Protein before bed?

[Ulter]

It's not "bad". But it would be better to use a simple carb to force a higher insulin response and then use Glucorell to make the carbs clear so you can go to sleep without them.
When you're done working out your cells are the most responsive so your body doesn't produce much insulin if it doesn't get a "glucose wake up call". But once your insulin is through carrying then nutrients around and feedling the cells you want to it shut down. It won't if the glucose is still hanging around.

 

[Lifterforlife]

1. no one said anything about insulin being the end all diet. In fact NOTHING was said about insulin being used in the diet or as part of the diet or even what the diet was. What on earth are you talking about? Are you on the same thread?

Excuse me, but a direct line from your post..."When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning"...this was your direct argument against carbs at night. If you cannot keep up with your own posts, that is an interesting indication.

2. You absolutely presented another sideways argument to what you were saying. In post 11 you were arguing against carbs not being bad at night and then even though that was still the discussion you changed to a keto diet.

No, you are changing the argument. I posted that in direct response to your insulin post noted above. It is not a change of argument, and you have not addressed it as it totally counters your insulin argument.

3. You are the GNC crowd. You haven't presented any valid argument to your point, nor have you addressed the discussion after it was pointed out your argument was flawed. Basically you've removed yourself from the discussion by not addressing any aspect of it.

Me not addressing any aspect of it, what are you talking about? I made a post about if you are energy deficient, there is nothing wrong with carbs at night. You countered with the insulin argument. When I posed examples of why insulin is not the relevance of everything, YOU failed to address them at all...reason being, you cannot. You stated that and again, a direct quote..."Having the excess insulin "prevents fat cells from
releasing their contents to burn for energy, and causes cells to store additional fat". I responded directly to this then how the hell can additional fat be stored during a hypocaloric diet? Again, to which you did not respond, because again you cannot.

Lets see here, carbs bad, insulin, oh yeah, guess what??? I just happen to have a product to sell you for that! Hhhhmmmmm...keep the sales pitch bro.

 

[Ulter]

Excuse me, but a direct line from your post..."When you eat carbs at night you illicit an insulin response that will last long into the night and not only stop the fat burning"...this was your direct argument against carbs at night. If you cannot keep up with your own posts, that is an interesting indication.

I'm keeping up and reading my post but I don't see where it says insulin is part of the diet. You said, "insulin is not the be all end all of diet." Where does what I wrote say insulin is part of the diet? Insulin is a key hormone that needs to be limited at certain times to prevent fat storage. That's a fact. But that doesn't make insulin the "end all diet". That statement doesn't even make sense.

how the hell can additional fat be stored during a hypocaloric diet? Again, to which you did not respond, because again you cannot.

Fat is stored when fat burning stops. Insulin stops fat burning. Hypocaloric or not. At that point the body has to decide what to do with the glucose and since now you're sleeping and won't be using it, it goes to the fat cells.

When I posed examples of why insulin is not the relevance of everything, YOU failed to address them at all...reason being, you cannot.

Not only CAN I, but I already DID. TWICE!

If you honestly believe insulin is irrelevant to a dieting body builder then I have nothing else to say you. That says it all.

 

[Lifterforlife]

You know from my posting that I know how important insulin is. I never stated it was irrelevant in one of my posts. My post alluded to insulin is not the be all end all of dieting.

If you are creating a caloric deficit, you will lose fat. Studies are showing more and more the irrelevance of the GI. The GI was directly the result of insulin response as to controlling diet.

While insulin is indeed our most anabolic hormone, again, when it comes to dieting, caloric deficit is the bottom line. If insulin was indeed the key to losing weight, this surely disputes it....

General Clinical Research Center, Department of Medicine, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, USA.
1. [email protected]

Reducing the dietary glycemic load and the glycemic index was proposed as a novel approach to weight reduction. A parallel-design, randomized 12-wk controlled feeding trial with a 24-wk follow-up phase was conducted to test the hypothesis that a hypocaloric diet designed to reduce the glycemic load and the glycemic index would result in greater sustained weight loss than other hypocaloric diets. Obese subjects (n = 29) were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 diets providing 3138 kJ less than estimated energy needs: high glycemic index (HGI), low glycemic index (LGI), or high fat (HF). For the first 12 wk, all food was provided to subjects (feeding phase). Subjects (n = 22) were instructed to follow the assigned diet for 24 additional weeks (free-living phase). Total body weight was obtained and body composition was assessed by skinfold measurements. Insulin sensitivity was assessed by the homeostasis model (HOMA). At 12 wk, weight changes from baseline were significant in all groups but not different among groups (-9.3 +/- 1.3 kg for the HGI diet, -9.9 +/- 1.4 kg for the LGI diet, and -8.4 +/- 1.5 kg for the HF diet). All groups improved in insulin sensitivity at the end of the feeding phase of the study. During the free-living phase, all groups maintained their initial weight loss and their improved insulin sensitivity. Weight loss and improved insulin sensitivity scores were independent of diet composition. In summary, lowering the glycemic load and glycemic index of weight reduction diets does not provide any added benefit to energy restriction in promoting weight loss in obese subjects.

The first response to this I can hear now....but we are bodybuilders, not obese. Physiology does not change.

Now, if contest level bodyfats are at issue, there may be some change. But, I can use N=1 data, my last contest I "saved" calories for night. In other words, I did not want to go to bed hungry. I was of course hypocaloric, and energy deficient for the day. Some nights I would have yogurt and protein, other nights eggs and vegetables, and others meat and beans. I achieved 5% bodyfat and placed second in my class. This is an indisputable fact, I did it.

 

[Ulter]

insulin was indeed the key to losing weight

Who said this? Are you saying I said this? Are you saying that I said anything about calories in and calories used not being the key to dieting? Where?

My points were about carbs at night, remember way back when this started, and you're posting a study showing that cutting the amount of glucose in a diet doesn't affect energy restriction in promoting fat loss in obese people. That study has nothing to do with eating carbs before bed.
As it relates to this thread:
The timing of the carbs is what is important.
The clearing of those carbs is what is important.
Reducing insulin levels through the night is what is important.
Those are the points.
Not whether or not Atkins was right about dieting without carbs.

The discussion you want to have (about carb restricted dieting) should be on another thread now that you've changed it again. This discussion is about carbs/protein at night. Why don't you post a study to back up your claim that protein will illicit an insulin response as protein? That would be at least somewhat relevant.

Note:
Glucorell does not work by ONLY reducing insulin levels. It's a ppar agonist that helps promote fat loss through that receptor.

 

[JKurz1]

Glucorell is not the answer...the answer was explained...if you train at night, you eat carbs at night, plain and simple.....don't overanalyze!

 

[Ulter]

Glucorell only helps clear the carbs you eat at night, or any time, to keep the insulin from circulating an shutting down your fat loss. That's the long and short of it.

 

[JKurz1]

orrr....any r-ala product!

 

[Lifterforlife]

Best r-ala product around... http://www.aor.ca/products/r+sr.php

 

[*Bunny*]

Best r-ala product around... http://www.aor.ca/products/r+sr.php

Lifter, please be more specific why you feel this way.