I need a plan

[Profile]

Okay, as you can see from the other thread I started, my cardio workouts have gotten off to a bad start by doing too much cardio at too high of an intensity. I want to nip this in the bud, right here right now before progressing too far in my routine. I am about two weeks in now.

Stats: 34 male, 5ft 10in, 192 lbs, and approximately 18% body fat. (I am getting an official body fat test tomorrow)

Goals: To lose weight while at the same time gaining muscle. I don't want to be bulky, but I would like to be "cut", I guess that is the term for not too much muscle, like this dude. I am not sure if I can achieve this at my age, but this gives you a general idea of what kind of routine would suit me good.

Image: http://a753.g.akamai.net/7/753/1125/7d20d69fc52252/www.menshealth.com/images2/fitness2/ironedout.jpg

I just need some basic pointers. Before you suggest, I have already searched these forums, but we are all different and have different stats and goals. So I didn't want to copy a wrong routine and six months later come in here crying the blues. But if you know of a link location that has a routine that is similar to what I am seeking, feel free to link it. ANY help at all is appreciated.

My main questions.

1. How much and how frequent should I do my cardio? Right now, I am at 5 days a week (thought more was better) and was shown I was wrong by the more experienced in the other thread. I am thinking of cutting it back to 20-30 minute moderate sessions 3 times per week first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?

2. I work out my upper and lower body twice a week. Is this sufficient? I go hard, and intense, with about 3 sets and 6 reps. To get the "cut" look, should I go lighter and more reps?

3. Post workout meal. What would you suggest? I have been eating about a 8 oz chicken breast and a 6oz potato within 30 minutes after my workouts. Trying to stay away from MRP's, but I may have no choice?

4. Supplements. Currently taking 3 flaxseed oil capsules before each meal, twice daily multi-vitamin (could use a suggestion on best kind), 1 gram of vitamin C before three meals, 200mcg of chromium Picolinate along with one heaping teaspoon of creatine after my workout, and I also have NYC on order should be here tomorrow. I am sure I am missing something important here, or maybe I need to remove some supps, or maybe both.

I am sure there are some things I am missing here, (if you any tips off hand, please share them) and I will most likely think of more questions later. But these questions are most definitely the ones at the top of my mind.

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance. I sure could use some as you can see!!

 

[skaman607]

3. Post workout meal. What would you suggest? I have been eating about a 8 oz chicken breast and a 6oz potato within 30 minutes after my workouts. Trying to stay away from MRP's, but I may have no choice?

Try making a protein shake

 

[supersizeme]

1. start off with 30 minutes 3 times a week. If you are at 18% bf right now, you should be able to steadily drop off fat with this amount in conjunction with a diet designed for cutting. if it gets to a point where you seem to have plateaued as far as weight loss, you can try either adjusting your diet some more, or adding a fourth or possibly 5th day of cardio. but starting out, you should be good with 3 30 minute sessions per week, assuming you had little to no physical activity prior to start all of this.

2. Don't look at a weight lifting split as something that's going to cut you or bulk you. The point of lifting weights is to build muscle. Stick with your reps in between 6-10 reps, or basically like you are doing right now(as long as you are going at it intensely like you have said). Also, do not worry about getting "too bulky." This is something that women say all the time when giving reasons why they don't want to weight train. Guess what...it ain't that easy to get "too bulky." As long as you're not using steroids, you're going to have to put in a considerable amount of time and effort to get bulky. Also, if you are training your legs properly, you should only be able to hit them once a week. Are you squatting? Post up your leg routine so we can explain why you are able to get two leg workouts in per week.

3. Post workout - I usally come home from the gym, put down a small protein shake mixed with milk, and then about an hour to an hour and a half aftewards, I have a meal with protein and complex carbs in it. Your meal looks fine.

4. You mentioned that you are taking a flax seed oil capsule before each meal. While you are on the right track in trying to get the healthy fats in, I believe there is a general rule about getting your protein, carbs, and fat in, which basically amounts to either eating protein and carbs in the meal, or protein and fat. But not too much fat and carbs at the same meal. I'd take the flax by itself with a chicken breast or a protein shake. Maybe ask that one on the diet board.

Anyways...you're not too old to do this. Plenty of people on this board in their 30s who gotten good results. You just have to stick with it. Good luck.

 

[vinylgroover]

I concur with what SSME advised.

Remember, you can't look cut without building muscle. I don't care how much fat you lose, if you have little or no muscle underneath, you'll just look skinny at a low bodyfat, so hit your training hard. RemeMber, once you have muscle, it is easy to control the size of it.

Depending on how long you have been training, it may be time to split your bodyparts over a 3 or 4 day split depending on your time constraints so that each bodypart gets worked once each week ie

Monday: Chest, biceps

Wednesday: Shoulders, triceps

Thursday: Back

Saturday: Legs

or whatever split you wish to try.

Can i suggest you back off on the supplements until you've had a a good chance to get your diet and training right. Give it 6 months of correct training and dieting, and then assess what, if any supplements your body needs. Unfortunately, supplements are treated as some sort of magic potion in this sport, but many times they are nothing short of a waste of money if you haven't got the key areas of dieting and training right.

