Overwoking the back?

[busupshot83]

To my knowledge, the primary muscles of the back are the rhomboids (middle back), lats, and traps. I currently work each of theses muscles twice per week. Therefore, my back workout looks something like this:

Barbell bent-over rows
Dumbbell rows
pull ups
lat pulldowns
barbell shrugs
dumbbell shrugs

Is this overwoking my back, since many of the middle back and lat exercises hit similar muscles?

 

[ExtraMile]

Depends on sets, rests, rest days, diet, experience and whether your runnin any gear or not.

Just saying but all I do for back is
Deads 5x6
BB Row 5x8
Then on a differant workout day I do Underhand Chins 5x6-8

And back is my strongest and favourite bodypart and if you go on my profile you can see the sort of width I'v built since september. I find BB Rows are soley responsible for my middle back and lats, I alternate between a shoulder width grip and a close grip (like 6 inches apart). I think I have quite a good mind-muslce link with my back and using a cloer grip can really activate and squeeze the shit outta my lats but a wider grip lets me work my middle back muscles.

I dnot really count chins as back exercise cuz i get crazy pumps in my forearms and biceps from it...

 

[busupshot83]

Depends on sets, rests, rest days, diet, experience and whether your runnin any gear or not.

Just saying but all I do for back is
Deads 5x6
BB Row 5x8
Then on a differant workout day I do Underhand Chins 5x6-8

And back is my strongest and favourite bodypart and if you go on my profile you can see the sort of width I'v built since september. I find BB Rows are soley responsible for my middle back and lats, I alternate between a shoulder width grip and a close grip (like 6 inches apart). I think I have quite a good mind-muslce link with my back and using a cloer grip can really activate and squeeze the shit outta my lats but a wider grip lets me work my middle back muscles.

I dnot really count chins as back exercise cuz i get crazy pumps in my forearms and biceps from it...

Thanks for replying. I use 3 sets of 6-10 reps per exercise on my back.

 

[ExtraMile]

So your doing 18 sets for back, Im not an expert but I do 10 sets of direct back work (Deads, Rows) and 8 sets fo indirect back work (chins, pullovers) but I dont really feel my back in them. 18 sets might be a little much, you might have to wait for some more experienced bro's to reply to you but a back routine like this might be a bit better:
Deads:4-5 sets of 4-6 reps
BB/DB Rows: 4-5 sets of 8-10 reps
Wide Grip Pulldowns: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Shrugs: 3 sets of 10-12 reps

But it all depends on your goals and experience and stuff like that.

Just curious why you didnt include deads in your workout?

 

[busupshot83]

So your doing 18 sets for back, Im not an expert but I do 10 sets of direct back work (Deads, Rows) and 8 sets fo indirect back work (chins, pullovers) but I dont really feel my back in them. 18 sets might be a little much, you might have to wait for some more experienced bro's to reply to you but a back routine like this might be a bit better:
Deads:4-5 sets of 4-6 reps
BB/DB Rows: 4-5 sets of 8-10 reps
Wide Grip Pulldowns: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Shrugs: 3 sets of 10-12 reps

But it all depends on your goals and experience and stuff like that.

Just curious why you didnt include deads in your workout?

Sorry for not being clear... this is my entire workout, performing each exercise with 3 sets of 6-10 reps:

Monday - Chest / Biceps / Forearms
Bench press
Dumbbell flys
Barbell bicep curls
Concentration bicep curls
Dumbbell wrist curls
Dumbbell reverse wrist curls

Tuesday - Quads / Hams
Lunges
Squats
Straight-leg deadlifts
Leg curls

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Middle Back / Lats / Traps
Barbell bent-over rows
Dumbbell rows
Pull ups
Lat pulldowns
Barbell shrugs
Dumbbell shrugs

Friday - Abs / Hip Abductors / Calves
Leg raises
Side bends
Swiss-ball crunches
Hip Abductor machine (outward)
Hip Abductor machine (inward)
Calf raises
Calf presses

Saturday - Triceps / Deltoids / Lower back (deadlifts, etc.)
Close-grip bench press
Skull crushers
Dumbbell shoulder press
Wide-grip lateral raises
Deadlifts

Sunday - Off

Therefore, I do perform deadlifts, just not on my "back" day.

The only reason I asked the original question is because I feel like I am spending too much time at the gym. Currently, my workouts are approximately 1.5 hours, but I would like to decrease that to about 1 hour. However, I do not want to compromise any muscle groups in the process... working out all the muscles is of prime importance to me. Any ideas?

 

[ExtraMile]

Allright well if instead of having the DB&BB variety to all your exercises, like DB Shrugs and BB shrugs then you could just do one, and add another set, so you could do somthing like:

Barbell bent-over rows 5x8
Wide grip pull ups 4x10
dumbbell shrugs 4x10

The above is just 13 sets, rather than 18 which will probably take off 20mins from your workout depending on rest sets and shit like that.

