Insulin, WTF??

[PsychoSkitz]

I did as George's article did and I shot 3 IU's at 8pm.

2 IU's at 10pm.

2 IUs at 12pm.

It's almost 2am now and my reading on the glucometer is only 90mg/ml. It was 109 right after my final high carb meal at 7:30.

Why the hell arent my levels at 50-60 yet? I can't shoot up again because there's no way in hell I'm staying up till 4.

Should I be in ketogenesis when I wake up? Did I do something wrong?

Thanks.

 

[MR. BMJ]

What kind of Insulin are you using?

MR. BMJ

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Humulin R by Lilly.

 

[Mr.X]

Bro, you must have had a little TOO many carbs I assume. But, usually I would reccomend starting you Insulin no later then 3:00-4:00pm. Also, you can use up to 3 IU's if 2IU's don't do the job; as long as you can feel an onset of Hypo. comma (if you feel shakes, or sweating --more than usual-->have carbs).

You also have to remember that Humulin R peaks in about 2 1/2 hours. So, that might be a problem too.

 

[east coast muscle]

My problem was just the opposite of Psycho skitz, my reading was 55 at 10:00pm last night so i stopped using the insulin, I woke up at 9:00 am this morning did 40 minutes of cardio & when I went to take a leak I used the strip & nothing not even a trace of ketones, wtf happened?

 

[Mr.X]

You can be in Ketosis without a reading on the Ketosix strip. Remember, your blood can contain the Ketones while your urine will not show a reading. Also, some people can be in Ketosis a whole 5 days without showing a reading on the Ketosix strip. Why? well, because some people use up their ketones very efficiently and, as a result, do not show readings on the strip. Plus, some people do not enter Ketosis until 12 hours after last shot, in turn, if your last shot was at 9 pm then you might not enter Ketosis until 9-11am next morning.

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Un-fucking-believable!!

I must have very high natural blood glucose levels.

3 IUs at 8pm.

2 IUs at 10pm.

2 IUs at 12pm.

Woke and still had a high level, so....

3 IUs at 730am.

3 IUs at 10am.

I did another reading at 12 noon..87 mg/dl !!! I used ketostix too to make sure the meter isnt broke and nothing.

I just shot another 3 IUs.

Is this possible? Can my body be immune to insulin?

 

[Mr.X]

Bro, you cannot be immune to insulin. Just relax, you'll get it down. A problem might be that your insulin is bad...when did you buy the bottle? are you keeping it cool? and in the dark?

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Picked it up on Saturday from CVS and it's been in the fridge ever since. Expiration of 2003.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks.

 

[sankofa]

it takes me about 24h to get a positive reading on the ketostix. i would start out at 4iu humulin r, 2h later 3, another 2h later 2. last shot would be at 9 pm. at 11 pm right before going to bed i would take 850mg metformin. upon waking up another metformin. early afternoon i would do 1h of intensive aerobics which will put me right into ketosis.

 

[Mr.X]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY-> MORONS AND IDIOTS SHOULD NOT USE INSULIN, BECAUSE IT CAN BE DEADLY!!!!
(your insulin should be fine)
Here is a sample use of insulin:

Sun:
3pm..have carbo powder + whey protein(considering this is day 2 of your carb-up)..."take" 3 IU's insulin, 1 hour later, take reading on meter, and have 1/2 of the carbo powder + whey protein you had last time and "take" 3 IU's. 2 hours later take reading-> you should be about 100...take 2 1/2- 3 IU's...2 hours later take reading....
if about 80-90 then take 3IU's
if about 70-80 take 2IU's
2 hours later take reading...and go from there
2 IU's, every 2- 2 1/2 hours until you hit 50-65 on the glucometer

 

[east coast muscle]

psycho skitz, make sure to take in fats while you're trying to get in ketosis, just be patient I'm sure you'll get in eventually

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Thanks guys.

I knew a "Hey idiot, Insulin is lethal" post was coming

Is it possible that I can still be at 88mg/dl after all this insulin?

 

[MS]

It is possible that your body is partly 'immune' to insulin. It's a very common western condition called insulin insensitivity. High fat actually worstens this condition in the short term, though in the long term it will improve your sensitivity. Have you ever tried a fasting glucose challenge? Might be a good idea because if you're insensitive to insulin you may not get great results with a CKD (with or without insulin). Metformin or ALA may help, as will exercise.

 

[Mr.X]

Yes, that is a possibility, but a VERY small one. Just go with the flow (you will get into ketosis, no matter what the Ketosix reads), and I personally recommend no more than 15 IU's total in order to achieve ketosis.
Mr.X

 

[MR. BMJ]

Here are some things that come to mind:

1.) What were your last couple of meals yesterday before you started your insulin?

