biz credit.
 
Also I don't agree with the advise of making the min payment on the option ARM. Only allow your loan to negatively amortize in an emergency. Protect your equity (and net worth) and make the interest only payment.
 
GatsbyGirl said:
Also I don't agree with the advise of making the min payment on the option ARM. Only allow your loan to negatively amortize in an emergency. Protect your equity (and net worth) and make the interest only payment.

Awesome info!! Thanks!

I see it like this. As long as my ROR is greater than the compound interest on my negative amoritizing loan, I am happy. I will gladly pay down the deferred interest right before the loan is set to recast.. The more money I can borrow, the more money I can make.. :)

T-Matt
 
GatsbyGirl said:
Ok, guys this is good stuff. To answer your question about residential FNMA will let you finance up to 20 props but most conventional lenders will cap your loans at a total of 4 or up to $1M. They don't want to be holding the entire bag when your little empire crashes.

Also, don't worry about DTI. You can use the rental income (at 75% of gross to qualify) at refi and the rents on the market rent analysis at acquisiton as income.

My personal strategy - everyone is diferent - is to buy the multis in my own name. I use 100% financing but not an option ARM at acquisition because even Southstar won't go to 100% for investment props. I use one loan with a blended rate with no MI or prepay penalty. I am stated income/verified assets because I am self employed and would rather pay less taxes than show enough income to qualify for full doc. The blended rate right now is anywhere from 8.75 - 9.5% depending on who you use.

I buy bank owned props (REOs) so they always need some work. My guys get the work done in usually less than 30 days and we rent out the units. Then I refinance into an Option ARM up to 75-80% of the new (current) value taking some cash out to replenish the fix up costs that I funded out of pocket.

Once they are in this financing I quit claim the prop into my LLC and hold for at least 12 months. I make the monthly payments from my LLC account and SAVE COPIES OF THE CHECKS. THEN I refinance again in the name of my LLC and the loans come off my personal credit and go on my biz credit.

You are absolutely right, Southstar will not do 100% NOO, I just recomfirmed that with my AE.. Thanks for that!

The only issue with a blended loan is the MI and the MI can be EXTREMELY costly. I'm definitely interested in finding a few lenders who offer 100% financing on one loan with NO MI.. I also agree w/ the SIVA b/c I hate Uncle Sam just as much as you do.

There is some genius to this. I like the quit claim deed and how you season the title for 12 months and refi to the LLC, you can own a lot more properties with that method and if all your assets are tied up in your LLC and a gold digging broad can't touch em! :)

Seriously guys, this is solid information.

T-Matt
 
Couple of things - if you're neg am then make sure you have an option arm that will recast because not all of them do. And on the 100% one loan I use them only if they have no MI or PPP. Lately I am using GN Mortgage and Homecomings.

I kind of like being called a genius... lol
 
GatsbyGirl said:
Couple of things - if you're neg am then make sure you have an option arm that will recast because not all of them do. And on the 100% one loan I use them only if they have no MI or PPP. Lately I am using GN Mortgage and Homecomings.

I kind of like being called a genius... lol

Homecomings.. noted..

For my Option Arms I mainly use either SouthStar, AMNET, or Countrywide.. Always MTA, never LIBOR.. I will occasionally use the COSI with World Savings.. World Savings sucks tho... well, they do when you look at the HUD statement and see the yield spread.. :(

Our main objective is for our client to have the lowest payment possible. We try to do all Option Arms. Of course when we run into clients with poor credit, I do offer credit repair free of charge.. If they have lates on their mortgage we refinance to clean up their mortgage history and give them a band aid loan and then come around and refi Option Arm after 24 months of on time payments.

I'm getting more and more familiar with Commercial loans. I know enough now to know that they are a pain in the ass.. lol.. From what I see 2 out of 10 close.. I work very close with the man responsible for bringing the Lightning to Tampa Bay.. He did the Commercial Loan for them.. A very nice commission, I must add..

You definitely seem to have a grasp on the investor's side of Residential.. If you're ever in the Tampa/St. Pete area I'd love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with you. (I'm more of a sugarfree Red Bull fan tho)

T-Matt
 
Ahhh...commercial is a TOTALLY different ball game. Hard as hell but so worth it. There are tricks and strategies in commercial that can get around a lot of the low LTV rules but for the most part you better have a smoking deal and a building that is producing income.

I get to FL a few times a year and fly into Tampa on my way to Ocala so I may take you up on that. Lemon Zinger herbal tea for me!
 
GatsbyGirl said:
Ahhh...commercial is a TOTALLY different ball game. Hard as hell but so worth it. There are tricks and strategies in commercial that can get around a lot of the low LTV rules but for the most part you better have a smoking deal and a building that is producing income.

I get to FL a few times a year and fly into Tampa on my way to Ocala so I may take you up on that. Lemon Zinger herbal tea for me!

It's funny isn't it? How you can't get a Commercial Loan without CASHFLOW, yet the first thing people think when they buy an investment home in Residential is appreciation... If people could just change their mindsets and treat their own life like a business they would be a lot more successful.. Seriously, the best gift you can buy your children for Christmas this year is Robert Kyosaki's game CASHFLOW.. Thank me later.. :)

Great! I'll be looking forward to it.. haha, I thought you were a mocha grande latte frappee luppee super duper ultra deluxe cappuccino kinda gal.. Ocala? What the heck are you doing in Ocala? lol... Do you own a farm?

T-Matt
 
I agree - the cash flow game is a good one. No kids, but I am such a geek that I actually do a 3 day personal finance seminar for my nieces and nephews. I supervise their investments and make sure they all buy houses beofore they turn 25.

Ha ha - my elderly uncle (honorary dad) lives in Ocala in an "active adult community" and the calorie laden coffee days are long gone on my quest for 15% BF.
 
GatsbyGirl said:
I buy bank owned props (REOs) so they always need some work. My guys get the work done in usually less than 30 days and we rent out the units. Then I refinance into an Option ARM up to 75-80% of the new (current) value taking some cash out to replenish the fix up costs that I funded out of pocket.



Do you have a Realtor find you the REOs?
D
 
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