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Off Day DIet - COnflicting Views....

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
I have two trainers that actually are conflicting on what to do with an off day diet...one says keep everything the same...everything...including the high gi pw carbs in the evening...the other says to lower carbs as the day goes on but keep them early since I do am cardio.....so, can I get some thoughts and theories on what you'd do if this was your outlay....on a mild hrt dose, bulking 99% clean....

730 (60 CARBS, 40G PRO, 15G FAT)
OATS 1 CUP (IS THIS ONE CUP OR 1.25???)
1 TB OF PB
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 1


10 (73 CARBS, 55 PRO)
OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ (cooked)
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP or LARGE BANANA?


1230-130 (60 CARBS, 50 PRO)
CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ
HUGE SALAD!

PRE TRAIN (50G PRO, 18G FAT)
300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB

5:30 TRAIN

6:30:00 AM (25 PRO, 60G CARBS)
3 SERVINGS GATORADE
1 SCOOP PROTEIN
1 SERV. CREATINE, 1 SERV GLUTAMINE

700 (100G CARBS, 55 PRO)
CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
OR
10 RICE CAKES
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS


800 (80G CARBS, 50G PRO)
BROWN RICE 3 SERV
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

930 (28G FAT, 50G PRO)
PREBED
(CUBE STEAK) OR FLANK 8OZ
WHITES 4

9:45 BED!
 
plain and simple bro, listen to the "second" trainer, and cut your carbs back later in the day. From your schedule, after 5:30pm I would stick with just fats and protein/veggies. There is no need for hi gi carbs, or high total carb intake on off days since you are not burning them up. Still eat them in the morning and afternoon to keep metab up, and muscles full, but but dinner time don't touch them.
 
SO how does this look:

730 (60 CARBS, 40G PRO, 15G FAT)
OATS 1 CUP (IS THIS ONE CUP OR 1.25???)
1 TB OF PB
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 1


10 (73 CARBS, 55 PRO)
OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ (cooked)
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP or LARGE BANANA?


1230-130 (60 CARBS, 50 PRO)
CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ OR SWITCH TO 3/4 CUP OATS
HUGE SALAD!

(DROPPED)PRE TRAIN (50G PRO, 18G FAT)
300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB
ADDED 4 OZ FLANK, 4 OZ CHICKEN

(DROPPED)
6:30:00 AM (25 PRO, 60G CARBS)
3 SERVINGS GATORADE
1 SCOOP PROTEIN
1 SERV. CREATINE, 1 SERV GLUTAMINE
ADDED:
4OZ CHICKEN, 2 OZ FISH, SQUASH, SALAD


(DROPPED)
700 (100G CARBS, 55 PRO)
CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
OR
10 RICE CAKES
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
ADDED:
4 OZ FLANK STEAK, 2 OZ CHICKEN, CASEIN BLEND

DROPPED
800 (80G CARBS, 50G PRO)
BROWN RICE 3 SERV
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

BED!!!!!!!!!!!!

930 (28G FAT, 50G PRO)
PREBED
(CUBE STEAK) OR FLANK 8OZ
WHITES 4

9:45 BED![/QUOTE]
 
Vascular Freak said:
plain and simple bro, listen to the "second" trainer, and cut your carbs back later in the day. From your schedule, after 5:30pm I would stick with just fats and protein/veggies. There is no need for hi gi carbs, or high total carb intake on off days since you are not burning them up. Still eat them in the morning and afternoon to keep metab up, and muscles full, but but dinner time don't touch them.
Click to expand...

I agree with this - zero carbs in the evening.
 
JKurz1 said:
SO how does this look:

730 (60 CARBS, 40G PRO, 15G FAT)
OATS 1 CUP (IS THIS ONE CUP OR 1.25???)
1 TB OF PB
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 1


10 (73 CARBS, 55 PRO)
OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ (cooked)
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP or LARGE BANANA?


1230-130 (60 CARBS, 50 PRO)
CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ OR SWITCH TO 3/4 CUP OATS
HUGE SALAD!

(DROPPED)PRE TRAIN (50G PRO, 18G FAT)
300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB
ADDED 4 OZ FLANK, 4 OZ CHICKEN

(DROPPED)
6:30:00 AM (25 PRO, 60G CARBS)
3 SERVINGS GATORADE
1 SCOOP PROTEIN
1 SERV. CREATINE, 1 SERV GLUTAMINE
ADDED:
4OZ CHICKEN, 2 OZ FISH, SQUASH, SALAD


(DROPPED)
700 (100G CARBS, 55 PRO)
CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
OR
10 RICE CAKES
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS
ADDED:
4 OZ FLANK STEAK, 2 OZ CHICKEN, CASEIN BLEND

DROPPED
800 (80G CARBS, 50G PRO)
BROWN RICE 3 SERV
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

BED!!!!!!!!!!!!

