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Hair Loss...

njpipes

New member
What juice is a safer bet to stick with if I want to lessen the chances of hair loss?

Also since I'm currently on propecia/rogaine..is there anything (juice) that I could take that would react badly with it?

I'm about to hit some test (not too high a dosage)and dbols so i was wondering ...and before you say it, i know these 2 are bad for hair loss but somtimes you just gotta say what the fuck

thanks

Buy propecia Buy rogaine
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deca and propecia is the absolutely worse thing you can ever imagine for your hair.

Deca and Fina are the easiest on the hair followed by (in order) anavar, primo, winstrol, everything else.



-Stew
 
Stew,

I have seen you post about how easy tren is on the hairline before. What do you base this on? I have heard more than a few guys complain about hairloss with tren which has led me to stay away from it. Do you have information to the contrary?
 
HEY STEW I TOO HEARD TREN (FINAJET) IS HIGH IN ANDROGENS THEREFORE IF IT BINDS TO THE RECEPTORS IT CAN CAUSE FURTHER HAIRLOSS , RIGHT?
 
Anabolicum Mister said:
Stew,

I have seen you post about how easy tren is on the hairline before. What do you base this on? I have heard more than a few guys complain about hairloss with tren which has led me to stay away from it. Do you have information to the contrary?


It is easy on the hair as it converts to DHN via 5-alpha reductase which has the lowest androgenic activity in the scalp.

Primo, Winstrol, or DHT derivitives are hard on the hair, but not as bad as testosterone and test analouges which convert into DHT which has greater androgenic activity in the scalp than its analogs....
 
ripped1979 said:
HEY STEW I TOO HEARD TREN (FINAJET) IS HIGH IN ANDROGENS THEREFORE IF IT BINDS TO THE RECEPTORS IT CAN CAUSE FURTHER HAIRLOSS , RIGHT?


Very androgenic, but as long as you don't use finasteride with it, it will convert to DHN wich has very low activity in the scalp. The same is true for deca.



-Stew
 
Stew Meat said:



Primo, Winstrol, or DHT derivitives are hard on the hair, but not as bad as testosterone and test analouges which convert into DHT which has greater androgenic activity in the scalp than its analogs....


so primo, winstrol or dht derivitives will do a number on your hair, but the testosterones will do a bigger number on your hair
 
Even I take Stew's word about studies he saw that prove 5-alpha reductase effect on Trenbolone, and that it does get reduced to analogue of DHN,but it doesn't mean that Fina is safe for hair.
Deca-deffinately.... and relatively, if you compare to Anavar,for example.
But, even if Trenbolone gets reduced to something milder that shit is still going to be strong androgen, don't forget Trenbolone is 3-times stronger androgen then Test 3 and in unreduced state it's slightly stronger then DHT.
Also, very good point Stew is making that Finasteride(Proscar,Propecia) shouldn't be used with Nandrolones(Deca) or Trenbolones(Fina) because it will accelerate hair loss.
So, the formula is simple: stay away from Deca or Fina, use Finasteride(Proscar,Propecia), Saw Palmetto, Nizoral shampoo, Minoxidil(xandrox)
 
JUST ONE MORE THING STEW, SO BASICALLY WHAT UR SAYING IF I WERE TO STACK NORANDREN 200 WITH FINAJET (TREN) AND USE XANDROX5%, NIZOARL 2%, I SHOULD BE OK WITH MY HAIR, BECAUSE I'M ALREADY PRONE TO HAIRLOSS!? PLEASE HELP...
 
panerai said:
Even I take Stew's word about studies he saw that prove 5-alpha reductase effect on Trenbolone, and that it does get reduced to analogue of DHN,but it doesn't mean that Fina is safe for hair.
Deca-deffinately.... and relatively, if you compare to Anavar,for example.
But, even if Trenbolone gets reduced to something milder that shit is still going to be strong androgen, don't forget Trenbolone is 3-times stronger androgen then Test 3 and in unreduced state it's slightly stronger then DHT.
Also, very good point Stew is making that Finasteride(Proscar,Propecia) shouldn't be used with Nandrolones(Deca) or Trenbolones(Fina) because it will accelerate hair loss.
So, the formula is simple: stay away from Deca or Fina, use Finasteride(Proscar,Propecia), Saw Palmetto, Nizoral shampoo, Minoxidil(xandrox)


How "strong" of an androgen a particular steroid is has NOTHING to do with how much androgenic activity it has within the scalp. Various types of steroids have vairous properties and the properties of the analog are different than the parent compound. Fina has very low androgenic activity in the scalp.


-Stew
 
ripped1979 said:
JUST ONE MORE THING STEW, SO BASICALLY WHAT UR SAYING IF I WERE TO STACK NORANDREN 200 WITH FINAJET (TREN) AND USE XANDROX5%, NIZOARL 2%, I SHOULD BE OK WITH MY HAIR, BECAUSE I'M ALREADY PRONE TO HAIRLOSS!? PLEASE HELP...

I'm not familiar with xandrox, but tren and nandralone are the easiset on the hairline. They have very low activity in the scalp. THERE IS NOT AN OFF OR ON occurance of hairloss... it is based on percentages. The percentage of nandralone and tren's androgenic activity in the scalp is very low, therefore it is the least likely to promote hairloss. If you carry a gene that promotes hairloss, even these partiular steroids can accelerate hairloss by some degree... By the same standards, DHT will not promote much of any hairloss in those who have strong resistance to hairloss... even though DHT has the highest androgenic activity in the scalp.



-Stew
 
I've personally experience the tren/proscar effect. It was not pretty. Later I ran tren in very high doses with saw palmetto, and had no hairloss at all:)
 
Exactly! I love to argue(in cevilized manner), but when Stew pointed in one previous thread that Trenbolone might be reduced by 5-A reductase, I had to agree, because I went through the whole experience myself.
It never crossed my mind that Fina could have same properties toward hairloss as Deca. So, I, avoiding Deca and thinking that I'm safe(I'm prone to MPB, and pretty much succesfully slowing the process down for years) use Tren in stack with Test and dbol, and was gegging at the amount of hair loss.
On a contrary, lots of users report increased hairloss while using Tren(Fina). And, if you consider facts that Primo, or Winny(uncomparably weaker androgens, can cause haos in hair just by themself in a slightly higher doses) you will agree, that even if(and it's not proven yet,anyway) the androgenic properties of Tren are reduced by 5-alpha reductase, it's still motherfukking strong shit for your little bushes...
 
