Example of how Bibllical History is contrived (made up)

[Lestat]

People would beleive the cow jumped over the moon if they were told from birth.
Read 'Might is Right'...It exposes religion(especially Christianity) for what it really is, slave dogma. Religion turns Men into slaves/half-lings with no sap.

Why even debate religion, when all religions are based on myth. Religion does not have a leg to stand on.

great post

 

[[email protected]]

I've read the bible more than once, and certain passages hundreds of times. Who are you to tell me what I have and have not read?

The term reading implies even a small amount of attempt at comprehension.

I guess I should have made my statement:

"You have not read the Bible and tried to honestly comprehend it in context."


I have a 5 year old.

My child, without any guidance or information to anything spiritual picked up a Bible and read a few verses to understand it for what it said.

Later, she can rationalize it against other schools of thought. -But her ability to read it for what it says exists within her limit of vocabulary.



There is no excuse for adults.

 

[Lestat]

ok, I looked it up in my macedonian translation of the Orthodox Bible.





ok, in the "Story of David and Goliath" 1 Sam 17 the name of Goliath is mentioned only once, the rest of the time he is reffered to as the philistine. In 2 Sam 21.19, it does say that there was a battle in Get and thjat Elhanan, the son of Ariorgima from Betheheem killed the Goliath Gittite. There is no mention of the word "brother". Its said - And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.




this is the same




the same



same again

so basically your copy of the Bible doesn't say that David killed Goliath.

yet how many people teach that story to their children?

 

[Frisky]

for all of you morons... the bible is an interpretation... which means ............... Everyone will interprte it differnt than the next.

Damn, is that so hard to understand?

 

[krishna]

You stated you were pretty sure you have read it more than I and implied that you knew more about it because of that.

My point that you lose is because if you knew about it, you would know more than 1/3 of it is prophecy, and much of which modern scientific and historical experts AGREE is fact. They discover MORE of it is fact every day. Taken at that alone, you do not need to be a scholar to know the Bible is what it claims.

When you argue against that point, it shows you have not done very much investigating at all, or you have chosen to deny it. In either case, that is not a position of knowledge.



Well, it certainly isn't fulfilling the role it is supposed to when you deny its validity.



Then maybe you can explain the Hadith which must be taken with the Koran to understand the context. Maybe you can also explain the Surahs. Do we need to go into that?

I love being an ignorant idiot.

Show me how you can enlighten me when no Jew is allowed into islam's capital: Saudi Arabia. Show me why they behead someone for carrying a Bible in most muslim countries.

Show me how stupid I am.



Oh, I see. And when it says to kill all infidels, as that is the only way of assurance into paradise, (because even Muhammad's successor said that if he did eveything right, he didn't even have assurance because Muhammad might kick him out of paradise), then we assume "infidels" to be warriors? "Infidels" is further defined as all those who do not submit in worshipping Allah. -A PAGAN MOON GOD.



Really? And where are your numbers?

-And when "Kill by the sword" is the entire theme of islam? -And history proves it. If you want to condemn Christianity for bloodshed, you must shift that to catholicism and the persecution of Jews under Hitler whom they put in power.



No, that is called CATHOLICISM.

Biblical Christianity is not catholicism. Catholicism says MEN are God's authority, Biblical Christianity says Jesus is God's authority.

One follows men and the other follows the Bible. Hence, one is a cult and the other is not. -By definition.



Spoken like a muslim.

Christianity is not a "power". -It is merely a personal relationship with God (Yahweh) and a philosophy of loving your neighbor.

Islam, by contrast, is about serving a pagan moon god by ritual to try to enter heaven, killing all neighbors who do not also do the same as COMMANDED.



Laughable.

Christianity was forced on the people? Ummmm.....how does one prove they worship Jesus Christ?

They CANT. All they can do is worhip MEN who follow Jesus, as THERE IS NO COMMANDED RITUALS to follow Jesus, and therefore be a Christian.

Catholicism is another matter. Like muslims, they do rituals all over the place.



Yeah.

Ok.

I am stupid and you know all. I think we made that clear.

Dude, catholocism is a christian religion; it is the beginning of christianity along with eastern orthodox. I don't disagree that a lot of muslims are extremists, but that's not what the koran teaches. If they were to read the koran with love instead of hate, they would not be so dillusioned to its message. I know of biblical prophecy, and it can be interpreted many different ways. The odds are that eventually something will happen that will resemble a prophecy, and then one can say, "See, it was true!" It's just a matter of time and odds before someone can say a prophecy has been fulfilled. Do you know how many times religious scholars have tried to interpret the second coming of christ through prophecy. Oh, what a bummer, he didn't show on any of those occasions. Oh wait, maybe he did when he came back and talked to Joseph Smith who founded the mormon religion??? Like I said, prophecy is a matter of time, odds, and interpretation. Just because you interpret it to mean one thing doesn't mean it's the truth. Anyone with any wisdom at all can see this. Show me your prophecies that you speak of and I guarontee that I will be able to come up with a valid logical counter-argument disproving your beloved theories. If I said the cubs were going to win the world series, odds are that it would happen eventually, and then maybe I could go down in history as a great prophet

 

[Lestat]

I am 2 seconds away from sinning... I'll repent though.

there lessy .... ya happy?

sodomy?

 

[theprofessor]

lol. bro you'll be damned? Why do you believe that David Killed goliath? for all we know it could be a myth, like the sword in the stone, or rapunzel letting someone climb up her hair to save her. The bible is full of allergories and parables right? Couldn't that story just be one of them?
What evidence do you have that David actually killed goliath? a few verses in a REALLY old book, the source and authors of which cannot be fully comfirmed? Or are you one of those types that just has to hear something enough and then you start believing?

some people may say it is all coincidence... but i have seen the hand of God at work...
the Bible prophecy proves itself...