930 (28G FAT, 50G PRO)
PREBED
(CUBE STEAK) OR FLANK 8OZ
WHITES 4

9:45 BED!
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
good planm???
 
jkurz , normally I would partially agree with them that low "high gi sugars" in the evening is a good policy. I don't believe zero "carbs" in the evening is a good policy. In your case I would not worry about that rule. You're needing to bulk and bulk alot , so I would not go by that rule
 
Last edited:
gjohnson5 said:
jkurz , normally I would partially agree with them that low "high gi sugars" in the evening is a good policy. I don't believe zero "carbs" in the evening is a good policy. In your case I would not worry about that rule. You're needing to bulk and bulk alot , so I would not go by that rule
Click to expand...
Exactly! WHat the hell is all this drop your carbs shit? It's a day off, use to recover and grow not starve your muscle mass! You're bulking for Christ's sake not getting ready for a show!!!!!!!! I can't believe how many people are saying to drop your carbs, that's crazy.
 
Definitely cut your carbs back alot on the off day (after 3:30)!
 
Eat whatever the fuck you like, its your day off! Which means you dont plan you just eat, eat in bed or get up and have a shake.

Did you know Gunter ate 24 cheeseburgers (not rice crackers or huge salads) travelling from U.S to Aus just to maintain his weight during the flight.

You need to think like a big fucker and eat like one.
 
I would definitely up my fat intake bro. You're only getting about 15% of your total caloric intake from fats, thats low even for a cutting diet. Up the fat intake and cut back on the carbs especially in the evening. JMO
 
Damn it! EAT CARBS ALL THE TIME, YOU ARE BULKING! You will NEVER get close to big if you are cutting your carbs back on off days, its so fucking ridiculous that I can't even comprehend it. Everyone is just mirroring what they have heard others say. YOU ARE BULKING, EAT LIKE IT!
 
Does my diet look pretty solid to you guys? Thanks for all the info...Silver...what are you CURRENT stats and diet like? Much thanks fellas..
 
JKurz1 said:
Does my diet look pretty solid to you guys? Thanks for all the info...Silver...what are you CURRENT stats and diet like? Much thanks fellas..
Click to expand...
I'm 6'1 and about 228 right now, have been clean for about 6 weeks. I'm eating about 900g's of carbs a day, mostly good stuff (whole wheat pasta, bagels, rice, oatmeal). Around 300g's of carbs and probably 100g's of fat.
 
these fing dudes n two of the other boards say "you diet needs some serious work"..not that I'm listening to them, but it's hard not to at least give it thought.....I thought it's pretty damn good.....99% clean.....any thoughts?
 
Jeff , just because one doc says (another doc may have another opinion) you have exersize anorexia does not mean that you have to take someones advise and jump off a bridge...

Your diets have always been clean.

Do those other dudes know that you 6'3 and like 150?

I think you should just do a straight bulk and skip the cardio

JKurz1 said:
these fing dudes n two of the other boards say "you diet needs some serious work"..not that I'm listening to them, but it's hard not to at least give it thought.....I thought it's pretty damn good.....99% clean.....any thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
JKurz1 said:
YOU AREN'T eating 900 carbs a day.........
Click to expand...
I get that much in an average day. GJ just said that you are 150 pounds? If I hear one more fucking person tell you to taper your carbs I'm gonna lose my shit. It's mindblowingly stupid for you to EVER watch your carbs. You clearlly have a hard time putting weight on, why in the hell would you ever want to taper your carbs down? Until you hit about 250 this doesn't need to be an issue. I hope I haven't offended anyone...you know what I take that back. They are giving you REFUCKINGTARDED ADVICE. I'm more concerned about you making progress than preserving everyones fragile ego. I can't fucking believe how stupid some people are.
 
silverbackn said:
I get that much in an average day. GJ just said that you are 150 pounds? If I hear one more fucking person tell you to taper your carbs I'm gonna lose my shit. It's mindblowingly stupid for you to EVER watch your carbs. You clearlly have a hard time putting weight on, why in the hell would you ever want to taper your carbs down? Until you hit about 250 this doesn't need to be an issue. I hope I haven't offended anyone...you know what I take that back. They are giving you REFUCKINGTARDED ADVICE. I'm more concerned about you making progress than preserving everyones fragile ego. I can't fucking believe how stupid some people are.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed...EAT MAN!!! Get the bulk!
 
