Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I try - Abe Lincoln example

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Oh and your original post is wrong, too. Abe Lincoln didn't want to free the slaves, but any 7th grader who wants to impress mommy and daddy knows that. Funny how the great prophet Lestat doesn't...oh well its probably because youre so ahead of your time.

And Abe Lincoln wasn't a visionary or ahead of his time, at least in the sense you're talking about. He didn't come up with any new viewpoints or w/e. At any given time there were millions of Americans who absolutely agreed with him and shared all of his feelings (hint:this is how he got elected president). Oh hey that also discredits your dumb coffee house analogy...what else you got?

the point was, and still is, Abraham Lincoln is widely respected despite being a racist. He was wrong then, but how many people would have been willing to stand up and argue against him? Not many, as you said he reflected the popular opinion at the time!

my point is, it was wrong, Abe was wrong, the masses were wrong, but to argue against it would probably mean catching an ass whooping and being called a n*gger lover.

 

[Phaded]

c russian for mod.. and about mike vick with great power comes great responsiblity..

thats why he's on primetime news youngster.

 

[LuluDeren]

Please Lord, deliver me 1 mil K so that I may smite a threadstarter in the manner of which I have become accustomed ...decorated with precious jewels.

 

[Lestat]

c russian for mod.. and about mike vick with great power comes great responsiblity..

thats why he's on primetime news youngster.

I agree with that to an extent.

But I also feel a bit sorry for him, came from nothing, now has everything.

He's an idiot, a fool, that is for sure. He was stupid for getting involved in this, he should have known better, known the consequences, etc. He deserves to be punished, fined, suspendede from football, probation, put his ass to work in some shelters, that will be a wake up call. Its just when it comes to Prison that I think it gets excessive, my opinion. I know others that think he should be electrocuted, or beaten, physically hurt in some way for his action. I disagree with that as well, and I am sure others do.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

by the way, Abe Lincoln WAS a visionary for his time, a great man, one of the best Presidents we've had, certainly one of the best writers, speakers, and motivators.

I use him as an example of how even the most outstanding individuals can get things wrong. Even the most powerful world leaders, can get things wrong.

Striving for equality is great, if we live in fantasy-land.
It is impossible for blacks and whites or any others to be "equal" by comparison. How we ever got such a notion into the country's collective head is baffling. There must always be a hierarchy in any society, and some group of people have to be at the top. Everyone being considered "equal" will only lead to chaos (which we're slowly getting to), because it is fucking impossible. Look around the world....is everyone truly equal?

 

[Phaded]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

I agree with that to an extent.

But I also feel a bit sorry for him, came from nothing, now has everything.

He's an idiot, a fool, that is for sure. He was stupid for getting involved in this, he should have known better, known the consequences, etc. He deserves to be punished, fined, suspendede from football, probation, put his ass to work in some shelters, that will be a wake up call. Its just when it comes to Prison that I think it gets excessive, my opinion. I know others that think he should be electrocuted, or beaten, physically hurt in some way for his action. I disagree with that as well, and I am sure others do.

right but you're still on the fact that he's getting jailed for torturing animals.. that coupled with the fact that he's one of the most dynamic qbs to ever play is why its all over the news..

i doubt most of his time served is cause of torturing animals..

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Striving for equality is great, if we live in fantasy-land.
It is impossible for blacks and whites or any others to be "equal" by comparison. How we ever got such a notion into the country's collective head is baffling. There must always be a hierarchy in any society, and some group of people have to be at the top. Everyone being considered "equal" will only lead to chaos (which we're slowly getting to), because it is fucking impossible. Look around the world....is everyone truly equal?

nope, there isn't equality, never has been.

But do you think its possible at some point in human history? I do. Am I a fool for thinking that? I dont think so. I think we can get the earth to a place where no one dies of hunger, ever. Where everyone can and does have their basic needs met.

On an individual basis there will always be diveristy and discrepancies, but on a whole I think we can all be equal, certainly not divided by race.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

no, not exactly, I wish.

I think that what you think and what I think about many topics will be completely skoffed at in future generations, maybe 100 years, maybe 1000. People will think, wow those guys were so far off track.

