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The Shadow
Guest
JKurz1 said:
yep.....2x per day is too much imo
I would prefer to see you on 5 x 5 - or my Old School program 3x per week
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yep.....2x per day is too much imo
I would prefer to see you on 5 x 5 - or my Old School program 3x per week
Tweakle
New member
here's a good leg routine that I'm sure you won't be using twice a week or once every 5 days.
squats, 3-5 sets of 5 or one set of 20 r/p
GHR, 3 sets of 5
calf raises, 3 sets of 5
add weight to the bar each week, eat steak & pizza, fire trainer. This is like watching my famous skinny spotter train, he knows best & absolutely 'has' to do lots of sets because that's how you get big.
squats, 3-5 sets of 5 or one set of 20 r/p
GHR, 3 sets of 5
calf raises, 3 sets of 5
add weight to the bar each week, eat steak & pizza, fire trainer. This is like watching my famous skinny spotter train, he knows best & absolutely 'has' to do lots of sets because that's how you get big.
JKurz1
Banned
The Shadow said:
ok.....ill do it....after this week....give the low down. Will I keep my cals the same? Minus the pw shake? Man, the weight is gonna pour on doing nothing for 4 days.....just hope its clean! Tell me having low test will play no part in the excess cals being stored as fat and no gains in the gym.....cranking the intensity and eating big will have it bounce back, right? Also on a-dex, tonga ali...
JKurz1 said:
Jesus man. Weight doesn't pour on in four days. It takes weeks, months, even years for the weight to pour on. Do you think the fat obese slob went from 140-300 overnight? God no. It takes years. And for someone in your shoes, you could do that but it would be largely muscle after some initial fat gains.
silver_shadow
New member
so which way will you be going JK? old school or 5x5 or maybe even HST... all good sound programs IMO.
JKurz1 said:
1) 3500 calories would seem to be an ideal starting point.
2) Yes they should come back over time, and if they do not, then at least you know.
3) Yes excess calories will lead to fat gain, but they also lead to muscle gain.
4) You cannot have the best of both worlds at once when you are trying to form a foundation for a physique. In other words, don't count on keeping your abs while you build Rome. It usually takes a tonne of steroids, elite genetics, or a huge foundation to be able to maintain both at once.
JKurz1
Banned
Yesterday was a decent day, low carbs for some reason I missed two meals and the scale showed it...I was 165 yesterday am and 164 today. I only got in my pw shake of oats, dex and whey and then cottage cheese with almonds and a shake from 630 to 930 when I really should have had two more meals. Plus, I subbed in 2/3 cup oats for my 4oz pasta in my third meal, which was lower in cals, I think. All else stayed the same. Abs look good this morning, NOW I need to stop looking in the mirror. I am bulking, not cutting damn it.
Yesterdays am session was bis...pr on str8 bar curls.
PM was chest and where I failed last week at 65lb dbells at 4 for two sets....I got 65lbs last night for 3 good sets of 7. Done after that....all my other lifts stayed the same. Delts are sore. I need a day off tomorrow!
This morning was tris and abs followed by 15 min inclne walk. 1hr, went pretty well.
1st meal
3/4 cup oats
1/2 cup oat puffs
1 scoop whey
6 egg whites, skim and coffee
2nd meal is one of my favorites. Hard boiled egg whites in my cold 1 cup oats, 1/4 cup dry to munch on.......
Yesterdays am session was bis...pr on str8 bar curls.
PM was chest and where I failed last week at 65lb dbells at 4 for two sets....I got 65lbs last night for 3 good sets of 7. Done after that....all my other lifts stayed the same. Delts are sore. I need a day off tomorrow!
This morning was tris and abs followed by 15 min inclne walk. 1hr, went pretty well.
1st meal
3/4 cup oats
1/2 cup oat puffs
1 scoop whey
6 egg whites, skim and coffee
2nd meal is one of my favorites. Hard boiled egg whites in my cold 1 cup oats, 1/4 cup dry to munch on.......
T
The Shadow
Guest
to take some pressure away for the weighing process....
weigh yourself JUST before bed....not in the am...there are a couple of reason to do this
weigh yourself JUST before bed....not in the am...there are a couple of reason to do this
JKurz1
Banned
I do it 2x a week in the am....that way it remains constant.....my weight fluctuate 7-8lbs between am and night from all the food and water....same principle, just want to stay consistent......dont think I should dropped a pound this early though...but its prob. missing the damn meals@
T
The Shadow
Guest
JKurz1 said:
YOu missed my point....
the reason most rec. weight in the am is that its your LOWEST weight of the day - most people diet to lose....hence the am weight.
Weighing before bed is JUST as consistent but allows you to ensure that you arent dehydrated etc.
If you want to play the game - play it all the way and be consistent - weight yourself before bed.
silver_shadow
New member
1 lb wt difference from not eating would probably have been nothing but food in your digestive tract which wouldn't have translated into a 1lb gain in muscle mass. plus there are weight flucuations anyway due to a vast number of reasons. so stop obsessing over weight changes over a few hrs. at the end of the day, if you're getting stronger and you're eating a surplus of cals anyway, so you WILL gain muscle.
JKurz1
Banned
Tomorrow is my off day...Hate friggn off days almost as much as I love em. My body needs a freakin break, awesome back session today. i hate em cause I only get carbs in my first 4 meals and then its all protein after 3ish...and fats. you guys do this on off days? maybe if I do some cardio I can make em all carbs...man I love my oats and pasta!!!
BiggT said:
exactly, some people have more carbs on off days as an aid to recovery and to be already firing for the next day.
JKurz1
Banned
I did 35 minutes of light am cardio, followed by abs....today, = no weights.....cardio is done, so now its just relax and eat.....I did replace my am oats meal with a flax/whey shake and 6 egg whites....I'm going with a good wholesome carb meal in my second meal and then all fiberous carbs, i.e. veggies for the rest of the day......u think I should have carbs in my third meal too? Maybe just a half cup of quick oats?
JKurz1
Banned
Whelp, just for kicks, I weighed in today...won't do it again for a week, but just wanted to see where I was and average it out. Down another pound. SImply put, I am not eating the foods I should be as constructed by my guru. I was up a solid 9-10lbs and now am rapidly decreasing. So, at 6'2, 170 I've decided that I am going to either run a good mild cycle of 300mg cyp and 400mg of eq or just the old fashion 200mg hrt dose till I blow out the two botlles I have. Then, I am going to do a pct of prov, clomid, hcg and nolva. THEN, I am going to stay clean and get rechecked by my doc. I know I am low, very low. This is causing me to not eat what I should because I know that having low testosterone levels leads to sub. fat storage and is very discouraging. This will allow me to hopefully pack on 20lbs thats my goal, to get my energy and life back. And allow my mind to settle knowing that I have enough test running through me to make serious gains as long as I eat my ass off. I know I can eat the 4,000+ CALS IF I am confidedent my levels are up to snuff. Muscle memory will come back and I should feel good. Will you guys support one of my decisions? I am praying the pct will restart me and I'll be good to go....breaking my training and eating probs.....guys? Shawdow? Last time.....will u support this decision or am I ruining my life? If you say the latter, I will in fact wait......but I just wont bulk with as many cals......my training has been intense and awesome and so has my diet for the most part....I just need to get those extra meals in and settle my mind......please?
