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protein making me gain fat
- Thread starter flottmana
- Start date
automaticj5
New member
I take muscle milk and I am beginning to think the same thing..
*The_West*
New member
if you are bulking, then to add a bit of bf should be expected. its not just the whey, its total calories that are causing increase in bf.flottmana said:
on another note, too much protein can cause you to gain fat, just as carbs can. it is not the macro nutrients themselves that cause you to gain weight, simply consuming more calories than you use. which as i said, you should be doing if you are bulking.
*The_West*
New member
negative. when cutting keep protein HIGH to help retain muscle mass.flottmana said:
highlander555
New member
the protein doesn't add fat. An excess of calories over what you expend is what adds fat. Proteins and carbs both have 4 calories, fats have 9. If you've added more protein to your diet and are now gainging more weight than you want, it's not the protein's fault per se, but the fact that you're taking in more calories than you're expending.
highlander555
New member
I'm not saying that exactly.
Try doing some research to figure out how much protein you need in a given day, then as long as you're getting that you can decide if you want to cut back on fats or carbs.
Also, cutting back on calories doesn't always mean eating less.
Try doing some research to figure out how much protein you need in a given day, then as long as you're getting that you can decide if you want to cut back on fats or carbs.
Also, cutting back on calories doesn't always mean eating less.
gjohnson5
New member
highlander555 said:
Agree totally
The only thing I can think of is the insulin factor
Protein can spike insulin without carbohydrates. Fat would then be shuttled to fat cells through GLUT4. This would be independent of your calories through the day. This is the same principal as an insulin injection. Avoid fats in that time
Take fats with salad. Avoid fats during high protein feeding
It may be a good idea to drop muscle milk entirely and go with something like VPX Zero Carb or other high protein drink which contains no fat
titeNtonedN08
New member
gjohnson5 said:
ok..so ur saying u can have high protein+carbs, but not high protein+fat b/c of an insulin spike that will make ur body hold on to the fat?
enigma4dub
Active member
calories in vs. calories out or thermodynamics, is the law of the land. figure out the calories you are consuming and then see what you are expending. then you can see the difference.
also what about the rest of your food choices? are you eating clean?
dont cut protein when you do decide to cut, cut calories, restrict diet to whole grains essential fats and clean white meat and fish with plenty of water and veggies.
also what about the rest of your food choices? are you eating clean?
dont cut protein when you do decide to cut, cut calories, restrict diet to whole grains essential fats and clean white meat and fish with plenty of water and veggies.
gjohnson5
New member
Varga said:
I think the problem is mostly whey. Due to the fact that whey is very fast absorbing and not to mention many whey proteins are not filtered fully. Some whey proteins have sugars by accident. Many have sugars some intentionally added as if you asked for an insulin spike :-(
But I'll look for the study which someone on another board PM'd to me. Basically users had a protein drink and some BCAA mixed and when the users blood sugar was tested, insulin and blood sugar were majorly elevated
gjohnson5
New member
gjohnson5 said:
Milk protein, in particular the whey fraction, has been shown to display insulinotrophic properties in healthy persons and persons with type 2 diabetes. In parallel to the hyperinsulinemia, a pronounced postprandial rise of certain amino acids and of glucose-dependent insulinotrophic polypeptide (GIP) was observed in plasma.
The objective of the study was to determine to what extent the insulinotrophic properties of whey could be simulated by specific amino acid mixtures.
Twelve healthy volunteers were served drinks consisting of pure glucose (reference drink) or glucose supplemented with free amino acids or whey proteins (test drinks).
A test drink with the branched-chain amino acids isoleucine, leucine, and valine resulted in significantly higher insulin responses than did the glucose reference. A drink containing glucose and leucine, isoleucine, valine, lysine, and threonine mimicked the glycemic and insulinemic responses seen after whey ingestion. With consumption of this drink, the glucose area under the curve (AUC) was 44% smaller (P < 0.05) and the insulin AUC was 31% larger (NS) than with consumption of the reference drink. With consumption of the whey drink, the AUCs were 56% smaller (glucose; P < 0.05) and 60% larger (insulin; P < 0.05), respectively, than with the reference drink. The whey drink was accompanied by an 80% greater GIP response (P < 0.05), whereas the drinks containing free amino acids did not significantly affect GIP secretion.