 

[theprofessor]

Dude, catholocism is a christian religion; it is the beginning of christianity along with eastern orthodox. I don't disagree that a lot of muslims are extremists, but that's not what the koran teaches. If they were to read the koran with love instead of hate, they would not be so dillusioned to its message. I know of biblical prophecy, and it can be interpreted many different ways. The odds are that eventually something will happen that will resemble a prophecy, and then one can say, "See, it was true!" It's just a matter of time and odds before someone can say a prophecy has been fulfilled. Do you know how many times religious scholars have tried to interpret the second coming of christ through prophecy. Oh, what a bummer, he didn't show on any of those occasions. Oh wait, maybe he did when he came back and talked to Joseph Smith who founded the mormon religion??? Like I said, prophecy is a matter of time, odds, and interpretation. Just because you interpret it to mean one thing doesn't mean it's the truth. Anyone with any wisdom at all can see this. Show me your prophecies that you speak of and I guarontee that I will be able to come up with a valid logical counter-argument disproving your beloved theories. If I said the cubs were going to win the world series, odds are that it would happen eventually, and then maybe I could go down in history as a great prophet

its not the mere fact that prophecy has come true... it is the sheer number of prophecy that ALL came to be...
and we do know the old testament came before the new testament...

 

[Frisky]

sodomy?

are you coming to visit?

 

[Lestat]

The term reading implies even a small amount of attempt at comprehension.

I guess I should have made my statement:

"You have not read the Bible and tried to honestly comprehend it in context."


I have a 5 year old.

My child, without any guidance or information to anything spiritual picked up a Bible and read a few verses to understand it for what it said.

Later, she can rationalize it against other schools of thought. -But her ability to read it for what it says exists within her limit of vocabulary.



There is no excuse for adults.

I read it as a 5 year old, and read it as an adolescent, and then one last time in my early 20s.

Was hoping that it would somehow make sense or enlighten me, but reading it I found myself imagining the people who wrote it, their motives, their place in life at the time, and how different it must be now a couple of thousand years later and translated into different languages.

I have no doubt that jesus christ was a charismatic and influential man, just like Joseph Smith was, I would have loved to been able to meet either of them.

But I have no reason to believe that either person was more than an ordinary man.

 

[Lestat]

some people may say it is all coincidence... but i have seen the hand of God at work...
the Bible prophecy proves itself...

how have you seen the hand of God at work

more importantly, please explain how you know it was the god from the Christian faith as opposed to one of the thousands of other gods that have been contrived over the years.

 

[Lestat]

are you coming to visit?

hell yeah!! I'll even pray for forgiveness with you afterwards.

 

[[email protected]]

Dude, catholocism is a christian religion; it is the beginning of christianity along with eastern orthodox.

1. It is not a Chriatian religion- IT IS A CULT.

A Christian religion is one that submits to Christ and looks only to Him in the inclusion of the Holy Spirit and the Father as savior.

As such, there is no allowance for praying to anyone else (the dead), claiming a higher authority (mary) or insisting that men are replacing Jesus on earth (popes).

Therefore, catholicism is not a religion of Christianity. -It is simply A CULT.

Eastern Orthodox is the same.

It merely is in seperate divisional but same doctrinal position with catholicism and STILL SUBMITS ALL AUTHORITY TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC POPE.

Christianity never started there. It started the day Jesus Christ was born.

I don't disagree that a lot of muslims are extremists, but that's not what the koran teaches.

What is an extremist?

I love how muslims do this.

An extremist is one who takes things to an extreme. A fundamentalist (which all the anti-christian crowd like to call Christians) is one who belives in the solid foundational doctrine of the faith.

The Koran teaches, as its FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF that all must sumbmit to allah. You cannot deny that.

The Koran teaches ALL WHO DO NOT SUBMIT ARE INFIDELS. You cannot deny that.

The Koran and Hadith are only to be understood with each other on equal level in context and WITH each other. You cannot deny that.

The Hadith says clearly that the ONLY ASSURED WAY INTO PARADISE is to die a martyr. You cannot deny that.

Those are islamic fundamentals that cannot be denied.

Christian fundamentals are illustrated by the 10 Commandments as Jesus spent so much time re-enforcing we must do out of love and submission to Him. It is outward expression of our faith and is the basis of how we are to treat ALL PEOPLE not jsut believers. We are to LOVE EACH OTHER, not kill to enter heaven. No rituals, or anything required.

So, don't BS me with your false propaganda.

We can post your koran and hadith verses too if need be.

-And, yes, I also know it is ok for a muslim to lie to infidels, so you can rest assured I know a bit about that too.

If they were to read the koran with love instead of hate, they would not be so dillusioned to its message.

When you read something IN CONTEXT, it doesn't matter your emotion. The text says what it says.

I know of biblical prophecy, and it can be interpreted many different ways.

Then, you do NOT know Biblical prophecy. When it says in 4000 years BC that the earth hangs in space on nothing, and is a sphere, how many ways do you think you can take that?

The odds are that eventually something will happen that will resemble a prophecy, and then one can say, "See, it was true!" It's just a matter of time and odds before someone can say a prophecy has been fulfilled.

Time and odds. -With over 100 SPECIFIC prophecies including the exact circumstances Jesus was to walk the earth, how does one set themselves up TO BE BORN AT THE RIGHT TIME IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND FULFILL ALL THE PROPHECIES?

Do you know how many times religious scholars have tried to interpret the second coming of christ through prophecy. Oh, what a bummer, he didn't show on any of those occasions. Oh wait, maybe he did when he came back and talked to Joseph Smith who founded the mormon religion???

Religious "scholars" are not Biblical experts. The Bible clearly states nobody shall know the day of His return.

I like how you quoted another cult though. Mormons decided to follow a manmade religion which supposedly superceeds the Bible. -Given by a being of light. The Bible declares satan as representing himself as a being of light and that no new prophets would come after Jesus as He was the final Word of God.

But mormons like to ignore those things.

Like I said, prophecy is a matter of time, odds, and interpretation. Just because you interpret it to mean one thing doesn't mean it's the truth. Anyone with any wisdom at all can see this.

Time odds and interpretation DOES ring true if it is not DIVINE in origin as the Bible proves its self to be. -Again, as my post listing scientific prophecies illustrates.

Show me your prophecies that you speak of and I guarontee that I will be able to come up with a valid logical counter-argument disproving your beloved theories. If I said the cubs were going to win the world series, odds are that it would happen eventually, and then maybe I could go down in history as a great prophet

Well, I have done that 2 times already, so you can go find it on your own.

 

[krishna]

its not the mere fact that prophecy has come true... it is the sheer number of prophecy that ALL came to be...
and we do know the old testament came before the new testament...

