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Help with moon face please !!

M

Mushroomhead

New member
I came off of Deca Test cycle, 4 weeks off and my face is still kind of bloated....

what should I do ????

what's a good supp that gets rid off your extra water ?
 
Was it long ester test? I used to fight nasty bloat for a while after sust cycles.

I tried all types of methods, but what worked for me was always cutting my sodium back to almost nothing and doing some solid cardio.
 
the deca is still in your system so you are bloated. you should be already starting PCT.

and you should of ran an AI the whole way through. the problem with bloat is that it comes with a host of side effects, and also your high estrogen levels will make it hard to recover. either run the proper ancillaries during your cycle and don't juice at all. no excuse for you to not have ancillaries on hand.. also i hope you ran anti-prolactin as well or it will be a very hard landing
 
I did Aromasin 12mg ed, Caber .5 EOD

but didn't really combat the bloat

I drink a lot of milk maybe 10 glasses a day, whole milk
 
what's your diet like? im just curious...
 
Mushroomhead said:
I did Aromasin 12mg ed, Caber .5 EOD

but didn't really combat the bloat

I drink a lot of milk maybe 10 glasses a day, whole milk
Click to expand...

whats your PCT? if you have a SERM there then you should start getting that estrogen knocked down.

yes whole milk is bloaty.. you are drinking way too much anyway, not gonna get into a debate on milk as everyone knows how much I am anti-milk.. would much rather you drink almond milk or hemp milk.. much healthier. but even those will bloat you somewhat.
 
done with PCT, Nolva 40 40 20 20 Clomid 50 50 50 50 Aromasin 6 6 6 6

DAA 3g 30 days as well

I'm lean tho, I see my abz ! but just the face cheek area is weird looking, everytime I smile it gets even bigger
 
Mushroomhead said:
I came off of Deca Test cycle, 4 weeks off and my face is still kind of bloated....

what should I do ????

what's a good supp that gets rid off your extra water ?
Click to expand...

Drink alot of water,,watch sodium intake and keep your diet clean.
 
Forms helps with bloat no doubt. Was taking dbol with forma, decided to stop to see if anything would happen and a week later my face blew up, got right back on and a week and half later much much better. Shit works!


Sent from my iPhone punk!
Train like a freak
 
Never was a big fan of milk, from a nutritional stand point its nothing special...

A cup of skim milk contains 13g carbs (12g sugar) and 8g of protein, sugar to protein ratio is horrible.

I believe 600mg of b6 is used daily but that's to combat prolactin sides and it may or may not work for you.
 
surprised no one caught that his PCT had nolva which is a huge no no after deca.

i would definately re-consider that pct you are running.. you've been a member long enough to know there are much better PCT's than nolva

part of pct is feeling good and keeping your dick working, otherwise you will get down on yourself and won't want to workout. so flush the nolva away and improve that pct.

also why would you stack nolva/clomid/aromasin like that ? if you insist on running one of those then run ONE. don't run 3 together. its overkill. have you gotten bloods done yet? i bet once the test esters clear your system totally you will crash hard and it won't be fun.. your estrogen is low on that pct i will give you credit for that

but anyway your bloat is definately from the milk, no way after that pct your estrogen is still high .. why do you drink so much milk anyway? a baby cow doesn't even drink that much milk and baby cows look fat and bloated, so unless you want to look like a baby cow then rid the milk and drink water instead
 
Zinergy said:
Never was a big fan of milk, from a nutritional stand point its nothing special...

A cup of skim milk contains 13g carbs (12g sugar) and 8g of protein, sugar to protein ratio is horrible.