BiggT
New member
JK, you answered your own question. It is in your mind. You "know your levels are low"....how? Did you draw blood and analyze it?
The point is that you're mind fucking yourself.....eat the 4200 cals and continue improving in the gym, don't worry about carbs on off days and steroid cycles and HRT and PCT or any of that crap....if you are dying to, go to the doc and get your hormone levels tested, it probably isn't as bad as you think. Lets play the common sense game.....Can you still have a hard-on? Do you take notice of attractive women and sometimes have not so pure thoughts about them? lol....if the anwers to these 2 questions are 'yes' then your body is certainly producing testosterone, so chill out.
The point is that you're mind fucking yourself.....eat the 4200 cals and continue improving in the gym, don't worry about carbs on off days and steroid cycles and HRT and PCT or any of that crap....if you are dying to, go to the doc and get your hormone levels tested, it probably isn't as bad as you think. Lets play the common sense game.....Can you still have a hard-on? Do you take notice of attractive women and sometimes have not so pure thoughts about them? lol....if the anwers to these 2 questions are 'yes' then your body is certainly producing testosterone, so chill out.
JKurz1
Banned
I WAS TESTED Awhile back..u know this....you want the truth? My hard ons SUCK....I go limp sometimes...sure I love attracted women, but I havent had a gf since I broke up with my last one 7 months ago....I dont think about sex often, and the worst part??? I have absolutely no sperm during ejaculation...Im not mind fing myself bro....I think we botrh can agree I need this to get on the ball.....thoughts?BiggT said:
JKurz1
Banned
no prob...test a year ago, but nothing has changed except my weight dropped....I gained a few lbs on the new diet, then people started to wo me with the low test = fat ain thing....so now my weight is going down again....I just need the boost...I think it can only have positive effects!
T
The Shadow
Guest
BiggT said:
I think ultimately K will do what he wants to do.
You might as well hit a moderate cycle
I still think there's something wrong with your reasoning, JK. You've admitted you're not following your diet plan correctly. I'm not seeing how the logic flows directly to 'begin cycle' instead of 'work on eating habits'.
Though I've posted for holding off, I'm not against a basic test cycle. I agree it could be useful in terms of libido, fat storage, and appetite. What I think is wrong, though, is ignoring the basic problem. Everyone knows diet is a major cornerstone of progress, moreso than aas. Everyone who's spent an amount of time here at EF knows that if your diet is wrong, your cycle will be wrong. Before you start, make the commitment to common sense and get first things first.
Though I've posted for holding off, I'm not against a basic test cycle. I agree it could be useful in terms of libido, fat storage, and appetite. What I think is wrong, though, is ignoring the basic problem. Everyone knows diet is a major cornerstone of progress, moreso than aas. Everyone who's spent an amount of time here at EF knows that if your diet is wrong, your cycle will be wrong. Before you start, make the commitment to common sense and get first things first.
JKurz1
Banned
my diet is right...my diet is well constrcted and I was being stupid/irrational. Think of it as 4,000 cals and someone like me gets weary...think of the oavg. fat sedetary person, they have no idea what they eat and I'm sure it's close and a bunch of shit...my diet is 99% clean...how can it be detremental? I may swing a small test cycle if I can stay on this diet to a tee for awhile FIRST....I gained a good 3lbs the first week then started reading shit about fat storage and low test...that is what brought me down....I may have an eating disorder....but I never had one till I started reading these f-ing boards. This truly is the only board where I know I will get support and very good knowledge...the other ones (nameless) I visit for reads give me different answers for the same question. Another reason why I have a tendency to ask a ? over and over...I want a consensus...thnx boys...Im back on track...just as long as I get my fing kitchen sink clogg fixed...please dont cost a fortunre! lol
When I do a small cycle , say for 10 weeks, pct, rest then tested by doc...what should I do?
300mg test/wk and 400mg eq divided into 2 doses a week....what about prop at 100mg then three days later cyp at 200mg...300mg a week....
When I do a small cycle , say for 10 weeks, pct, rest then tested by doc...what should I do?
300mg test/wk and 400mg eq divided into 2 doses a week....what about prop at 100mg then three days later cyp at 200mg...300mg a week....
OK- all I'm saying is eating takes a great deal of dedication. You don't skip leg day, back day, cardio, etc. Eating everything you're supposed to is just as important. Show some steel and pound down your food like you mean it.
ProtienFiend
New member
JKurz1 said:
This can be stress, poor nutrition, or psychological... amoung other things.
ProtienFiend
New member
JKurz1 said:
You have no business doing a cycle now because youll crash and be worse off then where you started. You really need to all out bulk and get FAT!!! You can always diet it off especially if you are as ecto as you say.
This is basically the classic distraction to avoid confronting the core issue. We all do this in life. It's actually where just about every bad issue and habit comes from. Chronic overeaters feed themselves to feel better and not think about their problems. Alcohol, drugs, just about everything - even keeping the house clean. The problem is that you can run and you can plug your ears and go 'lalalal' as loud as you can in the process, but eventually no matter how far you run and for how long you can't get away from it. You are running from yourself and eventually, you just need to stop running and playing games, sit down, get calm, center yourself, take an objective look and deal with it. Maybe you have to do that every day, multiple times a day so you don't listen to your head/mind games and you do what you are supposed to be doing (deliberate actions, not being controlled by random drifty thought). It's not like the problem is going anywhere. You'll have to face it sometime. So you can run, or you can turn, stand your ground, and fight. Now or later, you'll have to fight sometime anyway. You might get beat down a bit from time to time, but get back up and keep swinging. Maybe get counceling or help to see it more clearly or advice on tackling this particular issue.fortunatesun said:I still think there's something wrong with your reasoning, JK. You've admitted you're not following your diet plan correctly. I'm not seeing how the logic flows directly to 'begin cycle' instead of 'work on eating habits'.
Though I've posted for holding off, I'm not against a basic test cycle. I agree it could be useful in terms of libido, fat storage, and appetite. What I think is wrong, though, is ignoring the basic problem. Everyone knows diet is a major cornerstone of progress, moreso than aas. Everyone who's spent an amount of time here at EF knows that if your diet is wrong, your cycle will be wrong. Before you start, make the commitment to common sense and get first things first.
anotherbutters
New member
Exactly. Very well put madcow. JK, if you want concensus on things, I back every letter of what madcow just said. Read it and re-read it, then read it again. I think he's articulated what all of us were thinking but didn't put down in words.
blut wump
New member
I just read through pretty much all of this thread. First of all congratulations on your progress. You seem to have made some solid steps forward in a reasonably short time.
