JKurz's Log "Mirrors are all hidden"!

[JKurz1]

every food I eat I truly truly truly LOVE!! Where did you ever get that idea????????/

 

[JKurz1]

Oops, hit send to early...I love my protein shakes mixed with splenda egg whites, oats,....it's honeslty better than any fast food shake made. I love oats cooked, frozen, raw, anyway you look at it....I love peanuts and nuts, yams, sweet potatoes, salads, ostrich, red meat, fish chicken, steaks, LOVE PASTA brown rice......everything on my diet. I truly love! However, the only problem I am having his dealing with the fat fullness feeling, bloated, and atching the scale increase, which I want to happen and then that devil on my shoulder say u dont want it to happen.

This trainer is natioanlly know, as I've said a million times before, but I agree 100%, many trainers dont know jack shit. What don't you like about him? He's keeping me off the cardio (which I am doing undercover 2x a week strictly for my heart, dont care what anyone says, but I will eat extra on the days to overcompensate) tells me to rest, but allows me to go in a doing something light, a small bodypart, in the early mornings to sort of wakeup and keep the juices flowing. It's sort of like giving a smoker a pencil to chew on instead of a smoke.

My thing with eating is that I havent cheated on my diet for many years....that's all on me bro.....thats why i thought now is the chance while I bulk up to do it and beat this thing once and for all...so far, his principles are top notch...he wants me training 4x a week max, I swung it to get 5.....he's the bodybuilding expert and you guys, although VERY knowledgeable are more in this for strength then anything else. Hence your diets and thoughts on foods are much different, which isn't bad. For me, I never or rarely do 3 reps, you guys do it often, my rest is about 90 seconds to 2 minutes, somethines u guys rest for 5....this forum has transitioned from the bb physique to move of the power lifter, but like I said, I think it's great......I want to keep a hold of this trainer at least for 30 days, like the deal was. I mean fuck, I'm already up 6 lbs from Monday (monday was prob off because I wasnt on the diet or creatine then) but 6lbs is more than I've gained in a long ass time.......you with me brutha?

 

[BiggT]

I'm with ya JK, I want to see you see this through and beat the eating disorder, it doesn't happen overnight, but you've made big strides in 1 week, and it'll keep getting easier and easier.

 

[Cynical Simian]

It's really not worth my time to type a few paragraphs to dispel your mistaken assumptions about my suggestions (it wasn't about the cheating), me (or my diet/training) and this forum, but take a look at DJ's old 5x5 journal if you want to see my thoughts on diet. And look anywhere on the forum, particularly at madcow's posts on that "talk me into the 5x5" thread, to see that the BB-PL/hypertrophy-strength dichotomy you invoked is irrelevant at all but the highest levels of specialization.

Anyway, I'll continue to drop in to offer support, but I'll leave the advising to your trainer.

 

[JKurz1]

It's really not worth my time to type a few paragraphs to dispel your mistaken assumptions about my suggestions (it wasn't about the cheating), me (or my diet/training) and this forum, but take a look at DJ's old 5x5 journal if you want to see my thoughts on diet. And look anywhere on the forum, particularly at madcow's posts on that "talk me into the 5x5" thread, to see that the BB-PL/hypertrophy-strength dichotomy you invoked is irrelevant at all but the highest levels of specialization.

Anyway, I'll continue to drop in to offer support, but I'll leave the advising to your trainer.

Please tell me your diet and training philosophies...I think the diet is were illustrated and much thought was put forth...it wasnt slapped together for a few bucks,, it's prety flawless. I do seem to think the calories are too high and so are the carbs, but m theories havent worked for me in 5 years....I'll give it a shot...

Next topic, diet was sound today.....grabbed a couple of subs fro msubway, and damn were they good.....am I going top do this daily and not be able to stop? Or is that just eating for a bodybuilder? EAT!

Im 7 plbs in 6 days.......how in the FFF can this be?? I realize 3-4 are from creatine, 1 prob. mucle, and the rest has to be fat, but that is going to come with no ardio and excess calories, am I right?

 

[JKurz1]

tomorrow I got a bday party for my brother at hyde park grill....a pretty eleoquent fine dining joint with the best steaks in the area. My brother has been talking about this all week and how much food he's gona put down since my pop has the tab. Do I go all out, impress the folks and watch my gmother keel over, like steak potatoes wine, veggies, sautees...wine....or do I get a salad and some salmon? sticking to a show diet?

 

[alex2678]

Do I go all out, impress the folks and watch my gmother keel over, like steak potatoes wine, veggies, sautees...wine....or do I get a salad and some salmon? sticking to a show diet?

No salmon and a salad Kurz. Father's got the tab and you're on a bulk. Enjoy yourself and have some good food.

 

[Protobuilder]

Find a happy medium. Enjoy a nice steak and a nice meal. Don't worry about the calories, but don't eat like a hog. Or, eat like a bird during the day and pig out at dinner. It won't kill you. All that really matters is that your calories hit your total for the day. If you go over a bit, or under a bit, you'll be fine. I think at this point, you probably need consistency. So I'd suggest backing off a bit during the day and eating a little more at the party. LIke I said, enjoy a nice big steak, some potatoes, veggies, a glass of wine if you like, and you'll be fine.

 

[BiggT]

JK..I like your brother and I don't even know him, thats something I'd be pumped up about a week in advance........you better get that steak, or I will seriously never speak to you again, lol.....just enjoy man, steak is quality calories, load up and eat all the potatoes you want too, just because thats what I would do.....really, relax and enjoy yourself, just follow your brother's lead, I know if I were going to a place known for their steaks, there would be no holding back......you're bulking for a show, not cutting for one right now.....not only should you eat up, but post up about it afterwards.

 

[JKurz1]

SEE...ONE SAYS FINDA A HAPPY MEDIUM AND EAT LESS THROUGHOUT NTHE DAY...the other says go all out...final question, what would u do here...you finish eating at 7pm.....bed around 930...still hae my casein, cottage chheese and almonds prebed? Stupidm question and I know I need it......most important time to get a meal in.....I cant let myself resort back to my old theories....UP 7 POUINDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mercere]

I believe worrying so much and putting yourself in stress is detrimental to your goals. Literally. Eat the steak man! You're trying to put on muscle. Enjoy a good meal with your family.

 

[JKurz1]

Steak?????/ You think Im worried?? I eat steaks daily or somesort of red meat....not the problem at all.....my problem may be my brother and family wanting to see the new "JKURZ" and the one who is gonna walk on stage in 15 months...meaning, they migt be expecting the 18oz steak ++++ the mashed potatoes, + all the sautees, ++ the chocoloate mouse cake ++ the stone cold creamery afterwards....you see m point now bro? Shit, I could easly get a clean filet, some steamed veggies and a potatoe and probably haver it be smaller than the meal I suppose to eat (as itll fall 2hrs postworkout which is slated for 1.5 cups oats, 8oz chicken/salmon, 2tb of olive oil.

 

[Protobuilder]

hae my casein, cottage chheese and almonds prebed?

Have you gotten all your calories in for the day? If not, eat.

 

[JKurz1]

I WON'T EVEN BE CLOSE AS MY WEEKENDS ALWAYS fall short a meal or two waking up late, bed early, etc.)

I've had 2 meals in (prob. 100g of pro, 150 carbs), going to train quads, pw shake of just whey, creatine, bcaa, and glutamine and that will be it till dinner, so obvoiusly I'll be severe lacking....maybe by 3,000 cals and my four pw meals will never happen! Didnt think about hat..should have eaten more than 1 cup of rice and 1 cup of oats today!!!!1

I guess it all comes down to this....how badly do I want it, and do I want to risk the fact that I will most likely upset BigT, you, and Cyncial and likely have them (and u give up hope), I don't want to let you guys down and I wont. See, thats what I mean by support!

 

[anotherbutters]

Man, you're going to give yourself a heart attack with all this worrying. Just try to relax a little. Your world won't cave in just because you missed your cottage cheese before bedtime. It won't make the blindest bit of difference whether you ate it or not. What matters is being sensible and consistent in the long term. Step back and think of the big picture. Stop analysing every meal. You've become a slave to calorie counting and macro breakdowns. The time to worry about those things is when you're restricting your diet and you're cutting. Try to relax and enjoy life. Stop worrying about the little things.

 

[BiggT]

JK, it's 2 PM....what time is dinner?

Just enjoy yourself, and remember, STRESS IS CATABOLIC, so relax and enjoy dinner on Dad's tab.

 

[JKurz1]

I let you guys down HARD!