For example? It's false to say any prophecy has come true unless you are referring to an interpretation (basically an opinion). What you said is not inconsistent with my descriptions of prophecy. Eventually, most prophecy will come true through someone or other's interpretation. As soon as the cubs win the world series, I'll be a great prophet too. And for the second coming of christ??? Scholars have used bible prophecy to predict when he will come, and have been wrong on EVERY occasion, unless throuh an interpretation such as visiting Joseph Smith. So no, not "ALL" prophecy has come true. I'm waiting for some examples vigilant one.

 

[theprofessor]

how have you seen the hand of God at work

more importantly, please explain how you know it was the god from the Christian faith as opposed to one of the thousands of other gods that have been contrived over the years.

you have legitamate questions and concerns... and that is ok...
as no matter how i witness to you my interactions with God... you can only take it as that... not as God working in your life... as your saviour... but just a story i told you....
how do i know what God it is... because i only pray to one of them...

 

[krishna]

1. It is not a Chriatian religion- IT IS A CULT.

A Christian religion is one that submits to Christ and looks only to Him in the inclusion of the Holy Spirit and the Father as savior.

As such, there is no allowance for praying to anyone else (the dead), claiming a higher authority (mary) or insisting that men are replacing Jesus on earth (popes).

Therefore, catholicism is not a religion of Christianity. -It is simply A CULT.

Eastern Orthodox is the same.

It merely is in seperate divisional but same doctrinal position with catholicism and STILL SUBMITS ALL AUTHORITY TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC POPE.

Christianity never started there. It started the day Jesus Christ was born.



What is an extremist?

I love how muslims do this.

An extremist is one who takes things to an extreme. A fundamentalist (which all the anti-christian crowd like to call Christians) is one who belives in the solid foundational doctrine of the faith.

The Koran teaches, as its FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF that all must sumbmit to allah. You cannot deny that.

The Koran teaches ALL WHO DO NOT SUBMIT ARE INFIDELS. You cannot deny that.

The Koran and Hadith are only to be understood with each other on equal level in context and WITH each other. You cannot deny that.

The Hadith says clearly that the ONLY ASSURED WAY INTO PARADISE is to die a martyr. You cannot deny that.

Those are islamic fundamentals that cannot be denied.

Christian fundamentals are illustrated by the 10 Commandments as Jesus spent so much time re-enforcing we must do out of love and submission to Him. It is outward expression of our faith and is the basis of how we are to treat ALL PEOPLE not jsut believers. We are to LOVE EACH OTHER, not kill to enter heaven. No rituals, or anything required.

So, don't BS me with your false propaganda.

We can post your koran and hadith verses too if need be.

-And, yes, I also know it is ok for a muslim to lie to infidels, so you can rest assured I know a bit about that too.



When you read something IN CONTEXT, it doesn't matter your emotion. The text says what it says.



Then, you do NOT know Biblical prophecy. When it says in 4000 years BC that the earth hangs in space on nothing, and is a sphere, how many ways do you think you can take that?



Time and odds. -With over 100 SPECIFIC prophecies including the exact circumstances Jesus was to walk the earth, how does one set themselves up TO BE BORN AT THE RIGHT TIME IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND FULFILL ALL THE PROPHECIES?



Religious "scholars" are not Biblical experts. The Bible clearly states nobody shall know the day of His return.

I like how you quoted another cult though. Mormons decided to follow a manmade religion which supposedly superceeds the Bible. -Given by a being of light. The Bible declares satan as representing himself as a being of light and that no new prophets would come after Jesus as He was the final Word of God.

But mormons like to ignore those things.



Time odds and interpretation DOES ring true if it is not DIVINE in origin as the Bible proves its self to be. -Again, as my post listing scientific prophecies illustrates.



Well, I have done that 2 times already, so you can go find it on your own.

Wow, you've very adament about your close-mindedness. It's clear to me that no matter what anyone says, you will find a way to spew your ignorant opinion all over it. Your post is so wrong in so many ways that I wouldn't even know where to begin addressing it. How bout this? I, the non-christian, will lay it to rest and choose not to hate or argue anymore. Figures the non-christian would be the one choosing peace instead of the christian. Good luck my friend.

 

[theprofessor]

For example? It's false to say any prophecy has come true unless you are referring to an interpretation (basically an opinion). What you said is not inconsistent with my descriptions of prophecy. Eventually, most prophecy will come true through someone or other's interpretation. As soon as the cubs win the world series, I'll be a great prophet too. And for the second coming of christ??? Scholars have used bible prophecy to predict when he will come, and have been wrong on EVERY occasion, unless throuh an interpretation such as visiting Joseph Smith. So no, not "ALL" prophecy has come true. I'm waiting for some examples vigilant one.

do a search on bible prophecy if you need to know that bad... you know as well as i do you will find hours of reading...

 

[Lestat]

you have legitamate questions and concerns... and that is ok...
as no matter how i witness to you my interactions with God... you can only take it as that... not as God working in your life... as your saviour... but just a story i told you....
how do i know what God it is... because i only pray to one of them...

so by that logic, had you have been praying to a different god, then that one would be the true one?

 

[[email protected]]

Lestat:

It is simple.

Work BACKWARD. When you have science proving what the Bible has said when there is no way people of the era could fake it, and the event was miraculous, that is significant.

You can then ask yourself HOW?

When no other religious text can offer the same thing, only the Bible stands out as divine. -REGARDLESS OF OPINION OR DESIRE OF THE READER.

You are then only left with a few basic questions:

1. Which version is right.
2. HOW is it right.
3. HOW MUCH IS RIGHT.
4. What does it mean to me.

The Bible claims it is the divine inerrant word of God. If that is true, it either is or isn't. -No room for middle ground. It is either all right or all wrong.

If it is all right, that has to be becasue the miracles prove it isn't ALL wrong, then it must be looked at as flawless. The only place for error is translation by men. Original Greek and Hebrew fixes that issue.

All that is left is HOW it is right and what does it mean to you.

Clearly it would be right because when it claimes there is only one God and it is the Christian/Jewish God Yahweh, then the How is established on the logic of inerrancy of the Bible.

Then you merely have the choice of submitting to the authority of God's place in your life as the Bible dictates, or you choose to deny it.

