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Joined 18th August, starting September 1 ("project Des")

Just resumed omega today. Post photos in a week.

CHEST DAY:

Machine Bench (wide grip, kg)
23x20
30x15
36x10
43x7
36x3

DB incline bench (lbs for each db)
15x20 (too light)
20x20
25x15
30x10
35x6
30x3

Cable Flys (machine doesn't use weights, just units)
3x20
4x15
5x12
6x6.5
5x3

COMMENTS on chest - I went slower than prescribed I realise, as even the 15 rep set almost went 2 minutes. But awesome pump etc

SM - felt good, but no endurance this time. Our SM is quite heavy, and I actually just stayed on the SM alone, with reps decreasing accordingly (ODD)

Triceps Push Downs
- 9kgx20
- 11.5x15
- 13x9
- 13x6
- 9x?

Well went very light, but got awesome burn. I never got this last time on omega - the differnece is I perform 2-3 minutes of extreme biscep stretching now before this exercise, which prevents my bis from pumping up and retarding movement

Cardio: 7 mins running, 9km, 15 degree incline (first cardio in ages - struggle lol).
 
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Strict Direction:

use 50% less weight for 3 weeks then start pushing once connective tissues and cns is primed
 
OMEGA said:
Strict Direction:

use 50% less weight for 3 weeks then start pushing once connective tissues and cns is primed
Click to expand...

Will do. These weights were intentionally lower - although not by 50% - I was going much slower, more flexed than usual, but will lower them some more.

Note: all but the tyrosine has arrived. I bought in bulk. Weighing some of them (as such small dosages are required) could be a problem. Sups in AUS are really expensive though so this is the only affordable way
 
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OK per lighter weights direction
Key lifts:
- Leg press 117kg
- SM, 50kg
- Seated Calf Raise - 15kg (still surprisingly a good workout)

I will stay with these weights for the 3 weeks unless I indicate otherwise. I did execute all reps more slowly today I should note
 
Note:

Re sups, I am currently operating on this assumption: 1g DMAE, 2g Acetly L-Carnitine, 2g Tyrosine, 5 Malate, 10g Citrulline.

I sometimes have a tea or coffee also pre-workout (if I feel I need it because of poor sleep or some other reason), but its my only caffeine that I ever consume
 
do NOT use that Much DMAE at all
give me email so i can tell you how to run a better PreWorkout combo
The tyrosine is also a bit high but all Else is outstanding the malic acid with the acetyl carnitine should cause a nice brain buzz that feels GREAT
 
OMEGA said:
do NOT use that Much DMAE at all
give me email so i can tell you how to run a better PreWorkout combo
The tyrosine is also a bit high but all Else is outstanding the malic acid with the acetyl carnitine should cause a nice brain buzz that feels GREAT
Click to expand...

OK. I will give you my email by PM.

I like the feel of the sups so far, and I feel strangely relaxed not too long after the workout.

BACK DAY - lighter weights as per directed (final set listed).

Lat Pull Down 25kg
DB rows - 25lb
Shrugs/Lateral Raise Superset (30lb/8lb - I got some strange looks on the first set shrugging 15lbs)
Bi curls - bar + 10kg (maybe a bit too heavy per light direction so maybe reduce)
EZ bar curls - bar + 5kg

Cardio was elliptical (7 mins - HR 180 at end). Normally it will be treadmill at maximum incline
 
CHEST DAY lighter per direction (not 50% lighter than last chest day, as that was already a fair bit lighter as I performed super slow reps)

max set
Machine Chest Press (Natiulus) - 32.3kg
DB Incline bench - 25lbs (got strange looks on the opening 12lb set)
Cable Flys (copied form in video, previously I was doing them as in Yates video) - 6 (not kgs, but units)
SM Press - 5kg+SM
Triceps - 13kg
Cardio - 7 mins of treadmill at max incline. I didn't go that full out today - a bit wussy on the cardio
 
Leg day (per lighter direction):
- Leg Press: 117kg
- SM press: 60kg + SM (mistake - meant to be 50, but for whatever reason I mistook 15's for 10's)
- Seated Calf Raise: 20kg (I decided to go 5 higher than last time)
- SLDL: 80lbs.

I may go lighter next time even on SLDL. I have a really hard time isolating the lower back, even on hypers. And it really needs to be improved - my glutes are overactive on any lower back exercise, and i have fettuccine lower back syndrome. .
 