Sorry boys...the 14oz porthouse was on special with sauteed onions and musrooms...on bone came to about 22oz......I went with the elequant filet, 8ozs, with garlic mash potatoes, a huge salad, and a side of mac and cheese (DAMMMNNNNNN GOOOD!)

only could muster in 1/2 of the choc mousse....but now it's time for walnuts casein thick (tons of splenda and syrups, ns) and a bowl of cottage cheese.....Im thinking the 125mg of test right now every 3 days will put me back in a normal range and will aid this growth spurt? I know I said hold off, but I got second thoughts watching kids outbench me by 100lbs........

 

[view]

I let you guys down HARD!

Sorry boys...the 14oz porthouse was on special with sauteed onions and musrooms...on bone came to about 22oz......I went with the elequant filet, 8ozs, with garlic mash potatoes, a huge salad, and a side of mac and cheese (DAMMMNNNNNN GOOOD!)

only could muster in 1/2 of the choc mousse....but now it's time for walnuts casein thick (tons of splenda and syrups, ns) and a bowl of cottage cheese.....Im thinking the 125mg of test right now every 3 days will put me back in a normal range and will aid this growth spurt? I know I said hold off, but I got second thoughts watching kids outbench me by 100lbs........

absoluitely hold off. Test levels will likely increase after a 2-3 month period of steady food intake. don't pass up on the fats either, they are the most important dietary factor for natural testosteroen production. you should be able to get 100 pounds on your bench in 6 months if you keep it going at this rate.

 

[fortunatesun]

Good work on the steak. Gluttony is only fun at the time. You always regret it 2 hrs. lator.

I'm with the others on holding off on the test, though it's tempting. You're just going through a short period of readjustment. Once your system acclimates to receiving adequate nutrition and some serious work w/o a decimating amount of cardio, you'll improve faster. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a small newbie growth spurt. Let your body heal and improve itself. Mother nature is still better at this. Afterwards, when things normalize, you'll be ready to go and you'll also have a better idea is to what your natural limitations are.

 

[anotherbutters]

Out of interest, what are you currently squatting, benching and deadlifting?

 

[silver_shadow]

having seen what some of the others have said about HPTA recovery related to possible HRT usage... i agree - resist the temptation of geting on the sauce till your natty test levels have stabilized. JMO

you mentioned doing 2x cardio per wk "on the sly" for your heart. i'm assuming that you're doing regular long slow cardio? if so, my suggestion would be to try out some HIIT - not only muscle preserving but IMO also very effective for the heart and lungs - it's all i do even while bulking... and trust me i NEED it coz i'm asthmatic. plus you're in and out quick.

 

[JKurz1]

having seen what some of the others have said about HPTA recovery related to possible HRT usage... i agree - resist the temptation of geting on the sauce till your natty test levels have stabilized. JMO

you mentioned doing 2x cardio per wk "on the sly" for your heart. i'm assuming that you're doing regular long slow cardio? if so, my suggestion would be to try out some HIIT - not only muscle preserving but IMO also very effective for the heart and lungs - it's all i do even while bulking... and trust me i NEED it coz i'm asthmatic. plus you're in and out quick.

WHAT DO YOU DO FOR HIIT? ROUTINE?

I am just nervous with the abundance of cals (albeit clean) that my body will store them as fat, since my levels are so low, is this false?

 

[silver_shadow]

i usually use the treadmill for HIIT. how you split up the high intensity/low intensity is up to you and depends on your conditioning. rule of thumb is that the low intensity should go on just long enough till you get your breath back and high intensity shouldn't be so severe that you want to stop immediately. other than that, if you can get to a track, then alternating sprints at even 70% of max with slow jogging for a few mins (max 15-20 mins) would be better. jump ropes are great too. cycling is ok.

i think at your age, the excess cals combined with progressive weight training should improve your testosterone levels, and not the other way around. in old age studies, low testosterone results in obesity. the cause and effect are kind of reversed in both the cases. also, the old age studies are performed on largely sedentary individuals. so it don't think you should be worrying about it. contrary to your worries, the excess cals (which will include crucial fats needed for testosterone synthesis) will actually aid in recovery.

 

[JKurz1]

OK....ill hold off, just worried the cals will turn into fat with the test of a little girl...thoughts?

Monday July 22, 2006
530am - Height 6'2. Weight 164lbs, 7-8%bf

BCAAS (NO TIME FOR A SHAKE PRE) - USUALLY 2 SCOOPS CASEIN, 1TB PB

530AM BIS
7 SET (2 WARMS) 6-12REPS, STRAIGHT BAR CURLS
3 SETS SEATED DBELL CURLS - SUPERSET W/ SINGLE DBELL PREACHERS 3 SETS
1 SET (DROP SET) - ROPE CURLS, 20, 15, 10,10
4 SETS STANDING AB CRUNCH
15 MINUTES COOLDOWN, 2.5 SPEED - 11.0 INCLINE (HAM, GLUTE WORK)

715
3/4 CUP OATS
1 CUP BLUBERIES
12 EGG WHITES
1 SCOOP DYNMATIZE PROTEIN
CREATINE, B-6, BCOMPLEX, ARGENINE, GLUTAMINE,
LARGE COFFEE

 

[silver_shadow]

what do your major lifts look like right now - squats, BB flat bench, deads, bent over BB rows?

 

[JKurz1]

what do your major lifts look like right now - squats, BB flat bench, deads, bent over BB rows?

Not good....not good at all, like I said early, I think it's due to my tendons being so weak. For example, I can get 6-8 with 70's on dbell bench, but moving to olympic bench I struggle with 145,,,,,this make sense at all? Keep in mind, I'm trying to build a bb physque, I dont care how strong I am as long as I am massive.

 

[BiggT]

JK, first off, nice work last night, steak and potatoes will serve you well, I'm proud of you, I thought you were gonna say 'sorry guys, I got a grilled chicken salad" lol....NICE work though.

You won't get fat, you also won't have the test of a little girl much longer, you have something little girls don't, a pair of balls, lol, once you are properly nourished, at your age, your body will normalize and begin producing plenty of natural test to foster progress and lean gains.

As far as your strength, train it progressively, add each time. I know your goals are physique related, but one thing that has remained constant since the beginning of time is that progressively heavy training and a surplus of calories grows muscle.

 

[JKurz1]

I'm keeping a log and increasing the weights each session.....todays bi routine was intense and I got chest tonight...just need to REALLY concentrate in getting ALL my meals in....at least for 8 weeks.....right? Not too much right?

Just the bench frustrates me...I guess I need to stick with dbells until my ligaments strengthen up?

 

[BiggT]

JK, on the bench, start where you need to start and build up from there. The frustration will end the second time you do the exercise and you see the progress, and it will be endless progress for quite some time from that point out. The onlt person you're sompeting with is yourself.

I am a fan of barbell movements, one, because I feel load is king when it comes to hypertrophy and you can handle more on a bar than with d-bells, and also, you can add 2.5lb plates each time and make gradual jumps keeping progress moving forward longer.

I think after a good month, you'll get used to eating and it won't be so much of a struggle (physically or mentally). You'll reach a point where regardless of bodybuilding or anything, you'll want to eat about 3,000 cals a day, at 6' 2" you're a big dude, much bigger than the average person, in any event, don't ever go back to weighing 160, thats just an unhealthy weight for a guy your size.

 

[JKurz1]

3,000?? I'm over 4 right now bro....is it too much? I swear I quit bulking a dozen times over the past 72hrs

 

[silver_shadow]

4000 is better

 

[BiggT]

Yes, 4000 is fine, I wasn't being specific, lol, just throwing out a general number that was more than you have been eating the past few years......at least 4k is right where you need to be, you're doing fine.

 

[JKurz1]

oK....IF i've narrowed my problems/thoughts down to these major issues. If I can somehow overcome these, with your help, I have 100% beaten this horrible disease

#1 - I am taking in too many cals for a guy who is 30 and sits in an office allday - why do I need so much when I'm only active for 1.5 hours a day?

#1.5 STAYING OUT OF THE MIRROR (EVERY NIGHT I FIND MYSELF FLEXING MY ABS IN THE MIRROR TO SEE IF THEY ARE STILL THERE - THEN THEY ARE BLURRED AT THE END OF THE DAY, COUPLED WITH MY BLOATED FEELING MAKES ME SEVERELY DEPRESSED.

#2 the meals/calories slated from postworkout at 6:30 to 9:30 (3 hours) are way too high. 4 meals in 3 hours and the last one in bed??? Why do I need so much - is it too much dextrose?

#3 My test levels are very very low.....training and eating this many cals, my body wont use them for the right purposes, as Ive alway read - low test = fat gain

#4 - I can't stay out of the gym. I am only suppose to be there 5 days a week, but I find myself going 6....

and last - starving myself on wednesdays, my off days.....well, not really starving, but only getting in a couple hundred carbs as now the thought process is, if I am doing nothing all day, I def. don't need to eat as much.