Just stop beating yourself up and embrace your goals. Time and again I see comments along the lines of "I know I'm being crazy but...". Just drop the 'but' and accept that you know that sometimes your actions are not in your own best interests. When you catch yourself acting against your own best interests just ask yourself the simple question of whether you want to move forwards or go backwards. If you decide that you'd prefer to move backwards then continue with your action. Learn to catch your bad moments and see them for what they are.
Regarding the aas cycle, you've spent a couple of weeks deciding not to run a cycle while filling your drawer with gear. Give the plan a chance to work before picking holes in it and jumping onto another plan. What are you going to do when you're two weeks into your cycle and the gains haven't begun? Stop jumping around from plan to plan and see this exercise and diet part of your self-improvement through to a reasonable conclusion.
Just stop beating yourself up and embrace your goals. Time and again I see comments along the lines of "I know I'm being crazy but...". Just drop the 'but' and accept that you know that sometimes your actions are not in your own best interests. When you catch yourself acting against your own best interests just ask yourself the simple question of whether you want to move forwards or go backwards. If you decide that you'd prefer to move backwards then continue with your action. Learn to catch your bad moments and see them for what they are.
Regarding the aas cycle, you've spent a couple of weeks deciding not to run a cycle while filling your drawer with gear. Give the plan a chance to work before picking holes in it and jumping onto another plan. What are you going to do when you're two weeks into your cycle and the gains haven't begun? Stop jumping around from plan to plan and see this exercise and diet part of your self-improvement through to a reasonable conclusion.
silver_shadow
New member
JK, let me put it this way - you have low test right now due to so many possible reasons, not the least of which is overtraining and undereating for years. if you jump on the AAS bandwagon now, that is going to be a temporary fix. lets assume you do go this way - you will then maybe gain 10-12 quality lbs of muscle. very good. now you come off. you are going to crash in a HUGE way in all probability. what happens then? answer - you will likely lose everything you gained. PLUS your endo test levels might well be at a new low, with possibly greater HPTA shutdown then ever before. now what are you going to do? you're already quite depressed in general - you're going to get more depressed and get back on cycle sooner rather then later. see what i'm getting at - your quick fix is going to set you back even further and you will be dependent on AAS.
the position you have put yourself in there are 3 options:
1) do nothing - ie give up bodybuilding altogether... i know you're not going to do that. so it will definitely be either:
2) the quick fix - AAS. OR
3) be strong willed and fight it out - some things in life DO NOT come easy and in this case you know what it is. there's no escaping that this is the only way to do it.
so the choice is your's - i hope you make a wise informed decision
the position you have put yourself in there are 3 options:
1) do nothing - ie give up bodybuilding altogether... i know you're not going to do that. so it will definitely be either:
2) the quick fix - AAS. OR
3) be strong willed and fight it out - some things in life DO NOT come easy and in this case you know what it is. there's no escaping that this is the only way to do it.
so the choice is your's - i hope you make a wise informed decision
JKurz1
Banned
Thanks for all the support and posts...I am not running from the problem, I am attempting to conquer it....I know my test levels right now are nil. So the best scenerio would be to run a pct and see where I stand. My other option is to run a small cycle with a proper pct and then get tested. Trust me, Im not looking for a temp. fix but a perm one. One that will allow me to eat, train and be happy.
I think overall, a SMALL test cycle will allow me to eat the calories required without the fear of geting too fat. I know my low test and this amount of cals will lead to nothing but fat gain with a minimal amount of mass. Sort of like a woman. They dont have nearly as much test as we are suppose to and therefor cant gain mass. I am in the same ballpark right now. SO what I am going to do is run a small cycle followed by a very on point pct and hope that I restart natty. Then get tested. If everything is up to par, I will promise to never touch gear again. If I make that promise, will u guys support it? COuld you tell me your thoughts on the best possible and safest way to cycle it for 10 weeks followed my a good pct.
300mg test split between prop and cyp
400mg eq/ week 10 weeks
hcg, clomid and nola on hand. Thanks bros....
I think overall, a SMALL test cycle will allow me to eat the calories required without the fear of geting too fat. I know my low test and this amount of cals will lead to nothing but fat gain with a minimal amount of mass. Sort of like a woman. They dont have nearly as much test as we are suppose to and therefor cant gain mass. I am in the same ballpark right now. SO what I am going to do is run a small cycle followed by a very on point pct and hope that I restart natty. Then get tested. If everything is up to par, I will promise to never touch gear again. If I make that promise, will u guys support it? COuld you tell me your thoughts on the best possible and safest way to cycle it for 10 weeks followed my a good pct.
300mg test split between prop and cyp
400mg eq/ week 10 weeks
hcg, clomid and nola on hand. Thanks bros....
anotherbutters
New member
Un-fucking-believable.
Get yourself tested, then you know where you stand right now, not where you stood a year ago. Keep eating. Keep training.
Get yourself tested, then you know where you stand right now, not where you stood a year ago. Keep eating. Keep training.
silver_shadow
New member
IMO you're going to crash bad after a cycle at this stage. so there's only way - don't cycle... build up your test levels slowly and naturally - if it means gaining a little fat on the way so be it - in any case, low or high endo test, you will still gain fat during a bulk.JKurz1 said:
ok here's a suggestion - you mentioned you were tested a year ago. now why don't you get tested sometime soon (like sometime within a week from now). follow your diet - high cals and workout with intensity for 2 mths. then after 2 months check your test levels again. what do you say - is that possible? you should see a positive swing in your levels...
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blut wump
New member
You can get fat or fatter on test. It helps with nutrient partitioning but it's not some miracle, wonder potion. You are also likely to bloat which will confound the situation even more.
Have you tried herbals? I find tribulus and maca make a significant difference to me. Tongkat Ali and avena sativa come well-reputed, too.
Until you have put in a couple of months on this natural course, don't even think about your drawer-full of synthetic hormones.
Have you tried herbals? I find tribulus and maca make a significant difference to me. Tongkat Ali and avena sativa come well-reputed, too.
Until you have put in a couple of months on this natural course, don't even think about your drawer-full of synthetic hormones.
JKurz1
Banned
BEEN EATING WELL these last couple of weeks minus the dextrose which was making me sort of ill……also, the bloat was a little rough so have decdied to reduce the fiber a tax (i.e. oats) and nix the ww products (pasta) and go with brown rice and yams for a few meals. Will be starting 250mg a week tomorrow. Up 10lbs, goal is to pack on another 10-15lbs, making sure to NOT miss a meal, nix the 2x a day workouts and just train heay and hard. Sunday will be 2 cheat meals replacing two of my normal scheduled meals. Breakfast and dinner. 125mg of cyp on Fridays, 125mg on Tuesdays and then a proper pct in 10 weeks of 50mg clomid/nolva and 500 hcg,. Then get retested a hope all is ok.
Thursday (traps, calves, abs, forearms) 530 am
Meal 1
1 cup oats
12 egg whites
½ cup skim
Meal 2
¾ cup oats
¼ cup oat bran (BLOATEDDDD!)
