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Intermittent Fasting discussion thread!!

Rustilldown said:
Hey Rick I have a Q for you bro !

I have dabbled with IF and the warrior diet a few times in the past and every time I have become ripped to shreds but lose muscle.

I work a construction schedule of 14 on 7 off. Those 14 days are fairly physical work every day. Does this change anything or can I still fast from 8 pm 12. pm(lunch) have a snack at lunch, an oats n whey shake at 4pm ( pre workout ) and then plow back like 3k of food for dinner post workout? I am going to give it a shot starting now but I am curious to your take on fasting while working construction.


Ride it like you stole it!!
Click to expand...


Yeh, you can still do it...but the reason you may have lost performance and/or muscle in the past is because you may not have been eating enough on those days. Due to the high physical demands of your job, you will be burning much more calories, so you will have to make up that difference that you burn in food. Instead of having a snack for your fast breaker at noon and an oats and whey shake at 4 PM, it would be better to make bigger meals out of these. On no workout days you can probably stick to your original plan just fine, but on workout days, I would make the effort to pack the food in those days. I don't know how much food you will need to eat, but depending on how much energy you use during work, you may need to take an extra 2k or more on top of maintenance those days, so keep that in mind and make sure to get plenty of cals in on those days. Having a big fast breaker, a medium sized meal around 4 PM, and a huge dinner would be a good start. Then like I said, you can keep the cals lower on your nonworkout days and you will shred the hell up and probably build a little strength and muscle in the process! ;)
 
Thx for the fast reply rick, I'm going to begin today. Last meal was at 8pm last night and I am not overly starved as of yet. When I was legitimately gaining off cycle, I was consuming around 5000calories every day. But I ended up so bloated I couldn't deal with it and that was eating 6 meals a day. I am going to aim for the outline you have laid out for me. Meal 1. 4 whole eggs, tuna sandwich, orange, mixed nuts. Can of sardines. About 1000 calories

Meal 2- 1.5 cups of oats scoop of whey, tablespoon of cinnamon like 850 cals

Meal 3 ( post workout)

2500-3000 calories of lean meats, rice, milk , whatever else that is low sodium.. And yes I can eat that much at one sitting I have done it before :):)

I'm Going to aim for this for now and see what happens. And will tweak as I go!

I may just do this everyday for now whether I train or not because I do work hard every day. On my 7 days off I will lower cal intake.

Let's see how this goes I feel less lethargic today already compared to having a big breakfast of pancakes!

I still have a visible 6 pack but for once Id like to see the 8 while remaining close to 200 lbs... Rather than droppingnto like 180. I'd even like to keep gaining weight but one step at a time.



Ride it like you stole it!!
 
Hey Rick have a question -

I am trying to drop body fat as fast as possible and am taking IF a little further.
About 20-22 hours and consuming a deficit of about 1k under maintenance.
At some point is there diminishing returns?
Im on cycle with tren which will preserve muscle mass under the severe constraints
 
Rustilldown said:
Thx for the fast reply rick, I'm going to begin today. Last meal was at 8pm last night and I am not overly starved as of yet. When I was legitimately gaining off cycle, I was consuming around 5000calories every day. But I ended up so bloated I couldn't deal with it and that was eating 6 meals a day. I am going to aim for the outline you have laid out for me. Meal 1. 4 whole eggs, tuna sandwich, orange, mixed nuts. Can of sardines. About 1000 calories

Meal 2- 1.5 cups of oats scoop of whey, tablespoon of cinnamon like 850 cals

Meal 3 ( post workout)

2500-3000 calories of lean meats, rice, milk , whatever else that is low sodium.. And yes I can eat that much at one sitting I have done it before :):)

I'm Going to aim for this for now and see what happens. And will tweak as I go!

I may just do this everyday for now whether I train or not because I do work hard every day. On my 7 days off I will lower cal intake.

Let's see how this goes I feel less lethargic today already compared to having a big breakfast of pancakes!

I still have a visible 6 pack but for once Id like to see the 8 while remaining close to 200 lbs... Rather than droppingnto like 180. I'd even like to keep gaining weight but one step at a time.



Ride it like you stole it!!
Click to expand...


Sounds like a good plan and way to start man. You can always adjust as needed ;)
 
Shade_star said:
Hey Rick have a question -

I am trying to drop body fat as fast as possible and am taking IF a little further.
About 20-22 hours and consuming a deficit of about 1k under maintenance.
At some point is there diminishing returns?
Im on cycle with tren which will preserve muscle mass under the severe constraints
Click to expand...


What you are doing right now would not be ideal unless you are on cycle. That is how you are getting away with 1k under maintenance daily with the extended fasts. Ideally under "normal" circumstances you would want that balance between having a caloric surplus on workout days with the caloric deficit on cardio/rest days to preserve and add muscle while shredding, but on cycle things change and you can shred up very quickly by keeping a bigger deficit over more days like you have done.


There is not a point of diminished returns with IF, as some people have taken it clear up to contest prep. You may have to make adjustments along the way as you get leaner. Obviously the lighter you get, the lower your maintenance is, and as you get really lean (under 6-8%) you may have to make further adjustments cutting things like carbs and dairy way down to make further progress, but that would be more of a contest prep situation.
 
OK cool - I plan to run such large deficits until the BF gets lower - probably at 12-13 now all situated right on the lower stomach underneath the belly button and around to the back.
Looking to go to 9-10.
Hitting 2 miles of running in the morning then the normal weight routine 6 days
Man going to even larger deficts would suck but it is what it is! Thanks for the input.



RickRock13 said:
What you are doing right now would not be ideal unless you are on cycle. That is how you are getting away with 1k under maintenance daily with the extended fasts. Ideally under "normal" circumstances you would want that balance between having a caloric surplus on workout days with the caloric deficit on cardio/rest days to preserve and add muscle while shredding, but on cycle things change and you can shred up very quickly by keeping a bigger deficit over more days like you have done.