I just try to at least stay on track within the context and confines of what we know today. To stay constantly on the bleeding edge so that my personal beliefs and life philosophies are are true and correct as they could be given the contextual knowledge that I know today.

For example, my dad is very conservative, he thinks that if a bunch of black people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up!

I think that is utterly RIDICULOUS. If a bunch of POOR people move to your neighborhood, the crime rate will go up, doesn't matter if they are white, black, brown, yellow...

no matter how hard I try to explain it logically to my dad, he'll never get it. There is nothing about your skin color that makes you more prone to crime, NOTHING! There is a strong correlation between factors like household income, education level, parent's education level, parent's criminal history. But there is nothing about someone's ethnic makeup that makes them more or less prone to crime.

Unfortunately my father, a wise man in many ways, either refused to believe this, or simply does not want to.

Well, there are great people from all ethnicities, but it is still tough to ignore the fact that different ethnicities are just that.....different. If we were all responsible for our own race only, by your rationale, all races would end up at the same level of advancement.....so how come they haven't?

How many African explorers have there been in history? (rhetorical q) Ok, why aren't there as many (if any) as whites for example? Because they behave differently. So, why do they behave differently? Climate, geographical location, etc? Why have others moved about the earth while others haven't, assuming human life started in the same place? Yet here minorities are today bickering and feuding over "oppression" and "racism" etc. etc. When are they going to start claiming more responsibility for their own position in life, and history, instead of "blaming the white man" for all their problems and lack of upward mobility? Everyone wants a piece of the pie, be it success, land, resources, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, those who worked for it the most are those who deserve it the most. Only now little by little we're giving it away, most likely out of guilt intertwined with crooked politics. And how much does someone appreciate something that's given to them, vs. having to work for it? You can go back to the beginning of time, which is the only time we could've all been considered equal, but a look through history would see we've all ended up far from it.

See what I'm getting at.....when you get to the core of it, we are different.

 

[Lestat]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

Well, there are great people from all ethnicities, but it is still tough to ignore the fact that different ethnicities are just that.....different. If we were all responsible for our own race only, by your rationale, all races would end up at the same level of advancement.....so how come they haven't?

How many African explorers have there been in history? (rhetorical q) Ok, why aren't there as many (if any) as whites for example? Because they behave differently. So, why do they behave differently? Climate, geographical location, etc? Why have others moved about the earth while others haven't, assuming human life started in the same place? Yet here minorities are today bickering and feuding over "oppression" and "racism" etc. etc. When are they going to start claiming more responsibility for their own position in life, and history, instead of "blaming the white man" for all their problems and lack of upward mobility? Everyone wants a piece of the pie, be it success, land, resources, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, those who worked for it the most are those who deserve it the most. Only now little by little we're giving it away, most likely out of guilt intertwined with crooked politics. And how much does someone appreciate something that's given to them, vs. having to work for it? You can go back to the beginning of time, which is the only time we could've all been considered equal, but a look through history would see we've all ended up far from it.

See what I'm getting at.....when you get to the core of it, we are different.

I see your point, but disagree.

I think we as humans are for MORE similar to each other, even someone who is a different race, or different sex, than we are different. Seriously, I think all humans have the same basic wants and needs, we all have similar aptitudes. There are many factors that will explain why certain civilizations flourished and others didn't. In Africa for example, they were in a hot arid environment with little natural resources and high in protential predators for a long while. ALL it takes is a small advancement in technology and boom it gives an entire civilization a huge leg up for generations to come. One day will we really have such distinct races. Humanoid form has been around 165,000 years. What about in 100,000 more years, will there be such a thing as "Chinese" anymore?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: Let me explain myself a bit more - I know I don't always do it the best, but I tr

nope, there isn't equality, never has been.

But do you think its possible at some point in human history? I do. Am I a fool for thinking that? I dont think so. I think we can get the earth to a place where no one dies of hunger, ever. Where everyone can and does have their basic needs met.

On an individual basis there will always be diveristy and discrepancies, but on a whole I think we can all be equal, certainly not divided by race.

I get what you're saying, but the only way this could be done is if all humans were produced in labs. People are individuals, and to all conform to one idea, no matter how good and unifying it may be, is a tall order. Human nature is more complex than idealogy.