That is all there is.

It is very logical as, in my case, when the answer as to what the Bible was finally came about, I had to either do the right thing or wrong thing. I did the right thing.

The funny part is that all the right thing IS is simply following what God directs you to do and have a relationship with Him. -No rituals, pilgrimages, or conquering by sword, establishing His kingdom on earth, etc.

All it is about is coming back to the Father you are seperated from by human-nature's desire to be like God ourselves.

 

[Lestat]

wow Hawk is really losing it.


So Mormonism is man made? How so? Joseph Smith talked DIRECTLY with God. God gave him plates with HIS WORDS on it and gave Joseph the ability to translate them. Sounds like Mormonism came DIRECTLY from God!

To me, Christianity looks man made. Lets say Judaism was true, then all of a sudden a MAN comes along (Jesus) and says some things, then a bunch of other MEN (Disciples) write about Jesus (a man). Now you say that Jesus is the son of god, so its from Christ right? Well how can you say that Jesus was a son of god, but that Joseph Smith didn't talk to Jesus directly? The proof is in the book of Mormon and Abraham right? Doesn't it make perfect sense that Jesus would visit North America to witness to the people here too? Why does the Middle East get all the fun, god loves ALL PEOPLE so why not spread the word to remote (at the time) areas of the world?


So Christians think that Mormons are full of shit and its all contrived.

Jews think Christians are full of shit and contrived.

I think everyone who claims to know how or why we are here is full of shit and subscribes to contrived belief systems invented by MEN.

 

[theprofessor]

so by that logic, had you have been praying to a different god, then that one would be the true one?

umm... no... becuse the things i have experienced would not have happened...

 

[krishna]

do a search on bible prophecy if you need to know that bad... you know as well as i do you will find hours of reading...

I don't need to know. I've already stated how a prophecy works, and I am familiar with bible prophecy. I am asking so that I will know what YOU are referring to. You can't just say something is without any supporting evidence. Where is your supporting evidence? Give me some examples.

 

[Lestat]

umm... no... becuse the things i have experienced would not have happened...

lol. and I suppose you know that for a fact somehow?

 

[[email protected]]

Wow, you've very adament about your close-mindedness.

Define.

In islamic belief, open mindedness is submission to allah. -So yes, I am very adamant about my "closedmindedness".

It's clear to me that no matter what anyone says, you will find a way to spew your ignorant opinion all over it. Your post is so wrong in so many ways that I wouldn't even know where to begin addressing it.

Ignorant opinion. -Yet you will not counter with proof.

Again, the thing you do not like is that you have called me stupid any number of times and when called on it, WITH PROOF, you hurl more insults. I suppose next you will be looking for me to send the beheading posse? It is known that this DOES happen, so, again- do not think I am ignorant.

How bout this? I, the non-christian, will lay it to rest and choose not to hate or argue anymore.

Why did you hate before?

Again, you define hate by a non-muslim as unacceptance of islam. If you do not want to argue anymore, that is fine. I don't consider myself arguing as much as showing the facts of both sides and getting rid of opinion. Typical arguments happen when opinion is present, not facts. Facts are undisputable unless opinion blinds.

Figures the non-christian would be the one choosing peace instead of the christian. Good luck my friend.

Peace is not what Jesus came to bring. He came to seperate those who choose love and acceptance of their savior from those who choose idols, false gods, and themselves as their gods.

Allah is not a peace loving "god" either. Islam insists all must submit or be conquerd. Only then do they have peace.

 

[Lestat]

theprofessor:

How is this, I will settle this once and for all.

I will pray to Allah tonight and tell him that if he is the true god, make it so that I am on time to work tomorrow. If that happens, then I have no choice but to believe he is true.

I'll give Jesus a chance too, make me get into a car wreck on the way home from work if he is the true god, and I'll serve him.

seems simple enough, especially for an all powerful being.

 

[[email protected]]

wow Hawk is really losing it.

So Mormonism is man made? How so? Joseph Smith talked DIRECTLY with God. God gave him plates with HIS WORDS on it and gave Joseph the ability to translate them. Sounds like Mormonism came DIRECTLY from God!

I answered that.

I don't claim anything, here. We should get that straight first. I am merely showing what the BIBLE says about things. When it says no other prophets will exist, that is rock solid fact. When it says there will be no other Gods, all others are false, that is rock solid fact.

Mormonism denies both of these and does so on the premise of 1 man's CLAIMED opinion -DEFYING BIBLICAL MANDATE, and recieved this information BY BEING OF LIGHT personally. -As I said, it defied God and was by a being of light. Satan, we are told by the Bible represents himself as a being of light, so there is your answer to what mormonism is.

Even in Genesis, the serpent's basic idea to get eve to eat from the tree of knowledge was "Ye shall be as gods".

Sound familiar?

To me, Christianity looks man made. Lets say Judaism was true, then all of a sudden a MAN comes along (Jesus) and says some things, then a bunch of other MEN (Disciples) write about Jesus (a man). Now you say that Jesus is the son of god, so its from Christ right?

It was also in Judaism. The Old Testament IS Judaism. The point there is that in their own scriptures, they see a Messiah will come to deliver the people. Prophecies are given. Jesus came, Jews in power liked to be in power and deny anything but their power. When Jesus was crucified, some realized what they had done. Meanwhile, some commoner Jews followed Jesus and Jesus revealed the New Testament. -Salvation. The word of salvation was dictated to be preached to the Jew first and then the Gentile. That way those who had missed first would hear the Word.

For the second coming, it will not happen until the last Jews on earth submit and ask Jesus to return. -There will only be a handful as the whole world will be trying to hunt the Jews down and kill them.

Well how can you say that Jesus was a son of god, but that Joseph Smith didn't talk to Jesus directly? The proof is in the book of Mormon and Abraham right? Doesn't it make perfect sense that Jesus would visit North America to witness to the people here too? Why does the Middle East get all the fun, god loves ALL PEOPLE so why not spread the word to remote (at the time) areas of the world?

At the time of Jesus walking the Earth, the mideast was the focal point of all. -Jews were who the message was to primarilly, so they got to see Him. Then they spread outward from there.

So Christians think that Mormons are full of shit and its all contrived.

Jews think Christians are full of shit and contrived.

Yep.