There is not a point of diminished returns with IF, as some people have taken it clear up to contest prep. You may have to make adjustments along the way as you get leaner. Obviously the lighter you get, the lower your maintenance is, and as you get really lean (under 6-8%) you may have to make further adjustments cutting things like carbs and dairy way down to make further progress, but that would be more of a contest prep situation.
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Out of my 6 day routing.. 2 of those days are a full ab circuit... 6 exercises 30 second jump rope after each exercise. I do that circuit 4 to 5 times and then cardio. Should I keep my calories low on that day since there aren't really any weights involved? I plan on using if to bulk for 6 months starting october and was thinking of keeping my macros on maintenance those 2 days and surplus for the 4 days where I do weight training. It's gonna be a natural bulk cause I'm done with gear for a few years I'm 22 and already done 3 cycles so I wanna quit while I'm ahead.
 
Trying to figure out the best way to IF, I work late nights, get home around 3am, go to gym around 10 am - 11 am . What would be the best time frame for me to fast. Don't want to go to the gym and not have any energy from not eating.
 
Rick,

Just started the IF following pretty much the amalgamated knowledge you have generously offered here. I have one more question. I am on a test only cycle (the only cycle I really ever do - 600mg/week). Do you find on your fasting days your body feels rubbery and flat. And if you are doing alternate days, do you not find it tough rev'ing up to your lifting workout on the back of a fairly restricted intake the day before....?

Cheers pal...
 
dubbzero said:
Out of my 6 day routing.. 2 of those days are a full ab circuit... 6 exercises 30 second jump rope after each exercise. I do that circuit 4 to 5 times and then cardio. Should I keep my calories low on that day since there aren't really any weights involved? I plan on using if to bulk for 6 months starting october and was thinking of keeping my macros on maintenance those 2 days and surplus for the 4 days where I do weight training. It's gonna be a natural bulk cause I'm done with gear for a few years I'm 22 and already done 3 cycles so I wanna quit while I'm ahead.
Click to expand...

You could do maintenance those days if you wanted while bulking,but don't be surprised if you gain a little bodyfat in the process. If it were me, I would keep those days at lower cals under maintenance. If you want to bulk more, add the cals in on workout days for the surplus. Eat for the goal that day, and you can reap the benefits of building lean muscle while not gaining fat
 
Dannydflc said:
Trying to figure out the best way to IF, I work late nights, get home around 3am, go to gym around 10 am - 11 am . What would be the best time frame for me to fast. Don't want to go to the gym and not have any energy from not eating.
Click to expand...

You should structure your eating and fasting around whenever is the most convenient for you.

As for training fasted, you would be surprised at how much energy you can have on an empty stomach. In my experience, I have no negative effects from training on an empty stomach. It kinda goes with the myth of having to eat every 2-3 hours....its been disproven by science and real world experience that it is unnecessary.
 
ghostrider1000 said:
Rick,

Just started the IF following pretty much the amalgamated knowledge you have generously offered here. I have one more question. I am on a test only cycle (the only cycle I really ever do - 600mg/week). Do you find on your fasting days your body feels rubbery and flat. And if you are doing alternate days, do you not find it tough rev'ing up to your lifting workout on the back of a fairly restricted intake the day before....?

Cheers pal...
Click to expand...

As long as your workout days are high enough in cals and carbs, you shouldn't notice your workouts being effected at all....even following a low cal, low carb day.

The feeling on those lower days of being flat and depleted is normal too, as you are using your glycogen stores for energy which leads to looking not as full. You fill up big on workout days and will see yourself swell right back up. Its part of the carb cycling. Your weight will even fluctuate up to 3-5 lbs between build and burn days ;)
 
RickRock13 said:
You could do maintenance those days if you wanted while bulking,but don't be surprised if you gain a little bodyfat in the process. If it were me, I would keep those days at lower cals under maintenance. If you want to bulk more, add the cals in on workout days for the surplus. Eat for the goal that day, and you can reap the benefits of building lean muscle while not gaining fat
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. I wanna try to minimize fat gain so I'm gonna keep it surplus on the 4 lifting days, and under matainence on the 2 ab circuit days + rest day. My diet is literally spot on and all healthy clean food and lots of veggies so the fat gain during my bulk should be almost none at all actually
 
I was always taught that your body can only consume (use or how ever you want to say it) so many cals,carbs,fats,proteins at once. And that the rest is waisted or stored as fat. Is that true or just a myth from broscience?
 
Rick, what's your take on alcohol? And I mean a beer with your Saturday night meal, bearing in mind I'm on cycle and Saturday is a workout day....

Also, I agree that workout days feel like cheating! Not easy to get 1.5k of clean cals in, in one go........maybe I'll adjust.....
 
Pitbull84 said:
Rick,

Is it okay to drink plain black coffee rite before fasted cardio..?
Click to expand...

I used to do this . Some
Of the best workouts in my life
We're 24 hours fasted with an extra large black coffee. First time I ever deadlifted 405 was after a 24 hour fast and large coffee.


Ride it like you stole it!!
 
day 2 into recomp mode both been high cal days at about 3600 to 3800 , struggling to get in all the caloriea lol another high day tomorrow before a welcome low day on wed , weight up 4 lbs haha but reckon becauae feeling bloated with the adjustment.

still working on macros , pro a bit high still at 400 a day , carbs around 300 and fats 120 or so
 
Pitbull84 said:
I was always taught that your body can only consume (use or how ever you want to say it) so many cals,carbs,fats,proteins at once. And that the rest is waisted or stored as fat. Is that true or just a myth from broscience?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a myth. It has been scientifically proven that your body will break down protein into aminos to synthesize for muscle for 24 hours or more after ingestion.

And then take into account real world experience and it makes total sense. Ive built mire muscle on IF than when I was eating 6 times per day
 
ghostrider1000 said:
Rick, what's your take on alcohol? And I mean a beer with your Saturday night meal, bearing in mind I'm on cycle and Saturday is a workout day....

Also, I agree that workout days feel like cheating! Not easy to get 1.5k of clean cals in, in one go........maybe I'll adjust.....
Click to expand...

My advice to you would be to enjoy life within moderation....I certainly do. One of the best part of IF is its freedoms that traditional dieting doesn't allow. Sometimes when I go to dinner with my wife I want a beer, so I have one. As long as you primarily stay within the confines of your macros and cals, your choices are pretty open. If my daughter wants to go for ice cream, I go with her and have some. If the family wants pizza, we order pizza. If I was in contest prep, I would have to change some things, but I'm not and I maintain the bodyfat in my avi doing all those things. Just KNOW your limits and stay within them.