silverbackn said:
I get that much in an average day. GJ just said that you are 150 pounds? If I hear one more fucking person tell you to taper your carbs I'm gonna lose my shit. It's mindblowingly stupid for you to EVER watch your carbs. You clearlly have a hard time putting weight on, why in the hell would you ever want to taper your carbs down? Until you hit about 250 this doesn't need to be an issue. I hope I haven't offended anyone...you know what I take that back. They are giving you REFUCKINGTARDED ADVICE. I'm more concerned about you making progress than preserving everyones fragile ego. I can't fucking believe how stupid some people are.
Click to expand...
its just impossible bro....impossible to put down 900carbs...cutler and coleman don't, so where I am misreading your post.....thats 3600 from carbs alone....just not feasible...
 
jkurz, like I said, you need to up your fat intake. If you are a hard gainer, which I didn’t know until gj mentioned it, then keep your carbs where they are but you need to get more fats into your diet especially on off days. On training days you want to keep the fat low just before and just after WO because you need quicker protein uptake. However, at all other times you need to up your fats. Like I said earlier 15%fats in your diet is low even for cutting. By upping your fats you will slow your system down and cause your body to hold more of the cals rather than burning them up so quickly. If you're a hard gainer then that is what you need. It's obvious your metabolism runs in high gear so don't worry about gaining it completely clean. You'll burn any extra fat quickly as soon as you go back to your maintenance diet. Your fat intake needs to be at about 150g that would put you just over 4500 cals per/day and it would give you a 40%c 30%p 30%f split. You should do well with that!
 
Last edited:
JKurz1 said:
its just impossible bro....impossible to put down 900carbs...cutler and coleman don't, so where I am misreading your post.....thats 3600 from carbs alone....just not feasible...
Click to expand...

its not impossible. COleman probably has more carbs that than he takes in around 10k calories a day. IT would be best you would listen to silver
 
JKurz1 said:
its just impossible bro....impossible to put down 900carbs...cutler and coleman don't, so where I am misreading your post.....thats 3600 from carbs alone....just not feasible...
Click to expand...
I have read where Cutler gets in 1200 to 1500g's of carbs a day in the off-season. I have eaten with Ronnie on more than one occasion, he puts it down. You don't get to 320 pounds without crushing some serious food. I think most pro's probably get atleast 3-4 grams of carbs per pound of bodyweight in the off-season. It's not for everyone, but if you're a hardgainer or you're trying to get cock-diesel big then that's what it will take. I can guarantee you that if you ask all the big cats on this board how many grams of carbs that they eat in the off-season you will see a trend as compared to the guys who are 175.
 
Generally my diets are like his. They are high fat.
High fat means higher calories. Normally I would agree with your diet approach.

I think sugars wold be much faster absorbing and more for an immediate need.


marvelous54 said:
jkurz, like I said, you need to up your fat intake. If you are a hard gainer, which I didn’t know until gj mentioned it, then keep your carbs where they are but you need to get more fats into your diet especially on off days. On training days you want to keep the fat low just before and just after WO because you need quicker protein uptake. However, at all other times you need to up your fats. Like I said earlier 15%fats in your diet is low even for cutting. By upping your fats you will slow your system down and cause your body to hold more of the cals rather than burning them up so quickly. If you're a hard gainer then that is what you need. It's obvious your metabolism runs in high gear so don't worry about gaining it completely clean. You'll burn any extra fat quickly as soon as you go back to your maintenance diet. Your fat intake needs to be at about 150g that would put you just over 4500 cals per/day and it would give you a 40c 30p 30f split. You should do well with that!
Click to expand...
 
Neo22 said:
its not impossible. COleman probably has more carbs that than he takes in around 10k calories a day. IT would be best you would listen to silver
Click to expand...

JK note what neo said about "listening" to silver.

your bulking right? Im the same height as you (6,3) and a bit over 240. I eat pretty much whatever i like because im bulking and try to keep my calorie intake between 6000 and 8000 e/d, I really dont give a shit where i get my calories from, i just eat to get bigger. ill worry about the rest when i decide to cut.
 
I guess my goals are to pretty much stay as lean as possible while doing this...I just don't want to go over 10-12%....many of you guys are plus 15% which is fine because you know how to diet correctly, or some don't care to, ever.......I've worked too damn hard to get lean and I am afraid the food I eat will go to one place only...yup....the stomach. I've already increased my cals to 4,000 and guess what the first thing to fade it....and I'm not getting much stronger....my other fear is that I've done so much damage to my tendons and ligamens that even with all this eating, I'll never be strng again....even while on 250mg of cyp and 300mg of eq a week.....still nervous.
 