What are your stats and goals?

If you wanted you could add a couple of sets of pullovers at the end to stretch our your lats seen as their gonna be worked in two exercises and will be sore.

This is just my idea though you will be best off gettin some of the older bro's to help you, im only 14.

 

[busupshot83]

Allright well if instead of having the DB&BB variety to all your exercises, like DB Shrugs and BB shrugs then you could just do one, and add another set, so you could do somthing like:

Barbell bent-over rows 5x8
Wide grip pull ups 4x10
dumbbell shrugs 4x10

The above is just 13 sets, rather than 18 which will probably take off 20mins from your workout depending on rest sets and shit like that.

What are your stats and goals?

If you wanted you could add a couple of sets of pullovers at the end to stretch our your lats seen as their gonna be worked in two exercises and will be sore.

This is just my idea though you will be best off gettin some of the older bro's to help you, im only 14.

I am 5'10" and 180 lbs., with a goal of 200 lbs.

Anyone else have other ideas/tips for condensing my workout?

What do you think of this...

Working out each muscle only once per week, and removing forearm, traps, and hip abductor isolated exercises:

Mondays & Thursdays
Chest / Middle Back / Lat / Biceps / Triceps / Deltoids
Bench press
Barbell bent-over rows
Pull ups
Barbell bicep curls
Dips
Dumbbell shoulder press
(6 exercises x 3 sets = 18 sets)

Tuesdays & Fridays
Quads / Hams / Lower Back / Lower Abs / Side Abs / Upper Abs
Squats
Straight-leg deadlifts
Deadlifts
Calves
Leg raises
Side bends
Swiss-ball crunches
(7 exercises x 3 sets = 21 sets)

Wednesdays, Saturdays, & Sundays
Off (I play hockey for 1-2 hours on Sundays)

What do you think?

 

[ExtraMile]

I think this might be a bit better..
Mondays & Thursdays
Shoulder Press
Deadlifts
Dips
BB Rows
Curls
Abs, not weighted

Tuesdays & Fridays
Squats
Leg Curls
Bench Press
Pullups
Calves
Weighted Abs
Thats pretty much what I do now and its been working for me great.

Heres what I do:
Workout A:
Squats 5x6
Wide Stance Stiff Legged to the Floor: 3x6-8
GHR: 1xfailure
Flat BB Bench 5x8
Underhand Chinups 5x6-8
Abs

Workout B:
DB Military 5x8
Deadlifts 5x6
Dips 5x8-10
BB Rows 5x8
DB Pullover (for stretch only) 3x12-20
I alternate them throughout the week. So week 1 would be A,B,A and week 2 would be B,A,B

With your routine you put above you had all your lower back work in 3 straight exercises in one day, you also pounded your hams before deads which will mean you could possible overtrain your hams and your deads will be with less weight, squats and deadlifts are crucial if you want to put on mass to your entire frame so having them at the beginning of your workouts will let you use maximum weight. You also had your shoulder presses after bench press and dips, meaning your delts and triceps will both be worn out, this will hold you back with the weight you can use, putting them before deadlifts will get your shoulders nice and warmed up for the deadlifts. You cuold also do what I do and take calves out and just do 3 sets on every rest day, I do them unweighted to avoid them aching too much the next day so I either do one legged calf raises on a step, 3x12 or normal calf raises on a step 3xfailure.

How long have u been lifting?

If some other bro's would come on here and tel me how good this advice Iv been giving is any good I would appreciate that, Iv just been using what Iv been told before but maybe this isnt for him?

 

[busupshot83]

I think this might be a bit better..
Mondays & Thursdays
Shoulder Press
Deadlifts
Dips
BB Rows
Curls
Abs, not weighted

Tuesdays & Fridays
Squats
Leg Curls
Bench Press
Pullups
Calves
Weighted Abs
Thats pretty much what I do now and its been working for me great.

Heres what I do:
Workout A:
Squats 5x6
Wide Stance Stiff Legged to the Floor: 3x6-8
GHR: 1xfailure
Flat BB Bench 5x8
Underhand Chinups 5x6-8
Abs

Workout B:
DB Military 5x8
Deadlifts 5x6
Dips 5x8-10
BB Rows 5x8
DB Pullover (for stretch only) 3x12-20
I alternate them throughout the week. So week 1 would be A,B,A and week 2 would be B,A,B

With your routine you put above you had all your lower back work in 3 straight exercises in one day, you also pounded your hams before deads which will mean you could possible overtrain your hams and your deads will be with less weight, squats and deadlifts are crucial if you want to put on mass to your entire frame so having them at the beginning of your workouts will let you use maximum weight. You also had your shoulder presses after bench press and dips, meaning your delts and triceps will both be worn out, this will hold you back with the weight you can use, putting them before deadlifts will get your shoulders nice and warmed up for the deadlifts. You cuold also do what I do and take calves out and just do 3 sets on every rest day, I do them unweighted to avoid them aching too much the next day so I either do one legged calf raises on a step, 3x12 or normal calf raises on a step 3xfailure.