Every androgen has SOME androgenic activity in the scalp... some just have higher percentages in the muscle tissue than they do in the scalp tissue... But EVERYTHING can cause SOME hairloss if you are geneticly predisposed to hairloss. Even if you took finasteride at 20357029387502937523475023mg per day, it would only block a percentage of DHT formation and would only LOWER the percentage of hairloss in geneticly predisposed persons...




-Stew
 
its fucking hair!!!!!!!!! who gives a shit....shave it cut it close whatever why even worry??? chicks dig the bald look ...i mean so oo many people who arent evenlosin hair go with that look.....wear a hat bandanna whatever.... i never ever can comprehend this kinda of thread..i understand how some people are andim that way to an extent but fellas get a grip...its hair most of y a shave allurother hairoff...eh wahtever to each his own....bro u only live once u goona letsome hair standin between what juice u do....lets see Enanthate/dbol
primo/deca d eca alone etc etc/////i think u get the point ..........hope i shed some light bro..just tryin to help
 
Imprint are you bald? You seem to get a bit defensive to a subject a lot of bros are concerned about. Why not try to keep the hair that you do have, if you can? No flame here;)
 
njpipes said:
What juice is a safer bet to stick with if I want to lessen the chances of hair loss?

Also since I'm currently on propecia/rogaine..is there anything (juice) that I could take that would react badly with it?

I'm about to hit some test (not too high a dosage)and dbols so i was wondering ...and before you say it, i know these 2 are bad for hair loss but somtimes you just gotta say what the fuck

thanks


If i were you i would not touch dbol!!! Sure you make great gains fromt woth it, but it will 99% sureley cause hairloss to you if you are prone to it. Dbol and Anadrol anre probably worsest steroids considering hairloss.

I would hit Test and Eq instead and use Finasteride, Xandrox and spirolactone. Then you probalby wont see hairloss at all, but great gains.

But those are just my opininons. Do what ever you like.
 
imprint516 said:
its fucking hair!!!!!!!!! who gives a shit....shave it cut it close whatever why even worry??? chicks dig the bald look ...i mean so oo many people who arent evenlosin hair go with that look.....wear a hat bandanna whatever.... i never ever can comprehend this kinda of thread..i understand how some people are andim that way to an extent but fellas get a grip...its hair most of y a shave allurother hairoff...eh wahtever to each his own....bro u only live once u goona letsome hair standin between what juice u do....lets see Enanthate/dbol
primo/deca d eca alone etc etc/////i think u get the point ..........hope i shed some light bro..just tryin to help

But those fuckin hair are more important than muscle for many people. I guess you are bald and you are just trying to prove yourself that baldness is cool, well IMO it sucks ass!!! Stop posting threads like this if you dont have naythin better to say.
 
ripped1979 said:
JUST ONE MORE THING STEW, SO BASICALLY WHAT UR SAYING IF I WERE TO STACK NORANDREN 200 WITH FINAJET (TREN) AND USE XANDROX5%, NIZOARL 2%, I SHOULD BE OK WITH MY HAIR, BECAUSE I'M ALREADY PRONE TO HAIRLOSS!? PLEASE HELP...

Xandrox is a DHT blocker and so is Saw Palmetto, so you cant use them with nadrolones. It will do the same trick as finasteride.

Eq is lot better than Deca because if you stack it with test you can use DHT blockers without broblems.
 
Great, great, great post!!!

I was just sitting down with my list working out what I wanted and Decca and Dbol were on top, but after reading this I'm crossing them off.

I'll go with Test. types and Eq because I already use Propeica in my day-to-day life.

Thanks for the info., fellas.

Somebody should write up a cycle for guys prone to MPB. Split it up between a growth cycle and a cutting cycle.

Great stuff. I am indebted.
 
Anyone know how long proscar stays active in your system. I am about to run a heavy test susp/eq cycle for 8 weeks and then swap the test for tren. I'll be using proscar with the test, and was thinking of stopping it about 2 days before I hit the tren. Is that enough time?

I'll be hedging my bets by also using saw palmetto an nizoral the whole time.
 
na im not bald....its just my opinion thats all. not gettin defensive..its just i lookat it and alls it is i s hair...but like i said to each his own...iwould never see myself not doin certain gear just cuz of it fuking w my hair thats all take it easy bros
 
I think winstrol is the worst for hair loss. I about went bald using it in 98 at a cc a day. I took proscar after and all my hair came back though.
 
Stew Meat said:
Deca and propecia is the absolutely worse thing you can ever imagine for your hair.

Deca and Fina are the easiest on the hair followed by (in order) anavar, primo, winstrol, everything else.



-Stew



Stew,

Could you please explain why Deca combined with Propecia is bad for your hairline. I understand that Propecia wouldn't help with hairloss since Deca isn't prone to DHT conversion, but why would this combination be bad if you were taking, say, Deca, Test and Propecia? Thanks.
 
im taking that fucking finastride shit. its only 1mg pill. i used to take propecia and if i recall, it was 5mg. is it ok to take that with test and eq at the same time. ill try to keep my hair. i know ill be as bald as my girls snatch in about 5 years but better later than sooner. anyone see results with the 1mg finasteride shit?
 
Juicer Jr.

That's from Q&A with Bill Roberts:

"Are there any other steroids i.e. Equipose, Anavar, that are mild on hair loss besides Deca?

Nope, in my opinion all synthetics except Deca are equal to each other, and equal to Deca + Propecia"

What does it mean? It means that Deca gets converted by 5-alpha reductase enzyme to DeHydroNandrolone, same way as Test to DHT. DHN is very weak androgen, probably the weakest and deffinately is very mild on hair. It makes Deca the safest steroid for hair.
But, using Finasteride( Proscar, Propecia) will to great degree inhibit convertion of Deca to DHT, and then Deca itself can do as much harm to hair as other strong androgens, like Winny or Dbol.
 
SUSTINON 250

Hey,

I am new to this board but not all that new to gear. I used sustinon 250 got great gains and had zero hair problems even with ahre loss a prob in my fam. I do one thing at a time and do not stac. So, what would you guys consifer the 4 TOP safest gear for hair? Also if I have had hair loss and take Propecia will it regrow the lost hair and can I stop taking it and maintain the new hair??

Thanks all,
Glad to be a part of this board!!!
 
Juicer Jr. said:




Stew,

Could you please explain why Deca combined with Propecia is bad for your hairline. I understand that Propecia wouldn't help with hairloss since Deca isn't prone to DHT conversion, but why would this combination be bad if you were taking, say, Deca, Test and Propecia? Thanks.