 

[BiggT]

#1....You aren't the average, run of the mill, sedintary American slob, or even the average lazy guy who drinks 2-3 nights a week, lays around on the couch in their spare time, and maybe has a passing thought of working out a few times a year......You're training hard and attempting to gain muscular bodyweight, don't compare youself to the average Joe, you're not.

#2...Change your idea of what you want to see in the mirror, don't look for ab veins, look for bulging muscles, look to see that your body is thicker and more powerful looking, thats the plan right now and that is what you need to look for, not abs.

#3...Your test levels WILL improve with proper nutrition, sleep, and training (hard training, not running yourself into the ground on a nutritionally inadequate diet like you were doing). Your body will use the calories, you just need to have faith, once you SEE the results, you'll have more confidence in this.

#4....Kind of a neurotic need to exercise I guess, You can do SOMETHING, you don't have to ruin yourself, but some active recovery, play pickup basketball, go for a bike ride, do some moderate sprints, go for a walk, play raquet ball ith your brother.....keep active if it makes you happy, but don't burry yourself into the ground with something counterproductive like running 10 miles.

and last......to make gains, you need to consistently hit caloric surplus, it all works together, an 'off-day' is still part of the plan....cutting and maintainence diets are different, but to gain bodyweight, you need to hit your calories everyday....if you were cutting, would you have 1 day where you totally pigged out?? Of course not, when you're bulking you can't have 1 day where you starve yourself.......calories are calories....carbs are a way to ge them in.....think of it as "preparing for the next day's hard workout".

 

[JKurz1]

AS LONG AS i HAVE YOUR SEAL of approval bro....Im not letting you down.....my trainer promised me, said give this diet 10 weeks....Sept 17th, we'll talk about MAYBE introducing gear, but he's very much agaist it, as am I....ill have my levels checked then.

He also promised my i wouldnt go about 10%, I find that hard to believe with this diet, but at my fragile state this is pretty much life or death.

BIGT - thanks brother, that was a very nice post and I am glad I got u on my side...now, I need to update my log.....

 

[JKurz1]

Monday July 22, 2006
530am - Height 6'2. Weight 164lbs, 7-8%bf

BCAAS (NO TIME FOR A SHAKE PRE) - USUALLY 2 SCOOPS CASEIN, 1TB PB

530AM BIS
7 SET (2 WARMS) 6-12REPS, STRAIGHT BAR CURLS
3 SETS SEATED DBELL CURLS - SUPERSET W/ SINGLE DBELL PREACHERS 3 SETS
1 SET (DROP SET) - ROPE CURLS, 20, 15, 10,10
4 SETS STANDING AB CRUNCH
15 MINUTES COOLDOWN, 2.5 SPEED - 11.0 INCLINE (HAM, GLUTE WORK)

715
3/4 CUP OATS
1 CUP BLUBERIES
12 EGG WHITES
1 SCOOP DYNMATIZE PROTEIN
CREATINE, B-6, BCOMPLEX, ARGENINE, GLUTAMINE,
LARGE COFFEE

10AM
3/4 CUP OATS (1/4 cup eaten raw - love it!)
12 EGG WHITES
1 SCOOP CASEIN 1/4 cup OAT BRAN

12:30
8OZ CHICKEN 51 0 8 370
6OZ PASTA COOKED 8 48 3 225
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES--- 3 30 2 200
62 78 13 795

 

[JKurz1]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to BiggT again.

 

[JKurz1]

Monday July 22, 2006
530am - Height 6'2. Weight 164lbs, 7-8%bf

BCAAS (NO TIME FOR A SHAKE PRE) - USUALLY 2 SCOOPS CASEIN, 1TB PB

530AM BIS
7 SET (2 WARMS) 6-12REPS, STRAIGHT BAR CURLS
3 SETS SEATED DBELL CURLS - SUPERSET W/ SINGLE DBELL PREACHERS 3 SETS
1 SET (DROP SET) - ROPE CURLS, 20, 15, 10,10
4 SETS STANDING AB CRUNCH
15 MINUTES COOLDOWN, 2.5 SPEED - 11.0 INCLINE (HAM, GLUTE WORK)

715
3/4 CUP OATS
1 CUP BLUBERIES
12 EGG WHITES
1 SCOOP DYNMATIZE PROTEIN
CREATINE, B-6, BCOMPLEX, ARGENINE, GLUTAMINE,
LARGE COFFEE

10AM
3/4 CUP OATS (1/4 cup eaten raw - love it!)
12 EGG WHITES
1 SCOOP CASEIN 1/4 cup OAT BRAN

12:30
8OZ CHICKEN 51 0 8 370
6OZ PASTA COOKED 8 48 3 225
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES--- 3 30 2 200
62 78 13 795

well boys, it's 1:30pm, three meals down and one training session. Now, I got my preworkout shake/thingy of casein (2 scoops) and a tb of pb around 3pm....CHest at 4:45. For those who havent tried Pro/fat only preworkput, give iot a shot...I never thought Id like it, but it's awesome.....energy is there, plus no crash as blood sugars remain constant.....He also has me sipping on gatorade (2oz) during w/ bcaas, to restore eletrolites. Anyone else try this?

Then I got my pw shake, my first pw meal which is just a continuation, my preevening meal, and then my In the Crib meal....tons of cals, all clean (is dex considered clean??? I'll have to look into that.....)

My noon meal, I only ate 1/2 of my salad and I feel much better bloat wise. I guess that's the key getting the cals in and not feeling like shit......reducing the fiberous carbs...but Mondays always feel good as my cals are usually lower on the weekends...come wed and thursday is when I feel like shit and want to turn back!

 

[Protobuilder]

jkurz -- What are your hobbies/interests outside of weightlifting and exercise related things?

 

[JKurz1]

jkurz -- What are your hobbies/interests outside of weightlifting and exercise related things?

NONE!!!

Nah, Im joking....I enjoy to actually just vege out with the girl or the boys or my boxer, Lugar. I used to enjoy clubbn, when I was in college and a boozer...a lot of my friends still do it which makes it rough....love every sport...season tix to tribe/cavs/browns...love OSU football....jock in general...and I love to read and read and read about training, aas, nutrition...I wish I could get a hold of more books.....borders and those places don't carry many.

 

[Protobuilder]

Good. It just seems like you obsess constantly about your physique/diet/training. If it caused me that much grief/stress, I don't think I'd do it anymore!

 

[JKurz1]

Good. It just seems like you obsess constantly about your physique/diet/training. If it caused me that much grief/stress, I don't think I'd do it anymore!

its turned into a bigtome sport, one that baffels me as I try to master it.....I've been huge (well, big at 255, 14-15%) and frail (138lbs sub 5%) and NOW, I'm trying to find that happy median (225, 9-10%)....got to get there!

 

[JKurz1]

Tuesday - July 25th (tris/abs - Am, Back - Pm)


Bcaas (no Time For A Shake Pre) - Usually 2 Scoops Casein, 1tb Pb

530am Tris
7 Set (2 Warms) 6-12reps, Incline Skulls Ss With Olympic Bar Skulls
3 Sets Close Grip Press -
1 Set (drop Set) - Chambered Bar Press, 20, 15, 10,10
4 Sets Standing Ab Crunch
15 Minutes Cooldown, 2.5 Speed - 11.0 Incline (ham, Glute Work)

Current Weight 164 - Started At 159 8 Days Ago

7:15
3/4 Cup Oats (1/4 Cup Dry)
1 Cup Blueberries (may Switch To Banana)
1/2 Cup Egg Beaters
1/2 Cup Skim
1.5 Scoops Whey
Creatine, Glutamine, Bcaa, Vit B, C, R-ala


Really Really Tempted To Sub In 250mg Of Test A Week Just As A Kick And Hrt Dose Since My Levels Are Very Low...been Holding Off, But The More I Read Into It, The More I Am Fininding That It Is A Safe Alternative.

 

[JKurz1]

MY trainer told me to add in a banana first thing in the morning and remove the blueberris for a more caloric food and one that is needed first thing in the am to kickstart the body.

He also uses 8-10 rice cakes, or a few nutragrain bars, with his dext. and whey, oats shakes postworkout for the quick carbs. His theory is that he doesnt care what I use as my carb source pw, as long as it's fast acting, and meets the requirements of 40g of protein, 80g of carbs. Then an additional 80 in my 2nd pw meal, and cut back to 50 before bed. Thoughts?

don't want to overanalyze, just a friendly debate. Thoughts?

