Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Help with Lifting Schedule
- Thread starter Elementality
- Start date
Elementality
New member
quick question. This linear progression only suggests doing bench/squats/powercleans/deadlifts/presses... no where in the reading does it talk about isolation exercises. No tricep pulldowns, no skullcrushers, bar dips, lat pull downs, rows etc. It also never talks about working the biceps at all. Also, it reccomends on a M W F schedule to do squats everytime. isn't that kind of overkill with the squats or can they be worked out that much without injury or excessive fatigue? i know if i did squats on monday with heavy weight i'd still be soar on wednesday, and if i did it on wednesday AND monday i definitley would be soar on friday.
overall, seems like these exercises totally ignore isolation exercises. So for example, if you're trying to increase bench press are you better off doing ONLY squats/dead lifts/powercleans/flat/incline bench? or are you better off doing a variation of cycling of things like flat bench, dumbell benching/pressing, cable crosses for chest, tricep pulldowns, skullcrushers etc. on addition to squats/deads/powercleans
overall, seems like these exercises totally ignore isolation exercises. So for example, if you're trying to increase bench press are you better off doing ONLY squats/dead lifts/powercleans/flat/incline bench? or are you better off doing a variation of cycling of things like flat bench, dumbell benching/pressing, cable crosses for chest, tricep pulldowns, skullcrushers etc. on addition to squats/deads/powercleans
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
Elementality said:
You don't need isolation exercise to begin with if you are building mass.
I rarely train my arms and they are really BIG for a nattie girl (actually bigger than some of the girlies on gear).
Triceps get worked during chest
Biceps get worked during back
Shoulders will work both.
So for example in a back to basics training
Dips - chest and biceps mostly worked
Pull ups - back lats and biceps
Sometimes I see guys in the gym and think, he looks good, big arms.
At closer inspection, that is ALL they have, big arms.
Your arms will grow as they are being used to push and pull all that weight with high intensity training.
I think that the only really essential isolation exercise is leg extensions, as this is the only exercise that ONLY hits the quads. This is also only necessary if your quads are lagging, and in most people's case, it is the hamstrings that are the weaker of the leg muscles.
I agree. the reason it doesn't mention any isolations is because they will be worked with all the heavy pulling, pushing, etc. They will grow along with the rest of your body. But if you want to, you can add on pullups and dips if you want to work your arms more. Do these after your main lifts so there's no interference. I do pullups after one workout session and dips on a different day, rotating every session.
if you're new to squats, since I assume you are when you stated you just started working out, it's perfectly fine to do them three days a week. Add weight to them every workout, but be careful not to add too much and be greedy. I started out adding 10 pounds every workout for a couple weeks and then when I felt it getting heavier, dropped it to adding 5 lbs, and so on. The key is to increase gains every workout, no matter how little. There's alot more info between the lines, but once you reach your natural peak (including the rest of your lifts) at the novice level, you'll no longer be able to increase every workout, and you'll be able to then move on to the intermediate "5x5" variation, increasing lifts every week.
if you're new to squats, since I assume you are when you stated you just started working out, it's perfectly fine to do them three days a week. Add weight to them every workout, but be careful not to add too much and be greedy. I started out adding 10 pounds every workout for a couple weeks and then when I felt it getting heavier, dropped it to adding 5 lbs, and so on. The key is to increase gains every workout, no matter how little. There's alot more info between the lines, but once you reach your natural peak (including the rest of your lifts) at the novice level, you'll no longer be able to increase every workout, and you'll be able to then move on to the intermediate "5x5" variation, increasing lifts every week.
mad dipz said:
yep. Elementality, just do as the 5x5 workout by madcow says. EXACTLY as it says. Don't fuggin worry about isolation bullshit for now. Just follow the plan and eat like a horse...you'll grow. You're not ready to be worrying about your "biceps peak" just yet.
Elementality
New member
sounds good. One question though, im a little confused here because i was reading the 5x5 and it said to do 5 sets of the same weight, but then I came to this paragraph <in quotations
"Ramping Weights:
This is basically increasing your weight set to set like warming up. If your top set of 5 is 315, you might go 135, 185, 225, 275, and then 315 all for 5 reps. There are several reasons for this, you are warming up, getting a lot of practice and really groove the coordination of the lifts, and contributing to workload without raising it so high that fatigue overcomes you and you overtrain. If you do 315 for all 5 sets, workload is a lot higher and doing that a couple of times a week ensures that you won't last long on this program.
Typically jumps can be somewhere between 10-15% per set based on your top set (or 12.5% and round up or down). An easy way to figure this is to find out what 10% and 15% are for your top set and then track backwards into the other sets using the variance to round or help it make sense.
Your top set is 100lbs
10% is 10lbs and 15% is 15lbs
Your 5th set is 100x5, 4th is 90x5, 3rd is 80x5, 2nd is 70x5, and 1st is 60x5
These are the minimum jumps of 10%, the math doesn't always look this neat but using 12.5% isn't as intuitively easy to see for explaining this.
Make sure this makes sense and you aren't so strong as to make the jumps ridiculous at 10-15%. But keep in mind, going 200, 205, 210, 215, and 220 is a lot closer to 220 for 5x5 and that's too much on this kind of frequency, it will fatigue you a lot faster (i.e. prevent you from progressing) and hurt your ability to get as much as possible with your top set."
So my question is, when i get ready to dead lift, squat or bench should i do a few warm ups then do my 5 rep max sets 5 times? or should i include my warm ups as part of my 5 sets?
"Ramping Weights:
This is basically increasing your weight set to set like warming up. If your top set of 5 is 315, you might go 135, 185, 225, 275, and then 315 all for 5 reps. There are several reasons for this, you are warming up, getting a lot of practice and really groove the coordination of the lifts, and contributing to workload without raising it so high that fatigue overcomes you and you overtrain. If you do 315 for all 5 sets, workload is a lot higher and doing that a couple of times a week ensures that you won't last long on this program.
Typically jumps can be somewhere between 10-15% per set based on your top set (or 12.5% and round up or down). An easy way to figure this is to find out what 10% and 15% are for your top set and then track backwards into the other sets using the variance to round or help it make sense.
Your top set is 100lbs
10% is 10lbs and 15% is 15lbs
Your 5th set is 100x5, 4th is 90x5, 3rd is 80x5, 2nd is 70x5, and 1st is 60x5
These are the minimum jumps of 10%, the math doesn't always look this neat but using 12.5% isn't as intuitively easy to see for explaining this.
Make sure this makes sense and you aren't so strong as to make the jumps ridiculous at 10-15%. But keep in mind, going 200, 205, 210, 215, and 220 is a lot closer to 220 for 5x5 and that's too much on this kind of frequency, it will fatigue you a lot faster (i.e. prevent you from progressing) and hurt your ability to get as much as possible with your top set."
So my question is, when i get ready to dead lift, squat or bench should i do a few warm ups then do my 5 rep max sets 5 times? or should i include my warm ups as part of my 5 sets?
Elementality
New member
nevermind, i got it all figured out. thanks for the help, i ll let you know how it worked out in a month to two months
Elementality said:
hopefully you found the right answer. If you just go to madcow's site and download the excel spreadsheet for the beginner 5x5 program, you can plug in your weights and it will tell you exactly how much to do on each of the 5 sets. It really doesn't get any simpler.
