Is 14 sets for back too much?

[SteelWeaver]

Uuuumm - it's been a while since I looked at it, but it was this programme, from a site on the net somewhere, that someone on the training board posted, that oulined exactly what to do for, like, I dunno - 12 weeks or something, starting with a week or two of rest, then heading into, I think, a 3 or 4 day split with reps kept in the 4-6 range for most stuff. Sorry - I can't remember exactly - they may have started higher then gone lower. Anyway, at the time I didn't feel like just mindlessly and thoughtlessly following a "recipe" - I never even follow REAL recipes properly, and I get rave reviews on my cooking!

Gosh, I sound rather confused here - colouring books and recipes.

Maybe that was another programme with the same name - are you talking about all the stuff Brian Haycock writes on ThinkMuscle?

 

[MS]

Yeah, confused. Blame it on the diet

"MS, could you tell me WHEN and WHERE the times and places are for high or low volume? This is my problem, and what
nobody has been very specific on - I don't know this stuff - I just want to learn."

Ummmm, on the one hand you want me to tell you when and where, but when I recommend a method that spells out when and where for you, you complain because it doesn't require any knowledge on your part....if THAT'S not confused!!!????

I am making my best non-novice gains ever using HST. But my HST doesn't sound anything like what you described, and I assure you it works (for me) whether or not I understand the why, or have any personal input into the plan.

And I have no intention of following HST for the rest of my life. Change is what makes us grow. When I stop growing on HST, I will change how I train.

 

[princess]

where can i find info on HST?

 

[princess]

nevermind...i just found the link on the training board.

 

[JJFigure]

I checked out HST - very interesting. I'm going to forward the link to my PL friend and see if we would incorporate more of this technique into my training. We're kind of merging PL and BB techniques; short rest intervals, training a bodypart 3 x week, but using more sets each workout. I'm also using three different lifts for each major muscle group - i.e., for legs I use squats, front squats, and lunges, and alternate each workout. I'm also not doing the smaller muscle groups 3x week, although I'm trying to work in biceps (using different grips) 2x week; triceps get hit plenty on my plan, and shoulders get hit plenty as well. My reps per set are also lower overall - HST does 15 for 2 weeks, 10 for 2 weeks, 5 for 4 weeks, 2 negs (or 5) for 2 weeks, then drops off the 15 during the next 8 week cycle. I never do more than 6 reps per working set. Hmmmm - I'll have to see what he has to say about it.

Lots of new challenges - gotta love this game!

 

[MS]

Yeah, something like that JJ. I use the 15 reps weeks as a type of active recovery...only do one working set per exercise. When I hit the 10 and 5 reps weeks, I increase the sets to two per exercise. I don't do the negatives (even Haycock considers them optional). If you do the negatives, he recommends taking two weeks of completely before starting back with the 10 rep scheme.

I aim to almost fail on the 6th workout of each 2 week block. So the start of each two week block is also a little like active recovery/training holiday. It doesn't really matter, as long as you are increasing your max weight at the end of each cycle even just a smidgen, and as long as you take a break and lighten up at the beginning of each two week block and the end of each 6-8 week cycle. It's all about TUT and adequate recovery. I also alternate exercises from one session to the next, eg shoulder presses one day, upright rows the next session, then back to shoulder presses. I try to superset opposing muscles, but that's all just fine detail and isn't critical.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Merciless, MS - you are a merciless woman! But apparently (judging by how my legs feel) I come from the masochism school of bodybuilding, so it's all good to me (Anyway, it's hardly a fair match, even if my brain were in tip-top hypercalorically nutriented shape - geez, I can hardly remember my own name nowadays).

OK, I think this is how my learning process works: introduction to principles, model, practice, synthesise and apply. I've read tons of books, which theoretically has given me the introduction to principles. And, being thick headed and impulsive, I think I've been jumping straight to synthesise and apply, without following decent models first. When I asked WHEN and WHERE, I was looking for a model, not a cookie cutter - different things, no?

Change - yes, I love change That's how come it was so easy for me to drop my volume Funny though, I have a little note on my desk that says "change is only as bad as we fear it to be".

Um, so to clarify - we ARE talking about the stuff Haycock writes about, yes? OK, I'm gonna go check it out, tra la la ....

 

[JJFigure]

I sent my PL friend the link to the HST site - he found it interesting, but thought the progressive volumes to be a little outdated. I see him tonight so I"ll grill him a little on the subject.

 

[Realgains]

THE PLAIN TRUTH.....go ahead flame me

14 sets are too much!

You should be able to really exhaust the entire back with the following...

pulldowns with a barbell curl grip and wrist straps 2 sets of 8-10 after a warm up set.
Rows 2 sets o 8
Deadlfts of some kind, 1-2 sets of 10 after progressive warm ups.

Train very strictly and VERY hard. Focus on adding small to tiny bits of weight to the bar/stack each week. When the going gets tough even a pound per week to the lat work and 2-3 pounds per week on the deadlift is good progress.
get some tiny plates www.fractionalplates.com


The vast majority will go nowhere doing high volume medium intensity training without a significant amount of steroids.

RG

 

[T Bone]

My current back work consists of;
3 X 8-10rep Work sets of Bent Rows OR T-Bar Rows, (with warm-ups)
3 X 8-10rep pull-ups w/close grip handle.

Thats all, because i'm clean. It's working good.

T Bone