2 scoops casein blend, egg whites and skim
Meal 3
6 oz lean beef and chx
HUGE salad and veggies
Either a 6oz yam or ½ cup cooked brown rice….yet to be decided, thoughts?
Thursday (traps, calves, abs, forearms) 530 am
Meal 1
1 cup oats
12 egg whites
½ cup skim
Meal 2
¾ cup oats
¼ cup oat bran (BLOATEDDDD!)
2 scoops casein blend, egg whites and skim
Meal 3
6 oz lean beef and chx
HUGE salad and veggies
Either a 6oz yam or ½ cup cooked brown rice….yet to be decided, thoughts?
T
The Shadow
Guest
I have said this 1000 times........taking ANY amount of test will NOT IMPROVE YOUR HPTA
you need to realize that
you need to realize that
BiggT
New member
JK, good luck with that....the bottom line is you're a 30 year old man and you're free to do whatever it is you please. Keep posting though, I'd like to follow along and offer any support, and I'll be curious to see the progress. Just see it through though and don't freak out in 10lbs and go on some gay starvation diet.
JKurz1 said:
you are asking for thoughts on wether you should eat brown rice or yam? WTF?
You got all the input, knowledge and support from shadow, tony, bw, madcow and others you need to find your way back to a steadier training, eating, living style.
Why do you ask anyway? It is not going to change a darn thing because you are not listing to sense at all.
Every page in this log was a thread itself, you post a diet plan plus some work out stuff, ask for advice and support, people help you, tell you what to do and what not. After some back forth you agree with them and a day later you post that you did the exact same thing you wanted to do in the first place. I seriously doubt that anyone on EF can help you with your real problems and these are definitely not the low test level or missing a meal.
Protobuilder
New member
JKurz1 said:
You aren't stepping on stage tomorrow, so why worry about retaining a bit of water or whatever from your fiber? It's such a small, irrelevant bump in the road that it's not even a bump. It's a nothing. Irrelevant. Eat and be happy.
This sounds like a dreadful breakfast. A half cup of milk? WTF? I've got a better idea: 3 whole eggs + 3 whites, a slice of cheese, and 2 Eggo Whole-Grain waffles w/ a dash of sugarfree syrup. Yum.
On the flip side, if these are your biggest concerns in life, you've got a pretty charmed life! LoL
JKurz1
Banned
where did I say anything about water retention? I said bloat....bloat meaning my lower stomach is painfully swole from the oats....is that ok?Protobuilder said:
I forgot the 2 scoops casein in meal #1, it's in the am and I am rushed....plus, I just don't mix fats and carbs......p/c or p/f is how I go.....
I went with the garden salad in meal #3, pretty good size damn salad with a ton of veggies....
alex2678
New member
JK, your diet is so low in fat right now. Will you at least considered doing what a lot of the people on here have been telling you and try a higher fat diet? Cholesterol itself is the most basic prohormone. Right now it looks like you're following a diet taken out of FLEX magazine from 1994 with the 60.30/10 c/p/f ratio. Try to center your diet around whole eggs, fatty red meat, milk and whole eggs and then have your testosterone levels checked to see what's going on. I promise you will not gain fat.
JKurz1
Banned
I get most of my fats in from dead animals (I eat the 90% leabn beef) , eggs, and a ton of nuts/almonds before bed. Plus, I add flax to my shakes....serious question though....If I do the cycle.......I just want to know if this is rational:
Has anyone done a low dose cycle, say 250mg test, made good gains, did a proper pct and been ok for good? Maybe a good clean 10-15lbs on a 99% clean diet? Thoughts? Why go higher if it really isnt needed....just a boost, a feel good boost........
Has anyone done a low dose cycle, say 250mg test, made good gains, did a proper pct and been ok for good? Maybe a good clean 10-15lbs on a 99% clean diet? Thoughts? Why go higher if it really isnt needed....just a boost, a feel good boost........
BiggT
New member
JK, don't worry about brown rice or the yam....you're 6'2"...you're not an 11 year old female gymnast, like Blut Wump said, eat them both if you want.....at least eat 2 potatoes, preferable with butter......these minor details make up so little of your overall progress in the grand scheme of things.
I haven't said much about the micromanaged diet because it is MUCH better than starving yourself on 2000 cals a day......I didn't say much about the twice a day workout and excess fluff iso movements because at least you were training progressively and it was better than what you were doing......I didn't say much other than personal experiences with the AAS because I really don't consider myself all that knowledgable on them......I am very supportive of you because you are making a change for the better and I can see it is difficult and your mind does play games with you.......bodybuilding/lifting weights is filled with myths, bullshit, sales pitches, and conflicting advice, so I understand your frustrations as well. While not an AAS expert, I know that your thinking is to do a sensible cycle so you don't have to worry about "getting fat", then do the PCT and hopefully you'll be functioning properly.....but, taking synthetic testosterone will in NO way stimulate the body to produce it naturally. With the little background I know of you, I would guess that low test levels are from CHRONIC overtraining and malnourishment, and I would guess stress, which is very catabolic in and of itself.....you need to fix the problem at the root, lift right, eat enough (not a BS bodybuilding diet, which believe it or not are infamous in athletic circles for contributing to malnourishment due to an idiotic lack of variety and essential nutrients.....instead, eat like you're trying to grow hair on your chest).
What you've got is this.....you're in the middle of the ocean, and you're in a boat with a hole in it that is filling with water. What you're doing is scooping out the water each and every time the boat starts to sink....what you need to do is patch the damn hole so you can actually get the boat to go someplace.
I haven't said much about the micromanaged diet because it is MUCH better than starving yourself on 2000 cals a day......I didn't say much about the twice a day workout and excess fluff iso movements because at least you were training progressively and it was better than what you were doing......I didn't say much other than personal experiences with the AAS because I really don't consider myself all that knowledgable on them......I am very supportive of you because you are making a change for the better and I can see it is difficult and your mind does play games with you.......bodybuilding/lifting weights is filled with myths, bullshit, sales pitches, and conflicting advice, so I understand your frustrations as well. While not an AAS expert, I know that your thinking is to do a sensible cycle so you don't have to worry about "getting fat", then do the PCT and hopefully you'll be functioning properly.....but, taking synthetic testosterone will in NO way stimulate the body to produce it naturally. With the little background I know of you, I would guess that low test levels are from CHRONIC overtraining and malnourishment, and I would guess stress, which is very catabolic in and of itself.....you need to fix the problem at the root, lift right, eat enough (not a BS bodybuilding diet, which believe it or not are infamous in athletic circles for contributing to malnourishment due to an idiotic lack of variety and essential nutrients.....instead, eat like you're trying to grow hair on your chest).
What you've got is this.....you're in the middle of the ocean, and you're in a boat with a hole in it that is filling with water. What you're doing is scooping out the water each and every time the boat starts to sink....what you need to do is patch the damn hole so you can actually get the boat to go someplace.