I believe 600mg of b6 is used daily but that's to combat prolactin sides and it may or may not work for you.
Click to expand...

milk was a big hit back in the day when the dairy industry was spending billions on propaganda commercials. but today we are smarter.. there is one thing you should drink and one thing only that cannot be debated.. and that is WATER.
 
im glad you caught it steve, cause i was just gooing to say that using Nolvadex for pct is not what its for.... There is no proof or study that will show Tamoxifen Citrate will restart your naty HPTA.... There are studies that show why nandrolone and Nolva should not be mixed.. They MAY cause you to have gyno or prolactin.... The chances are raised higher.... You should stop the nolva and get an OTC PCT, and why would u run two SERMS in PCT? Id say its the sodium and water intake....
 
I was off of deca for 3 weeks and continued my test for 3 more weeks, then jumped on Nolva... Deca left my body at that time.

As far as milk goes, whole milk is full of awesome nutritions guys, lots of vitamins and minerals, the sugar is lactose !! its not the bad sugar

a lot of protein as well....
 
^^^ so you asked why you were bloated, got the answer.. and now you refuse to do what was suggested. what was the point in asking?

and yes lactose is bad sugar.. its sugar. also the milk is pasteurized you are drinking and all the minerals and vitamins are zapped away to high heaven. just imagine putting a piece of lettuce in the microwave and running it 5 minutes. think the lettuce will still have minerals and vitamins? do some research on the matter and not rely on brainwashing as a kid
 
1 cup of 2% milk = 30% calcium, 25% Vitamin D, 5g fat, 8g protein, 12g sugars

I wouldn't necessarily say it's full of awesome nutrition. I'm totally with Steve on this. I feel that milk is for baby calves. Human milk would be for a baby human.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE milk. I try my best to eat no dairy, but occasionally I give and have a bowl of honey nut cheerios. But there are so many better things than milk out there for protein, vitamins, and minerals. Hell, the majority of the world is lactose intolerant. You may be lactose intolerant and not know. I don't get sick when I drink milk. I do get some bloat, and if I drink too much for a few days, my digestive system slows lol. I grew up drinking milk all the time. It took going WITHOUT milk to see what it was really doing to me. Now I have a love hate relationship with it. Like I said, I like the taste of milk or whatever, but it's not worth the sides. Try 2 weeks without it and up your water intake to a gallon or more a day.
 
steve since you avoid milk completely, does the slightest bit of dairy get you bloated? this happened to me when i stopped drinking a gallon of milk a day and cut dairy out of my diet. i also started getting a ton of acid in my stomach.. so now i drink a couple glasses a day and i feel much more balanced.

but i agree, when i drink that much milk, the bloat is just a given. milk + deca and youre deff gonna have moonface. milk + deca + nolva and yeah idk what you expect lol. like steve said that deca can linger for a while in your system, so i wouldnt be suprised if its still contributing to your water weight
 
^^^ depends on what i eat.. cheese seems to really mess me up. i do eat greek yogurt on occasion.. and of course whey protein but NTBM protein has a good chunk of it isolate which is very easy to digest. I wouldn't say i avoid dairy completely, its impossible cause if you go to a restaurant you are gonna get butter put on things or they will put ranch on salads etc. so you will still get SOME dairy but i get a very small amount.. i love my italian food on occasion and of course it has dairy so I don't avoid it 100%, but i avoid purposely drinking milk.. i think i would puke if i drank milk at this stage.

as a side note the calcium in milk is a myth.. milk actually ROBS the body of calcium...this is why the US has the highest osteoperosis figures in the world cause we drink so much of it (especially people in the south), the lowest are in southeast asia where a small % of the population consumes cow milk... look these figures up online i'm not making them up. not to mention 70% of the US population is lactose intolerant, meaning are not capable of digesting lactose, which means it will sit in the stomach and get eaten up by bacteria.. notice you will get stomach cramping after dairy, that is why. and bloating up like a pig there ya go.

so milk DOES NOT do a body good. but the dairy industry puts out billions in ads all over the place and supermarkets have an entire aisle of dairy and you will notice the fatties are the ones who are in those aisles buying their milk, butter, etc. its big business. i haven't touched milk in about 8 years and i'm healthier for it and my calcium is perfect. if you want calcium believe it or not the best place to get it is mineral water and dark leafy veggies. in fact veggies have all the minerals and vitamins you need and people don't get enough of them, this is why disease, obesity and sickness is so rampant across the country.
 