 

[silver_shadow]

Really Really Tempted To Sub In 250mg Of Test A Week Just As A Kick And Hrt Dose Since My Levels Are Very Low...been Holding Off, But The More I Read Into It, The More I Am Fininding That It Is A Safe Alternative.

bro, i'm not sure what you've been reading, but any amount of AAS will result in HPTA supression. i'm not sure that's what you want because the crash will be worse when you come off considering where you're at right now. i say just resist the AAS temptation for at least another 3 months.

 

[JKurz1]

I'm resisted........I just KNOW, I could eat more and more and lose the worriness knowing my test levels are where they should be!!!

 

[JKurz1]

Lets just be hypothetical...I will wait as BigT said, the diet should do me justice, but my thought.

Take 250mg a week in 2 doses of cyp or sus for 8 weeks.....with the continuous heavy lifting, and eating my arsh off, I should be able to gain a lean 10-15-20lbs.

Take 2 weeks off to rest...continue the diet or even reduce cals by 20%, doing an active rest

Start real 10 week cycle
500mg of test
400mg eq
then a proper pct for 4 weeks......and be done for 10 weeks. Then reevalutate. Thoughts?

 

[silver_shadow]

i'm a low dosage and more time off/less on fan. so i'd probably do max 500mg of test/wk for 8 wks, 3-4 wks of PCT and think about AAS after at least 4 mths.

 

[JKurz1]

Lost Ya?

 

[silver_shadow]

Lost Ya?

what i mentioned above is the kind of cycling i'd do. notice the lower dosages compared to what you'd see on the AAS forum.

 

[JKurz1]

So Why Are U Against My Theory? Will it work for the next 18-20 weeks, afford me to put on the lean mass I desire and absolutely pound in the cals? I will rebound with proper pct after, don't you agree?

 

[guldukat]

hope so...thnx

I hope so, too.

I saw some posts at Getbig that sound just like you: same writing style, identical stats and dilemma. Guy calls himself Lugar.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=83866.0

He mentioned that he'd been doing "triathlon after triathlon" for 4 years and couldn't suss why he'd dropped from 220 to 160. No mention of cancer, though.

If that's you -- and I'm certain it is -- fight the temptation to sneak in a few runs here and there. It'd definitely keep you from getting back on track.

 

[JKurz1]

I hope so, too.

I saw some posts at Getbig that sound just like you: same writing style, identical stats and dilemma. Guy calls himself Lugar.

He mentioned that he'd been doing "triathlon after triathlon" for 4 years and couldn't suss why he'd dropped from 220 to 160. No mention of cancer, though.

If that's you -- and I'm certain it is -- fight the temptation to sneak in a few runs here and there. It'd definitely keep you from getting back on track.

I DONT RUN ANYMORE....TRUST ME

 

[JKurz1]

Lets just be hypothetical...I will wait as BigT said, the diet should do me justice, but my thought.

Take 250mg a week in 2 doses of cyp or sus for 8 weeks.....with the continuous heavy lifting, and eating my arsh off, I should be able to gain a lean 10-15-20lbs.

Take 2 weeks off to rest...continue the diet or even reduce cals by 20%, doing an active rest

Start real 10 week cycle
500mg of test
400mg eq
then a proper pct for 4 weeks......and be done for 10 weeks. Then reevalutate. Thoughts?

THOUGHTS ON THIS BIGT??

 

[guldukat]

I DONT RUN ANYMORE....TRUST ME

Good If only I could get my best friend to follow your example *sigh*

 

[BiggT]

JK, of course test will promote a lean muscle gain, it will improve recovery, improve protein synthesis and nutrient partitioning, and enhance the stimulus to your training, thats what it is intended to do.

I am not going to try to act like a steroid expert, because I admittedly am not, but compared to what the body produces naturally and is intended to produce naturally, 250mg is still an enormous amount of test (relatively speaking). So, I agree with everybody that you would shut down natural production of test even wit ha moderately doesed cycle for a moderate time period, and even with proper PCT, at this point, the last thing you want to do is screw with your body's own natural processes that you already have with the starvation diets and overtraining. I still think you should wait it out, you're only on week 2 of this program, man, I understand you'd like an 'insurance policy' because you still have a fear of getting "fat".....but you need to truct what you're doing and trust your body, you're a 30-year old guy who is grossly underweight, but you're in perfect health, your body can and will put on lean muscle for quite some time, just let the body return to normal functioning, give this a couple months, see what your gains are and re-evaluate then.

Also, Cyp and Sus aren't interchangeable, you'd have to plan differently depending on which one you took, and to my knowledge and from my experience, Cyp would probably still be in your system 2 weeks after the last shot to some degree, and you wouldn't even benefit from it until after the second week of the cycle sometime. And with Sus, the fast acting esters make up roughly half the drug (I think), so you need to look at how much will be in the system and for how long.....again, the two aren't interchangeable with one an other one doesn't work like the other.

What you outlined would probably work better in theory with Propionate or Suspension, something that gets in, does its thing, and gets out.....in that case, what you're thinking makes sense logically, but, with long-acting esters, it isn't that simple......I would really just chill out and eat and train and sleep and just have faith that your body will normalize, because IT WILL....at 30 years old your body is far from drained and old, it will bounce back. It took you 4 years to wreck yourself, it certainly won't take another 4 years to get back, but it will take longer than a week also, just be patient and enjoy the ride.

 

[The Shadow]

what T said.


Why you are repeatedly asking for validation is fucking beyond me...you will ultimately do what you want to do regardless of how many times you are warned.


Do what you want - but please stop asking the same questions over and over.


Why in the blue hell do you want to go on a cycle when your body isn't ready?!?!


btw - 20 pound of lean mass in 8 weeks off a does of 250 mg/wk??


ROTFLMFAO - your source must have sold you on that idea.


12 pounds of TOTAL weight in 8 weights is viable...with 3 -4 of that being water retention.




Why in the fuck do you want to use gear after your cancer is beyond me......Test has been proven in study after study to weaken the immune system




*sigh*




ok - rant over....do what the fuck you want - its your body





















My head hurts......







much like eating ice cream to fast and getting a brain freeze.



I realize that I might be "new" on this forum.....but my knowledge of gear usage is extremely solid, form my days in the lab actually getting it tested to my research on it in grad school.

Huck is around - as are Diamond Cut cows - and Macro - ask them.

 

[fortunatesun]

Why in the fuck do you want to use gear after your cancer is beyond me......Test has been proven in study after study to weaken the immune system

There's an interesting topic- JK, what supplements do you take to support your immune system? Do you think any of them have a noticable effect in negating the effects of cancer? Sorry if you've posted elsewhere on this, if so, would you have a link?

 

[silver_shadow]

JK, there are different opinions on juicing all around (well at least amongst the regulars on the AAS board). here one thing seems to be common though (i think) - the use of lower dosages for moderate periods. i feel that 18-20 wks of even 250mg/wk of test is going to shut you down pretty bad so that when you get off PCT won't guarantee you keep too much of your gains. in fact PCT will NEVER allow you to keep everything. unfortunately there just aren't any magic pills that will allow for that. there are just too many variables at work here all involved in homeostasis so that muscle loss is inevitable. having said that i think 10lbs of solid muscle gain from an 8-10 weeker is fantastic and i don't believe that most people need significantly high dosages for that. to summarize IMO, high doses (for most - and i'm sure you will come in the "most" category) will do nothing more than lower doses hence it amounts to wasting your money. and cycles significantly longer than 8-10 weeks, regardless of dose result in enough crash post cycle so that it loses it's viability. before someone jumps down my throat about pros using much more for much more time, i'm describing the kind of usage for guys with not too much cycling history. hope that makes sense.

 

[JKurz1]

ok..sorry...just a discussion....what I want to do and what I am going to do are different! I will wait, trust me...sorry to piss off everyone.....I just hope the deit ad training work like they should! Nine days in up 7lbs.....abs are a a little faded out, but I need to get over it....I'll update today late....it's my OFF DAY!

 

[JKurz1]

Wednesday July 26th

OFF DAY!

COMPLETELY OFF....no training, just relax, work late, have a seminar to attend from 11am - 5pm, so I may have to drag out my eating times.....I'll make up for it at night, but I have severely cut my carbs to suffice.

