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GHB precursor 1,4-Butanediol
- Thread starter firstenrgy
- Start date
My references are....
Lehninger (The Godfather of Biochemistry!)
and
NTP (National Toxicology Program)
I'm not sure if your a chemist so I don't know how much of this will make sense......
"GHB is first oxidized to acetoacetate, which is activated with coenzyme A donated from succinyl-CoA, then split by thiolase." Lehninger
Thiolase will cleave that succinyl-CoA into two acetyl-CoAs which enters the citric acid cycle ("Krebs")....
" g-Hydroxybutyric acid is a naturally occurring chemical found in the brain and peripheral tissues which is converted to succinate and processed through the tricarboxylic acid cycle. Although the function of g-hydroxybutyric acid in peripheral tissues is unknown, in the brain and neuronal tissue it is thought to function as a neuromodulator. g-Hydroxybutyric acid readily crosses the blood-brain barrier, and oral, intraperitoneal, or intravenous administration elicits characteristic neuropharmacologic responses. These same responses are observed after administration of 1,4-butanediol." NTP
The correct answer is ......
tricarboxylic acid cycle / Krebs / citric acid cycle (all the same)!
Sorry about giving the answer up so soon....I didn't want to take your lunch money.
Lehninger (The Godfather of Biochemistry!)
and
NTP (National Toxicology Program)
I'm not sure if your a chemist so I don't know how much of this will make sense......
"GHB is first oxidized to acetoacetate, which is activated with coenzyme A donated from succinyl-CoA, then split by thiolase." Lehninger
Thiolase will cleave that succinyl-CoA into two acetyl-CoAs which enters the citric acid cycle ("Krebs")....
" g-Hydroxybutyric acid is a naturally occurring chemical found in the brain and peripheral tissues which is converted to succinate and processed through the tricarboxylic acid cycle. Although the function of g-hydroxybutyric acid in peripheral tissues is unknown, in the brain and neuronal tissue it is thought to function as a neuromodulator. g-Hydroxybutyric acid readily crosses the blood-brain barrier, and oral, intraperitoneal, or intravenous administration elicits characteristic neuropharmacologic responses. These same responses are observed after administration of 1,4-butanediol." NTP
The correct answer is ......
tricarboxylic acid cycle / Krebs / citric acid cycle (all the same)!
Sorry about giving the answer up so soon....I didn't want to take your lunch money.
Well Grainger, we all know that once 1,4bd is converted to GHB it is broken down in the same way, the question is the metabolic pathway that takes it from 1,4bd to GHB and that my friend makes all the difference. I am not a masters degree biochemist, just an ol' country boy trying to make some sense of the state of affairs we find ourselves in here on the boards. I try not to start flame wars, be respectful to others when possible, try to be openminded and give opinions based on my personal experience and on what I believe to be responsible references. This is the information that I was able to find in the first five minutes:
1,4-butanediol, otherwise known as "GHB-Alcohol", is broken down by the same pathway as alcohol, "the alcohol dehydrogenase first converts 1,4-butanediol into the intermediate aldehyde gamma-hydroxybutyraldehyde. This aldehyde then circulates around the body until another liver enzyme, aldehyde dehydrogenase, oxidizes it into GHB"
"Gamma-butyrolactone is an dehydrated form of GHB, normally present in only trivial amounts in aqueous (water) solutions at neutral pH (i.e., in biological fluids). At acidic pH, and in dry environments, the lactone is favored. In aqueous environments, GHB and butyrolactone are in equilibrium with each other, slowly converting back and forth (see Figure B). It may take days for this interconversion to reach equilibrium (i.e., when the rate of lactone hydrolysis into GHB equals the rate of GHB dehydration into lactone)."
GHB(Sodium GHB) is a salt so we can see how that converts to GHB.
So, i summarize, GBL spontaneously hydrolyses to GHB via lactonases(this is me quoting my references), 1,4-BD-enzymatic oxidation by alcohol dehydrogenase to convert to GHB. Note that alcohol dehydrogenase is the same enzyme that breaks down ethyl alcohol. I will list several web sites for references from what I believe to be authoratative sources to reference what I have said since I am not smart enough to think this stuff up myself. I urge everyone to read the references as I think they fairly clearly point out the danger of 1,4-bd compared to the other two.