The best part of IF to me, is the fact that my diet doesn't cause strain on my family or others. I get to indulge more than most that are on any other diet and what we eat isn't always about "me and my goals". Too often we get wrapped up in our lifestyles and don't realize the impact it can have on others ;)
 
Pitbull84 said:
Rick,

Is it okay to drink plain black coffee rite before fasted cardio..?
Click to expand...

Hell yeh it's ok!! I love stimulants before fasted cardio, and black coffee works well. Just know that if you add any sugar, milk, or cream it would have an impact on insulin release and could break the fast. A very small amount probably wouldn't hurt though
 
dubbzero said:
Thanks for your response. I wanna try to minimize fat gain so I'm gonna keep it surplus on the 4 lifting days, and under matainence on the 2 ab circuit days + rest day. My diet is literally spot on and all healthy clean food and lots of veggies so the fat gain during my bulk should be almost none at all actually
Click to expand...

If you are in a caloric surplus there will be fat gain!!

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness
 
Thanks Rick!

Btw IM LOVING THIS "IF" STUFF!! It's the SH*T!!!!! Day 3, I don't think I'll ever go back to eating 6-7 meals a day. My stomach is already looking leaner and feeling tighter. Man I wish I would of known about "IF" a long time ago. Thanks again Rick for starting this thread. Keep the thread going so I keep on learning.
 
RickRock13 said:
The best part of IF to me, is the fact that my diet doesn't cause strain on my family or others. I get to indulge more than most that are on any other diet and what we eat isn't always about "me and my goals". Too often we get wrapped up in our lifestyles and don't realize the impact it can have on others ;)
Click to expand...

This is the main reason I think I'll start this type of diet.
Well said Rick.
 
IF is most definitely a "lifestyle change". There are so many benefits to it other than just the obvious physical changes. Its a hassle and time consuming to eat multiple times a day. IF takes that out of the equation by only eating 2-3 meals a day, so less than half of the meal prep and eating time. Even while "cutting" I get to indulge which is nice, and nearly every workout day feels like a cheat day. Its nothing but win for me all the way around.

I remember times in the past on traditional diets where I would bulk up during the winter with quite a bit of fat gained, then cut up in the spring spending a good 3 months or more getting to a reasonable level. No more! Now I am leaner than I've ever been, and still was able to add 15 lbs to my frame during "cutting season". When I go into winter I will add more, but I will always stay in single digit bodyfat ranges thanks to IF :)
 
RickRock13 said:
IF is most definitely a "lifestyle change". There are so many benefits to it other than just the obvious physical changes. Its a hassle and time consuming to eat multiple times a day. IF takes that out of the equation by only eating 2-3 meals a day, so less than half of the meal prep and eating time. Even while "cutting" I get to indulge which is nice, and nearly every workout day feels like a cheat day. Its nothing but win for me all the way around.

I remember times in the past on traditional diets where I would bulk up during the winter with quite a bit of fat gained, then cut up in the spring spending a good 3 months or more getting to a reasonable level. No more! Now I am leaner than I've ever been, and still was able to add 15 lbs to my frame during "cutting season". When I go into winter I will add more, but I will always stay in single digit bodyfat ranges thanks to IF :)
Click to expand...

Yep...this is the best lifestyle change I ever did besides bodybuilding. I will be staying on IF even through my 16 week cycle, and eating 4000+ calories in my 8 hour feed window...it will be challenging, but I love not being a slave to the eat every 3 hours way...and I eat so damn clean anyway, I can surplus my calories and keep single digits just like you Rick! 9.4% currently!
 
Hi guys, I need some help with IF.

My goal is to lose fat as im currently sitting at about 20% BF. I've tried IF a few times but it's failed dues to me working shifts at work and them being random times.

Could I feed in the morning say from 8-12, or feed in the evening from 7-11 ?

Or would it be better to do 24hour fasts everyday?

Thanks guys
 
yashdutt said:
Hi guys, I need some help with IF.

My goal is to lose fat as im currently sitting at about 20% BF. I've tried IF a few times but it's failed dues to me working shifts at work and them being random times.

Could I feed in the morning say from 8-12, or feed in the evening from 7-11 ?

Or would it be better to do 24hour fasts everyday?

Thanks guys
Click to expand...

If u fast 24 hours everyday ypu will get pretty hungry after a week :) hihi
 
yashdutt said:
Hi guys, I need some help with IF.

My goal is to lose fat as im currently sitting at about 20% BF. I've tried IF a few times but it's failed dues to me working shifts at work and them being random times.

Could I feed in the morning say from 8-12, or feed in the evening from 7-11 ?

Or would it be better to do 24hour fasts everyday?

Thanks guys
Click to expand...


Yeh, you could do a shorter 4 hour window every day if you wanted to, or even a 24 hour fast each day. It's very similar to the warrior diet, which is basically just having one very large meal per day. The only problem I see, is trying to get all your cals in in the short time period. For some people it wouldn't be a problem, but some days (workout days) you really need to be in a surplus to maintain muscle and strength, and a shorter window every day makes that more difficult. On workout days you may want to go with at least the 4 hour window, that way you can get a couple decent sized meals in that feeding window to hit your caloric targets. A shorter window or even a 24 hour fast on non-workout days is fine because your cals will be under maintenance and fat burn is the goal on those days.
 
Hmmm up 6 lbs since last fri, have had 3 high days and now today did 70 cardio and low cal day, will get a more accurate idea next week monday but i will take 6lbs thank u very much haha
 
CSB said:
Hmmm up 6 lbs since last fri, have had 3 high days and now today did 70 cardio and low cal day, will get a more accurate idea next week monday but i will take 6lbs thank u very much haha
Click to expand...

That may be mostly from higher carb intake and glycogen uptake. Depending on whether you check weight following a high carb day or low carb day. Weight can fluctuate up to 3-5 lbs on those days.
 