Nandralone (active ingredient in Deca) is the worst possible thing you could ever imagine for your hair. This hormone has the MOST androgenic activity in the hair. However, 5-alpha reductase has a very strong affinity towards nandralone. This 5-AR turns nandralone into DHN. DHN is not DHT. DHN has the LOWEST androgenic activity in the scalp. DHN's androgenic activity is concentrated in muscle tissue (not the scalp). So, Deca and nandralone analogs are actually the SAFEST steroids as they will have the LOWEST androgenic activity in the scalp post 5-alpha reduction. If you stop 5-AR from converting nandralone to DHN, you keep Deca as an androgen that concentrates its androgenic activity in the scalp causing extreme hairloss. This is why finasteride will make your hair fall out if you use it in conjunction with Deca. Finasteride prevents Deca from turning into the safe DHN.



-Stew
 
vinnie said:
tastes like french vanilla.:p
but what about the finasteride shit? is it ok with test and eq?

Finasteride will be great with EQ and testosterone.


-Stew
 
Anabolicum Mister said:
Well, Stew, I'm going to ask you to post this study with trenbolone and 5AR as I can't seem to find it anywhere.


What would you like to know about trenbelone and 5-AR?


-Stew
 
vinnie said:
im taking that fucking finastride shit. its only 1mg pill. i used to take propecia and if i recall, it was 5mg. is it ok to take that with test and eq at the same time. ill try to keep my hair. i know ill be as bald as my girls snatch in about 5 years but better later than sooner. anyone see results with the 1mg finasteride shit?

In clinical studies, 5mg per day was only slightly more effective than 1mg/day. I beleive the 5mg/day reduced androgenic activty in the scalp by 70% and 1mg/day reduced androgenic activity in the scalp by 65%. 1.25mg/day of Fincar is what I suggest on a cost/effect basis.



-Stew
 
Hugh Gellatts said:
I've personally experience the tren/proscar effect. It was not pretty. Later I ran tren in very high doses with saw palmetto, and had no hairloss at all:)



Trenbelone should not be taken with saw palmetto. SP has the potential to block tren's conversion to DHN. Trenbelone (a nandralone analog) is VERY hard on the hairline unless it is allowed to convert to DHN via 5-alpha reductase.


-Stew
 
STEW:
Thanks for taking the time to go through this Stew. I understand what you are saying about tren and DHN conversion. I just have never found anyone else to confirm it- and I'm too lazy/busy to go to the damn library myself just for curiosity's sake. I'll take your word it.

BTW - what is with people replying in the middle with questions that were already answered in the same damn thread (i.e. which are easiest on the hair?). Goddamn people, read the previous posts in the thread before you ask the same questions again.
 
Stew Meat said:



What would you like to know about trenbelone and 5-AR?


-Stew

I have not seen any information showing that tren actually converts to DHN. I would be interested in seeing this info if you could make it available.
 
I hope that was a joke - if you are serious (and I don't see LOL or smilies) read my post just above.
 
I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS, BUT I HEARD THE TOP 3 STEROIDS EASY ON THE HAIRLINE ARE AS FOLLOWS:
1)DECA
2)ANAVAR
3)FINAJET-FINPLIX
WHAT DO U GUYS THINK???
 
I don't think that Fina even if it is effected by 5 alpha reductase is safe or one of the safest for hair. It's as strong as DHT in its original state. Let's assume that conversion does really happen and it does get reduced to DHTrenbolone. Logically, the strength of it, as androgen will be somewhat same as Testosteron( or dbol, or Anadrol)
In doses that most guys use now (75mg/eod) I guess, it's on a safe side. But up it to 75mg/ed or higher and your hair will start falling out.
 
panerai said:
I don't think that Fina even if it is effected by 5 alpha reductase is safe or one of the safest for hair. It's as strong as DHT in its original state. Let's assume that conversion does really happen and it does get reduced to DHTrenbolone.


There is no such thing as DHTrenbelone. DHT stands for dihydrotestosterone.
The active ingredient in fina is trenbelone acetate. Trenbelone is simple an analog of nandralone. They are almost chemicaly interchangeable... almost the exact same thing. Fina is no worse than Deca on the hairline as they are both almost entirely converted to DHN which has VERY LOW ANDROGENIC ACTIVITY IN THE SCALP.


And no, fina is not safe for the hair if the actions of 5-AR are inhibited... I'm starting to sound like a broken fucking record here. Like MadCow said, read the other posts in this thread.



-Stew
 
panerai said:
Logically, the strength of it, as androgen will be somewhat same as Testosteron( or dbol, or Anadrol)
In doses that most guys use now (75mg/eod) I guess, it's on a safe side. But up it to 75mg/ed or higher and your hair will start falling out.

The "strength" of it does not have a damn thing to do with how much androgenic activity it induces within the scalp.



-Stew
 
Anabolicum Mister said:
Well, Stew, I'm going to ask you to post this study with trenbolone and 5AR as I can't seem to find it anywhere.


Relative binding affinities of testosterone and analogs, 19-nortestosterone, and their 5-alpha reduced derivitaves to the androgen receptor and other androgen binding proteins.

Journal of Steroid Biochemistry 1982 17:653-60





Finasteride: a review of its use in male pattern hairloss. Drugs 1999 Jan; 57;(1):111-26



THe effect of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia.

J Am Acad Dermatol 1999 Oct;41(4):550-4






Relative importance of 5-alpha reduction for the androgenic activities of ketosteroids. Steroids 1977 Mar;29(3):331-48



-Stew
 
propecia is supposed to slow the hair loss down after 6 months to a year. 6 months after that, it will very very slowly start to regenerate or regrow where it once was. the root has to still be in good condition. my doc told me that. maybe he is full of shit. i wont know for a few months at least.
 
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great info stew. I never knew tren was an analog of nandrolone, and it seems not too many people do. I've been reading this board for a year, and I have never seen that posted before. I'd never even thought about using tren, because of how androgenic it is, but If what you say is true, it's going to be included in my next cycle.:cool:
 
Stew Meat said:


There is no such thing as DHTrenbelone. DHT stands for dihydrotestosterone.
The active ingredient in fina is trenbelone acetate. Trenbelone is simple an analog of nandralone. They are almost chemicaly interchangeable... almost the exact same thing. Fina is no worse than Deca on the hairline as they are both almost entirely converted to DHN which has VERY LOW ANDROGENIC ACTIVITY IN THE SCALP.