Omega: BTW, ur sups are helping my piano playing lol.

Since having chronic headaches 3 years, I have lost a lot of confidence in my intellect (3 years ago, I was supremely confident, I was very close to top of one of Australia's best law schools, got offers from all major 6 firms; whereas now feel dizzy and stupid 24/7, and had to take a leave of absence from the law firm I was working out, and may well never return, or if I do return to law, it will be at a much more sub-top-tier firm).

I decided to undertake my first intellectual challenge a week or two ago and start playing the piano again (haven't seriously for 10 years). I swear when I get back from weights and I can still feel the sups, my piano focus and playing is much better lol

A fortunate, unintended side effect.
 
BACK DAY
- same weights as per last time, except I decided to go a bit lighter on DB rows.

THIS is week 1 off light weights competed (2 more to go I guess before it gets intensive).

I'm still getting good pumps despite the lighter weights.
 
Chest today (same as last time re: weights).

Really should have been rest day rest day, but didn't think I'd be able to train tomorrow.

Fair to say felt very lethargic in the gym today and probably shouldn't have gone to the gym. Didn't do cardio.
 
REST DAY TODAY
- yesterday, unfortunately was my first cheat. Not impressed with myself. Basically just had really bad headaches so was miserable. Will try and not let this again. Large bowl of oats, with several bananas + lots of milk
 
Leg day:

Same leg pres, calves, but one change made.

I realise my SM is uneven - i thought this a while ago, but now I'm convinced. 60kg on it feels like 120kg on my back etc. So I swapped for free weights today. No pressure on back.

Form was to accentuate quads:
- closer stance
- 2.5lb weights under feet (may scrap this)
- let of a "sitting back action" + high bar.

Felt good.

Weights:
- 50
- 55
- 60
- 65, drop set on 60

I realise this is above 50% direction - prob 25-35% down. Will go lower next time.
-
 
Iggy: the leg press hits my glutes, but never canes my glutes.

A part of me doesn't trust my leg press - I may try and find the model, and ask omega whether it be better to do wide stance squats (low bar) as replacement
 
Omega: please advise was to which leg press u'd recommend, or alternative, wide, free weight squats.

So these are my two leg press options:

(1)

Nautilus® Commercial Equipment
Now this machine when you press, goes forward and downwards, so its not as bad as it looks.
(2)

Nautilus® Commercial Equipment

This machine is different to how it looks, because when you press, the weight goes downward dramatically as well as forward. The dramatic downward aspect means it feels awkward and appears to put some lower back stress
 
Gosh BOTH those Legs Presses are sooo POORLY designed

each has its own slew of problems that are NOT good for the athlete

however if I had to use one over the other sad to day its the Machine Sled thingie lol

the other leg press has the right idea but the pivot point and the part when the ankles brace is HORRID
 
Leg day:

Wide Stance Squats - 70kg (I realise I went above the 50% direction on both version of squats, won't again, just got carried away, but this was probably 85-90%, not all out)
Narrow Squats - 70kg
Calf Raises - 25kg
RDL's or SLDLs (they look like RDL's to me) - I did these super light, 50lbs. I have piss weak spinal erectors, and my ability to move any weight with them without the glutes taking over completely is low, so I'm just trying to establish proper MMC
 
Back day:
- same weights as per direction.
- cardio was strider (my legs were too sore from yesterday to do incline treadmill, so I went slightly wussier)

Am going to include diet also now

255P; 248C (of which 60Fibre); 90F.
Break: eggs, oats, milk, cassia
Lunch/PWO: whey, steak + baked beans, onion, tomatoes
Dinner: salmon, eggs, green beans, tomatoes

I'm just recording diet for motivation to comply with diet rules (I'm annoyed there have been two major instances of non-compliance in 2 weeks, although otherwise compliant), not for purposes of review
 
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iggy said:
LOL at strider. that's weaksauce des.


jk man. hahaha
Click to expand...

I like 15 degree incline treadmill best, but I won't do it if I'm feeling non-courageous, particularly the day after leg days if my legs/calves are sore.