I'm sorry habibi but I go with real study researches...

Milk minerals
Minerals are stable under pasteurization conditions and there is minimal change in their concentrations after pasteurization (Rolls and Porter 1973). Both in vitro and in vivo studies demonstrate that there is no impact of pasteurization on milk mineral content and mineral bioavailability (Van Dael et al.,1993; Weeks and King, 1985; Zurera-Cosano et al., 1994).

As discussed in a previous section (claim 3), the concentration and bioavailability of calcium, the most nutritionally important mineral in milk, is the same in raw and pasteurized milk. In another study, Van Dael et al (1993) demonstrated using in vitro method that the bioavailability of zinc and selenium in milk was not affected by pasteurization (73°C/15s) or sterilization (110°C/10 min).

Milk vitamins
Milk contains both fat soluble and water soluble vitamins. Fat soluble vitamins include A, D, E, and K. Water soluble vitamins included B1 (thiamin), B2 (riboflavin), niacin, pantothenic acid, B6, biotin, folic acid, b12, and vitamin C (Renner et al., 1989). In general, pasteurization has a little effect on milk vitamin levels (Bendicho et al., 2002; Renner et al., 1989). Vitamins that are present at high levels in milk, such as riboflavin, B6 and b12, are relatively heat stable. Other factors, such as storage temperature, dissolved oxygen, light exposure, packaging, and length of storage can have a much greater impact on milk vitamin stability (Gaylord et al., 1986; Kon, 1972; Lavigne et al., 1989; Pizzoferrato, 1992; Renner et al., 1989; Scott et al., 1984a; Scott et al., 1984b).

The only vitamin that is significantly heat labile is vitamin C but milk is an insignificant source for vitamin C. A cup of milk (240 ml) only provides about 5 mg of vitamin C (Renner et al., 1989).

Vitamin C is very susceptible to oxidation. Sample to sample variation can be considerable (Scott et al., 1984a) and degradation can happen immediately after milking due to photo-oxidation (Kon, 1972; Renner et al., 1989; Scott et al., 1984a). Reported values of vitamin C vary depending on seasonality, storage temperature, and elapsed time before analysis.

Lavigne et al (1989) reported that HTST at 72°C/16s reduced vitamin C in goat milk by 5%. Haddad and Loewenstein (1983) observed vitamin C level of 23.3 mg/liter in raw milk. After pasteurization at 72°C/16s, vitamin C was reduced by 16.6%. Similarly, Head and Hansen (1979) reported that in whole milk, vitamin C was reduced about 15% (from 24.3 mg/liter to 20.7 mg/liter) after pasteurization.

The loss of vitamin C increases with heating temperature and time and fits the first order kinetic model (Bendocho et al., 2002; Haddad and Loewenstein, 1983). Substantial loss only occurred after very high temperature heating for long time. For example, heating at 90°C for 10 min can cause 70% reduction in vitamin C (Bendicho et al., 2002).

Interestingly, Pizzoferrato (1992) indicated that vitamin C retention during storage is better in heated milk (72°C/15s, 75°C/15s, 80°C/15s) than in raw milk. The better retention was due to the removal of oxygen and the inactivation of peroxidase and microorganisms during heat treatment (Pizzoferrato, 1992).
 
^^ you mean the studies funded by the billion dollar dairy industry right? saying pasteurized milk is as good as pure milk is like saying sunny Delight is as healthy as freshly squeezed oranges off a tree. makes zero sense.

and i'm sure gatorade and its high fructose corn syrup content actually is good for athletes too cause they did studies on it using Peyton Manning and other athletes, and mcdonalds is good too cause i see olympians eating it on commercials. funny how i don't see athletes carrying around jugs of milk with them everywhere. i see them carry WATER.

name me ONE other mammal that drinks milk past infancy. especially the milk from another animal. also if milk is so great then why did u ignore the stats that i brung up that the US consumes the most milk yet has the highest osteoperosis in the world and also is incredibly obese. would you drink human milk as an adult? so why then do you drink cow milk which makes baby cows fat? are you a baby cow or a human?