BiggT
New member
alex2678 said:
LOL at the '94 FLEX Mag comment.....seriously, I had a theory that the Nubain craze in the late-90's was because people's joints were screaming from an absolutely moronic lack of fat in their diets. Well, that and doing concentration curls from 97 different angles.
blut wump
New member
It doesn't matter much where you're getting your fats from if you're not getting enough. Your diet is deficient in fats. Without a decent quantity of cholesterol to work with, your body is lacking the basic building blocks to make testosterone.
A proper pct will not make you OK for good if you are unable to solve these basic dietary issues. Improve your diet and training and then consider gear. Not the other way around. There are risks to using synthetic hormones, more so to someone who considers his endocrine system to be on the blink anyway.
A proper pct will not make you OK for good if you are unable to solve these basic dietary issues. Improve your diet and training and then consider gear. Not the other way around. There are risks to using synthetic hormones, more so to someone who considers his endocrine system to be on the blink anyway.
JKurz1
Banned
OK….No more bashing….we are bros and I am truly sorry for being hard headed. Let’s keep this real. Please.
Listen to this and tell me if you would stand by me as the proper way to handle.
I have been on this diet to a tee 4200 cals one way or another and have listened to what u have said. I want to be the best I can be and don’t want to jeopardize my health. My test levels have been low for god knows how long, reason I was on androderm and then nothing..no followup, etc. So I am shut down. I feel like shit which is making it really hard to eat. I haven’t done ccardio in weeks…I used to be a cardio freak. My training is now 4x a week…used to be 7. If I stick with this diet and PROMISE to up my fats to the 90-100g range, would I be ok, say in a week, after gaining a clean 15lbs all natty, to run a SMALL SAFE test 250mg cycle with some eq for 10 weeks. THEN THEN hit a nice solid PCT a smart one….then rest and then get tested. I am not going to beat this up any more, and I respect your answer. But please tell me I will make some good gains by doing this then getting checked will let me know where I stand. If its hrt, then so be it. BUT, I will NOT MAKE gains having the test of a girl….I promise to eat my ass off….I PROMISE….to eat a little dirty I promise to quit worrying and just live life, and I know Test will help me ease the mind. Just as long as I know I am above par and now need to feed the juice for it to work…..I can hit 200 again in 10 weeks….I know it……PLEASE boys….tell me the truth! You have all done cycles and you gotta admit some have gotten pretty hairy…mine is safe and mild…very mild!! My diet will be on tract, my rest will be perfect and my fats will be ramped!
Listen to this and tell me if you would stand by me as the proper way to handle.
I have been on this diet to a tee 4200 cals one way or another and have listened to what u have said. I want to be the best I can be and don’t want to jeopardize my health. My test levels have been low for god knows how long, reason I was on androderm and then nothing..no followup, etc. So I am shut down. I feel like shit which is making it really hard to eat. I haven’t done ccardio in weeks…I used to be a cardio freak. My training is now 4x a week…used to be 7. If I stick with this diet and PROMISE to up my fats to the 90-100g range, would I be ok, say in a week, after gaining a clean 15lbs all natty, to run a SMALL SAFE test 250mg cycle with some eq for 10 weeks. THEN THEN hit a nice solid PCT a smart one….then rest and then get tested. I am not going to beat this up any more, and I respect your answer. But please tell me I will make some good gains by doing this then getting checked will let me know where I stand. If its hrt, then so be it. BUT, I will NOT MAKE gains having the test of a girl….I promise to eat my ass off….I PROMISE….to eat a little dirty I promise to quit worrying and just live life, and I know Test will help me ease the mind. Just as long as I know I am above par and now need to feed the juice for it to work…..I can hit 200 again in 10 weeks….I know it……PLEASE boys….tell me the truth! You have all done cycles and you gotta admit some have gotten pretty hairy…mine is safe and mild…very mild!! My diet will be on tract, my rest will be perfect and my fats will be ramped!
T
The Shadow
Guest
blut wump said:
I would try:
Arimidex
Tribulus
Efa's
Clomid
Hcg
...before gear if it were me
ProtienFiend
New member
He's like talking to a brick wall.... I have some advice... 700mg test a week, pct, gain 20lbs, lose 25lbs, get depressed again... come on EF, ask for advice, then not take it....
oh wait thats what you were going to do.
oh wait thats what you were going to do.
silver_shadow
New member
we have done cycles - very true. mild ones too and gotten good results and kept them. now i will speak for myself. there's a difference between you and me - my baseline test was already high, yours isn't. my nuts were therefore not too difficult to fire up fully after the cycle. yours will be even deeper in slumber. so the answer is NO - BAD IDEA to get on cycle now. plz just go for the herbs at this stage or something like shadow suggested - that guy knows his shit when it comes to chemicals. for a start, you could sub in some whole milk and at least 6 whole eggs a day for skim and whites... i said it earlier, get yourself tested NOW, follow this diet and maybe a PCT like shadow suggested and test yourself again after 2 mths.JKurz1 said:
JKurz1
Banned
getting tested at this point is a comp. waste of $. I already know. Its a no brainer. Doing a pct is a good alternative. However a mild dose and then a pct will be even better for my mind, sole, spirit and WEIGHT! I will be very careful, I will train hard, I will rest harder and I will eat the hardest...if anything at all, it'll teach me how to eat and eat till I'm full and then eat some more.........I promised myself I needed to hit every meal on this diet everyday, no exceptions. If I have to eat two meals at once, so be it. If I'm still hungry after a meal, I will eat MORE....
I saw my trainer last night and he is giving me to cheat meals a week plus upping the cals. He is adding rice cakes and jelly into meals, fig newtons, taking out the pasta, adding in sweet potatoes, more oats and MORE FATS......funny.
I saw my trainer last night and he is giving me to cheat meals a week plus upping the cals. He is adding rice cakes and jelly into meals, fig newtons, taking out the pasta, adding in sweet potatoes, more oats and MORE FATS......funny.
silver_shadow
New member
it's not a better alternativeJKurz1 said:
JKurz1
Banned
http://forum.ironmagazine.com/showthread.php?t=53872&highlight=low+testosterone+mass
what I mean by low test and fat storage....
what I mean by low test and fat storage....
blut wump
New member
The conclusions there were more orientated towards test and fat loss rather than extra storage, although we can reasonably assume a correlation there too.
Anyway, I'm at a loss to fathom your point. Are you suggesting that you're medically fat? From everything you've posted, you're still significantly sub-normal with respect to fat levels.
On cycle or off it you will gain some fat as you bulk. At this stage in your training, I'd suggest that it's time to embrace a little fat deposition. Look to the title of the thread and try harder to think less about how your new mass is being distributed. The extra muscle you're growing will play its part, at some future time, in increasing your metabolism to keep everything in an appropriate stasis.
There are some steroids noted for their thermogenic properties but they are not for the novice and are also noted heavily for their suppression. If you need to resolve an issue with your endogenous testosterone production, it is not wise to begin by pummeling it further down with exogenous synthetic hormones; test, boldenone nor any other.