RickRock13 said:
Yeh, you could do a shorter 4 hour window every day if you wanted to, or even a 24 hour fast each day. It's very similar to the warrior diet, which is basically just having one very large meal per day. The only problem I see, is trying to get all your cals in in the short time period. For some people it wouldn't be a problem, but some days (workout days) you really need to be in a surplus to maintain muscle and strength, and a shorter window every day makes that more difficult. On workout days you may want to go with at least the 4 hour window, that way you can get a couple decent sized meals in that feeding window to hit your caloric targets. A shorter window or even a 24 hour fast on non-workout days is fine because your cals will be under maintenance and fat burn is the goal on those days.
Click to expand...

I see, so alternate windows would be better for me. 24hour on non-workout/cardio days. And a 4 hour window on workout days. Sounds pretty manageable!

Could I continue my keto diet with IF or would that eat away at my muscle even more?

Thanks rick
 
yashdutt said:
I see, so alternate windows would be better for me. 24hour on non-workout/cardio days. And a 4 hour window on workout days. Sounds pretty manageable!

Could I continue my keto diet with IF or would that eat away at my muscle even more?

Thanks rick
Click to expand...

I've known some people to use Keto with IF, but I'm more of a fan of cycling carbs on a day to day basis with IF. Keeping the carbs high on workout days with the carbs low (or even zero) on non workout days us better at muscle retention and gain IMO. I am a firm believer in carbs after workouts for glycogen replenishing and feeding the muscle
 
RickRock13 said:
I've known some people to use Keto with IF, but I'm more of a fan of cycling carbs on a day to day basis with IF. Keeping the carbs high on workout days with the carbs low (or even zero) on non workout days us better at muscle retention and gain IMO. I am a firm believer in carbs after workouts for glycogen replenishing and feeding the muscle
Click to expand...

I think I'll give cycling carbs a try. What would a calorie% split look like on a workout day? P:40 C:40 F:20?
Non workout days? P:40 C:0 F:60?

Also what's your opinion on carbs after fasted cardio?

Thanks mate you've been a great help
 
yashdutt said:
I think I'll give cycling carbs a try. What would a calorie% split look like on a workout day? P:40 C:40 F:20?
Non workout days? P:40 C:0 F:60?

Also what's your opinion on carbs after fasted cardio?

Thanks mate you've been a great help
Click to expand...

That split would work fine, but it really is user dependant based on how sensitive you are to carbs etc...that is a good start to adjust from if need be though.

On days I do fasted cardio, (non workout days) I do low to no carbs.

Always eat for your goal. When doing cardio on a day, the goal should be to burn fat. To do this more effectively you should keep the carbs very low those days.

On days you workout the carbs would be moderate to high.
 
RickRock13 said:
That split would work fine, but it really is user dependant based on how sensitive you are to carbs etc...that is a good start to adjust from if need be though.

On days I do fasted cardio, (non workout days) I do low to no carbs.

Always eat for your goal. When doing cardio on a day, the goal should be to burn fat. To do this more effectively you should keep the carbs very low those days.

On days you workout the carbs would be moderate to high.
Click to expand...

I think I'm just gonna try that split and then see how my body reacts to it.

Thanks for the help rick
 
yashdutt said:
What kinds of carbs can you eat while doing IF for it to be beneficial? Would sushi rice be ok
Click to expand...

Take in whatever carbs you want bro. Obviously there are healthier complex carb choices than others like brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc...but that doesn't stop me from enjoying some nice simple carbs and sugars during my feed either like breads and pastas. Actually a good mix of complex and simple carbs is ideal. The simple carbs are great for immediate and quick insulin spike and the complex carbs are great for replenishing glycogen stores and long lasting energy. Best of both worlds ;)
 
RickRock13 said:
That may be mostly from higher carb intake and glycogen uptake. Depending on whether you check weight following a high carb day or low carb day. Weight can fluctuate up to 3-5 lbs on those days.
Click to expand...

I usually weigh everyday lol but dont take much note of high days and rather use depleted state as my basekine, lowest before was 210, lowest after 70 cardio yesterday was 214 lbs but next monday will be more accurate after two low days in a row 60 cardio per day.

Also need bf checked asap, started cycleon the weekend as well. :verygood:
 
soooooooo just come back from my evaluation and ttaaddaaaa

7.9 % bodyfat off calipers , very very happy now :)
 
yashdutt said:
I think I'll give cycling carbs a try. What would a calorie% split look like on a workout day? P:40 C:40 F:20?
Non workout days? P:40 C:0 F:60?

Also what's your opinion on carbs after fasted cardio?

Thanks mate you've been a great help
Click to expand...

To me, cardio is a non workout day. Unless you are doing some intense HIIT. I freaking hate cardio! !!

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness
 
ballerj63 said:
To me, cardio is a non workout day. Unless you are doing some intense HIIT. I freaking hate cardio! !!

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

Yep...any and all cardio is considered a non workout day in my book.

And if you are doing fasted cardio its best to stick to LISS or moderate intensity cardio.
 
hey rick, what i'm doing is my maintenance calories are 1700, so on weight training days i take in 2200 calories 45% protein 40% carbs and 15% fat, and on resting and ab circuit days i'm doing 1447 calrories 60% protein 35% fat and 5% carbs. you think that would do the job in shredding me? i plan on doing cardio every work out. 15 minutes HIIT followed by 15 minutes full incline steady pace walk. I weight train 4 days and 2 days where i do full ab circuits.
 
dubbzero said:
hey rick, what i'm doing is my maintenance calories are 1700, so on weight training days i take in 2200 calories 45% protein 40% carbs and 15% fat, and on resting and ab circuit days i'm doing 1447 calrories 60% protein 35% fat and 5% carbs. you think that would do the job in shredding me? i plan on doing cardio every work out. 15 minutes HIIT followed by 15 minutes full incline steady pace walk. I weight train 4 days and 2 days where i do full ab circuits.
Click to expand...


If your maintenance cals are accurate, then you would probably need more days in a deficit than days in a surplus to really see the drop in bodyfat. As of now it looks like you have 4 days in a surplus with only 3 days in a deficit. This way gives you an average surplus for the week.

Also to create a bigger burn, why not do the cardio on your ab circuit days and keep the cardio away from workout days when the goal is to build muscle?
 
I wanna retain muscle and just drop body fat. I'll adjust my macros I guess. Gonna drop it to 2000 calrories and keep a 300 calorie surplus instead of 500
 
dubbzero said:
I wanna retain muscle and just drop body fat. I'll adjust my macros I guess. Gonna drop it to 2000 calrories and keep a 300 calorie surplus instead of 500
Click to expand...