How long have u been lifting?

If some other bro's would come on here and tel me how good this advice Iv been giving is any good I would appreciate that, Iv just been using what Iv been told before but maybe this isnt for him?

Thanks ExtraMile for your help. I began training at age 15, and stopped at 21 when university began. I'm now 25, and about to start back up again. Needless to say, I am really rusty, but I still have it in me. Thanks again.

To anyone else: I will appreciate any other tips... thanks.

 

[SaiBoT]

I am 5'10" and 180 lbs., with a goal of 200 lbs.

Anyone else have other ideas/tips for condensing my workout?

What do you think of this...

Working out each muscle only once per week, and removing forearm, traps, and hip abductor isolated exercises:

Mondays & Thursdays
Chest / Middle Back / Lat / Biceps / Triceps / Deltoids
Bench press
Barbell bent-over rows
Pull ups
Barbell bicep curls
Dips
Dumbbell shoulder press
(6 exercises x 3 sets = 18 sets)

Tuesdays & Fridays
Quads / Hams / Lower Back / Lower Abs / Side Abs / Upper Abs
Squats
Straight-leg deadlifts
Deadlifts
Calves
Leg raises
Side bends
Swiss-ball crunches
(7 exercises x 3 sets = 21 sets)

Wednesdays, Saturdays, & Sundays
Off (I play hockey for 1-2 hours on Sundays)

What do you think?

that's a good routine. And at least it will get you out of that high volume thing you don't really need

 

[ExtraMile]

Listen to Sai over me, I guess I was just paying attention to tiny details of your routine, you already had the basics so keep to what SaiBot said above.

 

[busupshot83]

that's a good routine. And at least it will get you out of that high volume thing you don't really need

Sai:

Thanks for your advice. What is your opinion on not working out my forearms, traps, and hip abductors directly? As long as I utilize primarily compound movements for the rest of my exercises, I should hit most, if not all, of those "left-out" muscles... correct?

 

[SaiBoT]

Sai:

Thanks for your advice. What is your opinion on not working out my forearms, traps, and hip abductors directly? As long as I utilize primarily compound movements for the rest of my exercises, I should hit most, if not all, of those "left-out" muscles... correct?

Squats, deads, rowing , benching all that stuff are big money exercises, focus on those and your whole body will grow, don't lose time with small exercises until you are over 200 pounds!

 

[SouthernLord]

Sai:

Thanks for your advice. What is your opinion on not working out my forearms, traps, and hip abductors directly? As long as I utilize primarily compound movements for the rest of my exercises, I should hit most, if not all, of those "left-out" muscles... correct?

Forget them. Don't use straps and your forearms will get hammered. Traps get nailed with rows and DLs. If you want to work your hips do wide stance squats. If you want to work your forearms get some heavy grippers and do pinch grips. At least do something functional that will carry over to your pulling exercises.

Drop the SLDLs. Deads alone will be more economical and save your lower back.

 

[Jocques Straap]

I'll chime in for CEO here. Your workout plan looks good. However I hope you are putting as much thought into your diet as you are your workout. You need to eat to gain, and eat lots!

I agree with dropping the SLDL.

 

[FunFun]

IMO it's virtually impossible to overtrain the upper back muscles because if you ever do too many exercises it's usually the small assistance muscles which end up overtrained instead such as the biceps and shoulders. Elbows could wind up getting hurt too before the back gets a chance of being overtrained.

 

[joe d]

To my knowledge, the primary muscles of the back are the rhomboids (middle back), lats, and traps. I currently work each of theses muscles twice per week. Therefore, my back workout looks something like this:

Barbell bent-over rows
Dumbbell rows
pull ups
lat pulldowns
barbell shrugs
dumbbell shrugs

Is this overwoking my back, since many of the middle back and lat exercises hit similar muscles?

only you can answer that question. do it for a wile. if your stregnth and size go up then its good. if not back off some. thats the only way you can tell. anything else is a guess.

 

[busupshot83]

I'll chime in for CEO here. Your workout plan looks good. However I hope you are putting as much thought into your diet as you are your workout. You need to eat to gain, and eat lots!

I agree with dropping the SLDL.

Yes sir, I sure am! Muscles are made in the kitchen, not in the gym, right? Thanks to everyone for all the replies.

 

[2evil]

Forget them. Don't use straps and your forearms will get hammered. Traps get nailed with rows and DLs. If you want to work your hips do wide stance squats. If you want to work your forearms get some heavy grippers and do pinch grips. At least do something functional that will carry over to your pulling exercises.