I think everyone who claims to know how or why we are here is full of shit and subscribes to contrived belief systems invented by MEN.

Logical.

But innacurate.

 

[krishna]

I bet the people argueing against Islam don't even realize that it's a continuation of christianity. They prey to ONE god, which is the same god of the bible. They believe in the SAME prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, Isiah, Jesus, etc. They believe in the old testament. The only place they differ is that although they acknowledge that Jesus was a great prophet, they don't agree that he is god or anymore divine that the other prophets. This would be logically consistent with the falsities of jesus being resurrected; being born of a virgin, bearing the sin of all man. Jesus was a prophet who was killed on a wooden pole, it's as simple as that. Seeing how the new testament is a bunch of random letters and garbage thrown together through counsel of the romans, I tend to side with Islam in that aspect. It's more logical, and makes more sense. Not so many contradictions. For those who don't know logic (which is the case with most christian extremists because they have to be illogical to have any form of argument), a contradiction is when a proposed occurence or statement logically implies that it is impossible for another proposed occurence or statement, in relation to the first statement, to be true. If one of the occurences or statements is true, then the other one has to be false. For example, the statement, "I dropped my pencil at exactly 12:59pm on 8/8/06" can only be true if the statement, "I didn't drop my pencil at exactly 12:59pm on 8/8/06" is false, and vice versa. To say that they are both true is a contradiction meaning that it is impossible for both statements to be true. The bible is loaded with contradictions. Even breaking down logic to its simplest form, which I just did, unfortunately still won't be enough for highly opinionated christians to actually start using their brains to make sense of things. If one chooses to ignore the contradictions out of "faith", then that person is nothing but a blind sheep/follower with no zeal for truth or life outside their brainwashed institutions of religion.

 

[krishna]

Haha...because a book says something, it makes it a "rock solid fact" eh? Oh right, this book is titled "bible" so it has to be true.........haha. You have no more ground for calling anything in the bible a "rock solid fact" than I do when I say a leprachaun screwed my neighbors dog yesterday. BTW, what I just said is a "rock solid fact" lol.

 

[Lestat]

I answered that.

I don't claim anything, here. We should get that straight first. I am merely showing what the BIBLE says about things. When it says no other prophets will exist, that is rock solid fact. When it says there will be no other Gods, all others are false, that is rock solid fact.

Mormonism denies both of these and does so on the premise of 1 man's CLAIMED opinion -DEFYING BIBLICAL MANDATE, and recieved this information BY BEING OF LIGHT personally. -As I said, it defied God and was by a being of light. Satan, we are told by the Bible represents himself as a being of light, so there is your answer to what mormonism is.

Even in Genesis, the serpent's basic idea to get eve to eat from the tree of knowledge was "Ye shall be as gods".

Sound familiar?

To me, Christianity looks man made. Lets say Judaism was true, then all of a sudden a MAN comes along (Jesus) and says some things, then a bunch of other MEN (Disciples) write about Jesus (a man). Now you say that Jesus is the son of god, so its from Christ right?

It was also in Judaism. The Old Testament IS Judaism. The point there is that in their own scriptures, they see a Messiah will come to deliver the people. Prophecies are given. Jesus came, Jews in power liked to be in power and deny anything but their power. When Jesus was crucified, some realized what they had done. Meanwhile, some commoner Jews followed Jesus and Jesus revealed the New Testament. -Salvation. The word of salvation was dictated to be preached to the Jew first and then the Gentile. That way those who had missed first would hear the Word.

For the second coming, it will not happen until the last Jews on earth submit and ask Jesus to return. -There will only be a handful as the whole world will be trying to hunt the Jews down and kill them.



At the time of Jesus walking the Earth, the mideast was the focal point of all. -Jews were who the message was to primarilly, so they got to see Him. Then they spread outward from there.



Yep.



Logical.

But innacurate.

how can you claim any of that to be a rock solid fact?

and god can do anything he wants right? Maybe he decided to visit the native americans after those disciples had already written down what they thought were facts. God can do anything, he can certainly change his mind.


And what about all that old testament law that Christians are so QUICK to say is not applicable anymore! Was that law rock solid fact at one time, do you eat shellfish?

 

[[email protected]]

I bet the people argueing against Islam don't even realize that it's a continuation of christianity.

No, it is a false revision of Biblical text like all other cults.

They prey to ONE god, which is the same god of the bible.

-No.

Christianity, as dictated in the Bible worships Yahweh, God of the Jesw and Gentiles, and all creation.

Islam worships ALLAH, a false god, pagan moon god.

Allah is the name of the fasle god, as Yahweh is the name of THE god.

They believe in the SAME prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, Isiah, Jesus, etc.

-If they did, they would believe Jesus at His word, and believe Jews are a chosen people. Instead, islam REWROTE the text to hate Jews and change everything from early Old Testament out.

They believe in the old testament. The only place they differ is that although they acknowledge that Jesus was a great prophet, they don't agree that he is god or anymore divine that the other prophets.

Oh. Then they agree God's chosen people are Jews too. -As that is in the OT far before Jesus.

You are showing you are far more ignorant of history and the Bible than you let on. -But you are good at guessing what propaganda to use.

This would be logically consistent with the falsities of jesus being resurrected; being born of a virgin, bearing the sin of all man. Jesus was a prophet who was killed on a wooden pole, it's as simple as that.

Proof?

Seeing how the new testament is a bunch of random letters and garbage thrown together through counsel of the romans, I tend to side with Islam in that aspect.

Really? Wow. I suppose the Romans can dictate prophecy?
So islam advocates supposing that catholics can dictate prophecy?

I guess that makes sense. After all, Vatican II and the meetings the pope has with islamic leaders DOES confer and prove a partnership.

It's more logical, and makes more sense. Not so many contradictions. For those who don't know logic (which is the case with most christian extremists

-Ahem.

The proper abusive misrepresented slang term is "fundamentalists".

because they have to be illogical to have any form of argument), a contradiction is when a proposed occurence or statement logically implies that it is impossible for another proposed occurence or statement, in relation to the first statement, to be true. If one of the occurences or statements is true, then the other one has to be false. For example, the statement, "I dropped my pencil at exactly 12:59pm on 8/8/06" can only be true if the statement, "I didn't drop my pencil at exactly 12:59pm on 8/8/06" is false, and vice versa. To say that they are both true is a contradiction meaning that it is impossible for both statements to be true. The bible is loaded with contradictions. Even breaking down logic to its simplest form, which I just did, unfortunately still won't be enough for highly opinionated christians to actually start using their brains to make sense of things.