Anytime you need more of a fat burn you need to either make the defecit by having more "burn" days or baking the burn days you have a bigger defecit. You can go just about as low as you want on those days as far as cals, without having to worry about catabolism. Remember that the body can go 36-40 hours FASTED without any catabolism at all, as long as you are getting enough on your workout days. Adding in cardio on your non workout days will get your defecit bigger also.

No matter how you slice it, you need to be at an average defecit for the week to see a loss, so we try to do this by tricking our bodies into burning fat and keeping all the muscle by keeping workout days high and non workout days low. That is the core of how this protocol works, and should be the basis of your plan ;)
 
RickRock13 said:
Anytime you need more of a fat burn you need to either make the defecit by having more "burn" days or baking the burn days you have a bigger defecit. You can go just about as low as you want on those days as far as cals, without having to worry about catabolism. Remember that the body can go 36-40 hours FASTED without any catabolism at all, as long as you are getting enough on your workout days. Adding in cardio on your non workout days will get your defecit bigger also.

No matter how you slice it, you need to be at an average defecit for the week to see a loss, so we try to do this by tricking our bodies into burning fat and keeping all the muscle by keeping workout days high and non workout days low. That is the core of how this protocol works, and should be the basis of your plan ;)
Click to expand...

He is the guru of IF! Loving all of this valuable info Rick...I am going with IF on my upcoming cycle for sure...it is a lifestyle change that is for good!
 
What is the feeling on meal timing? I always thought it was bs that I needed some protein within 30 mins of my workout or whatever. So if I am doing IF, and my feed window starts at 12 pm and i go lift at 9 am I dont have to worry about a protein shake post work out? Would it be fine to wait 2 hrs after working out to have a shake/real food?
 
rms13 said:
What is the feeling on meal timing? I always thought it was bs that I needed some protein within 30 mins of my workout or whatever. So if I am doing IF, and my feed window starts at 12 pm and i go lift at 9 am I dont have to worry about a protein shake post work out? Would it be fine to wait 2 hrs after working out to have a shake/real food?
Click to expand...

It's fine to wait 2 hours post workout. Your body is getting more time to use that stored body fat!!
 
Im ready to start IF. Would simply skipping breakfast be a good starting point? That would give me a 12-14 fast every day.
 
rms13 said:
What is the feeling on meal timing? I always thought it was bs that I needed some protein within 30 mins of my workout or whatever. So if I am doing IF, and my feed window starts at 12 pm and i go lift at 9 am I dont have to worry about a protein shake post work out? Would it be fine to wait 2 hrs after working out to have a shake/real food?
Click to expand...

Yes it is fine to wait after your workout for food. It is part of the whole IF protocol. I can't cover everything in this post, but everything you want to know is on the first few pages of this thread.if you are considering doing this, then reading that would be a good start.

One thing I will say, is that while doing fasted workouts are fine with IF, BCAAs are recommended to be ingested before workout, after workout, and every two hours during the fast before your feeding begins. This keeps protein synthesis going which is crucial after the muscle breakdown that occurs from a workout.
 
I've been interested in this intermittent fasting idea for a few months now, did some research and incorporated it to my lifestyle (not 'diet', I never diet) 5 weeks ago.

Use a 24h fast from 8pm to 8pm following day every third day. So Mon-fast, Tue-maint.cals (2800) - Wed-maint.cals - Thur-fast - etc.

My training has stayed identical.
Weights 2-3x week full body comp lifts (deads/squats/chins/rows/DB benches/cleans), 6-8 reps for 4 sets per lift.
Cardio - light HIIT (4-6 reps of 30sec all-out sprints on track or elyptical), now done just before meal that breaks the fast.

Well, I just got my blood work done a 2nd time, and had it compared to the one from 5 weeks ago:

Aside from being 7lbs lighter (coming from 204lbs 6'0" -/+ 11%bf)- my strength is stable so no reason to suspect muscle catabolism - my HDL is up, LDL stable, triglycerides markedly down, blood sugar almost halved, test slightly down (but utterly negligable amount to worry about muscle loss), and no negative markers of any kind, somewhat surprisingly.

It just makes sense really. We've been led to believe that not eating is the bane of fitness and health - I mean imagine what the supplement and food industry stands to lose if we were to actually eat significantly less each week!

I mean think about it - the industry tells us that if you don't eat, you will 'hold your fat reserves'.... Are you telling me that your body won't use it's fat stores if you don't eat or eat a lot less? Think about how contra-intuitive that sounds. Fat is energy stored to use when no sustenance is consumed. Surely that's simple enough?

Fasting for anything over 12 hours will decrease insulin levels, increase growth hormone & catecholamine secretion (both of which will increase lipolysis) and downregulate the receptors that 'hold on to lipids' in fat cells thus making it easier for your blood to absorb these lipids and use as energy. Result - your body will use your fat reserves.

The 'myth' of your body 'holding on' to fat reserves during calorie-restriction and burning muscle instead has really gone on long enough. It just doesn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view:
No food = even more need to be sharp and keep strength to hunt and gather - so use only stored lipids for energy, keep muscle & increase alertness.
Plenty food = no need to be sharp, or awake for that matter (see drowsiness after large meals, poor ability to concentrate, no need whatsoever to tap into lipid reserves...)

I'm starting to think this honestly is the 'holy grail' of getting/staying lean and optimalising health. And I hate using such terminology, but it might just be true this time.
 
cunninglinguist said:
I've been interested in this intermittent fasting idea for a few months now, did some research and incorporated it to my lifestyle (not 'diet', I never diet) 5 weeks ago.

Use a 24h fast from 8pm to 8pm following day every third day. So Mon-fast, Tue-maint.cals (2800) - Wed-maint.cals - Thur-fast - etc.

My training has stayed identical.
Weights 2-3x week full body comp lifts (deads/squats/chins/rows/DB benches/cleans), 6-8 reps for 4 sets per lift.
Cardio - light HIIT (4-6 reps of 30sec all-out sprints on track or elyptical), now done just before meal that breaks the fast.

