Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I try - Abe Lincoln example

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I get what you're saying, but the only way this could be done is if all humans were produced in labs. People are individuals, and to all conform to one idea, no matter how good and unifying it may be, is a tall order. Human nature is more complex than idealogy.

i look at how humans have changed their interaction with others over the generations and I have hope that one day we'll all consider humankind one unit and look out for each other equally. I'm not saying get rid of competative drive, not at all, but we'll value each life as much as we value our own.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

i look at how humans have changed their interaction with others over the generations and I have hope that one day we'll all consider humankind one unit and look out for each other equally. I'm not saying get rid of competative drive, not at all, but we'll value each life as much as we value our own.

It's a great thing to hope for; I'll leave it at that.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

It's a great thing to hope for; I'll leave it at that.

I guess some people believe in the afterlife or heaven, I believe in the possibility, almost inevitability of world harmony, that is, if we don't destroy ourselves first.

 

[Sub-Zero]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races -- that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-Abraham Lincoln (September 18, 1858)
____


So, everyone thinks Abraham Lincoln is great right? Wanted to free the slaves? Is on every fucking 5 dollar bill.

Well had he been alive today and said that, he would be a straight up RACIST. No judge and jury, he's a racist, period.

Now you can't just history by today's standards, but here is why I bring this up as an example.


Imagine that after Abe Lincoln said that, there was this guy, PreLEstat lets say. And he sat around coffee houses talking about how black and white people are REALLY EQUAL and should be afforded the SAME RIGHTS under the law.

Well the ignormant population, who we will call EF, would all collectively DENOUNCE PreLestat saying he was a moron, and of course blacks are inferior and they would go on the list out all of the reasons why. Unfornately PreLestat would die long before someone could tell him he was right.
'
That is how I feel when I talk about religion. Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence.

That is how I feel when I talk about many topics on here, like I am somehow just a bit before my time. For example, circumcision. I think its barbaric and should be banned (although I myself and circumcised I can see why it is useless and perverse).

When you think I am a complete moron who's views are so far out there no one could ever possibly agree, remember what Abe said about the black people less than 150 years ago, and keep in mind he was widely respected and considered one of the black man's biggest advocates.

although i disagree with your position on alot of things, i always understand your arguements and you put them across very well.

i too feel like this quote "Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence." applies at times

 

[Lestat]

although i disagree with your position on alot of things, i always understand your arguements and you put them across very well.

i too feel like this quote "Another areas where the ignorant masses have been completely fucking DUPED against all reason, logic, and evidence." applies at times

thanks man

im sure you'll get laid one day too bro

 

[CrazyRussian]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I guess some people believe in the afterlife or heaven, I believe in the possibility, almost inevitability of world harmony, that is, if we don't destroy ourselves first.

World harmony is impossible bro, its human nature. There will never be a time, as long as we exist, where one guy doesn't try to get a leg up on the other for his own benefit. Ever.

 

[Wulfgar]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace

Hendrix

I feel compassion for all beings. I do not condone crimes(child molesting, dog fighting to use the examples quoted here) but I do have compassion for the people who commit them.
I view them as tortured beings, stuck in a level of defilement, blinded by thier own denial, prejudices, and fears. Society generally is @ an animal levels, we as a whole show no compassion and our first instinct is to kill and/or get rid of anything that is deemed socially unacceptable. This drives these people into more secrecy and even more denial. It in essence propogates the problem. Harsher punishments and public ridicule are knee jerk reactions which only serve to stop these people from going places where they actually can get help.
I will concede there are those that at thier current level of development cannot function in society and are truly predators. But if you look @ how jam packed our prison system is with those who do NOT fit that profile it says something about the state of mind of the masses of our country.
"Have not prisons - which kill all will and force of character in man, which enclose within their walls more vices than are met with on any other spot of the globe - always been universities of crime?"
Peter Kropotkin

I do not agree with the Micheal Vick sentencing. Prisons only serve to beget more crime. There are better ways of dealing with troubled people
hopefully one day we will understand this and get it right.

 

[Lestat]

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace

Hendrix

I feel compassion for all beings. I do not condone crimes(child molesting, dog fighting to use the examples quoted here) but I do have compassion for the people who commit them.
I view them as tortured beings, stuck in a level of defilement, blinded by thier own denial, prejudices, and fears. Society generally is @ an animal levels, we as a whole show no compassion and our first instinct is to kill and/or get rid of anything that is deemed socially unacceptable. This drives these people into more secrecy and even more denial. It in essence propogates the problem. Harsher punishments and public ridicule are knee jerk reactions which only serve to stop these people from going places where they actually can get help.
I will concede there are those that at thier current level of development cannot function in society and are truly predators. But if you look @ how jam packed our prison system is with those who do NOT fit that profile it says something about the state of mind of the masses of our country.
"Have not prisons - which kill all will and force of character in man, which enclose within their walls more vices than are met with on any other spot of the globe - always been universities of crime?"
Peter Kropotkin

I do not agree with the Micheal Vick sentencing. Prisons only serve to beget more crime. There are better ways of dealing with troubled people
hopefully one day we will understand this and get it right.

well said, glad other people think rationally and compassionately about this issue.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

World harmony is impossible bro, its human nature. There will never be a time, as long as we exist, where one guy doesn't try to get a leg up on the other for his own benefit. Ever.

i'd say in our lifetime, and this century, you are likely true. But if the species survies hundreds of thousands of year I believe it is possible. No way to know for certain, but we've been becoming more and more civilized as time goes on. It used to be common place to publicly torture and execute people, now we are close to getting rid of capital punishment altogether. Not all areas of the world think this way now, but it seems to be the general trend and direction of society.

 

[gotmilk]

he said he would free them all if that guarenteed it would save the union.

He wanted to ship every slave back to Liberia. No Michael Vick ever if Lincoln had his way. His original goal was to ship 4 million slaves back to where they came from.

His MAIN concern was keeping the country together, slavery was just one of many issues dividing it and he looked for a way to eliminate that division.

Slavery had nothing to do with it. It was an issue of States rights and seperation over federal budget. Southern States were paying huge sums to the Federal Treasury and were being told they could not take slaves to Western expansions. In fact, most farmers in the South were too poor to own slaves to begin with. It was taxation without representation...hillbilly style.

Some of Lincoln's cabinet members owned slaves. The abolitionist pressured Lincoln the way the oil industry has Bush by the testicles.

but the emancipation proclamation came from Congress during his presidency so he is widely credited for it.

Congress never issued the Emancipation Proclamation...it was Lincoln with the help of his Cabinet members. Congress did not authorize such a statement, but Lincoln used his position as Commander in Chief during the War to make the order. Lincoln claimed it was as a necessary war measure rather than the equivalent of a statute enacted by Congress or a constitutional amendment. Congress never wanted nor approved such a measure until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was added to the Constitution.