Mike Mentzer - His Theories...

[JKurz1]

the important thing is what kind of gear are his clients on?

also, if they are newbies, then i wouldn't bother much.

to be honest, i don't doubt mentzer's HIT wouldn't pack on some amount of mass on someone who is eating a caloric surplus. the problem i have with it would be that it takes away the focus of bodybuilding from training and puts it on diet. in the old days, eating and rest was a given... so much so that i'm guessing that if someone said "you gotta eat big", that would be like stating something so obvious, it didn't even merit a big mention. importance would probably have been given more to training in order to have the best possible symmetry and muscle density. now i really doubt you'd NEED to follow MM HIT to gain some mass while eating. you could just go in to the gym, with just a plan to do x sets for each body part. then you eat whatever's in your refrigerator and hope for the best. you're bound to get stronger over a period of time and hence grow (because of the caloric surplus). throw in some drugs and you grow some more. is it the most efficient way (symmetry & muscle density)? i doubt it.

this quote made me laugh.

"now i really doubt you'd NEED to follow MM HIT to gain some mass while eating. you could just go in to the gym, with just a plan to do x sets for each body part"

Do you really think training intensity isn't important and there isn't a fine line between working the muscle to failure and overtraining? You gotta be kidding me.

Oh if it were just that easy then nobody would be here asking questions and trying new training routines/diet plans/drugs etc

 

[blut wump]

this quote made me laugh.

"now i really doubt you'd NEED to follow MM HIT to gain some mass while eating. you could just go in to the gym, with just a plan to do x sets for each body part"

Do you really think training intensity isn't important and there isn't a fine line between working the muscle to failure and overtraining? You gotta be kidding me.

Oh if it were just that easy then nobody would be here asking questions and trying new training routines/diet plans/drugs etc

Actually, JK, there's very little of that goes on here.

Most fresh names turn up and eventually ask something along the lines of "Do you mean that in order to make gains all I need to do is lift in a progressive fashion?". A dozen voices say "Yes, provided you eat enough" and that's the end of them unless they start a log or have specific questions on some of the lifts or have form issues they want to discuss.

It really is that simple for almost everyone who is ever likely to breeze through here.

 

[Mercere]

Hey thats funny....Last fall when I was doing the 5x5 both madcow and biggt were very helpfull to me and both questioned my eating.Granted I'm not a huge eater I ate all I could with weight gain drinks in between.I'm no newby to the weights either .I'm 46 and 210lbs.On my last 5x5 I was using 305 for bench.Thats nothing compared to the big boys here but probhably more than some.I know it's blasphemous to say here but isn't it possible that for some there is a better way?

There might be a better plan for you rather than the 5x5 as it is laid out on madcow's website. But it sure isn't Mentzer's HIT which is based on false assumptions and pseudoscience. Even if the program has a degree of success in certain people, it is not because of the reasons argued by Mentzer.

As enigma4dub and many members here say, it is the principles behind it that are preached because they have both practical results and scientific backing. Mentioning Mentzer's deteriorating mental health is not necessary since this can be viewed as a desperate ad hominem. The science gives you all the proof you need that his theories are unfounded. Just because something "makes sense" doesn't mean it is true.

 

[JKurz1]

We all bros bro....I have never tried this routine...like the one I am on now, but its coming up on 3 months and wouldnt mind a change....

 

[blut wump]

JK, take a good read through BiggT's Peczz and Flyzz thread.

He runs basic, sound 5x5 training. He has no program behind his training other than that which occurs to him day to day or week to week yet he makes solid progress and his workouts are always fresh and evolving. I doubt that he has suffered workout-stagnation in years of running 5x5.

The "secret" to making gains is to keep striving to improve your lifts. Bouncing back and forth between methodologies leads to its own stagnation as you run in circles.

 

[blut wump]

There might be a better plan for you rather than the 5x5 as it is laid out on madcow's website. But it sure isn't Mentzer's HIT which is based on false assumptions and pseudoscience. Even if the program has a degree of success in certain people, it is not because of the reasons argued by Mentzer.

As enigma4dub and many members here say, it is the principles behind it that are preached because they have both practical results and scientific backing. Mentioning Mentzer's deteriorating mental health is not necessary since this can be viewed as a desperate ad hominem. The science gives you all the proof you need that his theories are unfounded. Just because something "makes sense" doesn't mean it is true.

Agreed.

Madcow's 5x5, as presented, is nothing more than a cookie-cutter program designed to get trainees making progress in the basic, compound lifts with a simple squat, press pull workout and gain some experience in the 5- and 3-rep ranges. The DF version is more of the same but introduces the idea of taking a breather when the workload starts to grind you down.

 

[Protobuilder]

We all bros bro....I have never tried this routine...like the one I am on now, but its coming up on 3 months and wouldnt mind a change....

You are a marketer's wet dream.

 

[JKurz1]

BACK:
DeadLifts: First warm-up with a weight light enough to do 20reps but also enough to apply some pressure to the muscle you're about to stress.
1 Work set with your maximum weight for 6-10 reps from the floor.
FORM IS EVERYTHING.
Ex: I warmup with 225 x 10reps
Workset was with 405 x 10reps

Straight arm cable pulldowns -
Preexhaust with 1 set 6-10reps to failure.

No rest and straight to Widegrip Pulldowns -
Postive/negative/static
1st set - positive failure 6-10reps, use a spot with forced reps

1min rest
2nd set -increase weight - negative failure for 6-10 reps until you can no longer do another rep!

1min rest
Static hold - increase weight - 1rep and hold at contraction (spot should help you get weight in position) hold for up to 12 seconds if you can hold for more then up the weight.

Over to Seated Rows:
2 work sets to failure with strict form and a 3second negative.

TRAPS:
DB Shrugs -
Warmup
2sets to failure 6-10reps HEAVY with proper form and a 2second contraction at the top.

Behind the back Shrugs - 2sets 6-10reps.

BICEPS:
BB curls: 2sets to failure Heavy weight proper form no arching or bouncing.
Spider curls - Positive/Neg/Static
Post - 6-10reps one arm at a time, make it hurt.
Negative - 6-10 keep your spotter close and go until utter failure, arm should feel like it's going to explode
Static - hold until your face turns blue and a slow negative.

Done, now go eat and rest.

 

[JKurz1]

JK, take a good read through BiggT's Peczz and Flyzz thread.

He runs basic, sound 5x5 training. He has no program behind his training other than that which occurs to him day to day or week to week yet he makes solid progress and his workouts are always fresh and evolving. I doubt that he has suffered workout-stagnation in years of running 5x5.

The "secret" to making gains is to keep striving to improve your lifts. Bouncing back and forth between methodologies leads to its own stagnation as you run in circles.

Different goals bro...BigT is my boy and stronger than shit, but that's what he wants to be....I want to be strong yet carry a low bf and a BB physqiue....not too many bbers train in the 3-5 rep range as it is for strength...dont get me wrong, strength is awesome, but I want the mass too...I know, you can't have one without the other.....we'll see....

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Not preaching half ass advice bro and you don't need to be so damn rude, not cool at all. I'm just giving you my personal experiences with his later programs and with the man himself with his phone consultations. Nothing I wrote was untrue. Those methods from High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way and Heavy Duty 2 are nothing like what he used to do to build his own body in the 70's. I've tried to help you a lot and be encouraging over the months but this is the second time you insult me. First when I gave you a protein shake recipe and you called it crap and now I'm preaching half assed advice. Screw that shit.