Well, I just got my blood work done a 2nd time, and had it compared to the one from 5 weeks ago:

Aside from being 7lbs lighter (coming from 204lbs 6'0" -/+ 11%bf)- my strength is stable so no reason to suspect muscle catabolism - my HDL is up, LDL stable, triglycerides markedly down, blood sugar almost halved, test slightly down (but utterly negligable amount to worry about muscle loss), and no negative markers of any kind, somewhat surprisingly.

It just makes sense really. We've been led to believe that not eating is the bane of fitness and health - I mean imagine what the supplement and food industry stands to lose if we were to actually eat significantly less each week!

I mean think about it - the industry tells us that if you don't eat, you will 'hold your fat reserves'.... Are you telling me that your body won't use it's fat stores if you don't eat or eat a lot less? Think about how contra-intuitive that sounds. Fat is energy stored to use when no sustenance is consumed. Surely that's simple enough?

Fasting for anything over 12 hours will decrease insulin levels, increase growth hormone & catecholamine secretion (both of which will increase lipolysis) and downregulate the receptors that 'hold on to lipids' in fat cells thus making it easier for your blood to absorb these lipids and use as energy. Result - your body will use your fat reserves.

The 'myth' of your body 'holding on' to fat reserves during calorie-restriction and burning muscle instead has really gone on long enough. It just doesn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view:
No food = even more need to be sharp and keep strength to hunt and gather - so use only stored lipids for energy, keep muscle & increase alertness.
Plenty food = no need to be sharp, or awake for that matter (see drowsiness after large meals, poor ability to concentrate, no need whatsoever to tap into lipid reserves...)

I'm starting to think this honestly is the 'holy grail' of getting/staying lean and optimalising health. And I hate using such terminology, but it might just be true this time.
Click to expand...

Good stuff man! Thanks for sharing your experience, and the valuable information as well! :)
 
I started IF about 3 weeks ago and dropped 28lbs so far!

It's ridiculous how much leaner I got. I didn't lose any strength, in fact I increased my lifts. Not much maybe 10lbs for all my major lifts.

Don't knock it until you try it. Take advise only from those who have tried it. Give it a shot, if it works for you then great, if it doesn't then stop. Give it a week and you'll be impressed.
 
BodybyJoel said:
I started IF about 3 weeks ago and dropped 28lbs so far!

It's ridiculous how much leaner I got. I didn't lose any strength, in fact I increased my lifts. Not much maybe 10lbs for all my major lifts.

Don't knock it until you try it. Take advise only from those who have tried it. Give it a shot, if it works for you then great, if it doesn't then stop. Give it a week and you'll be impressed.
Click to expand...

You lost 28 lbs in 3 weeks? That is pretty impressive, but that is a lot higher than the recommended rate for weight loss depending on your current condition. I'm assuming you are pretty overweight, because those that are lose weight at a more substantial rate than those that arent
 
I just started my 1st day of leangains diet yesterday. I lift three days a week around 5pm and on my off days, at least twice a week, I plan on running on the treadmill at 5am. I fast from 8 pm - 12pm. What should I take after running at 5am? Bcaa? Before or after work out ? What frequency?

As far as meals on lift days. 25% at 12, 25% at 4 and 50% after workout. Is this right?

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
 
IF is the best thing that has ever happened to me!!! : ) I have never been in such good shape even back when I discovered Gear! I mean I would get great results but never like this! IF & gear = AMAZING RESULTS! Plus you feel so much healthier! If it wasn't for this thread I would of never have it a try. And oh MAN AM I HAPPY I DID! I help manage a gym and its funny how I once said talked about IF and all the staff and especially Trainers thought I was crazy & that I was starving my self and ect.. But the other day after being on IF for a Lil over a month try saw me working out with only a tank top and they couldn't stop looking at all the gains I've made and how much leaner and bigger and better I GOT! And all I said to them was "Man this IF, you know starving myself?" Is no Bueno! (In a sarcastic voice) LOL
Man thanks again Rick for starting this Thread! You helped change my life!
 
PS.. I'm also stronger than EVER!! (Natural) of course with gear I've been super strong but I'm talking about being Natty
 
AliAli said:
I just started my 1st day of leangains diet yesterday. I lift three days a week around 5pm and on my off days, at least twice a week, I plan on running on the treadmill at 5am. I fast from 8 pm - 12pm. What should I take after running at 5am? Bcaa? Before or after work out ? What frequency?

As far as meals on lift days. 25% at 12, 25% at 4 and 50% after workout. Is this right?

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


The only time BCAAs are recommended are before and after workouts when they are done in the fasted state and then every two hours before breaking fast. It is not absolutely necessary on days that you are doing just cardio fasted (like your running). Some people choose to still the BCAA around their fasted cardio, and that is fine if that is what you want to do. Just know that it is not "required".


Your caloric split looks pretty good on your calories, so you have the right idea there. :)
 
Pitbull84 said:
IF is the best thing that has ever happened to me!!! : ) I have never been in such good shape even back when I discovered Gear! I mean I would get great results but never like this! IF & gear = AMAZING RESULTS! Plus you feel so much healthier! If it wasn't for this thread I would of never have it a try. And oh MAN AM I HAPPY I DID! I help manage a gym and its funny how I once said talked about IF and all the staff and especially Trainers thought I was crazy & that I was starving my self and ect.. But the other day after being on IF for a Lil over a month try saw me working out with only a tank top and they couldn't stop looking at all the gains I've made and how much leaner and bigger and better I GOT! And all I said to them was "Man this IF, you know starving myself?" Is no Bueno! (In a sarcastic voice) LOL
Man thanks again Rick for starting this Thread! You helped change my life!
Click to expand...


That is awesome to hear my man! IF has been a life changer for many people, and the results speak for themselves. It's pretty amazing how lean you can stay on IF while trying to add in muscle. I've been in an overall caloric surplus for a good while now, but I'm maintaining my current low bodyfat level while adding a decent amount of strength and muscle in the process. I don't consider IF a diet since I never come off of it....it's become a lifestlyle!

