Femara Questions

[VeteranNewbie88]

Could someone please give me a quick rundown on the similarity between Femara and Arimidex? Which is better to use and at what dose during a Test Prop/Tren cycle? I have tried searching, but I am not Plat. so unfortunately research nowadays on Elite is not what it used to be....thank you in advance to all who can help me!!

PS _ I posted this on the PCT board..but in like10 hrs, I've only gotten 2 views....so...

 

[landser]

Arimidex is anastrozole, and Femara, is letrozole. Both are aromatase inhibitors. Arimidex is commonly dosed at 1mg, and femara at 2.5mg. They are both potent, but the benefit of femara over arimidex is that it does not raise your bad cholesterol, which is important when juicing for long periods.

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

Arimidex is anastrozole, and Femara, is letrozole. Both are aromatase inhibitors. Arimidex is commonly dosed at 1mg, and femara at 2.5mg. They are both potent, but the benefit of femara over arimidex is that it does not raise your bad cholesterol, which is important when juicing for long periods.

Thanks Landser...much appreciated...any reason at all to use arimidex over Femara?? Sounds like Femara is superior....when you say 2.5 mg, is that 2.5mg a day throughout the cycle? Thanks again...

 

[einstein1905]

Actually adex and letro have the same effects on LDL and HDL....there rae a few anomaly studies out there that will suggest otherwise, but the consensus trend is that they have the same effects, which makes perfect sense, since they do the exact same thing. The only difference is a slight difference in binding affinity to aromatase. they are both clas II AIs....they suppress systemic estrogen to functionally similar levels ( a few% difference). it really doesn't matter which you use, as you'll dose according to the level of estrogen suppression you want anyway. Always use nolva with an AI anyway (10-20mg/day) both to counter the lowered HDL due to AI use and also to prevent estrogenic activity at the breast. The AI is used at low doses merely to slightly suppress estrogen. estrogen is very anabolic, so suppressing it just enough to prevent excessive bloat and hypertension is all you want.....ideally, you maintain as high of estrogen levels as possible w/o sides. using nolv aallows you to maintain much higher systemic estrogen levels w/o sides.

 

[VictorBR]

Forget about both . Arimidex fucks up your lipid profiles and femara is so strong that will kill your mojo .

Use AROMASIN , it is the best anti - e available.


Victor

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

Damn...I hate it when something fucks with my Mojo....anyway..thanks guys..and BUMP for more opinions ^

 

[IwouldSlamU]

do not use femara at 2.5mg a day!!!!! 1.25 EOD or E3D

 

[view]

Forget about both . Arimidex fucks up your lipid profiles and femara is so strong that will kill your mojo .

Use AROMASIN , it is the best anti - e available.


Victor

True, but aromasin isn't widely availible yet and is very expensive.

 

[Triple J]

estrogen is a very individual issue that each user needs to learn how to address to suit his own needs ... one's conversion of T to E will vary based on age, bodyfat%, genetics, etc. - personally i hate any bloat and prefer to run an anti-a on any T cycle. I try to take as little ant-a as possible to minimize bloat. once bloat is controlled, i find there is no need for further protection. i also believe nolva would be counter-productive since it may act to raise SHBG levels, and I believe this would be counter-productive. if you believe as i do, that free T is important, you will want to keep your e levels in line, too since estrogen directly acts to increase levels of SHBG. also i believe the danger to lipid levels from moderate usage of anti-a's is somewhat exaggerated. the harm to lipid values, on the typical AAS cycle, is more directly caused by the anabolics (just about anything other than T). granted nolvadex can probably help with this lipid situation somewhat, but the issue is probably best addressed in other ways: diet and nutritional supplements.

comparing adex and femara, most people who have used both, report femara to be considerably stronger in effect and I agree with this. I have read this is because femara penetrates the adipose cells better thus inhibiting their aromatase activity better than adex. some report that femara is too strong which can have ill effects on sex drive - I believe this issue is just a matter of finding the right dosage level. Since adex and femara are similiary priced, and femara is stronger and thus can be effective in doses as low as .5mg eod, I find that it is slightly more cost effective to run femara.

 

[manny78]

If aromasin is available to you, then there's no reason to keep using arimidex.

 

[kbrkbr]

femara is so strong that will kill your mojo .
Victor

What do you mean by that? Sorry, I'm an old fart.

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

What do you mean by that? Sorry, I'm an old fart.

He means it will kill your sex drive my friend....Triple J, thanks for the input....unfortunately, I have no idea where to find Aromasin, I have also been searching in vain for Dostinex which is another story...anyway, thanks for all the inout guys...I believe I will try Femera at 1mg every other day....adjusting this dosage depending on how I react...

 

[kbrkbr]

He means it will kill your sex drive my friend....Triple J, thanks for the input....unfortunately, I have no idea where to find Aromasin, I have also been searching in vain for Dostinex which is another story...anyway, thanks for all the inout guys...I believe I will try Femera at 1mg every other day....adjusting this dosage depending on how I react...

All these years in the game and I never knew femera could hurt your libido. I wonder why it does this.

Have you tried mastersmarketing for your dostinex?