Drop the SLDLs. Deads alone will be more economical and save your lower back.

This is great advice. If you concentrate on going hard and heavy on your big compound movements you'll grow. Good stuff in this thread!

 

[ExtraMile]

Glad to see some more knowledgeable bro's have corrected me and given some proper advice.

 

[busupshot83]

Dropping the SLDLs... thanks again.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Here's what I would recommend:

Deadlifts 5 x 6
Dumbell rows 3 x 6
Seated rows 3 x 8
Weighted pullups (wide grip) 3 x 6
Narrow-grip pulldowns 3 x 6

Also, I consider the traps to be a muscle on its own, so I work it out with the shoulders.

Always try to lift as heavy as possible with proper form...less reps if need be.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Depends on sets, rests, rest days, diet, experience and whether your runnin any gear or not.

Just saying but all I do for back is
Deads 5x6
BB Row 5x8
Then on a differant workout day I do Underhand Chins 5x6-8

And back is my strongest and favourite bodypart and if you go on my profile you can see the sort of width I'v built since september. I find BB Rows are soley responsible for my middle back and lats, I alternate between a shoulder width grip and a close grip (like 6 inches apart). I think I have quite a good mind-muslce link with my back and using a cloer grip can really activate and squeeze the shit outta my lats but a wider grip lets me work my middle back muscles.

I dnot really count chins as back exercise cuz i get crazy pumps in my forearms and biceps from it...

Deadlifts is the signle most important exercise for back development. It also helps in growth of the traps significantly.

 

[PWR]

I dont know how you guys can hit back twice a week. My back gets hammered and is sore for a few days and back is my strongest point.
Alcatraz gave a great workout. Thats basically what I do.
I did back today and it looked like this.

Heavy bent over barbell rows 2 warm up sets and 4 heavy sets 6 reps
close reverse grip lat pull downs 4 heavy sets (back is already warmed up)
wide grip seated rows 4 heavy sets.

Next week I will do heavy deads, close grip low seated rows, wide grip lat pulldowns. I would have done deads today but I pulled a muscle in my quad last week and its still sore.

 

[SaiBoT]

Starting next week I will be doing WESTSIDE/SOVIET conjugate method it will actually have me doing at least one back exercise 4 times a week

 

[ExtraMile]

Deadlifts is the signle most important exercise for back development. It also helps in growth of the traps significantly.

& I get crazy forearm pumps from it! They feel like their gonna pop

 

[b fold the truth]

Squats, deads, rowing , benching all that stuff are big money exercises, focus on those and your whole body will grow, don't lose time with small exercises until you are over 200 pounds!

I'm 290 and working on 297 lbs...and my routine is focused around bench press, OHP, squats, and deadlifts. Hard to go wrong with those!

 

[SaiBoT]

I'm 290 and working on 297 lbs...and my routine is focused around bench press, OHP, squats, and deadlifts. Hard to go wrong with those!

Exactly my point right here, those exercises are the best for any kind of weightlifter period!

 

[desmond]

I'm intending to soon try this back workout, which is 3 times per week: T-Nation.com | HSS-100: Back Specialization.

It is divided though: back thickness; pillars (traps/lower back); width.

 

[PWR]

I'm 290 and working on 297 lbs...and my routine is focused around bench press, OHP, squats, and deadlifts. Hard to go wrong with those!

Damn man, your a big dude! I'm 260lbs right now and its feels like alot to carry around. But I'm only 5'10.

 

[SaiBoT]

I'm 290 and working on 297 lbs...and my routine is focused around bench press, OHP, squats, and deadlifts. Hard to go wrong with those!

You have almost more 100lbs than I do and I will take any advice from you because even more because of your type of training!

 

[Unit 2005]

Here's what I would recommend:

Deadlifts 5 x 6
Dumbell rows 3 x 6
Seated rows 3 x 8
Weighted pullups (wide grip) 3 x 6
Narrow-grip pulldowns 3 x 6

Also, I consider the traps to be a muscle on its own, so I work it out with the shoulders.

Always try to lift as heavy as possible with proper form...less reps if need be.

Good routine, only thing i would change is the rep range. Since size is your goal here. Go heavy on the deads are rows, try pyramiding up the weights:-

Deads 5 x 10, 8, 8, 6, 4
Barbell Rows 4 x 12, 10, 8, 8
Chins 3 x 12, 10, 8
Cable Rows 3 x 10, 10, 15*
Lat pulldowns (narrow or reverse grip) 3 x 10, 10, 15*

* = back off set. The idea is to lower the weight and get a few more reps to pump the muscle full of blood. I wouldnt add any trap work to this day, try hitting them with shoulders for a while and see if that makes a difference.