I'm really glad you are enjoying IF, and I'm happy that I could help you out with my info, bud! Thanks for the feedback :)
 
RickRock13 said:
The only time BCAAs are recommended are before and after workouts when they are done in the fasted state and then every two hours before breaking fast. It is not absolutely necessary on days that you are doing just cardio fasted (like your running). Some people choose to still the BCAA around their fasted cardio, and that is fine if that is what you want to do. Just know that it is not "required".


Your caloric split looks pretty good on your calories, so you have the right idea there. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick. What about calories I am 5'9 208lb. What number should i limit myself to?

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
 
AliAli said:
Thanks Rick. What about calories I am 5'9 208lb. What number should i limit myself to?

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

It really depends on your current goal. If losing bodyfat is your main focus, doing 20-30% under maintenance on nonworkout (cardio or rest) days with 10%-15% over maintenance on workout days when you lift. A recomp would be more around 20%/20%

You can always adjust from there if need be
 
So its been a week of lean gains and surprisingly I gained 5 lbs. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and here's some things I noticed which could be the cause:

- while fasted I drink coffee 2 cups with cream and sugar daily. Today I cut out the sugar completely and used only a little bit of light cream. It's suppose to be a 16hr fast so i will do just that...no sugar.
- after eating a big meal I feel very bloated; I'm looking into sodium intake which could be the culprit. I started using fitday app to track calories.
- I have also been constipated; I usually go once a day so I started taking metamucil and its helped.
- I feel like I have put on water weight; trying to figure out what to do about it; more cardio to sweat it out? I run twice a week for 30 min fasted.

My body is definitely changing; posture is changing but I'm not losing the weight so hopefully these changes help. I'm not taking any supplements either just whey protein and casein for night.

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
 
AliAli said:
So its been a week of lean gains and surprisingly I gained 5 lbs. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and here's some things I noticed which could be the cause:

- while fasted I drink coffee 2 cups with cream and sugar daily. Today I cut out the sugar completely and used only a little bit of light cream. It's suppose to be a 16hr fast so i will do just that...no sugar.
- after eating a big meal I feel very bloated; I'm looking into sodium intake which could be the culprit. I started using fitday app to track calories.
- I have also been constipated; I usually go once a day so I started taking metamucil and its helped.
- I feel like I have put on water weight; trying to figure out what to do about it; more cardio to sweat it out? I run twice a week for 30 min fasted.

My body is definitely changing; posture is changing but I'm not losing the weight so hopefully these changes help. I'm not taking any supplements either just whey protein and casein for night.

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

With IF, its best to not look at the scale so much but judge by the mirror instead....especially when first starting it up.

Its actually pretty common to gain a little weight when starting depending on what you were doing with your diet before IF. Glycogen uptake usually increases and your body will store more since your body knows that a fast is coming. As a result, on days you eat enough carbs you will get fuller and hold more water. Sodium can also effect things as well.

Try going very low carb every other day (preferably on non workout days). This will effectively be like carb cycling on a smaller scale and should work well for controlling bloat and any water. That is pretty much what I do, and have for quite some time
 
Get guys just a quick question. If I workout at around 6.30am and my feeding window is from 12-8pm. Is the gap from workout to feeding time too long?

Thanks guys for all the help so far
 
yashdutt said:
Get guys just a quick question. If I workout at around 6.30am and my feeding window is from 12-8pm. Is the gap from workout to feeding time too long?

Thanks guys for all the help so far
Click to expand...

No that is fine. That is actually exactly what I do. Martin recommends breaking fast within 6-8 hours after workout I believe, but as long as you keep protein synthesis going by consuming BCAAs (8-10g) every two hours of the fast you are fine with breaking fast several hours after the workout
 
AliAli said:
So its been a week of lean gains and surprisingly I gained 5 lbs. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and here's some things I noticed which could be the cause:

- while fasted I drink coffee 2 cups with cream and sugar daily. Today I cut out the sugar completely and used only a little bit of light cream. It's suppose to be a 16hr fast so i will do just that...no sugar.
- after eating a big meal I feel very bloated; I'm looking into sodium intake which could be the culprit. I started using fitday app to track calories.
- I have also been constipated; I usually go once a day so I started taking metamucil and its helped.
- I feel like I have put on water weight; trying to figure out what to do about it; more cardio to sweat it out? I run twice a week for 30 min fasted.

My body is definitely changing; posture is changing but I'm not losing the weight so hopefully these changes help. I'm not taking any supplements either just whey protein and casein for night.

Sent from my PG86100 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that u are my coworker
 
RickRock13 said:
No that is fine. That is actually exactly what I do. Martin recommends breaking fast within 6-8 hours after workout I believe, but as long as you keep protein synthesis going by consuming BCAAs (8-10g) every two hours of the fast you are fine with breaking fast several hours after the workout
Click to expand...

Oh ok, well least I'm on the right track. The thing that I don't get is, won't consuming BCAAs break your fast?

Thanks rick
 
Lol... Aw wish you'd done some research before asking about BCAA's breaking your fast :) seems no one has the heart to answer that question for the hundredth time :) pity, great thread :)
 
yashdutt said:
Oh ok, well least I'm on the right track. The thing that I don't get is, won't consuming BCAAs break your fast?

Thanks rick
Click to expand...


BCAAs do not break the fast "technically". They do cause a very small insulin release, but it is short lived and you return to the true fasted state very quickly. In a nutshell, BCAAs will have no direct negative impact on the benefits of fasting, though I would reserve them for around training workouts only. There is no need to take them on rest days or cardio only days.
 
Rick, I've been looking into IF the past while and it seems to be such a refreshing take on diet, with science to back it up..
Really want to try it, however I'm training for athletics at the moment, 100m sprint (60m in February being the start of the season) and I'm wondering how I can apply it?
I'm 22, 198 pounds, bf is roughly the same as my avatar pic, although I'd say leaner now. Following a 5 day split, with two upper body sessions, two lower body sessions and a track day consisting of plyometrics and 30, 50 and 80m sprints. Focussing on power and strength for the next 3 months for the 60m event.
From what I've seen most Leangains followers train 3 times a week, with no cardio, so I'm wondering would my training frequency be too high for such an approach? Performance and recovery is obviously crucial for the coming months.
I know you favour carb cycling from workout days to rest days, but with only two rest days a week, one after a heavy leg workout and the other after a track day, two taxing sessions which leave me drained and starving the following day, would you recommend this for me?
 