Do you realize I have shown only fact, and you have only used illogical opinion like you just accused Christians of?

More insults because you have no proof again.

If one chooses to ignore the contradictions out of "faith", then that person is nothing but a blind sheep/follower with no zeal for truth or life outside their brainwashed institutions of religion.

Yeah.

Ok.

 

[krishna]

Plus if god loves all man, how can christians be so vein to think that he wouldn't send other prophets to other people who needed them, i.e., buddha, mohammed, krishna, etc.? Jesus didn't even come to save you, he came to save the Jews.

 

[Lestat]

Plus if god loves all man, how can christians be so vein to think that he wouldn't send other prophets to other people who needed them, i.e., buddha, mohammed, krishna, etc.? Jesus didn't even come to save you, he came to save the Jews.

yeah I wonder why people forget that, god wanted to save HIS PEOPLE, which were the jews, yet now everyone wants to jump on the jesus bandwagon? so trendy.

 

[krishna]

No, it is a false revision of Biblical text like all other cults.



-No.

Christianity, as dictated in the Bible worships Yahweh, God of the Jesw and Gentiles, and all creation.

Islam worships ALLAH, a false god, pagan moon god.

Allah is the name of the fasle god, as Yahweh is the name of THE god.



-If they did, they would believe Jesus at His word, and believe Jews are a chosen people. Instead, islam REWROTE the text to hate Jews and change everything from early Old Testament out.



Oh. Then they agree God's chosen people are Jews too. -As that is in the OT far before Jesus.

You are showing you are far more ignorant of history and the Bible than you let on. -But you are good at guessing what propaganda to use.



Proof?



Really? Wow. I suppose the Romans can dictate prophecy?
So islam advocates supposing that catholics can dictate prophecy?

I guess that makes sense. After all, Vatican II and the meetings the pope has with islamic leaders DOES confer and prove a partnership.



-Ahem.

The proper abusive misrepresented slang term is "fundamentalists".



Do you realize I have shown only fact, and you have only used illogical opinion like you just accused Christians of?

More insults because you have no proof again.



Yeah.

Ok.

I'm just going to point out one thing about your post that should be enough to show everyone how retarted you are. You say that christians worship yahwey, and that muslims worship allah. I agree with you on that point. Say an american guy and a chinese girl walk together in the park. They both see the SAME lovely tree in the middle of the park. The american says look at the pretty "tree", but the chinese girl calls it something else. Does this mean that they weren't both talking about the same thing? According to your logic it does. But wait, I forgot, you have no concept of logic. If I call my dog Joe, and my sister calls the same dog Binky, it doesn't mean they are two different dogs. Do you get the point? It actually would not surprise me at all if this goes straight over your head. You just called your god a moon god...lol

 

[AAP]

The New Testament is nothing more than a collaberation of ancient politicians that hand picked what they wanted to go into it for the sole sake of their own agenda. God did not write the Bible. Man wrote the Bible. Man voted on what to include in the Bible and what to change about the entire Biblical history. Jesus did not receive his Divine Holiness from God, he received it from a vote (very narrow one at that) of ancient Roman idiots.

 

[Frisky]

I'm just going to point out one thing about your post that should be enough to show everyone how retarted you are. You say that christians worship yahwey, and that muslims worship allah. I agree with you on that point. Say an american guy and a chinese girl walk together in the park. They both see the SAME lovely tree in the middle of the park. The american says look at the pretty "tree", but the chinese girl calls it something else. Does this mean that they weren't both talking about the same thing? According to your logic it does. But wait, I forgot, you have no concept of logic. If I call my dog Joe, and my sister calls the same dog Binky, it doesn't mean they are two different dogs. Do you get the point? It actually would not surprise me at all if this goes straight over your head. You just called your god a moon god...lol

wow.... I couldn't have said it better myself

 

[[email protected]]

how can you claim any of that to be a rock solid fact?

Again, follow the logic:

When the Bible claims it is the inerrant word of God, it either is entirely or isn't entirely.

No middle ground.

If it says there are flying donkeys, and we do not see any, yet it proved its self divine, then we must assume we HAVENT SEEN FLYING DONKEYS but they must exist.

By comparison, that is how science is proving the Bible valid every day. All those things people believed in historically like the ark are being understood today and understood factually by comparing technology today with descriptions of the Bible.

For instance:

A virgin birth now makes perfect sense when cloning technology is understood.

and god can do anything he wants right? Maybe he decided to visit the native americans after those disciples had already written down what they thought were facts. God can do anything, he can certainly change his mind.

True and false.

God claims and by evidence CAN do anything, but WILL He?

If He changes His mind, it makes him 3 things He claims He cannot (by obvious self limitation) be:

1. Contradictory
2. A liar
3. Unjust

And what about all that old testament law that Christians are so QUICK to say is not applicable anymore! Was that law rock solid fact at one time, do you eat shellfish?

OT law was for Jews to follow unitl Jesus walked the Earth. The purpose of Jewish law was to attone for sin. -This is stated everywhere in the Bible.

The attonement is a payback. -Not an erasure, but a balancing of sin.

Jesus was sent to "pay the debt", "wash away", and "cleanse" sin. He was to be the "sacraficial lamb" to "pay the debt ONCE AND FOR ALL".

As such, His death on the cross paid all of the sin and nullified the attonement practices. The 10 commandments are a specific list of how Jews were to behave toward one another. -Not how they were to deal with sin.

How they ate as dictated in scripture was not a listed commandment, but a dictation of environmental functionality practices given by God for their survival.

Christians who say the commandments are not applicable (again the commandments are only the ones dealing with sin) anymore ignore several new testament things:

1. Jews are to keep the commandments allways.
2. Commandments are only specifically for Jews.
3. Gentiles are told to follow the same basic pattern for loving one another and loving God with all your heart.

Therefore, they misunderstand the entire scope and detail of context.

It isn't complicated, but many who call themselves Christians like to make up their own doctrine or earn their way to heaven.