700AM
1 scoop mix blend 25 5 3 225
3 egg whites (hard boiled) 12 1 1 105
1/2 cup egg whites 12 1 1 100
1/2tb of flax 0 0 5 60
1/2 CUP SKIM/COFFEE 4 5 1 50
53 12 0 11 540
10AM
1 CUP OATS 7 54 4.5 300
12 EGG WHITES 12 3 0 90
1 SCOOP CASEIN 25 4 2 160

44 0 61 0 6.5 550

NOON
8OZ CHICKEN 51 0 8 370

LARGE SALAD, VEGIES--- 3 30 2 200
54 30 10 570

4pm
8OZ FLANK/SALMON 47 0 14 330
1 TB FLAX 0 0 14 120
47 0 0 28 450


830
4OZ CHICKEN, 4OZ SALMON 55 0 10 325
55 0 0 10 325

10PM
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 20 3 1 160
20 almonds and peanuts 6 6 16 175
1 SCOOP CASEIN 20 2 3 130
1 CUP SKIM--- 8 1 15 125
34 0 9 0 34 430

287.00 112.00 99.50 2,865.00
287.00 112.00 99.50 2,865.00

 

[JKurz1]

Beyond Steroids anybody read this book?

 

[BiggT]

Beyond Steroids anybody read this book?

lol, I just got spam in my PM box about it. I honestly don't know anything about the book though.

 

[JKurz1]

lol, I just got spam in my PM box about it. I honestly don't know anything about the book though.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK BIGGIE....up 7lbs in 9 days....rest day today....limited it to under 200carbs....maybe have to go extended time with no food, (mtg)....but, I'll be resting recovering and eating...

here's an interesting read.

As many of you already know I have had decent success with short cycles. I, along with some of my friends and clients, have had good results with cycles as short as 14 days long.

I no longer do cycles longer than 4-6 weeks as I am simply sick of the sides that build up after 4-6 weeks and I no longer feel comfortable walking around with a shitty lipid profile for months on end.


WHAT QUALIFIES AS SHORT

"In my book" any cycle 6 weeks or less is a short cycle. Personally I now think that 4 weekers give the best gains to sides ratio.

You can do 2 weeks "on" 2-4 weeks "off"
You can do 4 weeks on and 4-6 weeks off
Or you can do 6 weeks on with 6-8 weeks off.
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off, year round, gives excellent results and you are only "on" half the year.

WHY DO THEM

#1.
If you are one of those bro's that does longer cycles, of say 10-12 weeks or more, and then wisely takes an equal amount of time off, and you are tired of loosing so much of your gains post cycle due to the length of the time off...the yoyo affect....then why not try doing shorter cycles with their corresponding shorter off times...... obviously you don't gain as much with a short cycle but then again you don't loose as much post cycle either due to the shorter off time.

Now... over say a year of doing 4 on 4-6 off you are gong to get very similar results as that seen from doing longer cycles of say 12 "on" 12-14 off but with less yo-yo affect and less sides. In fact most of my clients that do 4-6 week cycles tell me that they are actually getting better gains over a years use.

#2.
Do them to have less of a negative impact on ones lipid profile and to have less total time per year with a poor lipid profile.

Some of you may not know that androgens, taken at even newbie bodybuilding doses, alter everyones lipid profile. Everyone sees their hdl(good cholesterol) take a huge "nosedive" and most also see their ldl(bad cholesterol) go up to some degree but not to the same degree that hdl decreases. Generally hdl decreases 40-70% in as little as 2 weeks and ldl increases an average of 36% in 4 weeks. In my experience this reduction in hdl puts all bro's hdl WELL below the pathological minimum of 35. My ldl does not elevate above the pathological level of 160 but others see ldl's well above 160.
Lipid levels typically normalize within 3-10 weeks after discontinuation.
( details taken from article in Medscape)

Here are my "numbers" from the last long cycle of test 750mg/week and Tren 75mg/day. A powerful stack but not a huge dose of gear. It's been as bad with less powerful gear and lower doses. Blood work done after week 7.

Total cholesterol 181...not bad.
ldl 160...not very good
hdl 11.6! CRAPPY big time
Cholesterol to hdl ratio 15.7 to 1...ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! This is when my doc and I had a COW at the same time.
Triglycerides 50...good.

Here is my "baseline" without gear

Chol 152...great
ldl 106...great
hdl 45-48...good
tri 50..good
chol to hdl ratio....3.16 to 1.....good

.As far as I and my endochrinologist are concerned this lipid altering side of gear use is the single worst side of steroid use.
In as little as a week hdl decreases. Personally my brother-in-law and I really see a huge decrease after about 3 weeks "on' cycle. The last time I did a long cycle my total cholesterol to hdl ratio plummeted to 15 to 1!...My doc had a cow and so did I!!

According to current medical thought ones total cholesterol to hdl ratio is the single greatest LIPID indicator for assessing ones chances of developing heart disease. Men with low total cholesterols but with crappy hdl have gone on to develope heart disease WITHOUT ANY OTHER RISK FACTORS such as smoking, or diabetes.

Ideally you want an hdl of at least 40 and a ratio of 3.5 to 1 or better.

My mentor, the late great MIKE MENTZER died of heart disease at age 50 and I know for a fact that ARNOLD had more than valve surgery(I am an operating room nurse as well as a trainer)


#3.
Do them to decrease liver stress.
Generally long cycles with non 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver but sometimes one can get into trouble. The short cycle allows for less total stress on the liver and the frequent "off" times allows the liver to regenerate very well.
Generally a healthy liver can take pretty big "hits" for short periods of time without any problem ...it is long term stress that cause liver damage(as seen with elevated GGT enzyme levels)

#4.
Do them if you want to "tone down" your use of steroids.

#5.
Do them if you do NOT want to use HCG during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. HPTA shut down will be complete in as little as a week "on" but testicualr atrophy is minimal due to the short length of this shut down. This then allows for better HPTA recovery post cycle.
It is small testes that makes HPTA recovery slow because GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH from the pituitary normally rebound pretty rapidly.
* There will be some testicular shrinkage in any cycle so if you do 4 "on" 4 "off" for several cycles in a row then it would be a good idea to use hcg at 500iu's every 3rd day while "on" to prevent testicular atrophy...the 4 weeks "off" may not be enough time to allow for complete testicular recovery and over the span of several cycles this may impact your HPTA recovery.

You certainly can use hcg while on any short cycle to prevent any testicular shrinkage if you like but it really isn't necessary.

#6.
Do them if you do not want to see much in the way of water retention and do not want to use an estrogen inhibitor or an ace inhibitor(diuretic)


#7.
Do them if you get high blood pressure and do not wish to use the above mentioned ancillaries.

#8. Do them if you are sick of androgenic sides such as ance, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss(if prone to hair loss) etc etc.
Androgen sides come on for two reason...dose used and especially length of time "on". I do not get acne until after 4 weeks on and then I get hammered.....and I hate it.

#9.
Do them if you are tired of walking around with high estrogen levels for months on end and do not wish to or cannot afford to use an estrogen inhibitor. High estrogen levels are NOT good for the prostate at all!

You certainly can use estrogen inhibitors if you like if you want to keep estrogen levels down and experience very little water retention.


WHY NOT TO DO THEM

Obviously if you compete at a high level then short cycles are probably not the best for you, BUT I think they are the best way to use steroids for the vast majority of bro's.
Top competitors need to be "on" either all the time or most of the time....thats unfortunate but usually necessary in order to get freaky huge which is now needed to win big.


WHAT TO EXPECT

If one is not yet at ones natural maximum level of muscular developement then very good gains can be seen of up to 15 pounds and 10 pounds kept after a 4 weeker...as long as you train correctly as a natural post cycle.

If one is off gear and has dropped to ones natural max then a short cycle can add up to 10 pounds. If you take no more than 6 weeks off after each four weeker you will not loose much...then in each successive cycle you can still gain but the gains will be smaller the further you get from your natural max.

Those that are off cycle and have not yet shrunk down to their natural max can still gain well with successive short cycles but don't expect to win at the national level.

One of the things I like about short cycles is the short time "off" between cycles.......muscular atrophy is minimal during the off time and you are allowing for frequent bodily normalization after minimal time "on". LESS SIDES IN GENERAL, LESS TIME WITH A SHITTY LIPID PROFILE and LESS MUSCLE LOSS POST CYCLE.

NOTE: You cannot get "freaky big" in this way...that takes very big doses and spending most of the year, for years on end, on steroids as well as GH and slin, and that my freinds is simply not a good idea unless you plan to make your living as a bodybuilder.

Getting pretty darn big in small steps is a safer way to use gear IMHO...and it messes less with one head too. Some guys really get depressed during "off" times of 12 or more weeks waiting to start their next cycle.


GEAR CHOICE and RATIONAL

The idea behind short cycles is to "get in" quick, hit the androgen receptors hard, get some gains, and then get the hell out as fast as possible so as to minimize sides. So with this in mind one should only use orals and rapid acting/clearing injectables. The limited time "on' simply doesn't justify the use of the "slower" esterfied injectables like deca etc. Also, these same roids take too long to clear the system and that too goes against the philosophy of short cycles.