==============================================
http://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/~mpc/Publications/MPC-newsletters/ToxalertOctober2000.pdf
http://www.ijmt.net/3_1/3_1_1.html
http://ceri.com/ghbalt.htm
http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/1,4-Butanediol_Toxicity.15209.shtml
These are just afew of the hundreds of references available to anyone interested enough to look for them
1,4-butanediol, otherwise known as "GHB-Alcohol", is broken down by the same pathway as alcohol, "the alcohol dehydrogenase first converts 1,4-butanediol into the intermediate aldehyde gamma-hydroxybutyraldehyde. This aldehyde then circulates around the body until another liver enzyme, aldehyde dehydrogenase, oxidizes it into GHB"
"Gamma-butyrolactone is an dehydrated form of GHB, normally present in only trivial amounts in aqueous (water) solutions at neutral pH (i.e., in biological fluids). At acidic pH, and in dry environments, the lactone is favored. In aqueous environments, GHB and butyrolactone are in equilibrium with each other, slowly converting back and forth (see Figure B). It may take days for this interconversion to reach equilibrium (i.e., when the rate of lactone hydrolysis into GHB equals the rate of GHB dehydration into lactone)."
GHB(Sodium GHB) is a salt so we can see how that converts to GHB.
So, i summarize, GBL spontaneously hydrolyses to GHB via lactonases(this is me quoting my references), 1,4-BD-enzymatic oxidation by alcohol dehydrogenase to convert to GHB. Note that alcohol dehydrogenase is the same enzyme that breaks down ethyl alcohol. I will list several web sites for references from what I believe to be authoratative sources to reference what I have said since I am not smart enough to think this stuff up myself. I urge everyone to read the references as I think they fairly clearly point out the danger of 1,4-bd compared to the other two.
==============================================
http://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/~mpc/Publications/MPC-newsletters/ToxalertOctober2000.pdf
http://www.ijmt.net/3_1/3_1_1.html
http://ceri.com/ghbalt.htm
http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/1,4-Butanediol_Toxicity.15209.shtml
These are just afew of the hundreds of references available to anyone interested enough to look for them
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Ok heres my take. Im getting ready to do a show in 3 weeks and have been using 1,4 every night for the last 9 weeks. I use it because i train at 5 am and i need something i can take to put me to sleep at 8:30 pm and allow me to wake up and not feel groggy or lethargic. I have access to both ambiem and xanax but both make me feel too groggy. I like most have to take 2 doses. 31/2 hours is max sleep time for me and that is taking an initial dose of 5ml. my second dose is usually 3ml. I have done alot of research on 1,4 and i havent found any info that says it could be harsh on the liver. It does say that it could be stressfull to the kidneys and it does make you piss like a wild dog. But I piss atleast 3 times a night anyway so what the hell. I do think that the stuff is probably toxic in some way or another and plan on cutting it out for the most part after my show. ( or get some real ghb) But for now, It does what i need it to do.
TraxZBT
New member
Daeo said:
Not true at all. The BEST GHB I've ever had(taste and effectiveness), is the one I currently use. And it has virtually no taste. It's very mild. And it fucks me up bigtimeIf you don't believe me just ask Fonz and Stew meat...
ahhh charcoal processed... makes it almost tastelesss..
Did you read my post?
1,4-bdo is converted to ghb by the same metabolic pathway in the liver as alcohol is metabolized. Is alcohol liver toxic? I had a personal experience with bdo since I have access to it by the 55gallon drum! After goingoff cycle for 4 weeks I had a physical and my liver enzymes were high! Damn, I cut out everything even close to liver toxic including clomid, pain killers, everything! Had a retest, my enzymes were still high! I wracked my brain for what was going on, one mornign I woke up with a slight 1,4 hangover and thought that it felt a lot like an alcohol hangover! Bingo, I had been doing bdo every night. Cut out the bdo and magically the enzymes came down to normal range. This caused me to research the pathways accociated with the carious ghb analogues and what I discovered explained what had happened, 1,4-bdo is processed by the liver using the same enzyme as alcohol. Is it toxic in other ways? I am not sure. I see folks reporting that they use 99.7 % pure bdo, I would damn sure want the COA on that find out what the other .03% is, that's a lot of impurities floating around.
1,4-bdo is converted to ghb by the same metabolic pathway in the liver as alcohol is metabolized. Is alcohol liver toxic? I had a personal experience with bdo since I have access to it by the 55gallon drum! After goingoff cycle for 4 weeks I had a physical and my liver enzymes were high! Damn, I cut out everything even close to liver toxic including clomid, pain killers, everything! Had a retest, my enzymes were still high! I wracked my brain for what was going on, one mornign I woke up with a slight 1,4 hangover and thought that it felt a lot like an alcohol hangover! Bingo, I had been doing bdo every night. Cut out the bdo and magically the enzymes came down to normal range. This caused me to research the pathways accociated with the carious ghb analogues and what I discovered explained what had happened, 1,4-bdo is processed by the liver using the same enzyme as alcohol. Is it toxic in other ways? I am not sure. I see folks reporting that they use 99.7 % pure bdo, I would damn sure want the COA on that find out what the other .03% is, that's a lot of impurities floating around.
You can actually see little specks of charcoal in some batches. GHB that tastes good. It's almost too good to be true, but it is...