Hopefully they were liquid/high GI meals. Kind of low-moderate calorieated. The reason being that your body will use up these quick GI carbs faster than whole protein and fats. You should not have eaten any solid proteins, carbs, or fats because this will slow down gastric emptying. Thus, it will take longer for your body to digest the foods, and it will take longer to get into ketosis. This is a VERY mislooked mistake that MOST people make when stopping their carb-up before trying to deplete blood glucose/glycogen levels. I can't stress this enough. I am not saying you did, but I would like to make a point to all those reading this, DO NOT EAT ANY FATS, WHOLE PROTEIN (or casein), OR LOW GI CARBS FOR YOUR LAST COUPLE OF MEALS OF THE CARB_UP!!! NO CHICKEN, BEEF, PEANUT BUTTER, FATS/OILS, MEATS, OR LOW GI CARBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. After your last Carb meal, did you have any "keto" meals? In other words, did you have a fat/protein meals after your last carb meal yesterday?

I highly recommend that when you have your last high GI carb/protein meal (glucose/whey), that this be your last meal of the night. I do not eat another meal until after I do my morning cardio on Monday (the next day). The reason being is the same as in #1 above.

3. The same as what MS said. But, it IS strange that after taking all the insulin you used, with no carbs eaten, that it would not be a little lower. I don't know.

MR. BMJ

 

[PsychoSkitz]

At around 2:30-3:00 I had ribs, french fries and 2 slices of pizza (mmm, carb up

Then at 7:30 I had a big bowl of frosted flakes with milk, leading up to the first injection at 8pm.

Was the 2:30-3:00 meal the reason?

 

[MR. BMJ]

The 2:30 meal was definately a big mistake. Whether or not it is the problem directly, I don't know. BUT, it definately didn't help. All the foods in this meal take a long time to digest. Your body could have still been trying to digest all the carbs from this meal for many of hours.

The 7:30pm meal didn't help either. You should have stopped your carb meals by 6:00 if your first injection was at 8pm. You should have had a high GI carb source with whey (mixed in water). You could have even went with no protein and a small high GI carb meal. The GI of milk is very low, and the casein stays in the gut for long periods of time. If you had any undigested carbs from your 2:30 meal along with the slow GI carbs from this meal, then there is no telling how long it would have been until you would have started to drop blood glucose levels.

MR. BMJ

The last 3 meals of my carb-up/day before I get into ketosis looks like this:

2:00pm
8oz Ultra Fuel and 10-20 grams of whey protein in water.

4:00pm
Same as 2:00 meal

6:00pm
Same as 2:00 meal.

Any meals before these 3 meals are easy digesting meals too, but they are usually not liquids, and are a little lower GI.

MR. BMJ

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Okay, thanks.

Next week I'll change up my meal planning and hopefully everything will work out.

Thanks for all the help in this thread guys!

 

[Texas Guy]

I was just at Walgreen's and there was a glucometer that also would read ketone in the whole blood. It would seem that even if no ketones are in the urine, there should be ketones in the blood if you are in ketosis. Has anyone tried that brand of glucometer and ran the ketone blood test?

 

[MS]

Hmmmm interesting Texas Guy. That would be a neat thing to measure as you are correct that high blood ketones plus low blood glucose=ketosis unquestionably (Unless you're diabetic in which case the blood glucose may also be high). How much did this gizmo cost?

 

[KillerLoop]

Great thread!!! I am thinking of using slin for ketosis too. Could anyone explain exactly how to inject insulin. I know it is supposed to be injected into the stomach but should it be injected into fat or muscle???

 

[Texas Guy]

Hey MS, Apparently, this meter just came out earlier this year. It is the MediSense Precision Xtra, made by Abbott Labs. It sells for $73. However, the ketone test strips are $32 for 8. Really expensive, but accurate and definitive.

Right now I'm in the midst of a TKD experiment. I'm taking blood glucose and urine ketone levels every 30 minutes to see how ketosis is affected by 50 grams of maltodextrin 60 min. before a workout.

 

[PsychoSkitz]

Okay..I laid off the Insulin this week and will hit it up next week.

Yesterday my meals were as follows:

Breakfast- 5 strips of bacon.
Lunch- 3 slices of bologna.
Snack- 5 slices of bologna.
Dinner- a nice piece of baked salmon.
Post Workout- Carb Solutions bar.

I also had 4 tbsps of Flax and a tbsp of Canola Oil.

I hit the gym and started off with 15 minutes of cardio and then did chest and back. I usually do cardio on my off days but figured it could only HELP to bring me into ketogenesis faster. My thinking is that working out after cardio will exhaust me more and help deplete more glycogen.

Is this looking better or am I still eating incorrectly?