The gear choosen should be powerful for best results and doses need to be decent as well in order to get the most from the short time on.
You can use mild gear like anavar but your results will be reduced.

BEST Gear

d-bol
test prop Tren anadrol

BEST stacks.

Personally I think d-bol/tren cannot be beat. There is only one roid that is better than testosterone, in the short run, IMHO and that is d-bol...too bad it's 17aa.

Test prop/tren
Test prop/tren/winny
Test prop/anadrol
Test prop/d-bol


STACKS AND DOSE EXAMPLES

I like Tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO Tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).

Some guys think I am nuts for recommending Tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with Tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as Tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than Tren.

The only issue with Tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)


Novice... TREN/D-BOL.... Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day in 4 divided doses per day(one right before bed) for 4 weeks.
Two days after last Tren do Clomid at 200-300mg on day one in divided doses and then 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg a day for 3 more weeks. OR...Nolva at 80mg on day one in divided doses followed by 40mg/day for a week and then 20mg/day for 3 more weeks.
Have nolva or Clomid on hand for gyno protection.

More advanced...200 of Tren on day one as a front load to get Tren levels up pronto and then 75mg/day for 4 weeks. D-bol 50mg/day in 4 divided doses for 4 weeks. SERMS as above

Novice...TEST PROP/TREN

Test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. nolva on hand.

more advanced.....Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-200mg/day for 4 weeks. Tren 75mg/day. An estrogen inhibitor might be needed.

MEGA STACK... ADVANCED
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100mg /day for 4 weeks, d-bol 50mg/day and Tren 75mg/day......LOOK THE HELL OUT! Have the nolva on the tip of your tongue he he he ...arimidex at 1-1.5mg/day would be wise even for the short 4 week period.

SINGLE STEROIDS

D-bol really is an unreal roid and as I said it is even better than test in the short run IMHO.
One can get very nice results from d-bol alone at 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks. Don't take it for longer than 6 weeks though as it is a 17aa roid and as such is somewhat hard on the liver.
D-bol for 6 weeks at a time was a favorite cycle length in the old days and produced excellent gains.

Test prop can be run all by itself at 75-200mg/day with great results too.



OKAY.....BUT YOU SAY YOU ONLY HAVE SUST, EQ, CYP etc

Long chain esterfied roids and tests are not the best choice for the shorty, as explained above, but they can work pretty well IF you do pretty large front loads. FRONT LOADS simply help to get blood hormone levels up more quickly.

ie: Intermediate user doing test cyp ...do a FRONT LOAD of at least 800mg on day one...then 2 days latter do 400mg and then every 4h day do another 400.
400 every 4th day is equal to 700mg per week.

Run the cyp for 4-6 weeks and you'll get some decent gains from it.

* Best to use Tren with this cycle....or d-bol (1 mg of arimidex/day if using d-bol and test)

* After the last shot of cyp you are going to have to wait for a couple weeks for androgen levels to drop before you start PCT and this is akin to lengthening the cycle.



BLOOD LIPIDS

You might want to consider taking the worlds best hdl improver while "on" cycle...NIACIN!
Nothing even comes close to niacins hdl incresing powers. Personally it has not helped my hdl while "on' nor has it helped my brother-in-laws, but you might see some level of improvement(don't expect a great improvement though since androgens do such a great job of messing with hepatic lipaze)

Nicain comes in three forms...regular, extended release(Niaspan) and non flush niacin. Niaspan is the best and works well at 1500mg/day taken once daily. Regular niacin works well at 600-1000mg three times a day but it gives a nasty ichy flush for a while after taking each pill.
Non flush works fairly well at 2-3 grams a day but not as good as the others IMHO.


Use nicain while "off" for sure as it will rapidly improve your shitty hdl level.
NOTE*** niacin can be hard on the liver so never use it with acutane which is hard on the liver. You really should have liver panels done if you use niacin for more than 6 weeks and be followed by a doctor(Swale would be good) especially if you are on steroids as well.

ENTER POLICOSANOL

DrVeejay11(real doctor) introduced me to another great lipid protector/improver and it too raises hdl BUT BONUS...it lowers ldl too.. and it's not liver toxic at all so you could use this stuff all the time with no worries.
Do a search at www.medscape.com for abstracts on POLICOSANOL.


I recommed that all be followed by a doctor while on steroids or at the very least educate yourself about the sides of steroid use and how to avoid the pitfalls by following yourself with blood work at labs that do not require a docs script(especially liver panels... and psa for us older guys) And guys at a minimum also watch your blood pressure while on gear at your local drug store monitoring station....keep the BP under 140 over 90 if you can especailly if you are "on" for months on end.


Best of gains and health to you all.

 

[JKurz1]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=30772&highlight=bask8kace+low+dose

 

[The Shadow]

7 pounds in 9 days has nothing to do with LBM gains.

Protein sysnthesis on that scale of >1 pound per day is impossible.


It is simply water weight.


I posted a diatribe on the theory of short cycles with front loads a couple of years
ago.....in this case it is irrelevant.


What you don't get:

1 - Gear at this point will futher hamper your HPTA - long cycles, short cycles, low dose, high does, it doesnt matter.

2 - Gear WILL also dampen your immune sytem - why you would fuck with that after you stated that you had cancer is beyond me.

3 - SCALE WEIGHT doent mean a shit - unless you have a multiple site skin fold caliper session with someone who knows their stuff - the scale weight is meaningless.


4 - You(anyone) cannnot gain a pound of LBM(non water) in a day....it is impossible - and if you are happy with those gains(as you seem) why would you fix something that aint broke(gear)

5 - Niacin as a blood lipid helper - overrated - it will increase BP and if you are on it will make it even higher due tot he water retention from the test.


I would take any cut/paste like the above with a grain of salt.


There are so many statements in that piece that are eityh misleading or just plain wrong that it's comical.



Like suggesting HGC without SPECIFICALLY stating to use an AI with it.

 

[BiggT]

JK....research and education are great things, and there is nothing wrong with reading, absorbing, and educating yourself.

Shadow clearly knows a lot more about anabolics and just science in general than me or most people do, I would really listen to what he is telling you.

And, in my own personal opinion, you shouldn't consider steroids at this time, your body WILL normalize and you CAN and WILL naturally make enormous progress. Obviously, 9 lbs in a week isn't lean muscle, but you were in a starved/dehydrated state, so it isn't a bad thing either.....just keep doing what you're doing and keep making progress.

 

[The Shadow]

BigT is very very wise.

 

[JKurz1]

You guys are both smart dudes...all I was doing was researching the topic, and wanted you guys to check it out.

I never actually had full blown cancer. The tumor was caught, had a biopsy (painful as hell) and I am ok. But that is besides the fact. I 've been resting so much more now than ever before. On top of eating my ass off and training hard. I just feel run down and know it's due to low test. My doc, like I mentioned, had me on androderm, but I stopped as it did nothing and was 3x as expensive as injetions......so, if I am very careful and smart about it, taking the bros here reccomendations for a cycle, would it be anything other than benefitial if I guarunteed a proper and all inclusive pct? I just want to feel good again eating so much. I want that feeling that the calories are not being stored. I want to be stronger again. I know it will come with time, but I truly feel from my reads that this will help.

NO, I am not going to keep asking the same question and will be done after this post. If you guys still say you are 100% against it, then I'll forget it. But I really wish you'd side with me. I am not a newb looking for a quick out...ive been in this game for a long ass time, i know my shit, i research a ton but respect your opinions more than I do my own. So, am I seeriously crazy, or will it be good to go for 8 weeks and done!

 

[The Shadow]

Trust me....



I have nothing to gain or lose by your decision.




my advice - never empty your gun - save some bullets for when progress slows....




A one trick pony has no tricks

 

[silver_shadow]

I never actually had full blown cancer. The tumor was caught, had a biopsy (painful as hell) and I am ok.

bro, don't take cancer too lightly. my mum had it caught as you say in an early stage. 2 tumours were removed - one malignant and one benign. the doc said at that stage that she'd be ok and that the risk was low. the next time around she went for tests, they found it had actually spread even though they had operated very early. one thing led to another - she had to undergo god only knows how many radiation therapy and chemo therapy sessions, each time tests showed it had further worsened till finally 18 mths after the operation the doc told her "you have no more then 6 months to live". and that's it, within 2 yrs of her operation it reached the final stage when they call it "galloping" when it spreads all over your internal organs uncontrollably. when that happens, your lungs get affected, they fill up with fluid and you choke to death on your own body fluids - which is what happened.

the thing is - and note i'm hardly an expert - there are different types of cancers apparently in the sense that some people have more aggressive ones like my mum. some others have very placid ones and they will probably live pretty much their full lives after they are operated. so it's not like i'm telling you to start worrying. just don't do anything which will jeopardize your already frail health (gear - especially at this stage). as of now, docs really don't understand fully what can trigger cancer let alone know how aggressive a person's ailment is - so why take chances.