Just relax bro. All this is just advice and while we may get at one another arguing whose way is best, the bottom line is the "best" way is whatever you are comfortable with. I hope some of the input was helpful. Good luck bro! :coffee:
 
JKurz1 said:
I guess my goals are to pretty much stay as lean as possible while doing this...I just don't want to go over 10-12%....many of you guys are plus 15% which is fine because you know how to diet correctly, or some don't care to, ever.......I've worked too damn hard to get lean and I am afraid the food I eat will go to one place only...yup....the stomach. I've already increased my cals to 4,000 and guess what the first thing to fade it....and I'm not getting much stronger....my other fear is that I've done so much damage to my tendons and ligamens that even with all this eating, I'll never be strng again....even while on 250mg of cyp and 300mg of eq a week.....still nervous.
Click to expand...

I'm 177 around 10%-11% and eat at least 320g of carbs to maintain my weight. I'm not even on gear. I honestly don't see why your so scared. If anyone should be scared of staying lean and trying to gain weight its those of us not on gear. Your on 500mg of sauce a week start eating, bc its pissing me off!!
:)
 
Neo22 said:
I'm 177 around 10%-11% and eat at least 320g of carbs to maintain my weight. I'm not even on gear. I honestly don't see why your so scared. If anyone should be scared of staying lean and trying to gain weight its those of us not on gear. Your on 500mg of sauce a week start eating, bc its pissing me off!!
:)
Click to expand...
its 250 every two weeks chill.....
 
JKurz1 said:
its 250 every two weeks chill.....
Click to expand...
I think he was just playing bro. I know you're situation is very different from most on here. It's a mental battle every step of the way. It's something that most on here haven't dealt with. Just try to understand that not everyone on here totally knows what's going on with you. Neo doesn't have any bad intentions.
 
If your a hardgainer then you need to fucking eat and EAT BIG....Watching your carbs at night is simply stoping your gains.

You need those calories to full muscle growth and replace glycogen stores.

Me on the otherhand I dont need to eat that may carbs in the evening....also your diet to me looked pretty clean.
 
silverbackn said:
I think he was just playing bro. I know you're situation is very different from most on here. It's a mental battle every step of the way. It's something that most on here haven't dealt with. Just try to understand that not everyone on here totally knows what's going on with you. Neo doesn't have any bad intentions.
Click to expand...

true story check your pm's haus
 
So now we are sending steath messages because Jeff has a mental disorder??? Hey, I don' tneed the fluff....telling me how it is is perfectly appropriate...end of story. I am on 250mg of test EVERY TWO WEEKS...it's just to give me a base as my t levels are so low....so to say I'm on a full blown 500mg cycle a week is fing ridiculuous....tis all.
 
JKurz1 said:
So now we are sending steath messages because Jeff has a mental disorder??? Hey, I don' tneed the fluff....telling me how it is is perfectly appropriate...end of story. I am on 250mg of test EVERY TWO WEEKS...it's just to give me a base as my t levels are so low....so to say I'm on a full blown 500mg cycle a week is fing ridiculuous....tis all.
Click to expand...
Chill bro, I'm helping him out with a workout split. It has nothing to do with you. You gotta quit being so damn defensive! I know it's a difficult situation, try to have some resolve within yourself and thicken your skin! You know I have your back bro!
 
JKurz1 said:
So now we are sending steath messages because Jeff has a mental disorder??? Hey, I don' tneed the fluff....telling me how it is is perfectly appropriate...end of story. I am on 250mg of test EVERY TWO WEEKS...it's just to give me a base as my t levels are so low....so to say I'm on a full blown 500mg cycle a week is fing ridiculuous....tis all.
Click to expand...

just know that taking test every two weeks is going to screw with your blood levels and not keep them steady. I'm not sure what you're doing with the eq, hopefully its EW.
 
Neo22 said:
just know that taking test every two weeks is going to screw with your blood levels and not keep them steady. I'm not sure what you're doing with the eq, hopefully its EW.
Click to expand...
Ok....it's 125mg of cyp on Mondays..........125mg of cyp on thursdays....so I'm steady. Thanks for the concern. Still doesnt put me much over baseline, at least I dont feel much different.

Eq is 2x a week as well....total of 250test, 300mg eq
 
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