When I was working in melbourne, twice a week, a would run up to level 35 4 consecutive times for cardio. Shame I don't have access to any decent buildings ATM. Awesome cardio
 
Rest day:

Diet:
(I woke up hungry at 2 am)
(1) 3 eggs
(2) eggs, beef, beans, onion
(3) beef, peas, onion, tomatoes
(4) salmon, spinach, tomatoes
233P; 205C (60 fibre); 85F
 
Whole milk has been axed per the "blue collar diet thread" (I asked about it PWO and was advised against it).

I didn't consume oats today or workout, so no milk - for the first time in a year lol.
 
iggy said:
damn. can we drink any milk omega?
Click to expand...

Yes, we can drink milk.

In fact, outside PWO, I'm not sure if Omega proscribes whole milk (he prescribed 2% fat for somebody else for AM).

Obviously, milk should be excluded for dinner.
 
yes. i usually only eat it with breakfast as a carb with whole wheat toast or oats. maybe preworkout. my favorite kind of milk is skim. but since you said whole is betting i have been drinking that for a week.
 
iggy said:
yes. i usually only eat it with breakfast as a carb with whole wheat toast or oats. maybe preworkout. my favorite kind of milk is skim. but since you said whole is betting i have been drinking that for a week.
Click to expand...

We probably shouldn't be using these threads as conversations - get on facebook lol

I just referred to whole milk in one study >> skim milk PWO, so I was strictly referring to that scenario, but it was only one study, and Omega has indicated a preference for minimal fats PWO.
 
Chest day:

No changes to lifts (light direction)

Diet:
- mild overeating today: 260P; 260C (of which 60 fibre); 80 F

(1) eggs, steak, sweet potato, onion
(2) PWO, baked beans + whey
(3) chicken, almond, cheese, red peppers, tomatoes, cucumber, onion
(4) chicken, cheese, spinach, tomatoes.

A LOT of tomatoes today. They were extra delicious, and I'm a lover of raw tomatoes.
 
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Back day, as per direction
250P; 220C (50F fibre); 92F

(1) eggs, steak, onion, sweet potato
(2) PWO, milk + whey; butternut squash
(3) eggs, low fat cheese, tomatoes
(4) steak, fish oil, low fat cheese, tomatoes

Unfortunately, major cheat after logging last night. Good food (steak, onions, tomatoes, red peppers) but far too much of it. Prob 800 cals.

I'm almost tempted to try the 1kg "steroid effect of spinach" diet: Spinach Has Steroid Effect | Diet & Nutrition.

Would cost $50 per week, but I could effectively not eat other fiberous veggies.
 
desmond said:
I'm almost tempted to try the 1kg "steroid effect of spinach" diet: Spinach Has Steroid Effect | Diet & Nutrition.

Would cost $50 per week, but I could effectively not eat other fiberous veggies.
Click to expand...

That's some cool info des! I'm going to be honest I hate spinach but if it's proven to make you grow faster plus a welth of other benefits then it's worth eating. Think about how many awefull tasting shacks and things we've put into our body for the same reason, it only makes sence to eat spinach lol. Since starting the project I have added raw baby spinach to my salads, it's a start I guess :p
 
Leg day:

- wide stance free weight squat, 70kg (having difficulties maintain bar in proper position with low bar squat, so will buy some padding)
- narrow free 1/2 weight squat, 80kg
- calf raises - 20kg
- SLDL - 30kg (doing these light to feel in lower back alone)

First day post the 50% direction.

I'm kinda worried - my insomnia has been shocking lately.

Diet:

(1) eggs, salmon, sweet potato, tomato
(2) lunch: spinach, sweet potato salmon
(3) dinner: spinach, beef
(4) PWO: whey, glut, milk, sweet potato
 
desmond said:
First day post the 50% direction.

I'm kinda worried - my insomnia has been shocking lately.
Click to expand...

Shit Des, that's not good. Are you thinking it could be a sign of more serious issues going back to what you have been experiencing previously?
 
access said:
Shit Des, that's not good. Are you thinking it could be a sign of more serious issues going back to what you have been experiencing previously?
Click to expand...

Nah insomnia is unrelated - its to do with the headaches. Sometimes they just keep me up indefinitely. So my sleep is always poor.

Temazepan is the only cure lol but I only use if its really bad (as in <2hours of sleep per night)
 
access said:
Shit Des, that's not good. Are you thinking it could be a sign of more serious issues going back to what you have been experiencing previously?
Click to expand...