 

[JKurz1]

bro, don't take cancer too lightly. my mum had it caught as you say in an early stage. 2 tumours were removed - one malignant and one benign. the doc said at that stage that she'd be ok and that the risk was low. the next time around she went for tests, they found it had actually spread even though they had operated very early. one thing led to another - she had to undergo god only knows how many radiation therapy and chemo therapy sessions, each time tests showed it had further worsened till finally 18 mths after the operation the doc told her "you have no more then 6 months to live". and that's it, within 2 yrs of her operation it reached the final stage when they call it "galloping" when it spreads all over your internal organs uncontrollably. when that happens, your lungs get affected, they fill up with fluid and you choke to death on your own body fluids - which is what happened.

the thing is - and note i'm hardly an expert - there are different types of cancers apparently in the sense that some people have more aggressive ones like my mum. some others have very placid ones and they will probably live pretty much their full lives after they are operated. so it's not like i'm telling you to start worrying. just don't do anything which will jeopardize your already frail health (gear - especially at this stage). as of now, docs really don't understand fully what can trigger cancer let alone know how aggressive a person's ailment is - so why take chances.

thanks...and I agree.

What I decided to do, was since the 250mg would only clog my receptors for 8 weeks, is to wait. Train heavy, eat heavier, rest and recover clean. Wen I get up to 180-185 naturally (if I make it without going crazy and backing out, I'll hit a good test/eq cycle at 500mg/wk, 400mg of eq up my cals, add in a little cardio and hopefully hit the 200ls mark. Hows that sound?

 

[JKurz1]

Thursday - July 27th

Well, didn't feel to swell this morning. Severly cut my carbs yesterday and my calories were on the low end as well, as it was my off day and I had a conference most of the afternoon. I think this played a role in me feeling run down today. I need to stay on target, need to get in all my meals. Spoke to my trainer who just took 2nd in the NPC's in pittsburg. He walked on stage at 175, totally shredded, sub 4% (6pt test).....yesterday, he was 208 with a tank top and shorts on. He told me his abs were faded, but felt great, swole and looked good in a tank top. He continued with "all I need to do is impress 11 judges 2x a year....other than that, it's all about gaining mass. " He's natural too. He told me he aims for 50g of protein, 70g of carbs in each of his NINE yes NINE meals....yikes...pw is 90 g of carbs in those 3 meals.....this is nuts, how does he stay so lean? He claims he owes it to his recipe of 1 1/2 cup oats dry, w/ 2 scoops blend, and makes it into a pudding...thats how he gets his cals in with no bloat. Unreal. Does this sound crazy? Why am I the only one with the mental problems of losing the abs? Here's what I got going today, will update.....please tell me your thoughts:

500 am
6 BCAAS
515 TRAIN (ABS, TRAPS, CALVES, FORARMS)

700
3/4 CUP OATS (2/3 DRY - REALLY BEGINNING TO LOVE THE TASTE OF RAW OATS!!!)
1 scoop whey
1/2 cup skim
1/2 cup egg beaters all in a shake w/ creatine and glutamine...net meal is 9:45

another cup of oats!!

 

[JKurz1]

Thursday - July 27th

Well, didn't feel to swell this morning. Severly cut my carbs yesterday and my calories were on the low end as well, as it was my off day and I had a conference most of the afternoon. I think this played a role in me feeling run down today. I need to stay on target, need to get in all my meals. Spoke to my trainer who just took 2nd in the NPC's in pittsburg. He walked on stage at 175, totally shredded, sub 4% (6pt test).....yesterday, he was 208 with a tank top and shorts on. He told me his abs were faded, but felt great, swole and looked good in a tank top. He continued with "all I need to do is impress 11 judges 2x a year....other than that, it's all about gaining mass. " He's natural too. He told me he aims for 50g of protein, 70g of carbs in each of his NINE yes NINE meals....yikes...pw is 90 g of carbs in those 3 meals.....this is nuts, how does he stay so lean? He claims he owes it to his recipe of 1 1/2 cup oats dry, w/ 2 scoops blend, and makes it into a pudding...thats how he gets his cals in with no bloat. Unreal. Does this sound crazy? Why am I the only one with the mental problems of losing the abs? Here's what I got going today, will update.....please tell me your thoughts:

500 am
6 BCAAS
515 TRAIN (ABS, TRAPS, CALVES, FORARMS)

700
3/4 CUP OATS (2/3 DRY - REALLY BEGINNING TO LOVE THE TASTE OF RAW OATS!!!)
1 scoop whey
1/2 cup skim
1/2 cup egg beaters all in a shake w/ creatine and glutamine...net meal is 9:45

1000
3/4 cup oats
1/4 cup oat bran
1 1/2 scoops casein blend - pudding
6 egg whites
1/2 cup skim

 

[JKurz1]

LAST WEEKS ROUTINE....HOPEFULL WILL BUMP ALL LIFTS BY 5LBS MINIUM

4:45 Delts
Lateral Raise First (seated)
15 X
20 X
25 X
Dbell Press (6-10 Reps)
45 X
45 X
50 X
50 X
50 X

Front Raise
40 X
50 X
50 X


Rear Delt Ss With Rear Delt Machine
20 X
25 X
25 X

 

[JKurz1]

almost pasta time.....didnt measure it today....just wipped out about 1/4 of the box...prob. 3 servings + a good, complex carb of 70-80g, big ass salad...and 8 oz lean ground beef......should I share?

 

[Tweakle]

650g's of carbs is flex 'diet of the pros' stuff, I doubt he actually eats that and stays lean if he's natural.

you should have a pretty good idea of your insulin sensitivity by now so you'll know how many carbs you actually need.

for me anything much over 150gs a day will make me a fat pig very quickly.

 

[JKurz1]

650g's of carbs is flex 'diet of the pros' stuff, I doubt he actually eats that and stays lean if he's natural.

you should have a pretty good idea of your insulin sensitivity by now so you'll know how many carbs you actually need.

for me anything much over 150gs a day will make me a fat pig very quickly.

he's 100% natty and definately eats 500+ a day....150 is on the extremely low end...I eat about 400 right now (on a good day) and sit all day in an office....I am for 40g of protein and 60g of carbs in every one of my 7 meals....8th meal is prebed. You wont be a fat ass if you double your carbs...trick is to make them clean bro.

 

[Tweakle]

Would be nice, but my body doesn't partition nutirents too well even on a gram of tren a week going over 150g's makes me fat. Remember I'm not an ecto (not even close). That said, I tend to eat 300g's on leg days but 50% of that is immediately post workout.

My only carb sources are old fashioned oats, brown rice, yam.. and of course pizza

 

[JKurz1]

Would be nice, but my body doesn't partition nutirents too well even on a gram of tren a week going over 150g's makes me fat. Remember I'm not an ecto (not even close). That said, I tend to eat 300g's on leg days but 50% of that is immediately post workout.

My only carb sources are old fashioned oats, brown rice, yam.. and of course pizza

u must be getn a ton of cals somewhere else...what are your stats, diet and training like?

 

[The Shadow]

..he enters tested shows - the trainer?

 

[fortunatesun]

Here we are: Rick McMillin finished second with a score of 10.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/20723331833.jpg&s=f10

 

[silver_shadow]

actually i think the guy is jeff rodriguez in the middleweight category. rick mcmillan is a heavyweight.

 

[JKurz1]

actually i think the guy is jeff rodriguez in the middleweight category. rick mcmillan is a heavyweight.

Don't mean to be a prick, but could you guys PM each other or start another thread to comminumcate? Much thanks.

 

[The Shadow]

Don't mean to be a prick, but could you guys PM each other or start another thread to comminumcate? Much thanks.

Get some Monistat for that yeast infection you seem to have.

Like a couple of comments are going to train wreck such a fantabulous thread.

Tell you what I will do though.....if I see any other gear questions on here - I will delete them. Since you have a problem with anyone posting anything "off topic" - I am sure you will support that decision. After all - there's a Gear Board full of folks waiting to "enlighten" you.

 

[JKurz1]

Get some Monistat for that yeast infection you seem to have.

Like a couple of comments are going to train wreck such a fantabulous thread.

Tell you what I will do though.....if I see any other gear questions on here - I will delete them. Since you have a problem with anyone posting anything "off topic" - I am sure you will support that decision. After all - there's a Gear Board full of folks waiting to "enlighten" you.

you know what I mean bro...a little here and there is cool, but many times it's gets crazy out of hand....youve seen it. I apologize. I have no problem with it, just under control.