Maybe you can post what sort of exercises you are currently doing in your routine and we can be more specific with regard your workout.

 

[Profile]

Thanks for the great suggestions supersize and vinyl. Excellent advice.

Sorry for a late response, had to spend a few days in the ER with a bad throat infection along with a 105 degree temp. Thank god for killer antibiotics, now I'm close to being 100% back already

Vinyl, I always heard (granted may have been wrong the whole time) that you should work out the muscles that work with eachother during certain exercises.

For instance. Chest workouts warm up and use the shoulders and triceps. So these three muscles should be worked together. Because they are already warm after doing chest, chances of injuries are decreased.

Doing back exercises warms up the biceps. So it is beneficial to do these two mucsle groups on the same day.

So I was thinking something along these lines. I may be way off base here, so anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Starting back up tomorrow with some routine.

Monday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Wednesday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Thursday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Friday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
and the following Monday start with: Back, Biceps, Legs

I see you suggest doing the opposite muscle groups on Monday with chest and biceps. Certainly you know more than me, and I am curious as to why that would be beneficial. The more I learn the better off I will be.

Also Vinyl, your suggestion on backing off on the supplements is a good idea, and something I already considered. I think I will do this, and see how my body does without them.

I will also do some archive searching on these forums and read through recommended workout routines.

Thanks again.

 

[Profile]

Also supersizeme, your post was excellent and very informative!!
I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your knowledge and experience. I understand, a good diet is the key.

To answer your question, I am not squatting now. I am doing leg presses. Worried and paranoid about hurting my back. Wanting to build up a little muscle mass before attempting squats again.

thanks.

 

[vinylgroover]

Vinyl, I always heard (granted may have been wrong the whole time) that you should work out the muscles that work with eachother during certain exercises.

For instance. Chest workouts warm up and use the shoulders and triceps. So these three muscles should be worked together. Because they are already warm after doing chest, chances of injuries are decreased.

Doing back exercises warms up the biceps. So it is beneficial to do these two mucsle groups on the same day.

So I was thinking something along these lines. I may be way off base here, so anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Starting back up tomorrow with some routine.

Monday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Wednesday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Thursday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Friday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
and the following Monday start with: Back, Biceps, Legs

I see you suggest doing the opposite muscle groups on Monday with chest and biceps. Certainly you know more than me, and I am curious as to why that would be beneficial. The more I learn the better off I will be.

Also Vinyl, your suggestion on backing off on the supplements is a good idea, and something I already considered. I think I will do this, and see how my body does without them.

I will also do some archive searching on these forums and read through recommended workout routines.

Thanks again.

Profile,

I've always used the opposite logic to what most people do regarding muscle groupings. I never like to work synergistic muscles in the same workout, because you can't give each muscle group 100% if you're pre-fatiguing a particular muscle by working it's synergistic muscle before-hand. The classic example is back and biceps. If i work my back before biceps, there is no way i can blast my biceps because they are already fatigued, and vice versa.

I prefer to keep each muscle group as fresh as possible in order to hit it as hard as i can. As far as the argument for injury prevention goes, you should always warm a muscle up before hitting it anyway, so i don't see that as a valid argument.

IMO each muscle group should be getting 100% effort and attention. If you feel you can do that on the split you outlined, then go for it. I tried the type of split you outlined, but it wasn't for me. Give your split a try and see how you go.

Secondly, why do you feel the need to work each muscle group twice in a week. On the split you outlined, you are working over 5 days with no rest days plus cardio. That is a helluva lot of training. Remeber, you grow when you are resting. You are doing way too much IMO.

 

[gettinlarger]

So I was thinking something along these lines. I may be way off base here, so anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Starting back up tomorrow with some routine.

Monday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Wednesday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Thursday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Friday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
and the following Monday start with: Back, Biceps, Legs

You're seriously overtraining man.

 

[teen1216]

Monday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Wednesday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
Thursday: Back, Biceps, Legs
Friday: Chest, triceps, and Shoulders (30 minute cardio)
and the following Monday start with: Back, Biceps, Legs

Too much volume. If you want to hit upper and lower body 2 days each, one needs to be a light, speed workout. Legs need their own day.

Something like this perhaps if you want to train muscle groups like you are now:

Mon - Back and Bis, Legs light
Tues - Chest and Tris heavy, abs
Wed - Off
Thurs - Legs heavy, Back and Bis light
Fri - Shoulders, Chest and Tris light

or you could:

Mon - Heavy legs
Tues - Speed Upper and abs
Wed -
Thurs - Speed Legs
Fri - Heavy Upper

or


Note: You can flip which muscle groups you want on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, just don't hit the same one twice with this routine.
Mon - Back and Bis
Tues- Off
Wed - Legs, abs
Thurs - Off
Fri - Chest and Tris
Sat - Off
Sun - Off

or

Mon - Back and Bis
Tues - Chest and Tris
Wed - Off
Thurs - Legs
Fri - Shoulders and abs
Sat & Sun - Off

 

[SeekerOfKnowledge]