Nah insomnia is unrelated - its to do with the headaches. Sometimes they just keep me up indefinitely. So my sleep is always poor.

Temazepan is the only cure lol but I only use if its really bad (as in <2hours of sleep per night)

I'm only worried about the insomnia b/c of its effect on muscle growth and energy levels
 
I thought I was a bad sleeper at only 4 hours some nights. Hard to function on 2 or less let alone the impact on muscle growth and recovery.
 
Back Day - much better workout in terms of how it felt

Lat Pull Down - 37.5kg
DB row - 35lb
Shrug/Lateral Raises - 50lb/12lb

Diet (I feel like I have regained my diet mojo):
Breakfast and lunch: sweet potato, salmon, eggs, spinach
Dinner: spinach, beef, EVOO
PWO: whey, 500 ml milk, cocoa, and PWO carbs white potato (no sweet potato left)
Preworkout: supps, grean tea + cocoa
 
Chest day:
- db bench 40lbx6
- Shoulder Press - 10kg + machine (this machine is weighted but don't know precisely)

Ok much better - mind muscle connection for chest day is returning to its former level. I had lost it a bit on chest. And this time the shoulder press really smashed my front delts

Diet:
- it's been a week since any cheat, and 1 1/2 since a really bad cheat.
Today:
Breakfast: sweet potato, chicken, almond, fish oil, spinach
Lunch: sweet potato, chicken, spinach, EVOO
Dinner: egg, chicken, fish oil, spinach
PWO: 2 glasses 1% milk, cocoa 50WPI, 15 glutamine, 500g butternut squash (pre: sups, green tea, cocoa)

Creatine: i decided to give it another go. I am assuming that the brand I got was contaminated or something and hence that caused my problems. If I experience any I will discontinue (I have had no sides from the sups u suggested omega). I have bought Musashi Monohydrate as my creatine brand
 
Leg day:

Wide Squat - 70kg (didn't go super hard - I'm trying to get the ham/glute groove down pat on this one - it's a bit difficult because I feel it more there if I do low bar squats, but it's hard to maintain the bar position for high reps low bar)
narrow 1/2 squat -80kg (didn't complete drop set as completely failed on 4th set)
seated calf raises - 30kg
SLDL - 40kg (super light to try to hit lower back only)

Diet:
(1) egg, chicken, sweet potato, spinach
(2) salmon, sweet potato, spinach
(3) spinach, beef, flaxseed oil
(4) PWO: 700mls milk (1%), 10g cocoa, 5g cinnonom, 50 WPI, 20 glutamine.

Note: by mistake, went over fats yesterday. Thought I was eating the lean beef patties I bought (6% fat), but instead ate my brothers 15% fat ones. So ingested 20g of extra fat unintentionally. No wonder they tasted good.
 
Back Day
- lat pull down: 42kg
- DB row: 35lb
- shrug/lateral raise: 50/12lb

Diet:
(1) egg, salmon, sweet potato
(2) lean beef, sweet potato, spinach, onion
(3) flaxseed oil, chicken, spinach
(4) PWO: milk, whey, glut, banana

I seem to be on a good run diet wise and totally not tempted to cheat which is good.
 
Chest Day:
machine bench: 50kg
db bench: 45lb (although only made 6)
cable flys: 6 on machine
SM press: 5kg + machine (less than last time - I think b/c I went harder on db bench)

Now its not on omega, but today they allowed people for first time to used a vibration plate. So I thought I really want to try this once. So I did 3 sets of superslow front raises (3-4kg each hand) to test it. Sets lasted a minute. Not sure if I see anypoint to it. Do the vibration plates increase blood flow to muscles????

Diet:
(1) sweet potato, eggs, salmon
(2) PWO: milk, cocoa, whey, glut (accidentally used 30g glut)
(3) sweet potato, eggs, salmon
(4) spinach, beef, EVOO

My trial spinach diet is over - too much flatulence
 
Leg day:
- 75kg Wide squat
- 80kg Narrow Squat (but more endurance - started on higher weight)
- 40kg seated calf raise

Back Day
- LAt pull down 46kg
- DB row: 30lb (heavy DB - there are two sets of DB's in gym, this is the heavier set)
- shrugs/lateral raise: 60/12lbs

Well I seem to be responding OK to creatine - no return of pins and needles.