 

[einstein1905]

estrogen is a very individual issue that each user needs to learn how to address to suit his own needs ... one's conversion of T to E will vary based on age, bodyfat%, genetics, etc. - personally i hate any bloat and prefer to run an anti-a on any T cycle. I try to take as little ant-a as possible to minimize bloat. once bloat is controlled, i find there is no need for further protection. i also believe nolva would be counter-productive since it may act to raise SHBG levels, and I believe this would be counter-productive. if you believe as i do, that free T is important, you will want to keep your e levels in line, too since estrogen directly acts to increase levels of SHBG. also i believe the danger to lipid levels from moderate usage of anti-a's is somewhat exaggerated. the harm to lipid values, on the typical AAS cycle, is more directly caused by the anabolics (just about anything other than T). granted nolvadex can probably help with this lipid situation somewhat, but the issue is probably best addressed in other ways: diet and nutritional supplements.

Nolva doesn't reaise SHBG in any study I've ever seen. i do agree that using JUST enough of an AI to prevent excessive bloat/hypertension is perfect. however, estrogen is incredibly anabolic, so suppressing estrogen beyond preventing excessive bloat is counterproductive. That's why nolva allows one to maintain a supraphysiological estrogen level w/o sides.
Also, i rely on androgens themselves to lower SHBG. I'll always add in proviron in th elatter part of a cycle to lower SHBG levels and raise the % of bioavailable AAS.


Another thing....using exemestane alone is the same theory as overdoing a class II AI.....you're suppressing estrogen too much.....why not reap the benefits of estrogen?

Nolva both raises HDL and lowers LDL. There's no good reason not to use it IMO'.

comparing adex and femara, most people who have used both, report femara to be considerably stronger in effect and I agree with this. I have read this is because femara penetrates the adipose cells better thus inhibiting their aromatase activity better than adex. some report that femara is too strong which can have ill effects on sex drive - I believe this issue is just a matter of finding the right dosage level. Since adex and femara are similiary priced, and femara is stronger and thus can be effective in doses as low as .5mg eod, I find that it is slightly more cost effective to run femara.

 

[Triple J]

FYI I refer you to pubmed, seach on nolvadex SHBG:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10810443
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11430992

also there are studies indicating nolvadex decreases IGF1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11844826
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10848871

I do not like to over-rely on the studies, experience is just as important, perhaps more so, as no studies are performed on AAS taking athletes. Since I have experienced the downside of estrogenic sides I prefer to use what I consider to be the more active management approach offered by anti-a's.

 

[einstein1905]

FYI I refer you to pubmed, seach on nolvadex SHBG:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10810443
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11430992

also there are studies indicating nolvadex decreases IGF1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11844826
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10848871

I do not like to over-rely on the studies, experience is just as important, perhaps more so, as no studies are performed on AAS taking athletes. Since I have experienced the downside of estrogenic sides I prefer to use what I consider to be the more active management approach offered by anti-a's.

One of the two articles regarding SHBG is not available online in full text, but it states that SHBG levels remained w/in normal ranges but were "significantly elevated", which usually implies that it was a minor increas......statistically significant changes are alluded to in terms of "significant change" as opposed to the actual % change when that change isn't a large value. The 2nd study was in vitro but did cause a practically signifiacnt rise in SHBG of ~50%. The dose of tamoxifen used was likely a dose equivalent to therapeutic doses, so that's legit. One thing to counter this is that, although estrogens do increase SHBG (and apparently synthetic estrogens too), androgens lower SHBG levels, so AAS users have the advantage of supraphysiological androgen levels as well.....potentially to fully counter the SHBG effects by nolva and then some.


As for the IGF-1 implications, they refer to serum IGF-1 levels, which are relatively unimportant to us IMO. It's the intramuscular synthesis of IGF-1 (IGF-1Ea) that's important to us. I have seen the study that implicates tamoxifen acting at the level of the pituitary on GH release, but most studies are also done in breast cancer patients, people who have abnormally high IGF-1 synthesis in mammary fat pads, which is a phenotypical characteristic of breast cancer.....since tamoxifen has a high affinity for breast ERs, it's very likely that a good deal of the reduce3d serum IGF-1 also results from decreased IGF-1 synthesis in mammary fat pads and other localized stromal cells.


I do agree with you that the pros of tamoxifen outweigh the cons, especially considering our typical androgen levels, and I also use exo GH and IGF-1, so that issue is null and void for me.

 

[Smokescreen]

Dostinex here's 2 sites.http://www.buy-dostinex.com/buy-dostinex/Buy_Dostinex_Cabergoline_Cabaser.asp
http://www.shoprxonline.com/dostinex/

And Femera http://www.pumpnpose.com/

I've always used Adex and liked the results. Loved femera results way better though. Except for the fact that it killed my sexual desires and it made my bones and joints ache. I'm now using Aromasin. Seems to work ok. Not great but ok. At least my joints don't hurt. And now I do desire sex. Still up in arms between Adex and Aromasin though.

 

[boogersnax]

Anytime you reduce the level of total estrogen you are going to affect cholesterol levels.