God accepts neither.

 

[Lestat]

lol, bro did you just say that Jesus was cloned???

are you insane?

you are right, it either is all fact or it is all not, and the fact is, it was not written by God. I agree with you there, that's a fact jack.

 

[[email protected]]

yeah I wonder why people forget that, god wanted to save HIS PEOPLE, which were the jews, yet now everyone wants to jump on the jesus bandwagon? so trendy.

No, Jesus Himself said He came to save Jews AND Gentiles.

Again, it is in the Bible.

 

[krishna]

Again, follow the logic:

When the Bible claims it is the inerrant word of God, it either is entirely or isn't entirely.

No middle ground.

If it says there are flying donkeys, and we do not see any, yet it proved its self divine, then we must assume we HAVENT SEEN FLYING DONKEYS but they must exist.

By comparison, that is how science is proving the Bible valid every day. All those things people believed in historically like the ark are being understood today and understood factually by comparing technology today with descriptions of the Bible.

For instance:

A virgin birth now makes perfect sense when cloning technology is understood.



True and false.

God claims and by evidence CAN do anything, but WILL He?

If He changes His mind, it makes him 3 things He claims He cannot (by obvious self limitation) be:

1. Contradictory
2. A liar
3. Unjust



OT law was for Jews to follow unitl Jesus walked the Earth. The purpose of Jewish law was to attone for sin. -This is stated everywhere in the Bible.

The attonement is a payback. -Not an erasure, but a balancing of sin.

Jesus was sent to "pay the debt", "wash away", and "cleanse" sin. He was to be the "sacraficial lamb" to "pay the debt ONCE AND FOR ALL".

As such, His death on the cross paid all of the sin and nullified the attonement practices. The 10 commandments are a specific list of how Jews were to behave toward one another. -Not how they were to deal with sin.

How they ate as dictated in scripture was not a listed commandment, but a dictation of environmental functionality practices given by God for their survival.

Christians who say the commandments are not applicable (again the commandments are only the ones dealing with sin) anymore ignore several new testament things:

1. Jews are to keep the commandments allways.
2. Commandments are only specifically for Jews.
3. Gentiles are told to follow the same basic pattern for loving one another and loving God with all your heart.

Therefore, they misunderstand the entire scope and detail of context.

It isn't complicated, but many who call themselves Christians like to make up their own doctrine or earn their way to heaven.

God accepts neither.

Hey you just pointed out one of the contridictions for me. If god is omnipotent, then that implies that he can do anything and everything, but you said he cannot lie or be unjust. I'll use your own words to quote "No middle ground"; either he can do everything or he can't. Which is it? The bible claims both are true....CONTRADICTION - meaning it's not possible.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm just going to point out one thing about your post that should be enough to show everyone how retarted you are. You say that christians worship yahwey, and that muslims worship allah. I agree with you on that point. Say an american guy and a chinese girl walk together in the park. They both see the SAME lovely tree in the middle of the park. The american says look at the pretty "tree", but the chinese girl calls it something else. Does this mean that they weren't both talking about the same thing? According to your logic it does. But wait, I forgot, you have no concept of logic. If I call my dog Joe, and my sister calls the same dog Binky, it doesn't mean they are two different dogs. Do you get the point? It actually would not surprise me at all if this goes straight over your head. You just called your god a moon god...lol

More insults. Nice.

By your own admission, the Bible is different from the text you have. Therefore, only one can be accurate.

-Using your own logic example from above.

Except you say you agree there are two different names for the same god.

Your "god" says one thing, the Bible (which you cannot prove non-divine) says another.

One is wrong.

You would rather insult people who follow the divine.

 

[Lestat]

If I am to believe that Jesus was really the son of god, then I would also believe that he visited north america and revealed things to joseph smith. they both have books to confirm this as fact according to their believers.

i believe none of it though, and i still don't understand why others can't see right through all the charades.

 

[theprofessor]

theprofessor:

How is this, I will settle this once and for all.

I will pray to Allah tonight and tell him that if he is the true god, make it so that I am on time to work tomorrow. If that happens, then I have no choice but to believe he is true.

I'll give Jesus a chance too, make me get into a car wreck on the way home from work if he is the true god, and I'll serve him.

seems simple enough, especially for an all powerful being.

if you dont believe in God... he will not speak so directly with you....
i know you have read the Bible... so you should know... "do not put the Lord to silly tests"...
you have to have a relationship with Him...
God dosn't fill "requests" like that... the Bible teaches that...

 

[[email protected]]

The New Testament is nothing more than a collaberation of ancient politicians that hand picked what they wanted to go into it for the sole sake of their own agenda. God did not write the Bible. Man wrote the Bible. Man voted on what to include in the Bible and what to change about the entire Biblical history.

Right on a couple of points:

1. Catholicism changed it.
2. Wescott and Hort, several hundred years ago changed it. -Where most translations come from.
3. Common printing and spelling errors changed it.

That is why I say original Greek and HEBREW are the accuracies and all others must agree or be false.

Jesus did not receive his Divine Holiness from God, he received it from a vote (very narrow one at that) of ancient Roman idiots.

Prove it.

 

[Frisky]

If I am to believe that Jesus was really the son of god, then I would also believe that he visited north america and revealed things to joseph smith. they both have books to confirm this as fact according to their believers.

i believe none of it though, and i still don't understand why others can't see right through all the charades.

I don't believe your red head story or your carwash story, I just don't have proof

 

[Lestat]

if you dont believe in God... he will not speak so directly with you....
i know you have read the Bible... so you should know... "do not put the Lord to silly tests"...
you have to have a relationship with Him...
God dosn't fill "requests" like that... the Bible teaches that...

i don't think it is a silly request, I am genuinely in search of the truth. Does god really think that the fate of my soul for eternity is a trivial matter?

so what if he gave his only son 2000+ years ago, I wasn't even around then! what has he done for me lately? nothing. I've called upon him many times in my life and received not a peep.

 

[krishna]

More insults. Nice.

By your own admission, the Bible is different from the text you have. Therefore, only one can be accurate.

-Using your own logic example from above.

Except you say you agree there are two different names for the same god.

Your "god" says one thing, the Bible (which you cannot prove non-divine) says another.

One is wrong.

You would rather insult people who follow the divine.

