Wow, I could hardly follow that complicated computer hacking, double fantasy posting thing. Odd. Anyway, I was a cheater or AM a cheater as I'll forever be tainted with my past and I have not completely let go of it (I am still in mourning over losing a past lover). I had to chuckle at your innocence Straightedge b/c if a place like THIS exists, and the internet is endless, then you know other places exist where people can chat/find just about anything they want. Also, I posted some things on here about my craigslist experiences. You must have missed them. Anyway, I think I have SOME points to offer, but my situation was different (all are different) and so it's not an even parallel, but I hope I can offer some insights. There was a lot of good advice and good suggestions here on what to ask her and what to do (other than heading over and ruining his wife and children's lives). He deserves it, not them. People who think of nothing but themselves and ruin other's lives are no less selfish than your wife. What I did was selfish b/c I believed it to be revenge for my spouse's ongoing selfishness. It's an interesting coicidence that I revisit this place and I see your story b/c I had a breakthrough with my spouse just recently. We had a near miss on breaking up. He showed me the door if I wanted to leave, and I couldn't. He doesn't know (from me) about my past, but I think he knows- the signs were all there. In his case, (and there are MANY kinds of men and approaches/attitudes towards sex), I think he got off on the idea of me living out fantasies- but they are a very rare breed. One of my last chat friends I'll never meet was supposedly like this too, but wanted to be included in the fantasies, if his wife were to live out any. Anyway, I have so many stories of the people I encountered and some I met and it blows your mind how odd they can be like that lawyer playing out a fantasy with HIMSELF? Wow, that's a new one.
Anyway, I am not going to justify what I did, but I will make a list of grievances that you can look over to find where you may or may not need to work on as well. And, I will also list what were my faults and weaknesses that lead me to do what I did.
In my case, I really did not have much remorse until the prospect of losing my spouse when I finally broke and told him my grievances (did not confess the affairs and probably never will). I would also likely still be cheating if my lover did not turn to feeling guilty himself and reject me. In the end, he did me a favor b/c he made me deal with myself. I think he's a lawyer too, come to think of it. So, is my chat friend who wants to see his wife with someone else. Hmm.... a special breed they are. Used to lieing and not feeling anything in the name of being unbiased and seperate from issues. Cheating comes easy to many of them I guess.
Anyway, when my spouse and I had our confrontation, putting (almost) everything out on the table, my spouse rejected me and said he'd make it easy on me and sign on the dotted line or "Set me free" because he loved me. I got a taste of my own medicine and started calling family and friends who experienced divorce. I thought deep down that's what I WANTED and here he was making is so easy for me. (I learned depression runs in my family and my mom, come to think of it, divorced my dad at the age I am now.) Your wife may be too weak to leave on her own and needs you to push her out too. In my case, I thought I was completely devoid of love for him because I had not seen the person I fell in love with in a very long time. There is HIM vs the juvenile irresponsible joker and the mean sarcastic guy. (I have a temper and so does he and when he pushed me once- I disconnected in that moment.) He finally showed me again the person I fell in love with and could finally feel there was still love in there somewhere for him and I saw he really did still love me. I hope to not see the guy again who pushed me and hurt our child in the name of discipline. So far THAT guy has not returned and I hope he never does.
One of the best advice I got from a friend was that marriage counseling will not necessarily help. If she could do it all over and take the advice of one of the counselors she had (who her spouse didn't like), she would have had them BOTH go to seperate counseling sessions. In theory, as an individual each of you need to figure out who you yourselves are at the core and to strengthen that core so you know who you are and what you have to bring to the table as a WHOLE person. She's broken into pieces right now and this could be breaking you too. A broken person can't look to someone else to be fixed or blame the other for being broken.
At the very least SHE needs to go on her own if you don't feel you need it. But, setting the example would help her go. SHE MUST GO TO COUNSELING. There are definately issues there with her and many were named in previous posts: codependence, passive agression, depression, her illness and coping mechanisms, blaming, internet addiction (I'm still guilty but this avenue helps me. Sharing and purging helps me.), her disconnection with you, her not confessing what she's unhappy about in terms of her life, her emotional needs, sexual needs etc....
What's mostly at issue here is her not coming to terms with her unhappiness. I ventured out thinking it was just a physical need and was in denial of my emotional needs b/c I was disconnected. I thought I could be like a guy- stone and just get "what I want". I doubt I can target all the areas that need to be hit here. Relationships and sex are complicated layers with distinction and overlap. The guys on here that just expect fidelity, but make no efforts to maintain it are are selfish assholes. What's the difference between breaking up and sleeping around and then coming back vs conveniently cheating? Honesty is the difference, but that's all. The guys on here who know what they need to do to maintain it and are still cheated on are the real victims. Vica versa for women.