-Stew [/B]

Trenbolone is not an analog of Nandrolone, and even both are similar, still they are far from being "almost the exact same thing" and we all know it.
I'm aware that DHTrenbolone doesn't exist, but called it that name because I never heard of any other name for it. As, for your statement that Trenbolone converts to DeHydroNandrolone, hm.....was it a joke? The structure of those two parent molecule( Tren and Nandrolone) are not that close....
I stumbled today on article from Bill Roberts and that's what he's saying about Trenbolone:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trenbolone is a steroid having the advantages of undergoing no adverse metabolism, not being affected by aromatase or 5alpha-reductase; of being very potent Class I steroid binding well to the androgen receptor; and having a short half life, probably no more than a day or two though I don't believe this has been measured"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I already e-mailed Bill and ask him if he can provide scientific evidence for that statement.
If he'll respond, I will post it.
 
OK, I had to reread this thread a few times, but I think I got it.

In layman's terms:

IF YOU ALREADY use Propecia or Proscar (Finasteride products), then Decca, Tren, or any nandralone steroid will be harmful to your hairline! The reason is because the Finasteride doesn't allow the Decca, Tren, etc. to be broken down into DHN, which is relatively harmless to your hair. Basically, if you already use Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto, or any product that works by blocking DHT, then stick to the Test. steroids.

NOW, IF YOU DON'T already use Propecia, Proscar, or Saw Palmetto (products that work by blocking DHT), then go ahead and use Decca, Tren (nadralone steroids) because they are actually safer on the hair. Only when in the presence of Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto (DHT blockers) do they become lethal to our hairlines.

Is this about it?

Now, what about some of the other hair products. Anybody got any layman's rules for them?
 
What do you guys think of Primobolin depo and proviron on the hair. Im new to this so, is this is a crazy question go easy on me! :)
 
BADSPELL68 said:
What do you guys think of Primobolin depo and proviron on the hair. Im new to this so, is this is a crazy question go easy on me! :)

Some bro's have said that Primo cause bad hairloss them when some others say it os ok. I guess it depends on a person like it always do ;)

Dont know about proviron.
 
razer2000 said:
OK, I had to reread this thread a few times, but I think I got it.

In layman's terms:

IF YOU ALREADY use Propecia or Proscar (Finasteride products), then Decca, Tren, or any nandralone steroid will be harmful to your hairline! The reason is because the Finasteride doesn't allow the Decca, Tren, etc. to be broken down into DHN, which is relatively harmless to your hair. Basically, if you already use Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto, or any product that works by blocking DHT, then stick to the Test. steroids.

-But if you use Proscar, Propecia or Saw Palmetto so the deca can't be broken down to DHN, what does it get broken down to that makes it so bad for the hairline? If the answer is DHT which is quite harmful to the hairline it shouldn't matter because the Saw palmetto etc is already there blocking DHT, or what?

NOW, IF YOU DON'T already use Propecia, Proscar, or Saw Palmetto (products that work by blocking DHT), then go ahead and use Decca, Tren (nadralone steroids) because they are actually safer on the hair. Only when in the presence of Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto (DHT blockers) do they become lethal to our hairlines.

-I'm from Norway and I have never heard of Propecia and Proscar. Guess they are called something else where I live. But do they all work like Saw Palmetto? And guys use it when they notice hairloss with or without steroids..?


Is this about it?

Now, what about some of the other hair products. Anybody got any layman's rules for them?
 
panerai said:
Trenbolone is not an analog of Nandrolone,

Yes, tren is an analog of nandralone.

and even both are similar, still they are far from being "almost the exact same thing"

I never said they were the same thing. I said tren was an analog of nandralone [/quote]


and we all know it.

Do we now... Well, I'm the only one that seems to have researched this and no one else has presented any info or research about nandralone. You are not born with knowlege of nandralone/tren. You have to research. If you don't, you don't "know it."

I'm aware that DHTrenbolone doesn't exist, but called it that name because I never heard of any other name for it.
there is no "other name for it." It doesn't exist.


As, for your statement that Trenbolone converts to DeHydroNandrolone, hm.....was it a joke? The structure of those two parent molecule( Tren and Nandrolone) are not that close....
I dont' know why you put "that" in bold caps, but you are right, they are not exactly the same. However, tren is an analog of nortestosterone and converts to DHN via 5-AR.

I stumbled today on article from Bill Roberts and that's what he's saying about Trenbolone:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trenbolone is a steroid having the advantages of undergoing no adverse metabolism, not being affected by aromatase or 5alpha-reductase; of being very potent Class I steroid binding well to the androgen receptor; and having a short half life, probably no more than a day or two though I don't believe this has been measured"

Trenbelone is not affected by aromatase as it is not an analog of testosterone... thus is not structurally capable of converting to estrodiol. Trenbelone is not an ester, it is a hormone. Trenbelone will have whatever halfife the ester attached to it allows it to have. For instance, Parabolan had a life of about a week. Bill obviously hadn't looked at tren very closely or at the time he wrote that, not much was known about trenbelone. Tren converts to DHN via 5-alpha reductase.

I already e-mailed Bill and ask him if he can provide scientific evidence for that statement.
If he'll respond, I will post it.

I can't wait for him to clear it up for you.





-Stew
 
razer2000 said:
OK, I had to reread this thread a few times, but I think I got it.

In layman's terms:

IF YOU ALREADY use Propecia or Proscar (Finasteride products), then Decca, Tren, or any nandralone steroid will be harmful to your hairline! The reason is because the Finasteride doesn't allow the Decca, Tren, etc. to be broken down into DHN, which is relatively harmless to your hair. Basically, if you already use Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto, or any product that works by blocking DHT, then stick to the Test. steroids.

NOW, IF YOU DON'T already use Propecia, Proscar, or Saw Palmetto (products that work by blocking DHT), then go ahead and use Decca, Tren (nadralone steroids) because they are actually safer on the hair. Only when in the presence of Propecia, Proscar, Saw Palmetto (DHT blockers) do they become lethal to our hairlines.

Is this about it?


You nailed it, bro.





-Stew
 
Originally posted by E2.





Pharmacological and endocrinological studies on anabolic agents.

