HGH question....

[ironmaster]

I've got a script for Avandia ordered, and will play lab rat on the dosage question.

Either of you guy's have any idea if there is a way to "unbind" GHBP's so as to allow the GH to interact with the receptors more quickly?

 

[nandi12]

The abstract below shows that androgens administered to hypogonadal men lowered GHBP. This sounds good but the potential problem here that was not mentioned in the abstract is that GHBP is produced in humans from the proteolytic cleavage of the growth hormone receptor (GHR). It is essentially the extracellular domain of the GHR. This abstract, and a couple of others I looked at that also showed androgens lowers GHBP, did not address the question of whether the reduced GHBP is associated with a reduced GHR level, which would obviously be a bad thing.


J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1995 Apr;80(4):1278-82

Do androgens regulate growth hormone-binding protein in adult man?

Ip TP, Hoffman DM, O'Sullivan AJ, Leung KC, Ho KK.

Garvan Institute of Medical Research, St. Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

To determine whether adult serum GH-binding protein (GHBP) is regulated by androgen, serum GHBP concentrations were compared between 20 normal and 18 hypogonadal men matched for age and body mass index, and the effect of im testosterone treatment (250 mg testosterone enanthate) on GHBP levels in the 18 hypogonadal men was studied. Nine of the hypogonadal subjects had coexistent GH deficiency. Serum GHBP concentration was measured by a ligand immunofunctional assay. The mean serum GHBP level in untreated hypogonadal men was not significantly different from that of normal men (0.98 +/- 0.15 vs. 1.17 +/- 0.16 nmol/L). The mean serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) level was significantly lower in the hypogonadal men (132 +/- 22 vs. 206 +/- 17 ng/mL; P < 0.01). Basal testosterone (3.7 +/- 0.7 nmol/L) in hypogonadal men increased during treatment to a mean level of 29.1 +/- 2.8 nmol/L, which was not significantly higher than that in normal men (22.6 +/- 1.9 nmol/L). The mean serum GHBP level in hypogonadal men fell significantly during treatment to 0.60 +/- 0.11 nmol/L (P = 0.0003), whereas the serum IGF-I level rose significantly to 151 +/- 26 ng/mL (P < 0.04). The decrease in GHBP level was significant in both the GH-sufficient and GH-deficient subjects (P < 0.02 in both instances), whereas the increase in IGF-I level was significant in the GH-sufficient group (199 +/- 22 to 235 +/- 29 ng/mL; P < 0.04) but not in the GH-deficient group (53 +/- 7 to 55 +/- 5 ng/mL; P > 0.8). Thus, serum GHBP is normal in hypogonadal men but is reduced by testosterone treatment irrespective of endogenous GH-secretory status. It was concluded that the effect of testosterone on GHBP is pharmacological and occurs independent of GH mediation.

 

[Beezers]

Bravo for this post guys. Keep this one going and flood it with information. This is good reading. A refreshing break from the "when's it going to kick in", or the "i"m not eating anything and can't figure out why I'm not growing" questions.

 

[BigDog60]

ok so where to get avandia? I have a family history of diabetes do you think I could get a script that way? also what dosage would be effective? I'm very insulin resistant at 6'7" 310lbs 18%bf. Not to mention Ive been on GH and AAS for 5months(AAS 2 cycles off/on, gh 4.5iu throughout)

 

[ironmaster]

Thanks, Nandi. So if the administration of androgens lowers GHBP and does not result in a reduction of GHR's, and/or increases the amount of free GH.......this would explain the anecdotal evidence that a GH/insulin/steroid stack seems to defy our natural defenses.
What's your opinion of Robert's statement that 17aa's stimulate big releases of insulin growth factors on the first pass through the liver. I've always used dbol or the like in a GH cycle for this reason. Another synergy in the equation?

 

[SUST-MAN]

Now we just need a source for Avandia...

I love modern medicine...it just gets BETTER AND BETTER! hehe

Again....THANKS FOR THIS POST! Although at times, its difficult to understand what you guys are talking about....i still learned alot!

 

[BigDog60]

Yeah I'm getting lost in the studies myself. I'm only working on my masters not my doctorate yet. Thanks Iron for really pulling all the info together.

 

[nandi12]

What's your opinion of Robert's statement that 17aa's stimulate big releases of insulin growth factors on the first pass through the liver

I've never seen any evidence to support this; on the contrary the research supports a rise in IGF-1 secondary to GH increase due to a direct pituitary effect of 17aa steroids. For example, dianabol, when administered to children with short stature increases GH (1). Since IGF-1 inhibits GH via negative feedback, had IGF-1 increased directly via some sort of liver effect, one would see a decrease in GH.

This research is consistent with other studies showing dbol has no anabolic effect in animals whose pituitary glands have been removed (since they can't produce GH) (2)

It is also consistent with other studies showing an increase in GH after oxandrolone (3) and methyltestosterone (4) administration.

The oxandrolone research is telling because it showed an increase in total GH without any change in GH pulse frequency. Had the drug been acting on GHRH centers in the brain a pulse frequency change would have been seen. This shows the oxandrolone is acting directly on the pituitary to increase GH secretion.

(1) Horm Metab Res 1970 Sep;2(5):260-4
The effect of methandrostenolone on pituitary growth hormone secretion.
Hochman IH, Laron Z.

(2) Endocrinology 1972 May;90(5):1396-8
The role of growth hormone in the anabolic action of methandrostenolone.
Steinetz BG, Giannina T, Butler M, Popick F.

(3) : J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1990 Oct;71(4):846-54
Testosterone and oxandrolone, a nonaromatizable androgen, specifically amplify the mass and rate of growth hormone (GH) secreted per burst without altering GH secretory burst duration or frequency or the GH half-life.
Ulloa-Aguirre A, Blizzard RM, Garcia-Rubi E, Rogol AD, Link K, Christie CM, Johnson ML, Veldhuis JD.

(4) Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1979 Jun;91(2):201-
Effect of androgen on growth hormone secretion and growth in boys with short stature.
Martin LG, Grossman MS, Connor TB, Levitsky LL, Clark JW, Camitta FD.

 

[ironmaster]

This is starting to come together. So the anecdotal evidence is correct but the "guru" explanation is wrong. Damn, you are an asset to the board, nandi12.

 

[saint808]

This is starting to come together. So the anecdotal evidence is correct but the "guru" explanation is wrong. Damn, you are an asset to the board, nandi12.

you are correct on both counts... nandi was underappreciated at tri... also this is kind of sad because it just points out the things i have been doing wrong.