Omega, I'm getting no buzz at all from that supplement mix you suggested - I even tried one session without it and didn't notice any difference. Perhaps its because I'm on migraine meds ATM (Verapamil, L-type calcium channel blocker: Verapamil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). It's not working (so far been 2 weeks) so I have only one more week of trialling it.

Having said that I didn't notice really anything after a few sessions of trailing supps - i never notice sups.

A major slip up on mum's birthday for diet. Back to normality now.
 
Chest day:
- couldn't do machine bench (busy and I had a iimited time upon arriving in gym), so did omega chest workout per sticky
- 55lbsx7 db bench
- SM shoulder press: 10kgx7

felt good today. Good workout
 
Leg day.

EXCELLENT WORKOUT. Energy seems to be returning. Either the bumped Acetly dose or my body is now use to the new migraine med and is no longer languid because of it.

Wide Squats - 90kgx7 (starting weight 65 - will do 70 next time)
Narrow 1/2 squats -90X9 (starting weight 70).
SLDL 70kg
seated raises -40kg (I think I need to put more effort in these - my mind is always thinking about the squats on leg day, prob also cause I care more about quads/hams than calves which are already fine).

The only problem on both squats sets is that I couldn't do the drop set - it was total failure. No belt today - left it at home. Awesome lower back pumps during the squats.
 
Back DAY:

good workout:
Lat Pull down - 51kg
1 arm row - 40lb
Shrug/Lateral Raise 60lb/15lb

Interesting medical news to say the least today.

The cause of my headaches, no energy, mental fog, constant nocturnal urination, feeling like I have alzheimars, and 0 sex drive may have been discovered.

Got my testosterone results (and remember i have never used aas)

Free Test 39 (normal range is 170-500)
Test 1.6 (normal is 6-30)
SHBG 18 (normal is 15-70)
FAU 8.9 (normal is 18-210)

YOu can see I'm basically off the charts low. And these ranges are for all adult ages - I'm 26 lol

It's amazing I have any muscle mass to speak of - I hope the HRT the endo ends up prescribing (1) improves my medical problems affecting my law career and (2) turns me into a beast lol
 
iggy said:
i'm glad for you bro.
you are going to be fucking massive in the next 5 months.
Click to expand...

Well, I see an endo on Monday week.

I don't know what he will prescribe yet, but my GP says given how low my readings are it will have to be something.

And if he doesn't, I will go to every Endo in Adelaide.
 
desmond said:
Back DAY:



Free Test 39 (normal range is 170-500)
Test 1.6 (normal is 6-30)
SHBG 18 (normal is 15-70)
FAU 8.9 (normal is 18-210)

YOu can see I'm basically off the charts low. And these ranges are for all adult ages - I'm 26 lol

It's amazing I have any muscle mass to speak of - I hope the HRT the endo ends up prescribing (1) improves my medical problems affecting my law career and (2) turns me into a beast lol
Click to expand...

WOW

Des your life will improve DRAMATICALLY once you get HRT


DEMAND 200 mgs of Test a week and 50 mgs of Deca
for you this till put you on the super upper range and make you feel GREAT

demand VIGOROUS living from your doc, not just 'coasting' in life

150 or less is Unacceptable a week.
 
OMEGA said:
WOW

Des your life will improve DRAMATICALLY once you get HRT


DEMAND 200 mgs of Test a week and 50 mgs of Deca
for you this till put you on the super upper range and make you feel GREAT

demand VIGOROUS living from your doc, not just 'coasting' in life

150 or less is Unacceptable a week.
Click to expand...

thankyou - I'm hoping the doctor will treat this properly and aggressively.

I mean - my levels weren't just low, they were 90 year old girl low lol

I think my weights progress is actually quite good given I almost have no test. At least,when I have seen people progress faster than me despite poorer poorer/less intensity, I can now feel vindicated that it was "genetics".

But I'm hoping (more so) that this will mean the end to my last 3.5 years of very crappy health problems
 
Everything is about to change

you have no idea


You will Blossom in more ways then one

and it not the drug that will do it all they do is activate what was already in you
 
yes, I'm very happy Access.

Omega: i can't say for sure when I will be given HRT or what it will be. It's possible the endo will want more tests. My thinking was that stage two should probably be started 3 weeks into any HRT given - so I should delay it until then, given I'm hoping this within 4-6 weeks of seeing the endo (Monday 29th) I will be given something. Stage 2 could be a waste starting any earlier, in the sense that I don't want the HRT to start and then to be resting within the following 12 weeks.
 