Neumann F

When used in connection with animal production the term "anabolic agents" covers a wide range. Ther steroidal male and female sex hormones are included in this list, as are the nonsteroidal estrogens. For the clinician and for the endocrinologist, anabolics are only steroids chemically related to testosterone and 19-nortestosterone. Estrogens, though possessing anabolic properties, too, do not belong to this class. This paper will deal with anabolic agents in in the stricter sense of which mainly trenbolone acetate combined with hexestrol has been recommended for bull and heifer fattening. To consider possible consumer injury from ingestion of meat from anabolic agent treated animals, it is necessary to know the pharmacological properties of the agents, the doses producing certain effects or might produce, and the levels of residues in the meat. Trenbolone acetate will be compared with the following anabolic agents: methenolone acetate, methandrostenolone, nandrone, androstanazole, and 19-nortestosterone. The activity spectrum of trenbolone acetate is similar to that of 19-nortestosterone or those anabolics that are derived from 19-nortestosterone. The compound has about three times stronger androgenic effect than testosterone propionate. Its index of dissociation between anabolic/androgenic activity is 2--3. This index is 3--10 for the other anabolic agents. As regards the virilizing potency, trenbolone acetate is also on the top of the list. It seems that androgenicity and degree of virilization run paralle. The antigonadotropic activity (inhibition of ovulation and testicular growth) of trenbolone acetate exceeds that of testosterone propionate by the factor 3. The compound is not estrogenic and seemingly not or only weakly progestationally active. In principle, the androgenic activity (symptoms of virilization) as well as the antigonadotropic effect (disturbances of the menstrual cycle in women, inhibition of spermiogenesis in men) of trenbolone acetate might be noted.








-Stew
 
OK, I read some more and have to admit that Stew is right, trenbolone and 19-nortestosteron are structural analogs.
But, just that fact alone doesn't prove that Trenbolone can be 5-alpha reduced.
As an example, 7-alpha methyl-19-nortestosteron(MENT) is also very close analog with nandrolone. But it doesn't get 5-alpha reduced.
Just because two different steroids are similar doesn't mean that they are the same.
 
This is a great thread and should go to the top.
Stew,
What are your thoughts on the effects of Halo on the hair?? Are they similar to Fina?

FYI..
I did Deca + Winny and Winny + (Finabolin) Fina last year and didn't notive any hair loss, but I know I am prone to it..
 
e-man said:
This is a great thread and should go to the top.
Stew,
What are your thoughts on the effects of Halo on the hair?? Are they similar to Fina?

FYI..
I did Deca + Winny and Winny + (Finabolin) Fina last year and didn't notive any hair loss, but I know I am prone to it..

How do you know it? Even if our mother, father and brother is bald yuou may be lucky one. It is very difficult to know before hair starts to fallout. What i have reded the hairloss may come from both parents or far on deep of the family.

This is my problem i fear that i'm prone, but i dont know. I'm hoping that i'm just paranoid. I'm 22 and i have not any problems, but still i'm paranoid.

I have hairloss sydroma. Lol
 
This is a great thread and should go to the top.
Stew,
What are your thoughts on the effects of Halo on the hair?? Are they similar to Fina?

FYI..
I did Deca + Winny and Winny + (Finabolin) Fina last year and didn't notive any hair loss, but I know I am prone to it..
 
e-man said:
This is a great thread and should go to the top.
Stew,
What are your thoughts on the effects of Halo on the hair?? Are they similar to Fina?

FYI..
I did Deca + Winny and Winny + (Finabolin) Fina last year and didn't notive any hair loss, but I know I am prone to it..


Halo is a testosterone derivitive. It will convert to DHT via 5-AR.

-Stew
 
I must disagree

Stew,

Those studies that you posted told me very little (if anything) about the metabolism of trenbolone. Other than the original post by E2, I have not seen one shred of evidence to prove your theory that trenbolone is 5-alpha reduced. You claim that it is because it is a structural analog of nandrolone. What does this have to do with anything? Many 3-keto-4 ene steroids are very similar structurally. Does this mean that they have the same binding affinities for the androgen receptor or the same efficacy when used in a cycle. No! Then why must they have the same affinity for 5-alpha reductase?

Let's first discuss how structurally similar these analogs are. In terms of the A-ring they are identical, since they are both 3-keto-4-ene steroids. Therefore, it is possible that trenbolone could be a substrate for the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. However, the B, C, and D rings differ considerably. You claim that trenbolone (17b-hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one) converts to 5a-DHN (3a-hydroxy-5a-estran-17-one). For this to happen, the B ring would need to have the 9-10 double bond broken, the C ring would have to have the 11-12 double bond broken, and the D ring would need to have a ketone group replace the 17b-hydroxy group and the 17-a dihydro. What enzymes (or other method) do you propose catalyse these reactions? If these enzymes do exist, they are not common to the metabolism of other steroids and/or have not yet been discovered. In fact, in a study done on the urinary excretion of steroid metabolites, a 5-alpha reduced metabolite of trenbolone was not detected. In fact, the only trenbolone metabolite detected was 17-epitrenbolone. As such, I am very confident in saying that I highly doubt that trenbolone converts to DHN. Unless you can provide proof otherwise, I will stand by my conviction.

I believe what I have heard anecdotally that tren can be harsh on the hair in those susceptible. I very much would like to believe that this is not true, since I suffer from MPB myself. But I think that you are misinforming people when you claim that it is one of the best steroids in terms of hairloss effects. I believe (as do you) that for those truly afflicted with MPB, any steroid, deca included, can accelerate hairloss. While deca may be milder than most, I also believe that it is dose/individual dependent. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but there is no 'safe' steroid when it comes to matters of hairloss.

A.M.
 
Re: I must disagree

Anabolicum Mister said:
Stew,

Those studies that you posted told me very little (if anything) about the metabolism of trenbolone. Other than the original post by E2, I have not seen one shred of evidence to prove your theory that trenbolone is 5-alpha reduced. You claim that it is because it is a structural analog of nandrolone.


I NEVER claimed that it was 5-alpha reduced becasue it was an analog of nandralone. That has been an entirely different argument altogether.

What does this have to do with anything? Many 3-keto-4 ene steroids are very similar structurally. Does this mean that they have the same binding affinities for the androgen receptor or the same efficacy when used in a cycle. No!

I never said that the fact that it was structurally similar to nandralone that it reacted like nandralone. However, it does. The evidence is in the studies that I have already cited for you above. The fact that bolderone is 5-alpha reduced is not due to its structural similarity to testosterone, yet they behave they are both 5-alpha reduced. Likewise, trenbelone and methandrostenelone are 5-alpha reduced and are not structurally simillar.

Let's first discuss how structurally similar these analogs are.
As has already been stated several times by those who have not researched this, just becasue a hormone is structurally similar doesn't mean it has the same mode of action nor the same properties, i.e. testosterone and estrodiol are structurally similar, yet they have different properties that cause them to different actions.

As such, I am very confident in saying that I highly doubt that trenbolone converts to DHN. Unless you can provide proof otherwise, I will stand by my conviction.

I have already provided sufficient evidence.