I didn't want this thread to turn into a milk debate but I will gladly have it cause the facts are on my side.

but keep on drinking milk and being bloated, if that is the look you are going for i won't fault you.. but i will pass on the moon face, sugar, and empty nutrition that is in milk. you should be drinking 10 glasses of water a day, not milk. the dairy industry did not even exist before the 1900's when farmers started up dairy farms, it was actually kind of a ponzi scheme and many farmers failed in the midwest due to disease and lost their life savings when their cows died. the ones that survived today are almost non existant, today that milk you drink isn't courtesy of a family farm.. its a corporate farm, and they inject that cow full of hormones to produce as much milk as possible.. maybe you should visit a farm sometime and see how it all works, you won't want to eat milk anymore after seeing it.. or even eat an egg that isn't cage free when you see chickens in cages walking around on their own shit

again i'm not saying I avoid dairy 100%, but i consume is sparingly. just like i don't realistically avoid all sugars, salts, bad fats, etc. but purposely taking a bag of sugar or salt into my mouth makes as much sense as drinking gallons of milk a day. at your age you can get away with being lazy with your diet, but wait till you get a little older. all that milk you are drinking is gonna go straight to your love handles and gut and if you think you are bloated now just wait till your metabolism slows down into your late 20's.. you are only 22 so you can eat hot dogs and mcdonalds and get away with it, we all for the most part ate trash when we were young.
 
Last edited:
They also had studies to show tabacoo wasn't harmful to us, whoops :/ lol

As for mill, Cow milk at that, oh yummo :D I used to swim in it as it went through the big bladey thing to keep it mixxing until truck came, oh good days lol
But faults in both cases here,
Milk is known to have needed and good rates for things, as mentioned above just has a high fats so makes it not so good, it's alright to drink, but that much isn't very good :/

And as for do you see other animals drink another animals milk, it's like saying so you see animals other then people, chop up other animals, farm and build skyscrapers lol or synthesie hormones to inject into your butt cheeks...answer is no you don't lol so I'm agreeing with you :/ umm I was going somewhere oh yes, sure companies like tabacoo did, but milk companies still don't make half what tabacoo companies do, to pay off everyone eg. World health organization to vouch on something like that? Lol little supersitious if you don't mind me saying, a conpiracy like that wouldn't be worth it lol

As for places like US and Australia being some the most obese countries, it could just be a general laziness of us, diets as a whole, and keeping fit as a whole... Not because they drink milk... We have a lower HALE and L.E then Japan, and a higher ones then America, yet Japans smoking population is increasing well over america and Australia, though it doesn't cover the actual calcium defficentcy you brought up, but HALE still covers it a bit, so really it just happens that way man.


So end of debate ;p
Milk = a okay but not best source of macro/micro nutrients for you :)

Or

Milk = a world domination conpriacy by baby cows in human forms to take over the world ;p

Sorry Steve for sarcasm I little sleepy and just having alittle fun at end of it ;p
Just take out my intellectual part of disscussion/f.debate and rebut on that and other guy can argue the tabacoo did the same thing lol

(notice I'm Arguing for and against here) :)
 
stevesmi said:
^^^ so you asked why you were bloated, got the answer.. and now you refuse to do what was suggested. what was the point in asking?

and yes lactose is bad sugar.. its sugar. also the milk is pasteurized you are drinking and all the minerals and vitamins are zapped away to high heaven. just imagine putting a piece of lettuce in the microwave and running it 5 minutes. think the lettuce will still have minerals and vitamins? do some research on the matter and not rely on brainwashing as a kid
Click to expand...