Anyway, I'm at a loss to fathom your point. Are you suggesting that you're medically fat? From everything you've posted, you're still significantly sub-normal with respect to fat levels.
On cycle or off it you will gain some fat as you bulk. At this stage in your training, I'd suggest that it's time to embrace a little fat deposition. Look to the title of the thread and try harder to think less about how your new mass is being distributed. The extra muscle you're growing will play its part, at some future time, in increasing your metabolism to keep everything in an appropriate stasis.
There are some steroids noted for their thermogenic properties but they are not for the novice and are also noted heavily for their suppression. If you need to resolve an issue with your endogenous testosterone production, it is not wise to begin by pummeling it further down with exogenous synthetic hormones; test, boldenone nor any other.
T
The Shadow
Guest
Ok....enough is enough...I'm going to state some FACTS here - that way, opinion does not come into play:
1 - You were chronically overtrained
2 - You are on a routine that lends itself to more overtraining(2 a days).
3 - you posted good gains in a short period
4 - you have basically zero hormonal production
Agreed??
Good.
Now - we know that you ARE gaining(despite the complaints that it is too slow), DESPITE the fucked HPTA.
So...after getting everyone opinion, which was actually pretty much the same to the person, you have decided to do what you wanted to do initally - and that is to hit a cycle.
Fine - your body.
Some other facts:
1 - You WILL pay the fiddler sooner or later where the HPTA is concerned....later is never the better option.
2 - Doing things half assed between two extremes will lead to non-optimal results...low dose DEFEATS the purpose of PCT period.
1 - You were chronically overtrained
2 - You are on a routine that lends itself to more overtraining(2 a days).
3 - you posted good gains in a short period
4 - you have basically zero hormonal production
Agreed??
Good.
Now - we know that you ARE gaining(despite the complaints that it is too slow), DESPITE the fucked HPTA.
So...after getting everyone opinion, which was actually pretty much the same to the person, you have decided to do what you wanted to do initally - and that is to hit a cycle.
Fine - your body.
Some other facts:
1 - You WILL pay the fiddler sooner or later where the HPTA is concerned....later is never the better option.
2 - Doing things half assed between two extremes will lead to non-optimal results...low dose DEFEATS the purpose of PCT period.
JKurz1
Banned
weighed in this am....165lbs...up 20lbs since beginning, abs are faded, bt ethopians have abs at 165 too......eat JEFF..EAT!
FRIDAY AUGUST 4TH, THE NEW BEGINNING (FOR NOW)
WOKE AT 5:30 AND HAD A MY RIPPED FORCE AND 3 BCAA
TRAINED HAMMYS
3 SETS OF EACH 12,10,8
DEADS, GOODMORNINGS, LEG CURL, HACK SQT, FROG LG LEG PRESS
30 MINUTES VERY LOW INT. WALK ON INCLINE 12% TREADMILL (3.0)
decided to wait to after my pm training session for 125mg cyp, 200mg of eq - 10 weeks
will hit every meal…..every single meal!! Got to….plus I got two cheats coming up this weekend
PW SHAKE AT 7:15
1 CUP OATS
12 EG WHITES
1 SCOOP WHEY
1TB OF PB
COFFEE
(FELT LIKE PISS) SO BLOATED, sat on the toilet in the office for 30 minutes
popped 5 dig. Enzymes, and a half of a vicodine (don’t use them often, but I
really felt like my lower abdomen was going to explode)
10am felt better
3/4 cup oats (cold)
in scoop of casein pudiing
scoop of casein protein
9 egg whites
12:30 meal next - either yam or pasta, 8oz beef, large salad
then 300 casein pudding, 10 almonds
430 training chest
FRIDAY AUGUST 4TH, THE NEW BEGINNING (FOR NOW)
WOKE AT 5:30 AND HAD A MY RIPPED FORCE AND 3 BCAA
TRAINED HAMMYS
3 SETS OF EACH 12,10,8
DEADS, GOODMORNINGS, LEG CURL, HACK SQT, FROG LG LEG PRESS
30 MINUTES VERY LOW INT. WALK ON INCLINE 12% TREADMILL (3.0)
decided to wait to after my pm training session for 125mg cyp, 200mg of eq - 10 weeks
will hit every meal…..every single meal!! Got to….plus I got two cheats coming up this weekend
PW SHAKE AT 7:15
1 CUP OATS
12 EG WHITES
1 SCOOP WHEY
1TB OF PB
COFFEE
(FELT LIKE PISS) SO BLOATED, sat on the toilet in the office for 30 minutes
popped 5 dig. Enzymes, and a half of a vicodine (don’t use them often, but I
really felt like my lower abdomen was going to explode)
10am felt better
3/4 cup oats (cold)
in scoop of casein pudiing
scoop of casein protein
9 egg whites
12:30 meal next - either yam or pasta, 8oz beef, large salad
then 300 casein pudding, 10 almonds
430 training chest
BiggT
New member
whoa....165 and up 20lbs?? So, you were 145lbs at 6 freaking 2?????
Anyway, it is your body and you are an adult, so you're free to do with it what you will. Regardless, I'd like to follow your progress, so I hope you keep posting. I gave my opinion along with everyone else. And, Shadow gave you some solid, black and white facts. Your posts are well-worded, good grammar etc, so you're obviously an intelligent guy, a little neurotic and misguided, yes, and in my opinion you're not fixing the problem at the root......but you're clearly not an idiot, and you're clearly smart enough to absorb information, I still think you're picking and choosing what you want to believe, but you're not a child and you'll untimately do what you want to do....so you've been provided with good info and opinions and you made your choice.
One more thing.....I know you said you're careful, but watch those vicodins, man....that stuff is no joke, and being a little bloated and uncomfy is not a valid excuse to take them......If I drank coffee right after a protein shake, I'd be on the shitter for a half hour too, lol.
Anyway, it is your body and you are an adult, so you're free to do with it what you will. Regardless, I'd like to follow your progress, so I hope you keep posting. I gave my opinion along with everyone else. And, Shadow gave you some solid, black and white facts. Your posts are well-worded, good grammar etc, so you're obviously an intelligent guy, a little neurotic and misguided, yes, and in my opinion you're not fixing the problem at the root......but you're clearly not an idiot, and you're clearly smart enough to absorb information, I still think you're picking and choosing what you want to believe, but you're not a child and you'll untimately do what you want to do....so you've been provided with good info and opinions and you made your choice.
One more thing.....I know you said you're careful, but watch those vicodins, man....that stuff is no joke, and being a little bloated and uncomfy is not a valid excuse to take them......If I drank coffee right after a protein shake, I'd be on the shitter for a half hour too, lol.
If the test levels are preoccuping you enough so that every post seems to be about them- it will only ease your mind to get the current levels figured out exactly- not a waste of $.
OK, now to really put this into perspective about how the long term solution might be more important than your short term fix (b/c that’s what it is). You said you have no sperm in your ejaculate…HOLY HELL BRO, did you forget what you need sperm for?