-Stew
 
As if I haven't already provided sufficient refrences, check this one:



"Clinically significant drug interactions in dermatology"
Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
April 1998 • Volume 38 • Number 4 • p599 to p612



If I find some more, I'll come back and add them here.


I'll try to find you a complete abstract or full text.


-Stew
 
Here's some great research on hairloss... It actually uses some of the same refrences that I've cited.





Hair loss is a particularly worrying occurrence for most men, especially in a society as image driven as ours. As unrelated as it may be, having a full head of hair is often equated to a self-sense of potency and masculinity among men. It is no wonder that the possibility of losing ones hair due to steroid use is one of the most common concerns of the steroid-using athlete. The release of the prescription medication Propecia® (finasteride) has given help to the multitude of men noticing the early signs of hair loss, and similarly has lent hope to many athletes that a medication could exist that would alleviate the worry regarding this particular steroid-related side effect. In order to assess the true usefulness of finasteride with athletes, it is likewise important to take a look at its action as well as the natural causes for hair loss.

It is technically termed androgenetic alopecia. As you might have assessed by the first word, this type of hair loss (the most common form) concerns the interplay of both androgenic hormones and a genetic predisposition. What happens for those genetically inclined is that androgen receptor stimulation in the scalp will slowly cause ones hair follicles to shrink. Hair loss will ultimately occur with its progression. Androgenic hormones are likewise the trigger for this activity, and often the target for hair loss medications. Here you can see the problem with steroid use, namely greatly enhanced androgen action in the body due to hormonal supplementation.

The enzyme 5-alpha reductase plays a vital role in the development of androgenic alopecia in normal physiological situations. This enzyme is localized in androgen target tissues such as the skin, scalp, liver and prostate, and is responsible for the irreversible conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Dihydrotestosterone is a more potent activator of the androgen receptor than testosterone, measured to have at least three to four times greater potency. With the local production of DHT taking place in the scalp, its strong action is most often linked to the onset of hair loss. 5-alpha reductase is likewise an excellent target to combat hair loss, as its inhibition can greatly lower the level of androgen stimulation in scalp by making the weaker hormone testosterone the dominant force in this area.

Finasteride is a potent inhibitor of the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, specifically 5AR type II localized in the scalp and prostate. 1mg and 5mg doses have been shown to lower scalp concentrations of DHT by 64.1% and 69.4% respectively (1). Serum DHT levels also drop significantly with use, declining by 71.4% and 72.2% with the same doses. Understanding the strong action of DHT this amounts to a considerable reduction in androgenic activity, allowing finasteride to be quite effective at combating hair loss. In trials the drug was shown to be effective at enhancing hair growth in 66% of long term (2 years) treated men with androgenetic alopecia (2). This figure rises to 83% when we measure the group noting a halt in the recession of scalp hair. But the question at hand is will this success port over to the steroid-using athlete.

Obviously testosterone is the principle target for 5AR, so finasteride does affect the dynamics of all testosterone preparations. The testosterone analogues methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone (Halotestin®), methandrostenolone and boldenone also reduce to more potent steroids upon 5AR interaction (3,4). However this concludes the list of steroids that might call for the use of finasteride with hair-sensitive individuals. Methandrostenolone and boldenone in fact interact with 5-alpha reductase with extremely low affinity, so for all intents and purposed the benefit of finasteride with these drugs is likely insignificant.

Nandrolone and a few of its analogues also interact with 5-alpha reductase, however here this reduction is typically beneficial. Dihydronandrolone has a lower affinity for the androgen receptor than nandrolone; meaning here 5AR actually lowers the activity of this steroid in the scalp (5). The tendency is similar with ethylestrenol (Orabolin®), norethandrolone (Nilevar®) and trenbolone. What this basically means is that nandrolone and its analogues are typically slightly safer for hair loss than testosterone based drugs, in that they should exhibit greater activity in muscle tissue as compared to androgen target tissues such as the scalp due to this reduction.
If we inhibit 5-alpha reductase with finasteride, we are inadvertently increasing scalp androgenicity.

Other synthetics including stanozolol (Winstrol®), oxandrolone (Oxandrin®), oxymetholone (Anadrol®) and methenolone (Primobolan®) lack the structural characteristics (c4-5 double bond) necessary for alteration by 5-alpha reductase (6,7). This trait helps to even out the muscle and androgenic target potencies of these drugs, as no 5AR caused enhancing or diminishing of its activity occurs as with testosterone and nandrolone. Obviously finasteride would be useless in such a situation. Some of the above drugs, most notably oxandrolone and methenolone, are usually though of as “mild” by athletes and favored when hair loss is a worry. However we can see that nandrolone and its analogues are better choices in this regard, due to the greater dissociation between muscle and scalp activity.

Androgen receptor stimulation is again the ultimate trigger of hair loss, so one should not be fooled by any choice stack or drug combination. All anabolic/androgenic steroids work by activating the androgen receptor, and those espousing that DHT is the only worry are way off the mark. The man noticing the early signs of hair loss should similarly consider no one drug safe. A performance-enhancing dose of any steroid usually comes with it a greatly enhanced level of androgen activity in the body; otherwise the drugs would not be working to enhance muscle growth. Even if we inhibit the specific reduction of testosterone or its analogues to more potent metabolites in the scalp, the parent steroids are still obviously capable of activating the androgen receptor. The much higher level of testosterone during steroid use for example can easily compensate for the loss of DHT production, and androgenetic alopecia can still progress. The same holds true for any steroid.

The athlete noticing hair loss should likewise be cautious when considering steroid use. The best drug choice remains nandrolone, again due to its high ratio of anabolic to androgenic effect. With testosterone we should clearly consider finasteride as an aid in preventing hair loss, but drug dosage may be an equally important consideration. With 100mg weekly of an ester such as testosterone cypionate considered a typical replacement dose for example, one might not want to venture excessively higher if hair loss is a serious concern. Perhaps the most reasonable recommendation would be to use around 200mg weekly along with 1mg finasteride daily to inhibit DHT buildup, however this is just speculation and there may be more room for adjustment. I must stress again that with testosterone and finasteride, or even with nandrolone alone, a certain threshold can be reached where hair loss will progress. While the development of finasteride may equate to a milestone for men noticing hair loss under normal conditions, it is clearly not a cure-all for the steroid user.