Steve is right, lactose is bad sugar. Anything that spikes your glucose high, is bad.
Milk is for babies, not for humans. Sure, have a glass, eat some cheese or yogurt, but don't go into thinking it's healthy, because there is nothing healthy about dairy.
It's mucus causing and the calcium and vit's and minerals (that are left after pasteurizing) in milk can be found in many other food sources.

My opinion about the bloating would be more likely caused from either lactose intolerance, food intolerance, or yeast (system candida)issues.
Does your bloating come with gas?
 
stevesmi said:
^^^ depends on what i eat.. cheese seems to really mess me up. i do eat greek yogurt on occasion.. and of course whey protein but NTBM protein has a good chunk of it isolate which is very easy to digest. I wouldn't say i avoid dairy completely, its impossible cause if you go to a restaurant you are gonna get butter put on things or they will put ranch on salads etc. so you will still get SOME dairy but i get a very small amount.. i love my italian food on occasion and of course it has dairy so I don't avoid it 100%, but i avoid purposely drinking milk.. i think i would puke if i drank milk at this stage.

as a side note the calcium in milk is a myth.. milk actually ROBS the body of calcium...this is why the US has the highest osteoperosis figures in the world cause we drink so much of it (especially people in the south), the lowest are in southeast asia where a small % of the population consumes cow milk... look these figures up online i'm not making them up. not to mention 70% of the US population is lactose intolerant, meaning are not capable of digesting lactose, which means it will sit in the stomach and get eaten up by bacteria.. notice you will get stomach cramping after dairy, that is why. and bloating up like a pig there ya go.

so milk DOES NOT do a body good. but the dairy industry puts out billions in ads all over the place and supermarkets have an entire aisle of dairy and you will notice the fatties are the ones who are in those aisles buying their milk, butter, etc. its big business. i haven't touched milk in about 8 years and i'm healthier for it and my calcium is perfect. if you want calcium believe it or not the best place to get it is mineral water and dark leafy veggies. in fact veggies have all the minerals and vitamins you need and people don't get enough of them, this is why disease, obesity and sickness is so rampant across the country.
Click to expand...

Wait, and you thought I knew more than you on this?
Steve, you're bang on with this.
Milk is acid forming and once the body goes into acidosis, the body leeches calcium from the bones to get back into a balance PH (Acid vs alkaline).
It's a catch 22 in this case.
Any foods which are acid causing (Dairy, sugar, soda, caffeine, ALL citrus fruits (but lemons) etc) will cause the body to take calcium out of the bones.

If you have acid reflux, GERD or any other stomach issues, the cause is not too much acid, but you're actually not producing enough.

Keep your diet high in alkalized foods and lower in the acid foods.
 
stevesmi said:
^^ you mean the studies funded by the billion dollar dairy industry right? saying pasteurized milk is as good as pure milk is like saying sunny Delight is as healthy as freshly squeezed oranges off a tree. makes zero sense.

and i'm sure gatorade and its high fructose corn syrup content actually is good for athletes too cause they did studies on it using Peyton Manning and other athletes, and mcdonalds is good too cause i see olympians eating it on commercials. funny how i don't see athletes carrying around jugs of milk with them everywhere. i see them carry WATER.

name me ONE other mammal that drinks milk past infancy. especially the milk from another animal. also if milk is so great then why did u ignore the stats that i brung up that the US consumes the most milk yet has the highest osteoperosis in the world and also is incredibly obese. would you drink human milk as an adult? so why then do you drink cow milk which makes baby cows fat? are you a baby cow or a human?