??? Instead of worrying about getting “fat” and not being able to bench 1000kg in 1 week how about you fix your REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM- one more time, and say it with me: r-e-p-r-o-d-u-c-t-i-v-e
Sorry if I have offended or totally crossed the line, I do know exactly what the mentality of an eating disorder is like but...you most certainly have drive and heart so best of luck w/ your diet and training- you deserve it
OK, now to really put this into perspective about how the long term solution might be more important than your short term fix (b/c that’s what it is). You said you have no sperm in your ejaculate…HOLY HELL BRO, did you forget what you need sperm for?
??? Instead of worrying about getting “fat” and not being able to bench 1000kg in 1 week how about you fix your REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM- one more time, and say it with me: r-e-p-r-o-d-u-c-t-i-v-eSorry if I have offended or totally crossed the line, I do know exactly what the mentality of an eating disorder is like but...you most certainly have drive and heart so best of luck w/ your diet and training- you deserve it
JKurz1
Banned
once my diet and weight gain are up to snuff....I think my sperm production will come back....it's all due to my overtraining, which I cut down by the day...used to be 2hrs, 2x a day....turning into 40 mins max, 2x a day...and next week will prob. be 1hr max in the pm only...cardio once a week compared to 7!mightyT44 said:If the test levels are preoccuping you enough so that every post seems to be about them- it will only ease your mind to get the current levels figured out exactly- not a waste of $.
OK, now to really put this into perspective about how the long term solution might be more important than your short term fix (b/c that’s what it is). You said you have no sperm in your ejaculate…HOLY HELL BRO, did you forget what you need sperm for?
Sorry if I have offended or totally crossed the line, I do know exactly what the mentality of an eating disorder is like but...you most certainly have drive and heart so best of luck w/ your diet and training- you deserve it
blut wump
New member
You know, no insult intended but I feel saddened every time I see egg whites mentioned. I'll happily guzzle down a six-egg omelette and a tin of beans with a pint of milk and a quarter of a loaf of bread. Every time I see egg whites mentioned, my first thought is "what about the yolks?"
JKurz1
Banned
Why do you think that is? I mean seriously...I may have an eating disorder which I am slowly beating btw, but I do not and have NEVER had a fear of fats....period. It's carbs that concern me.....I could snack on nuts all day....hell, prebed, i mean on my pillow laying down...I am eating 3-4 handfulls of almonds....cottage cheese, etc.....never look at fat grams.......
o a side note.....what pct protocol do you reccomend? I need to mae sure this is perfect cause I pray I start up again and everything is good to go....no more gear...promise! If my weight increases and my pct hits home and I'm tested (even in the middle of the park) I will never touch em again...then I can just maintain and go with the flow! SPeaking of flow, I know this will also help my sperm volume.....thats purely from anorexia~!
o a side note.....what pct protocol do you reccomend? I need to mae sure this is perfect cause I pray I start up again and everything is good to go....no more gear...promise! If my weight increases and my pct hits home and I'm tested (even in the middle of the park) I will never touch em again...then I can just maintain and go with the flow! SPeaking of flow, I know this will also help my sperm volume.....thats purely from anorexia~!
SgtSlaughter
New member
STFU!!!!alex2678 said:Classic Triple w Cheese, Baked Potato, 2 tall glasses of milk taken from the company refrigerator. (To be used ONLY in coffee) Fuck'em.
LOL!!
NICE bro
... classic triple w/ cheese. No doubt!What I ate/still eating for "lunch":
1 PB & J : whole grain bread, ANPB, sugar free ras (can't help myself, lol)
about 8 oz. chicken breast: with ketchup on top of course for flavour.
16 oz. whole lactose free milk
... all done.
I'm still hungry
Last edited:
anotherbutters
New member
Lunch: some kind of mexican bean salad in a tortilla wrap with a banana and a quart of full fat milk, followed 2 hours later by another banana and a quart of semi-skimmed milk. Everyone at work seems to think I'm obsessed with milk.
JKurz1
Banned
See, thats the difference between this board and me...my goal is to build a bodybuilding physique....looking at your diets and training....you guys are more concerned with strength...which is cool, best of both worlds, but that's where I get my crazy nutritional habits.....measuring shit and weighing shit......are any of you under 10%? I know u dont care, just curious...
SgtSlaughter
New member
JKurz1 said:
I'm 13% @ 201.0lbs ... 6'0"
... started out skinny fat 160 lbs bro.
I never got overly analytical with weighing foods, ect.... i prolly will have to to drop into lower BF %, and that's fine.
My point: I do care. I AM concerned with building a bodybuilding physique. It takes time... can't be overly OCD about everytihng all the time. I'd rather focus on other things in life.
And... most of all I LOVE FOOD
lol
JKurz1
Banned
right on...for me, its what the weekends are for!! Cant wait til sunday, cept I do love most of my foods during the week....sweet potatoes/yams and rice are whatever, but oats are awesome! Love my pw meal and shake....love my cc and almonds prebed........sgtslaughter said:I'm 13% @ 201.0lbs ... 6'0"
... started out skinny fat 160 lbs bro.
I never got overly analytical with weighing foods, ect.... i prolly will have to to drop into lower BF %, and that's fine.
My point: I do care. I AM concerned with building a bodybuilding physique. It takes time... can't be overly OCD about everytihng all the time. I'd rather focus on other things in life.
And... most of all I LOVE FOOD
lol
alex2678
New member
Sarge. 
to Wendy's.
JK, bodybuilding and strength go hand and hand. You CANNOT be huge without having big lifts under your belt. That's not my opinion it's fact. You mentioned before not being concerned with strength. But honestly there is no way you'll ever get bigger if you're not increasing your bench, squat, deadlift and rows. You don't see bodybuilders maxing out on the bench with 225 pounds.
And these so called "clean" diets are so full of shit. Eat more than you burn and you'll gain weight. I don't care if it's from oats and almonds or steak and milk. What your body does with those excess calories is based on your DNA and overall hormone levels. A lot of people on this board train for strength and have physiques that look more like bodybuilders. Just have to realize that more muscle is the result of more weight added to the bar.
to Wendy's. JK, bodybuilding and strength go hand and hand. You CANNOT be huge without having big lifts under your belt. That's not my opinion it's fact. You mentioned before not being concerned with strength. But honestly there is no way you'll ever get bigger if you're not increasing your bench, squat, deadlift and rows. You don't see bodybuilders maxing out on the bench with 225 pounds.
And these so called "clean" diets are so full of shit. Eat more than you burn and you'll gain weight. I don't care if it's from oats and almonds or steak and milk. What your body does with those excess calories is based on your DNA and overall hormone levels. A lot of people on this board train for strength and have physiques that look more like bodybuilders. Just have to realize that more muscle is the result of more weight added to the bar.
SgtSlaughter
New member
Whatever works for ya bro.
Puttin' down SUPER clean ~ 4,000 cals a day can be tough sometimes.