Chest day:

- db incline 45lbsx7 (lighter than last time as followed flat bench
- SM 12.5+ machine

BTW Omega: what is ur feeling on the vibrator/power plate machines? I have tried it out of curiosity (for shoulders/bis) as our gym bought a really expensive one, and noticed far less cramping on exercises (particularly biscep curls) which actually increased the rep range I could do.
 
Drank for first time in 3 months, given I won't be able to when put on HRT.

Can't say I miss alcohol at all. I think its over for me and alcohol after this.
 
Street had a going away party for us last Saturday night and I had about 6 beers and damn if it didn't take me 2-3 days to get over the hang over..that sux man. I just am unable to drink anymore at all so I feel ya Des.
 
This is an awesome thread Des....and you're doing a great job...no one better than OMEGA to take care of you

Congrats
 
access said:
Street had a going away party for us last Saturday night and I had about 6 beers and damn if it didn't take me 2-3 days to get over the hang over..that sux man. I just am unable to drink anymore at all so I feel ya Des.
Click to expand...

I guess its good that i can't tolerate alcohol well now (weights wise), and obviously once the HRT begins I cannot take any risks.

For whatever reason, alcohol gives me an insane appetite - so I have crazy cheat meals when drunk. So its not good in that respect.

the_alcatraz:

thanks. Time will tell but I may end up owing Omega everything. It was his posting of the uses of testosterone (radio show) that made me get my levels checked (as I then researched side effects of low test, and found that they explained a lot of medical issues). Certainly if I can return to the law firm I was at in fine health, progress and make lots of $$$$$, I will owe Omega 100x more than an improved physique.

LEG DAY:
- free weight back squat: 90x7kg (starting on 70x20). Was having bar position issues on this today.
- free weight close stance 1/2 squat; 92.5x7kg (starting on 70x20)
- SLDL - 70kg
 
That's exiting news Des! Hopfully everything works out for you. I'd love to hear how everything works out and to see your progress with HRT
 
Hey Omega:

My training intensity seems very erratic at the moment (30% OK-good; usually crap). I'm assuming its related to my hormonal state and the feeling of zero energy. I don't know when I get prescribed HRT if at all - see specialist on Monday. I'm not going to bother logging in lifts in the meantime.

Suprisingly, I have made more improvement in squats than any lift in the last 2 months, despite being the most demanding, although this has not corresponded with any size gains.

To be honest, I am not making any progress at all ATM in terms of hypertrophy and attribute this to the zero hormones. It's apparently the lowest my GP has ever seen

I don't know why I can bench 1.5 times my bodyweight with these level of hormones and squat double - so presumably, if HRT works, I have some OK potential in me.

When beginning your program, I quickly made progress then it stopped. I assume I was just exhausting my limited (low T) related genetic potential in a rapid fashion.
 
Yes access, I don't attribute the lack of succcess post November too Omega.

I am still training but my only aim is for retention
 
You know I am excited to see how you respond once you get on HRT. I am betting chnages will come big time!
 
Well I have to wait another week at least.

The Endo wanted a retest, with some other variables considered (to determine whether the problem originates from pituitary gland or testes).

I'm doubting deca is on the cards lol. It's not how the endo was talking (he was referring to testosterone only if the the test reconfirms). Deca doesn't appeared to be prescribed by doctors for HRT for people with hypogonadism at least in Australia.
 
its ok, it would have been extra sweet if a nudge of deca was added


but Test Only will be excellent so long ad the dose is high enough per week
 
OMEGA said:
its ok, it would have been extra sweet if a nudge of deca was added


but Test Only will be excellent so long ad the dose is high enough per week
Click to expand...

Is there much research of deca being used for people with hypogonadism as opposed to AIDS patients?

I'd love to show it to my Endo.

I couldn't find anything on it being used as part of HRT by doctors in AUS but will do further research
 
Well, my second test was still clinically low (below confidence intervals), but not as low.

So doctor wanted a retest and MRI.

Fucked off.

He's thinking of ascribing the test levels - despite being outside the usual range - to depression and won't prescribe as a consequence.

I will find out on 17 April.