A mixture of leucine, isoleucine, valine, lysine, and threonine resulted in glycemic and insulinemic responses closely mimicking those seen after whey ingestion in the absence of an additional effect of GIP and glucagon-like peptide 1.
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 85, No. 4, 996-1004, April 2007. Metabolic effects of amino acid mixtures and whey protein in healthy subjects: studies using glucose-equivalent drinks.
So I guess the point of this is that when you have a product like Optimum Nutrition 100% whey which is not a completely filtered whey protein which has added BCAA, you should expect a significant insulin response even without extra carbs added. Not to mention , I don't believe all the lactose in that product is filtered either which makes the problem worse
gjohnson5 said:
I always suspected whey of having sugar in it since milk has sugar as well. Then what you said makes sense.
THat's one reason I switched to egg protein as of late and I have seen some changes in my body composition since I take these shakes at night! Next step is to buy the plain protein and use splenda to sweeten it up if I'm using it at night
Good observation bro
gjohnson5
New member
Varga said:
Yes , go with egg or casein and add whey in small amounts. That way , you can get the fast absorbing protein to slightly elevate blood sugar and insulin. Whey will act as a front loader... When Those blood sugar and most importantly insulin are elevated then the egg and casein will be GLUT4 transported to muscles. With this setup, a whole bunch of sugar is still not needed. You can add BCAA's to your leisure since I think the amino acid profile of egg leaves alot to be desired in terms of BCAA content. Anyway alot of sugar in this configuration is not needed and I dunno why they tell people 4:1 sugar / protein in whey drinks. Based on the study , I don't find that to be good advice no matter how healthy one may be.
highlander555
New member
It was my belief that protein doesn't spike insulin levels, but carbs do? I thought that was general, accepted knowledge.
highlander555
New member
I can imagine. Look, don't overthink it. Though there is creedance to certain foods that do spike insilin levels (otherwise known as blood sugar, or glucose), I wouldn't worry about that if I were you.
At your level of knowledge (or at least what I presume it to be based on your questions) It doesn't really matter too much.
Just know that the only way to gain weight is if you're taking in more calories than you're expending, and to lose, vise verse.
Foods that cause insilin levels to spike aren't too important to you at this point, so don't sweat it (though in the long run you probably will want to learn about it).
At your level of knowledge (or at least what I presume it to be based on your questions) It doesn't really matter too much.
Just know that the only way to gain weight is if you're taking in more calories than you're expending, and to lose, vise verse.
Foods that cause insilin levels to spike aren't too important to you at this point, so don't sweat it (though in the long run you probably will want to learn about it).
gjohnson5
New member
highlander555 said:
I guess one of the points of that study was to demonstrate that insulin can be spiked independent of blood sugar. Blood sugar can be down and insulin can be up. If this is the case , it can be said that proteins may have some properties of sugar. So the easy solution is to eat the fats separate from the high protein meals or high sugar meals. Eat the fats separate or with slow digesting carbs such as salads. I guess the term is nutrient partitioning
highlander555
New member
Hmmm, okay.
I agree that any sort of calorie, even a protein, can spike insulin levels. BUT, carbohydrates are genereally processed by the body much faster and much more quickly turned to glucose. So, I think they're the guys you have to worry about.
To experienced and knowledgeble lifters, this can mean something. To novices, I think it may be too confusing to focus on.
I agree that any sort of calorie, even a protein, can spike insulin levels. BUT, carbohydrates are genereally processed by the body much faster and much more quickly turned to glucose. So, I think they're the guys you have to worry about.
To experienced and knowledgeble lifters, this can mean something. To novices, I think it may be too confusing to focus on.