I didn't want this thread to turn into a milk debate but I will gladly have it cause the facts are on my side.

but keep on drinking milk and being bloated, if that is the look you are going for i won't fault you.. but i will pass on the moon face, sugar, and empty nutrition that is in milk. you should be drinking 10 glasses of water a day, not milk. the dairy industry did not even exist before the 1900's when farmers started up dairy farms, it was actually kind of a ponzi scheme and many farmers failed in the midwest due to disease and lost their life savings when their cows died. the ones that survived today are almost non existant, today that milk you drink isn't courtesy of a family farm.. its a corporate farm, and they inject that cow full of hormones to produce as much milk as possible.. maybe you should visit a farm sometime and see how it all works, you won't want to eat milk anymore after seeing it.. or even eat an egg that isn't cage free when you see chickens in cages walking around on their own shit

again i'm not saying I avoid dairy 100%, but i consume is sparingly. just like i don't realistically avoid all sugars, salts, bad fats, etc. but purposely taking a bag of sugar or salt into my mouth makes as much sense as drinking gallons of milk a day. at your age you can get away with being lazy with your diet, but wait till you get a little older. all that milk you are drinking is gonna go straight to your love handles and gut and if you think you are bloated now just wait till your metabolism slows down into your late 20's.. you are only 22 so you can eat hot dogs and mcdonalds and get away with it, we all for the most part ate trash when we were young.
Click to expand...

^^^^

This x 10
 
blueta2 said:
Wait, and you thought I knew more than you on this?
Steve, you're bang on with this.
.
Click to expand...

in my early 20's i become a milk alcoholic. ice cream, cereal, chocolate milk, blah. typical dinner for me was a steak smothered in A1 sauce with oreo cookies, kit kats and milk for dessert. and i would drink a glass of chocolate milk before bed. i was on the phlegm and bloat diet. it took me looking like shit and ending up in the hospital with stomach problems for me to do research. a waste considering i was a good athlete in my teens up until i hit college and got lazy.

ran into a guy who was built like a freight train who started teaching me about good foods and bad foods, after more research i decided to quit dairy and sugars/breads, alcohol.. and found out about these weird things called vegetables.. my health took a total U turn. i literally would run down the street before and get home and throw up, after i changed my diet i became a horse overnight.
 
die faster said:
steve how do you feel about v8 vegetable juice as a vegetable source
Click to expand...

would much rather you juice your own veggies

you can get a juicer and use carrots as a base, and mix in all kinds of greens. much healthier alternative to V8 juice which has salt and other things added that you don't want

in fact this would be the perfect breakfast for someone trying to speed up their metabolism upon waking and get tons of vitamins and minerals in their body
 
stevesmi said:
would much rather you juice your own veggies

you can get a juicer and use carrots as a base, and mix in all kinds of greens. much healthier alternative to V8 juice which has salt and other things added that you don't want

in fact this would be the perfect breakfast for someone trying to speed up their metabolism upon waking and get tons of vitamins and minerals in their body
Click to expand...

I barely touch milk, once a day usually, and as for vegies
Hell yeah juice your own,
Salts, flavouring, presevatives, if it's commercial brand like that, I bet it has a "best before" not a "use by" and there is a difference lol

I have a huge bowl of vegies a day (mostly) carrots, peas, corn, brocolli, sprouts, tomato, asprogse(can't spell) steamed and served hot, oh so many and they so nice :D if running low I add some brown rice :) makes a lovely meal, with some lean meats, cow or roo and chicken oh so good :D
 
stevesmi said:
^^^ so you asked why you were bloated, got the answer.. and now you refuse to do what was suggested. what was the point in asking?

and yes lactose is bad sugar.. its sugar. also the milk is pasteurized you are drinking and all the minerals and vitamins are zapped away to high heaven. just imagine putting a piece of lettuce in the microwave and running it 5 minutes. think the lettuce will still have minerals and vitamins? do some research on the matter and not rely on brainwashing as a kid
Click to expand...

^^^^This
Milk loses all its vitamins and minerals when pasteurized. So does your food when you microwave. My mom would never let us have a microwave growing up, just a toaster oven, and oven. If you want the benefits of milk go to a dairy farm and get it fresh. Actually human stomachs weren't made to handle dairy.
And Nolva stays with you alot longer than you think. It can be detected in urine at almost 18 months. Nolva after Deca is a major no no.
Cut the milk down to a glass a day and drink water, water, and more water.

Sent from my EVO4G.
 
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