 

[JKurz1]

Well, last night my bro and I took a drive out to this gym to pick up a 10lbs bag of dextrose. Met up with the owner who seems pretty knowledgeable in all training aspects and also competes in the Npc level. He’s 31, prob. About 5’6, and a jacked 195. He described my history to a tee. He said one day he was benching 365 for 4-6 and then noticed a decline. Then a few weeks later, he was struggling was 275 and so on.

He went to his doc and they put him on 100mg of cyp a week or 225 every 2 weeks. He claims all this as done was put him in the normal range at around 600, but his strength, feelings, etc are all back up and full peak. No bloat no nothing, just enough to keep him normal ( I think he tested around 200 went he went in) but he’s on for life.

He said the androderm I was prescribed could be my problem. I haven’t used them for a good 6 months, but could I still be shut down from the use? All I did was stop cold turkey. I am sure it’s because my caloric intake was so low for so long, but who really knows. I want to talk to you guys about this. If I took his advice, would that be ridiculous? Would it just shut me down completely forever? Could I ever come off? My diet right now is around the 4k mark, a big change from my previous 2,500 cals. Mt training is more intense now, but I am not doing am cardio, or anything more than 10 minutes. I eat every 2-3 hours, 40g Protein, 60 carbs, 7-8 times increasing them pw and decreasing prebed…..If I did what he said and took the 100mg/week for say 10 weeks, kept my calories at the very high end, kept my training intense 4x a week, will this allow me to make some nice clean gains, then come off with a proper pct of clomid and nolva, continue the diet and just keep growing? I am just afraid that I am not going to make any gains right now no matter how much I eat or how hard I train because I have ZERO test production.

 

[The Shadow]

I am just afraid that I am not going to make any gains right now no matter how much I eat or how hard I train because I have ZERO test production.

I thought you gained 9 pounds??


You need some professional help my friend, and I do not mean that in a cynical way. Im being serious

 

[silver_shadow]

you do need to relax and stop worrying so much... part of weightlifting and bodybuilding is also positivity... you're supposed to enjoy it, not stress yourself worrying about possible pitfalls, especially when you're doing things right. again, after what has it been - 2 wks and you've had some gains and you're still worrying. maybe you'd do good to get some professional help as shadow suggested today, not to mention 2 wks ago.

 

[JKurz1]

ok........just thought the low test was the prob........I completely understand the process...however, I am just afraid before I go that route that it was all because of my low caloric intake for years....rsulting in my body shutting down, etc...so, I am wondering if I do crank my cals and stay off or do a full cycle now with pct, will I be able to come back natually?

 

[fortunatesun]

actually i think the guy is jeff rodriguez in the middleweight category. rick mcmillan is a heavyweight.

damn. I just assumed as JK's prior target bodyweight was 220. I shouldn't post after working late. http://www.graphicmuscle.com/index.cfm?go2=contests_competitor&Competitorid=8142

 

[36drew]

ok........just thought the low test was the prob........I completely understand the process...however, I am just afraid before I go that route that it was all because of my low caloric intake for years....rsulting in my body shutting down, etc...so, I am wondering if I do crank my cals and stay off or do a full cycle now with pct, will I be able to come back natually?

I'd honestly recommend you buy a book called 'Stop Worrying and Start Living'. I cannot off hand recall the offer, but you should be able to find it at most book stores. It can turn your life into a sucess in so many ways, especially in the gym.

 

[JKurz1]

Sunday July 30th weight 164-65 (up from 160 two weeks ago)

Woke up this morning and decided to dit a little cardio. 30 minutes incline walk, 3.7 speed increasing from 7.0 ramp to 10.0 every 5 minutes

9:30
3/4 cuip oats
1/4 cup oat bran
12 egg whites
1 scoop whey

approx 54 carbd, 45pro, 5g fat

need one more meal at noon and then I'm going to train quads

LEG EXTENTION X 4 (WARMUP/PREEXHAUST)
MACHINE HACK SQUATS X 5 10,8,8,6,6
LEG PRESS NARROW X 4 12,10,8,8
LEG EXTENTION X 3

LUNGES X2
DBELL DEADS X 3

THEN ITS SHAKE TIME, FOLLOWED BY A HUGE DINNER AT GMAS. Probably will be low on calories, but I do have a cheat meal today 20 minutes to eat whatever. Just thinking of keeping it real, like a sundae or something cause I still got to get my prebed meal in.

SPoke to my trainer today who said he weighs 217 today. One week ago yesterday, he placed second aat the pitts. nationals at 175lbs....crazy weight gain, but he cliams he still has abs and its all clean calories....he's shoots for 40g pro/60g carb in 8 meals.
Watched him train back last week and the dude is pulling 5 plates, incred strength for a clean bb'er.....also got some tribulus, and tonka ali for my test levels...keep it natty. Also following Mr.X's adivce of .5 armidex every other day. Trainer said not to worry that Ive only gained 4lbs in 2 weeks...claims its right on point. And this is with two days of cardio only and missing a meal or two here and there from the layout. I need to try to stict to the diet to the tee.

 

[JKurz1]

Wondering what to do with these cases upon cases of protein bars I have...sitting in my cupboard for months. I am afraid if I start eating them, I wont be able to stop. Think I should sell them? Most say that they should be used in emergenices. That doesnt sit well with me. Anyone use them on a consisten basis on top of a normal bulking meal?

 

[The Shadow]

incred strength for a clean bb'er.....

*sticks baloon with pin*

...dude - he's NOT natty - just being realistic

 

[Island Son]

SPoke to my trainer today who said he weighs 217 today. One week ago yesterday, he placed second aat the pitts. nationals at 175lbs....crazy weight gain, but he cliams he still has abs and its all clean calories....he's shoots for 40g pro/60g carb in 8 meals.

i've never competed but say he was dehydrated and used exlax
15 lbs water plus 10 lbs internal that still leaves 17 lbs
so i'm calling bs

 

[JKurz1]

*sticks baloon with pin*

...dude - he's NOT natty - just being realistic

I can't agrue with you.....He's young and we've been pretty close, but I had my doubts too. I've accused him many times and he swears he's clean, although it's a def. route he will go in the future. But, I am with you....ok, he's not natty.

As for the other post, call bs all you want....I saw the comp pics and I saw him on the scale yesterday......trust me.....he's 217 and was 175 the night before.....If I didn;t see it with my own eyes, I wouldnt believe it either. Keep in mind, the night after the show, we are talking candy bars, pizza, steak, potatoes, ice cream....prob. a good 20lbs there.....the part I dont belive is his ability to see his four abs....thats where I call bs...but enough, this is not about him......

 

[The Shadow]

I can't agrue with you.....He's young and we've been pretty close, but I had my doubts too. I've accused him many times and he swears he's clean, although it's a def. route he will go in the future. But, I am with you....ok, he's not natty.

As for the other post, call bs all you want....I saw the comp pics and I saw him on the scale yesterday......trust me.....he's 217 and was 175 the night before.....If I didn;t see it with my own eyes, I wouldnt believe it either. Keep in mind, the night after the show, we are talking candy bars, pizza, steak, potatoes, ice cream....prob. a good 20lbs there.....the part I dont belive is his ability to see his four abs....thats where I call bs...but enough, this is not about him......

Then if you agree with me, do you feel that a natty in metabolic lag should follow a natl level competitor's diet/training plan??

 

[JKurz1]

The diet I think is solid and I am pretty sure you agree........

The part you are having a hard time with is the 2x a day training, and I am beginning to agree you are correct...take it through this week and reevalute?

I'm not following his outline....shit....he take in over 7K in cals......mine, if you recall from page one, is around 4,200.........and I am gainging 3-4 per week

Is the leg routine too much?

LEG EXTENTION X 4 (WARMUP/PREEXHAUST)
MACHINE HACK SQUATS X 5 10,8,8,6,6
LEG PRESS NARROW X 4 12,10,8,8
LEG EXTENTION X 3

light smit sqat feet in front X2
DBELL DEADS X 3

 

[BiggT]

JK, in my opinion, it isn't that the routine is "too much"....but in your case the shortest way to get from A to B is a straight line, that routine is like taking a million zig zags.

What you should be worried about right now is adding at least 150lbs to what you back squat and front squat for 5-8 reps. If you eat more than your burn off, that is your easy, non-complicated, straight line from point A (now) to point B (your goals).

My issue with 'bodybuilding routines' is that bodybuilding itself in the modern era is a joke where training is concerned. Sure, you have to eat properly, sure you have to train hard, BUT hard training is not efficient training in all cases. A complete lack of training theory knowledge exists in bodybuilding. A TOTAL reliance on anabolics masks the fact that most of the training is completely butt-headed, for lack of a better word.