Basically, this could be the end of me and weights if I'm forced to have permanently clinically low tests
 
keep looking till you find a liberl clinic

DO NOT STOP till you find one that will give you at least 200 mgs of Test E a week
 
Yes, I am not giving up.

My GP has said me may prescribe even if the endo doesn't, and I guess if he doesn't, I can see a less consevative endo.

I have even posted on bodybuilding.com lol if anyone knows in Australia a less conservative endo
 
Omega: the endo is completely dismissive of the idea that finasteride may have caused my hypergonadism. The annoying thing there are people on the net complaining about the exact same symptoms I have.

I think he just looks at me and thinks "no bitch tits...reasonable muscles...testosterone is not too low". It is really frustrating.

His reasoning "depression causes tesosterone deficiency" is curious - I have also read the reverse.

The thing is I know I am far physically inferior to when I was younger. I can feel my extreme dizziness when I played tennis, the general constant fatigue/weakness. When I was 17 I did weights for 3 months and could do 40 (close grip underhand chins). If only I could do that now - after hardcore training, as opposed to haphazard training.

It really shits me off. Have had enough.

Sorry to rant.
 
"depression causes testosterone deficiency" he thinks that?

thats fucking INSANE ;its akin to saying a car does not run cause driving causes it run out of Gas, therefor don't drive lol.

the CAR need GAS! the Body needs TESTOSTERONE!! WTF!
 
I just read a bit about your HRT issues. I know it sucks. I got tested a couple of years ago and I was just a couple of points into "normal". So as far as the doc was concerned, I was normal, case closed. Fast forward a couple of years and I went in again (to a different doc). This time I was well below normal. I've been on HRT for about 7 months now and I love it. My endo has worked to find my optimal level and that is 100mg per week. I tried to get her to nudge it up to 150mg/week but it took my levels above "normal". Oh well. Better some than none.

Don't expect to blow up like a bodybuilder when/if you go on HRT. It has definitely helped me, but the change wasn't as drastic as I'd hoped. HRT just did what it was supposed to do for me, which was bring me up to normal. But I can say my energy and mood have increased A LOT!

Keep looking for a sympathetic endo/doc. It's worth it.
 
its drastic once you go past 250-300 a week range

but Axe you got a script, so thats a success. it is now ok for you to get black market Test to "supplement" the 100 you use now :)
 
OMEGA said:
its drastic once you go past 250-300 a week range

but Axe you got a script, so thats a success. it is now ok for you to get black market Test to "supplement" the 100 you use now :)
Click to expand...

If I don't get anything from a doctor in the next 6 weeks I will go on the black market for HRT, or perhaps a full cycle.

I just want to see how I feel - not just muscle gain but principally energy levels/concentration - with normal test. The full cycle would be more for muscle gain obviously.

These normal test levels are a joke anyway - I mean dumping all adult males in the same range. I would like to be better than an 80 year old lol.
 
desmond said:
If I don't get anything from a doctor in the next 6 weeks I will go on the black market for HRT, or perhaps a full cycle.

I just want to see how I feel - not just muscle gain but principally energy levels/concentration - with normal test. The full cycle would be more for muscle gain obviously.

These normal test levels are a joke anyway - I mean dumping all adult males in the same range. I would like to be better than an 80 year old lol.
Click to expand...

That's what pissed me off too!! Normal for an old man should not be normal me me. But the medical community has drawn a line in the sand. I would not advise this since it would be unethical, but... if you went on a prohormone such as P-plex for a couple of weeks, went cold turkey and then got re-tested 2-3 weeks after that, you would probably drop the last couple of points.
 
axemurderer said:
That's what pissed me off too!! Normal for an old man should not be normal me me. But the medical community has drawn a line in the sand. I would not advise this since it would be unethical, but... if you went on a prohormone such as P-plex for a couple of weeks, went cold turkey and then got re-tested 2-3 weeks after that, you would probably drop the last couple of points.
Click to expand...

We don't have legal pro-hormones in Australia

At this stage I have no real aas connections. My brother use to be friends with one of the head producers in Adelaide, but they are no longer on speaking terms.

I have one other friend who is a reasonable connection but is heading to the US for holiday on a couple of days.
 
come on vacation to the USA ship your self some AAS to a US adress then ship it to AUS

let me know if you come to the states
 
i like it how doctors will dish out benzos/ect but are so against giving someone hrt when they need it.
 
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