1- The effect of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels. J Am Acad Dermatol 1999 Oct;41(4):550-4
2- Finasteride: a review of its use in male pattern hair loss. Drugs 1999 Jan;57(1):111-26
3- Relative importance of 5-alpha reduction for the androgenic inhibiting activities of delta-4-3-ketosteroids. Steroids. 1977 Mar;29(3):331-48
4- Testing for fluoxymesterone (Halotestin®) administration to man: Identification of urinary metabolites by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. J Steroid Biochem 36(6):659-666
5- Relative binding affinities of testosterone, 19-nortestosterone and their 5-alpha reduced derivatives to the androgen receptor and to other androgen-binding proteins. J Steroid Biochem 1982 17:653-60
6- Classification of anabolic steroids using the method of competitive metabolism. Exp Clin Endocrinol 1986 Jul;87(2):125-32
7- Metabolism of anabolic androgenic steroids. Clin Chem. 1996 42:1001-20



Well, Mister, if this can't show you the light, nothing can ;)




-Stew
 
Stew, sorry, but this time you are a way off the mark....
The "research" is very generally based on refferences, and none of those refferences do prove that Tren get 5-alpha reduced, it's just assumptions of the author.....well, I'm still waiting for Bill's responce.
 
O.K. Stew, now at least I know you didn't pull this out of your ass...lol. The tone of the article is very much in line with my own feelings regarding steroids and hairloss.

However, that is an article, not a research paper. Also, nowhere in the article does it state that trenbolone is 5-alpha reduced to DHN, which is what you are claiming. The closest the article comes to this is stating that similar to nandrolone, trenbolone is 5-alpha reduced to a less potent androgen. You will notice that, while the nandrolone conversion to the less harmful DHN is referenced, there is no reference to back up the statement about trenbolone. This is because it is purely speculation on the part of the author. In fact, nowhere in any of the references does it show the 5-alpha reduction of trenbolone to DHN. Ironically, if you take a close look at the study in reference (7), you will see that no 5-alpha reduced metabolite of trenbolone was detected at all, let alone DHN. This is the study that I eluded to earlier. Again, no evidence exists to back up your statement.

So, Stew, I guess Anabolicum Mister will be left alone in the dark while you enlighten the masses with this misinformation. I only wish you could look at my posts objectively and with an open mind and consider, just for a minute, that someone else could be right. If you do find some shred of evidence that proves me wrong, I would welcome the opportunity to admit my mistake. In any case, the brothers on the board can take a look at both of our arguments and come to their own conclusions. I only hope that most can think for themselves, rather than attaching a stigma to a name and following your advice blindly.

A.M.
 
I was looking at molecular structure of Test, Deca and Tren, and it seems that Stew is right, everything indicates that Tren should be 5-alpha reduced.
Lets take a look how does it happen with Testosteron.
The double bond between carbons 4 and 5 gets reduced(removed) and two hydrogen atoms are added, one at carb 4 and one at carb 5.
The -alpha- in 5-alpha reductase means that the hydrogen that is added in carbon 5 is added -alpha- to the ring, and ends up under or behind the ring, when viewed in 3-D.

test-dht.gif


Now, lets look at structure of Nandrolone. It has the same double bond between same 4 and 5 carbons( very important for it to be the same, otherwise "the key" of 5-alpha reductase will not fit)
We all know that Nandrolone gets 5-alpha reduced, so comparing its structure with Test, we can have general idea of what kind of structure will underdo that conversion.

Now, lets compare structure of Nandrolone and Trenbolone:

nandrolo.gif


Nandrolone

Trenbolo.gif


Trenbolone

As you can see Trenbolone is almost identical to Nandrolone with exception of one extra double bond in second ring and one in third, but those have no effect on 5-alpha binding.
The conclusion is that unless for some reason Trenbolone has very low affinity to 5-alpha reductase(like EQ and Dianabol do, for example) it should be 5-alpha reduced.

One more thing, even it gets 5-alpha reduced, doesn't mean that it's safe for hair, comparing to Deca, because being 3 times stronger androgen then Test, it will be reduced to still pretty much strong androgen, wich we can compare to Test, but a way stronger then DHN.
 
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It seems as though I've lost my only ally!

panerai said:
I was looking at molecular structure of Test, Deca and Tren, and it seems that Stew is right, everything indicates that Tren should be 5-alpha reduced.

Stew is right? Stew did not only claim that trenbolone is 5-alpha reduced, he claimed that it is 5-alpha reduced into dihydronandrolone!

As you can see Trenbolone is almost identical to Nandrolone

As you can see, nandrolone is much more structurally similar to testosterone than to trenbolone, differing only by a methyl group.

with exception of one extra double bond in second ring and one in third, but those have no effect on 5-alpha binding.

How do you know this? The entire conformation of the molecule could have an effect on the binding affinity, not just the A-ring.


The conclusion is that unless for some reason Trenbolone has very low affinity to 5-alpha reductase(like EQ and Dianabol do, for example) it should be 5-alpha reduced.

This is certainly not my conclusion.

One more thing, even it gets 5-alpha reduced, doesn't mean that it's safe for hair, comparing to Deca, because being 3 times stronger androgen then Test, it will be reduced to still pretty much strong androgen, wich we can compare to Test, but a way stronger then DHN.

Now you are disagreeing with Stew, because he claims DHN is the 5-alpha reduced metabolite of tren
 
O.K. I'll give it one more shot

I really can't believe that no one is getting my side of the argument. I never claimed that the possibility of trenbolone being 5-alpha reduced does not exist. In fact, I stated above that there exists that possibility. Any 3-keto-4-ene steroid has this possibility. As such, it also has the ability to be 5-beta reduced. It is general phase I A-ring steroid metabolism. But this does not mean that it must happen! Why might it not happen? Something called stereospecific metabolism might explain some of it.

Let's look at some other 3-keto-4-ene steroids. Bolasterone, boldenone (eq) and metandienone (d-bol) all fall into this category. When several doses of these drugs were administered to an individual, exactly 0% of the metabolites detected were 5-alpha reduced, and 100% were 5-beta reduced. That means that, even though they are 3-keto-4-ene steroids, they are not substrates for 5-alpha reductase. So why must trenbolone be 5-alpha reduced?

Again, you guys are providing pure speculation of which no results have been seen in the laboratory. I have at least provided scientific evidence that no 5-alpha metabolite of tren is known to exist.

I urge you to read "Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" by Wilhelm Schanzer and come back with some more convincing arguments. ;)

Dr. Anabolicum Mister, Phd (Molecular Biochemistry) (maybe this will give me some pull :) ).
 