PEACE

 

[einstein1905]

Anytime you reduce the level of total estrogen you are going to affect cholesterol levels.

PEACE

Thank you....I completely agree......the two studies showing aromasin not affecting HDL will be anomalies in the grand scheme of things, once more studies are done. Lowering systemic estrogen lowers HDL....that's it.

 

[nbk]

I read that if I take nolvadex while on femara, the amount of femara in my system will drop somewhat? What gives

 

[VictorBR]

I read that if I take nolvadex while on femara, the amount of femara in my system will drop somewhat? What gives

>> why use nolvadex with femara in the first place ?




Victor

 

[OXANDRIN]

>> why use nolvadex with femara in the first place ?




Victor

because it acts as a weak estrogen eliminating some of the sides of letrozole....btw clomid works better

 

[Smokescreen]

?

 

[VictorBR]

because it acts as a weak estrogen eliminating some of the sides of letrozole....btw clomid works better

>> what sides are you referring to and what exactly would cause them ?



Victor

 

[OXANDRIN]

>> what sides are you referring to and what exactly would cause them ?



Victor

clomid acts as a weak estrogen so when letrozole blocks the conversion of estrogens in the body by inihibiting aromatase in fat cells you will still have some clomiphene floating around acting as a much needed estrogen....it helps with maintaining cholesterol, libido, etc.

 

[Smokescreen]

That doesnt make sense to me. Your adding letro to eliminate estro. But then you add estro because you need it? Then why try to lower it or eliminate it in the first place?

 

[OXANDRIN]

That doesnt make sense to me. Your adding letro to eliminate estro. But then you add estro because you need it? Then why try to lower it or eliminate it in the first place?

clomid isn't strong enough to cause estrogenic side effects and in the body acts as an anti-estrogen.

Carth,

you never want to eliminate estrogen just keep it under control. too much estrogen is just as bad as too little

 

[Triple J]

i believe it is correct that nolva + femara result in less effective femara in your system

your best bet is just to take the minimum amount of ai (ie femara) to keep estrogen in a physiological range (maybe still high-normal) where estrogen sides are not a problem for you. it is not desirable to keep estrogen extremely low, just manage it such that you avoid the primary negative effects (gyno, bloat, BP)

 

[VictorBR]

Yep eliminating ALL the estrogen is not good for you , we need a lil estrogen to maintain libido etc... that is why femara kill your mojo , it is so strong that it completly eliminate all of your estrogen leaving you with ZERO , thus giving you a limp dick

So , oxandrin you are basically saying that by adding nolva or clomid you will INCRESE your estrogen a bit ? And as a consequence you would not have the sides of TOO LOW estrogen ?

Ok , but does clomid and nolva really works as an ESTROGEN ? I always heard they were anti-estrogen drugs . I am using nolva rigth now to get rid of my gyno and now I am gyno free , god bless the nolva .

So , how can clomid and nolva helps RAISES the estrogen in your body if they are actually anti-estrogen drugs ?

And also , all this could be avoided if you just LOWER the femara dose so it won't kill all of your estrogen . Or better yet , just use aromasin instead it


Victor

 

[Smokescreen]

I don't use Femera anymore because of that same problem. My joints hurt and I had a limp bizkit! Now I use Aromasin and all is good!

 

[Smokescreen]

Something boggles me though. I just looked at the Anaboics 2004 book. It says that actually Aromasin lowers estrogen the most out of all of them. It lowers estro better than Femera and Adex!!! So how is it that Femera supposedly lowers estro the most when the book clearly says it is Aromasin that does this? Hmmmmmm

 

[VeteranNewbie88]

Interesting Discussion guys...BUMP^

 

[VictorBR]

Something boggles me though. I just looked at the Anaboics 2004 book. It says that actually Aromasin lowers estrogen the most out of all of them. It lowers estro better than Femera and Adex!!! So how is it that Femera supposedly lowers estro the most when the book clearly says it is Aromasin that does this? Hmmmmmm

Don't believe everything you read .



Victor

 

[Triple J]

don't believe everything you read, those results may be based on some research study on women with breast cancer or some other oddball group that does not really compare with what we represent

now here is what you need to understand, these drugs are tissue-specific. nolva and clomid are synthetic estrogens. in certain target tissues they lock onto the estrogen receptor and effectively block the signal. in other tissues they will act as an estrogen (in the liver, having an estrogen-like influence on lipid levels). it is believed that the ai's also have some variance to local tissue thus explaining why some people find one or the other products better or worse for them. most users who have tried different ai's report femara is the strongest - some report it is too strong. this should be a matter of titrating the dose but it is possible for some people it is just not a good choice (due to a combination of genetic predisposition and tissue specificity)

 

[nbk]

bump, the fact that nolva would interact reducing the effectiveness of femara is note worthy for anyone thinking on using it.

I preffer nolva over clomid, because the last one seems to fuck up my head!

nbk

 

[Smokescreen]

So guys...how do all of you get all of this info on gear? I get mine from these books. But you guys and everybody else on this board say different things about these drugs. Where do you get this info from? I'm obviously reading fucked up shit! Please, direct me in the right path. Knowledge is so precious to me!