There are many areas that need to considered in a relationship: SEX, AFFECTION, ATTENTION TO PHYSICAL DETAILS, CONSIDERATION FOR HOW SHE WANTS TO BE LOVED & TOUCHED, EMOTIONAL OPENNESS, DOMESTIC RESPONSIBILITIES, CHILDCARE, RESPECT etc.... More good advice: Figure out what is her love language. For most men, they want to be acknowledged, thanked for their efforts (affirmation) and the physical attention (affirmation). Women want to be cherished, treasured, made to feel uniquely special. Even if she played out her nasty side in the erotica it boils down to affection. Pay attention to the details in her erotica writing! She wants that with you too once she sees the person she loves again. Or, she's so far gone she refuses to see it....
I began my cheating journey thinking I was only looking for physical fulfillment b/c my spouse was lousy at meeting a woman's needs, was letting go of his domestic duties, staying on the internet day after day researching his hobby, and I got tired of asking/telling him what to do in bed, and I started to UNbelieve that he did not cheat on me when it was discovered I got an STD during a pregnancy (had not been checked since I moved in with him umpteen years ago). I believed him that he didn't, though science said otherwise. He said the clinic I went to years ago must have missed catching it. I believed him for a long time...
I did not date much before marriage and he was my first real boyfriend, though I was not a virgin going in. But, I never really had good lovers- just experiences. So I set out and just had sex that had little to write home about. (See my OP How is your partner awful in bed?) I was in denial that I needed emotional fulfillment and an emotional relationship. I promised my last lover I totally understood the rules of NSA sex. But, he didn't have sex with me. He made (fake) love to me. He looked, smelled, sounded, FELT like the kind of man I wanted to marry or should have married. I was NOT expecting to find THAT and it devastated me and poked even more holes in my husband's image, until my spouse showed me again the person I fell in love with. My lover left me b/c he sensed my emotional attachment and our intense physical connection was interfering with his ability to feel connected to his wife. I respectfully let him go and it was for the best. Though, he likely will be out again hunting as he still has not found what he needs to feel satisfied and fulfilled so he can settle down. He wanted a free whore basically, even though his style of sex was very intimate. He wants to cut me off and I'm asking he doesn't just yet and to give me a year. I don't want to FEEL like that free whore by at least be given the respect of being treated like a friend. He didn't want an FWB. He wanted PURE NSA. Jerk. So, for those of you cheated on, few women actually find what they are looking for and it burns THEM in the end whether by catching an STD or being rejected, if that's any consolation. I doubt he will find it what he's looking for....HE needs counseling. He knows I'm seeing one.
Though no one deserves infidelity and it is the coward's way of doing things, it happens and you need to find out why she did it if you want to stay with her. I snicker at all the men who are so enraged at cheaters. They say 2/3 MEN will cheat and women are picking up speed and bringing up their numbers too. I suspect a good portion of the last noncheating 3rd just can't bring themselves to do it. I think a 3rd of that 3rd are truly faithful husbands and know that "fidelity is a decision, not a feeling". They have good advice on how NOT to cheat, but learn from cheaters how to keep your spouse from cheating. Well, you can't, for one: but you can feel good you did the best YOU could. (Are you really the lover SHE needs and wants? Are you cherishing her?) Oh, my spouse would "poke" me with his hard one. I HATED HATED HATED that! If she doesn't like it, DON'T DO IT!!!!!
I'm planning on reading a new book "When good people cheat." There are different kinds of affairs like the "ejector affair" where the person HOPES they get caught so they are forced out of a relationship. Again, the cowards way out. It is said men don't leave a relationship unless there's something on the side. I'm sure women can be the same too. Find out what type of affair was her's. My earlier affairs were all just "See the other side" affairs. To find out what GOOD sex is SUPPOSE to be like. But, it turned into an emotional one when I finally came across a person who made love to me the way I've always wanted. (Read my post in The Best Sex You Ever Had thread).
So, first, you need not cater to her just yet. Have her figure herself out. My spouse played it smart. He was aloof, but showed me he still loved me and brought back the person I fell in love with, but let me come to him. I saw that it broke my heart to hurt him and he had enough humilty to try to finally love me the way I want to be loved (my love language). He's agreeing to FINALLY start holding my hand in public, take me out on dates, go down on me, kiss me w/o snake tonguing or sucking my top lip raw, take care of the house better (weeds, broken fixtures, etc...), stop buying things that I don't agree to (huge TV's, furniture I don't like, etc...). You see, he was no innocent either so you need to fess up too where you may not be the best spouse you can be. It's not enough to just BE around and in a relationship and expect fidelity. You have to water, fertilize, put a relationship out in the sun if it is to keep growing. You sound like a great guy and is trying to do the right things so maybe you just need to know the DETAILS of how to be a better spouse. And if she is STILL unsatisfied and won't fix what SHE can bring to the table- it's on HER. Then, let the chips fall where they may.... Best wishes.
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NO SHIT?...SERIOUSLY? Anyone reading this a "Dog Bite" lawyer that want's a piece of these guys? I think I might be looking at early retirement here!!
The list go's on and on. I think these issues warrant a separate second and third tier of psycho therapy.