Well, neither in my previous post or my reply to Stew before, I agreed that Tren reduces to DHN, and actually I said, that it's impossible, if you read the whole thread, you see it.
The only thing I agree with Stew is that Tren, like Nandrolone does get reduced by 5-alpha reductase.
Hm, first of all, your saying that Nandrolone is closer to Testosteron then to Trenbolone is absolute nonsense, open any book and look up for yourself, Tren and Nandrolone are very close analogs and Nandrolone is even used in place of Tren for detection studies on Tren.
But, it's not important in our discussion. What is important is that in a first ring, double bounds between 4 and 5 carbons are identical in all three of them, means there's nothing to prevent 5-alpha reductase from reducing Trenbolone.
As for possibility of entire different configuration effecting binding affinity of 5-AR to Tren, I already pointed at it,when I mention effect of 5-AR on EQ and Dbol, and there's no need to repeat it as argument against what I said, just read paying more attention to what you are reading.
My conclusion (I know,certainly not yours, hm...did you mention "close minded" in your previous post?) is that possibility that Tren gets reduced is very high, but we certainly lack enough information on the subject.
 
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Personally, I'm not taking not Stew's not A.Mister's sides. The discussion itself is very interesting for me, because I'm prone to hair loss, and use Finasteride for years, and never Deca.
And,like I explained in one of the posts in this thread, in my last cycle I used Fina, 75mg/day for 12 weeks. While, before, because of use of Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Xandrox and Nizoral my hairloss almost halt, with addition of Fina its suddenly start progressing.
It made me think that Stew may be right.
I doubt that we'll be able to find study on 5-alpha reductase and Tren, because, obviously, nobody cares about cattles hair,haha...lol!
AM, I, certainly hope that you are right in your suspicion that Tren has low affinity to 5-AR , like EQ and Dbol do, cuz I would love to be able to use it in a future cycles.
 
Panerai,

I'm don't know why you think I am coming across as closed minded. I've admitted over and over again that the possibility of a 5AR reduction of tren exists. All I want is for someone else to look at the study that showed no 5AR metabolite of tren to see where I'm coming from. Yes it is only one study, but no one has referenced any other study to disprove it.

Your last statement has me confused. Whether tren has a high or low affinity for 5AR would make no difference to my recommending it as a drug that is easy on the hair. Whatever the reason, I don't believe it is.
 
Well, I have nothing further to say on the issue. I've already proven my point. Thanks, Panerai for looking into the reduction...


Don't use finasteride with deca or tren.




-Stew
 
OK I HAVE AN IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR STEW PREFERABLY,, HE SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER. I'M DOING DECA AT 300 MG A WEEK FOR 8 WEEKS. NOW I'M ALSO PRONE TO HAIRLOSS. I WANT TO USE XANDROX 5% W/AZELAIC ACID, BUT IT WILL BLOCK THE DHN THERFORE CAUSING MORE HAIRLOSS. WHEN WILL IT BE SAFE, LIKE HOW LONG CAN I WAIT FOR AFTER MY CYCLE TO START USING EITHER TOPICAL SPIRONOLCATONE OR XANDROX OR EVEN PROPECIA????? THANKS
 
To my knowlege, there is no actions of 5-alpha reduction within the scalp. It should be fine to use a topical solution.

I would wait a few months after using deca before I started using finasteride PO.


-Stew
 
O.K., Stew, brother...I guess we just don't see eye to eye on hairloss...lol.

If there was no 5-alpha reductase in the scalp, why would they bother putting a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor in Xandrox, a topical formula? Although there is more type I isozyme present than type II (upon which finasteride acts), 5AR definitely has action in the scalp. If azelaic acid works the way it is supposed to, then I wouldn't take it with deca.
 
To my knowlege, 5-alpha reductase blockers are never used on the scalp. THAT is not the same as DHT blockers. DHT has already been reduced by 5-AR and has NO interaction with it. Topical solutions as far as I know, block androgenic activity within the scalp and not reduction within the scalp.



-Stew
 
anyone use nioxin for hairloss? Blocks DHT, so it says, and is just a topical solution applied to the thinning areas.
 
Stew Meat said:
To my knowlege, 5-alpha reductase blockers are never used on the scalp. THAT is not the same as DHT blockers. DHT has already been reduced by 5-AR and has NO interaction with it. Topical solutions as far as I know, block androgenic activity within the scalp and not reduction within the scalp.



-Stew

Azelaic acid is a naturally occurring saturated dicarboxylic acid with the chemical name of 1,7-heptanedicarboxylic acid and a molecular weight of 188.22. Azelaic acid is a dietary component of whole grain cereals and animal products.

The exact mechanism of action of azelaic acid is not known. The antimicrobial action may be attributable to inhibition of microbial cellular protein synthesis. Azelaic acid at high concentrations is bactericidal against Propionibacterium acnes and Staphylococcus epidermis and possesses bacteriostatic properties against a variety of aerobic microorganisms, including Staphylococcus aureus, Escherichia coli, Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Candida albicans. In vitro, azelaic acid acted as a scavenger of oxy radicals and inhibits a variety of oxidoreductive enzymes including 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme responsible for converting testosterone to DHT. Azelaic acid (0.1 to 3.0 mmol/l) has been shown to produce a competitive concentration dependent inhibition of 5-alpha reductase activity in homogenates of human foreskin. Azelaic acid is being studied for potential antimycotic and antiviral properties. The multiple actions of azelaic acid cause a normalization of keratinization and a decrease in the free fatty acid content of skin surface lipids.
 
what in the world does that mean? this nioxin NX3 follicle booster contains Eco-CorrectivesTM; A patent-pending complex that contains naturally occurring essential oils, which remove DHT, excess hormones and pseudo-estrogens (environmental pollutants) from the scalp skin.
 
what about a deca/ dbol cycle?+propecia

Stew Meat said:


Nandralone (active ingredient in Deca) is the worst possible thing you could ever imagine for your hair. This hormone has the MOST androgenic activity in the hair. However, 5-alpha reductase has a very strong affinity towards nandralone. This 5-AR turns nandralone into DHN. DHN is not DHT. DHN has the LOWEST androgenic activity in the scalp. DHN's androgenic activity is concentrated in muscle tissue (not the scalp). So, Deca and nandralone analogs are actually the SAFEST steroids as they will have the LOWEST androgenic activity in the scalp post 5-alpha reduction. If you stop 5-AR from converting nandralone to DHN, you keep Deca as an androgen that concentrates its androgenic activity in the scalp causing extreme hairloss. This is why finasteride will make your hair fall out if you use it in conjunction with Deca. Finasteride prevents Deca from turning into the safe DHN.

what if i am proned to hair loss and do a deca dbol cycle?
Should i take propecia or not? i plan on deca for 10 weeks and dbol for the first 5-6 weeks.
Should i only take the propecia while taking dbol????????
 
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