Prawn Dan said:
Rick, I've been looking into IF the past while and it seems to be such a refreshing take on diet, with science to back it up..
Really want to try it, however I'm training for athletics at the moment, 100m sprint (60m in February being the start of the season) and I'm wondering how I can apply it?
I'm 22, 198 pounds, bf is roughly the same as my avatar pic, although I'd say leaner now. Following a 5 day split, with two upper body sessions, two lower body sessions and a track day consisting of plyometrics and 30, 50 and 80m sprints. Focussing on power and strength for the next 3 months for the 60m event.
From what I've seen most Leangains followers train 3 times a week, with no cardio, so I'm wondering would my training frequency be too high for such an approach? Performance and recovery is obviously crucial for the coming months.
I know you favour carb cycling from workout days to rest days, but with only two rest days a week, one after a heavy leg workout and the other after a track day, two taxing sessions which leave me drained and starving the following day, would you recommend this for me?
Click to expand...

You can still implement intermittent fasting into your current training schedule if you are wanting to try it out. This diet can be tailored and adapted to meet your specific situation. As long as your macros are adjusted to meet your goals and demands, it will work just fine. Instead of carb cycling from day to day, you can keep the carbs a little higher on rest days, and make the carbs a little lower on workout days. This will ensure that your performance is not affected from running a lower carb amount on no workout days. I've actually started implementing this myself as I've been trying to concentrate more on mass and strength gains. The amount of activity you do, shouldn't be a factor either, as long as you are supplying the calories to your body to make up for it.
 
I've been struggling with diet management for a while. Although my macros aren't spot on all the time this method of eating has really helped. I use the MyFitnessPal app to track calorie intake and expenditure and I have to say IF has made watching cals a lot easier. I'm 36, 228, 6'2" and I'm guessing 18% bf and clean for almost 20 yrs lol. Looking forward to single digit bf #'s and I'm confident I'll get there with these methods.

...Hardest part now is staying clean when i know how ready my receptors are for another run!
 
ToastEater said:
Forgot to mention I'm about 1 week in and down 5 lbs already. 226 today.
Click to expand...

Just stay the course you are on, as it looks like things may be dialed in right for now. As you drop more weight you may have to make some more calorie adjustments. Obviously as you get lighter, your maintenance becomes less so you have to reduce cals to lose weight at the same rate
 
So I tried setting up my IF diet and here is what I am able to do.

Meal 1 830am
12 eggs
2 whole eggs
1.5 cup oats
.5 cup pineapple

Train

Post workout meal
60 g whey
2 baked potatoes
1 apple
2 cup greek yogurt

Meal 3
2 chicken breasts
3 cups vegetables
1 tbsp olive oil

Meal 4 Last meal around 4-4:30 om
2 chicken breasts
1 sweet potatoe
2 cups vegetables
1/4 cup almonds


Or am I supposed to train in the fasting state? When I train in the fasted state It feels like I can not push as hard as I can after eating something.
 
Texas Monster said:
So I tried setting up my IF diet and here is what I am able to do.

Meal 1 830am
12 eggs
2 whole eggs
1.5 cup oats
.5 cup pineapple

Train

Post workout meal
60 g whey
2 baked potatoes
1 apple
2 cup greek yogurt

Meal 3
2 chicken breasts
3 cups vegetables
1 tbsp olive oil

Meal 4 Last meal around 4-4:30 om
2 chicken breasts
1 sweet potatoe
2 cups vegetables
1/4 cup almonds


Or am I supposed to train in the fasting state? When I train in the fasted state It feels like I can not push as hard as I can after eating something.
Click to expand...

You do not have to train in the fasted state at all. As long as you are maintaining that 16 hr fast each day you are good.

As for your meal plan, there are some changes I would make. Your post workout meal has just whey and greek yogurt in it for protein, when you really need more protein (preferably whole food sources mostly) in that meal and more carbs as well. Your post workout meal should be the biggest of the day, and if possible you should try to get 50-60% of total Cal's for the day in that meal. I try to get a minimum of 100-150g protein in that meal and half my carbs for the day.
 
RickRock13 said:
You do not have to train in the fasted state at all. As long as you are maintaining that 16 hr fast each day you are good.

As for your meal plan, there are some changes I would make. Your post workout meal has just whey and greek yogurt in it for protein, when you really need more protein (preferably whole food sources mostly) in that meal and more carbs as well. Your post workout meal should be the biggest of the day, and if possible you should try to get 50-60% of total Cal's for the day in that meal. I try to get a minimum of 100-150g protein in that meal and half my carbs for the day.
Click to expand...


So would this be a better set up.

Meal 1
12 eggs
2 whole eggs
1.5 cup oats
.5 cup pineapple

Train

Post workout
60 g whey
2 baked potatoes
1 apple
10 oz lean beef or 2 chicken breasts
2 cups greek yogurt
1 cup rice

Meal 3
2 chicken breasts
2 cups veggies
1 tbsp olive oil

Meal 4
2 chicken breasts
1 sweet potatoe
1 cup veggies
1/4 cup almonds
 
Texas Monster said:
So would this be a better set up.

Meal 1
12 eggs
2 whole eggs
1.5 cup oats
.5 cup pineapple

Train

Post workout
60 g whey
2 baked potatoes
1 apple
10 oz lean beef or 2 chicken breasts
2 cups greek yogurt
1 cup rice

Meal 3
2 chicken breasts
2 cups veggies
1 tbsp olive oil

Meal 4
2 chicken breasts
1 sweet potatoe
1 cup veggies
1/4 cup almonds
Click to expand...

Yep....perfect change! Let me know if you have any other questions bud ;)
 
Great thread here with great info!

I joined just to share my experience with IF. I was above 20% and within weeks I was down a pants size. Now I'm approaching my college size with no end in sight! I love how adaptable it is. I like to run so I've had no problems jogging 4+ miles in a fasted state. Anything more than an hour (especially toward the end of the fast) is pushing it though. The BCAAs do help me feel not so lightheaded. I eat two huge meals per day and I love it!

There is a reason this diet is the best kept health secret on the internet. I'm just waiting for the big cereal companies to fund studies that tell us how bad fasting is. Follow the money....
 
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