BiggT
New member
JKurz1 said:
JK...as far as 'bodybuilding'....don't be fooled by the pics in the mags, bodybuilders don't hold that condition year-round....nobody here advised you to get fat and look like mst SHW powerlifters do, but you can't expect to get anywhere staying sub-10% all year long......You should take a trip to Southern Cal where there is a large concentration of Pro BBs and see them stuffing their faces at Taco Bell in the offseason with amounts of garbage I would even think are disgusting, just to get in calories......those guys aren't bulking on boiled chicken and egg whites and the bullshit diets FLEX and Musclemag print off.
I know it may 'look' like it, but when you see a guy who is 270lbs with abs....he dieted down to that condition, he didn't go from 180 with abs to 270 with abs micromanaging every little thing he put in his mouth.....also, this is the hard part for you....calories are calories.....if X amount of excess calories makes you store fat, it doesn't matter if that X amount comes from tuna or from pork rinds.
Protobuilder
New member
alex2678 said:
Great paragraph. JK -- BB'ing is chock full of myths and circle jerking. Everyone's micromanaging their chromium intake when, in the end, it makes up maybe .0001% of their overall progress. It can be hard to break out of that mentality, but sooner or later you'll hopefully realize that the BB'ing voodoo is just that -- voodoo. That's why guys are raving about how great the gains are on "New! Improved! Supplement XYZ!" when they really have no idea how to track progress. They "feel" great today, and they took Supp. XYZ today, thus they figure they're connected. In 6 months, if they make any progress, it'll be wholly unrelated to Supp. XYZ or their chromium intake. It'll come down to calories in vs. calories out and progressive weight training. The rest is mostly irrelevant, unless you're at contest time and really trying to dial it in.
T
The Shadow
Guest
JKurz1 said:
You *should* be concerned with getting to 210 - then worry about abs.....you cannot carve a pebble
You see my avatar.....this is the fattest I have been in a decade - a year layoff and I'm fairly lean....I was 205 and 7% in that picture - clean - no AI, clen etc....and zero cardio...I was also stong as hell at that weight all things considered.
You can't agrue both sides of the coin.....
you cant say - I want to gain mass
and then say
I want to stay super lean
it does NOT work that way - gear or not.
Tweakle
New member
10%? Don't be silly, it's well known that strength training makes you fatter, you build 'powerlifter muscle' around the midsection.
Out of curiosity, do you ever read any threads here that you didn't start? Seriously, did you read anything at Intense Muscle, or did you just go there to post copies of the same threads you made here?
Out of curiosity, do you ever read any threads here that you didn't start? Seriously, did you read anything at Intense Muscle, or did you just go there to post copies of the same threads you made here?
Tweakle
New member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCft-uNRrbE&mode=related&search=
a weak bodybuilder pumping up
If the guy with the best genes in the world (bar none) and on huge amounts of AAS and growth busts his ass with 500lb benches then why do you think you can magically gain muscle training 'for size' with kiddy weights?
a weak bodybuilder pumping up
If the guy with the best genes in the world (bar none) and on huge amounts of AAS and growth busts his ass with 500lb benches then why do you think you can magically gain muscle training 'for size' with kiddy weights?
BiggT
New member
Great video, Tweakle....I love the part where they show the 'no chalk' sign and Levrone is chalking the hell out of himself and the bar, lol.
Really, though, JK....bodybuilding and strength training should be no different other than the pre-contest phase in bodybuilding. Guys training for strength shouldn't use that as an excuse to walk around at 37% bodyfat and eat twinkies and drink coca-cola....but guys bodybuilding shouldn't use the typical line of bullshit that they don't want to gain weight and lift heavy and that they are trying to target the inner right ass cheek.....guys who do that fall into the trap of spending 5 years micromanaging every trace element they put in their mouth, and they never gain an ounce of bodyweight and are lucky to add a lb a year to any of their lifts.
Really, though, JK....bodybuilding and strength training should be no different other than the pre-contest phase in bodybuilding. Guys training for strength shouldn't use that as an excuse to walk around at 37% bodyfat and eat twinkies and drink coca-cola....but guys bodybuilding shouldn't use the typical line of bullshit that they don't want to gain weight and lift heavy and that they are trying to target the inner right ass cheek.....guys who do that fall into the trap of spending 5 years micromanaging every trace element they put in their mouth, and they never gain an ounce of bodyweight and are lucky to add a lb a year to any of their lifts.
T
The Shadow
Guest
well said......
I mentioned to him earler that if you try to achieve TWO goals at once - you usually achieve neither
I mentioned to him earler that if you try to achieve TWO goals at once - you usually achieve neither
SgtSlaughter
New member
Tweakle... ridiculous vid!! :cheers:
gotta watch it at home... I snuck in some quick peeks and have no audio here, lol.
It's one big viscious cycle the whole "Bodybuilding Industry" ... mainly the magazines and what they promote. Buy supps, isolate muscles, repeat.... do again with different supp and exercise and you're guaranteed to grow
gotta watch it at home... I snuck in some quick peeks and have no audio here, lol.
It's one big viscious cycle the whole "Bodybuilding Industry" ... mainly the magazines and what they promote. Buy supps, isolate muscles, repeat.... do again with different supp and exercise and you're guaranteed to grow
JKurz1 said:
I like the way your trainer thinks. You should carry around some protein bars to snack on during the day.
Eat when you're hungry, not when you've got supersized meals to suddenly deal with. You'll eat more, utilize it more efficiently, and probably control much of that bloating.
There's been two threads recently about Mariusz Pudzianowski's eating habits. They wonder why in the world he eats chocolate bars between 2-a-days and for a late night snack, not to mention 3 lbs. of bacon every morning, etc. Of course he exists in a whole different plane of reality but in one sense he's not that different from you. He's also an intense and high-volume trainer. To eat that way Mariusz's metabolism must be naturally overefficient to begin with. He needs caloric dense foods to maintain his mass and his stamina. You, on the other hand, starve yours. That's why you have fat deposits on your abs along with your POW physique. Your body suddenly receives a surplus and decides it needs to store glycogen now because it may never have the chance to ever again. You need to give yourself a break. Let your metabolic system do what it does best- overefficiently process food- but at a rate large enough to sustain growth.
Instead of test, 15-20 grams of pharmaceutical grade fish oil ed will be sufficient to ward off fat accumulation.
T
The Shadow
Guest
you need to eat even when you ARENT hungry
ProtienFiend
New member
sgtslaughter said:
Most overlooked part of bodybuilding
ProtienFiend
New member
BiggT said:
Those guys are also probably, either on cycle or recently off.... and also on a ton of diuretics... not to mention carb, water, and sodium cycling.
ProtienFiend
New member
The Shadow said:
Small disagreement. It can work that way.. but it will take a long time and discipline. The bodybuilders of old did this. They maintained lower BF year round so when contest time came they didnt have to diet down too much.
The downside is, it takes a long time to get there. You cant change your diet every 4 weeks (JK). These things take time, especially if you want to keep muscle mass and minimal fat gain. Give yourself 6 months then change plans - really.
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