There are 1000's of different names for god, and for anything or anyone for that matter. I can refer to the god of the bible as "penis breath", and that's his name to me. The god of islam sent down Abraham, Moses, Isiah, and Jesus. They hold the old testament as true. Are you saying that the old testament is false? But wait, it's apart of the christian religion too. Now you can't say islam is totally false or else you'd be saying that christianity is false also because they both believe in the old testament. Interesting.

 

[[email protected]]

lol, bro did you just say that Jesus was cloned???

I said a virgin birth makes sense by what we know today. -Not that the method was cloning.

Point being: That which seemed absured long ago and was a miracle is becoming more possible today, which makes the Bible proven divine more and more daily.

 

[[email protected]]

Hey you just pointed out one of the contridictions for me. If god is omnipotent, then that implies that he can do anything and everything, but you said he cannot lie or be unjust. I'll use your own words to quote "No middle ground"; either he can do everything or he can't. Which is it? The bible claims both are true....CONTRADICTION - meaning it's not possible.

If an omnipotent God states that He will not allow Himself to behave a certain way, then that is what it is.

There is no contradiction unless you say that you CAN jump off a bulding but because you DO NOT that it is a contradiction.

Where is YOUR sense of logic you claim to have over Christians?

 

[krishna]

I just let the neighbors dog use an old bible I had in the closet as a chew toy. I think he's peeing on it now. I must be going to hell....lol

 

[Lestat]

I said a virgin birth makes sense by what we know today. -Not that the method was cloning.

Point being: That which seemed absured long ago and was a miracle is becoming more possible today, which makes the Bible proven divine more and more daily.
please explain to me how cloning and the virigin birth have anything to do with each other.

you are saying that cloning makes the virgin birth "make sense" now right? how exactly?

 

[krishna]

If an omnipotent God states that He will not allow Himself to behave a certain way, then that is what it is.

There is no contradiction unless you say that you CAN jump off a bulding but because you DO NOT that it is a contradiction.

Where is YOUR sense of logic you claim to have over Christians?

Can he make an invincible rock and then destroy it? If he could destroy it, then it wouldn't be invincible, and he failed to make an invincible rock; but if he couldn't destroy it, then his omnipotence failed once again because he couldn't destroy it. There's your logic buddy. Now it's not about whether he chooses to or not, it's about whether or not he can. Rebuttle?

 

[[email protected]]

If I am to believe that Jesus was really the son of god, then I would also believe that he visited north america and revealed things to joseph smith. they both have books to confirm this as fact according to their believers.

-Again. The Bible prooves its self. What you are saying is you give prophecy no weight, but a man's word, all the authority of God.

Proof to you then means nothing.

If you suppose to believe something based on another man's opinon, you will NEVER find facts. Research it yourself. The book of Mormon has ZERO prophecy. The Bible has LOTS.

i believe none of it though, and i still don't understand why others can't see right through all the charades.

Then why ask?

If you look for facts, you will find them.

 

[krishna]

-Again. The Bible prooves its self. What you are saying is you give prophecy no weight, but a man's word, all the authority of God.

Proof to you then means nothing.

If you suppose to believe something based on another man's opinon, you will NEVER find facts. Research it yourself. The book of Mormon has ZERO prophecy. The Bible has LOTS.



Then why ask?

If you look for facts, you will find them.

You have to have an open mind to find truth. If you are fixated on something such as a certain doctrine, it doesn't matter if truth is staring you right in the face, you won't see it because of the religious filter in your mind. Open your mind zealous one.

 

[[email protected]]

i don't think it is a silly request, I am genuinely in search of the truth. Does god really think that the fate of my soul for eternity is a trivial matter?

If you are, why are you just casually asking questions you are not researching evidence for?

You keep denying without looking at the proof of Biblical validity.

NOTHING means anything when you go from wors out of mouth. If the Bible is false, Christianity is false. You said you believe it is false.

You are not looking for answers.

so what if he gave his only son 2000+ years ago, I wasn't even around then! what has he done for me lately? nothing. I've called upon him many times in my life and received not a peep.

 

[Lestat]

-Again. The Bible prooves its self. What you are saying is you give prophecy no weight, but a man's word, all the authority of God.

Proof to you then means nothing.

If you suppose to believe something based on another man's opinon, you will NEVER find facts. Research it yourself. The book of Mormon has ZERO prophecy. The Bible has LOTS.



Then why ask?

If you look for facts, you will find them.

so far all i've found is a bunch of bullshit.


and the book for mormon states that the priesthood will be re instated, and that god will talk directly to profets again.

That has happened (according to the mormons) so the book is 100% fact and has prophecy!

its a matter of opinion and preference in reality, since we are talkign about "faith" here right?

 

[theprofessor]

I don't need to know. I've already stated how a prophecy works, and I am familiar with bible prophecy. I am asking so that I will know what YOU are referring to. You can't just say something is without any supporting evidence. Where is your supporting evidence? Give me some examples.

yes... i can say somthing without supporting evidence.... you read the words... i said it...
you can take the prophecies as you want...
you can take the witnesses of Christians as you want...
we are only stating our beliefs... feelings... etc... based on personal experiences with God... and no matter what we tell you we have seen or done or "know".... all you can do is hear it as a story (or the coincidence excuse)...
on the flip-side to that coin... there is no evidence that the Bible is false either... so it is a lost cause to argue over...
we give out our testimony to those that want to hear... and if you are within shouting distance... i will yell so you can hear it even if you dont want to...

 

[[email protected]]

I just let the neighbors dog use an old bible I had in the closet as a chew toy. I think he's peeing on it now. I must be going to hell....lol

Ummm....again, showing ignorance of Bible text.

I don't really care what you let your dog use.

-Why not let him use the koran?

Oh, yes, because that is considered so wrong and you would have to kill him.

A loving God would not care what you did to a book, but cares what you do in your heart.

 

[krishna]

yes... i can say somthing without supporting evidence.... you read the words... i said it...
you can take the prophecies as you want...
you can take the witnesses of Christians as you want...
we are only stating our beliefs... feelings... etc... based on personal experiences with God... and no matter what we tell you we have seen or done or "know".... all you can do is hear it as a story (or the coincidence excuse)...
on the flip-side to that coin... there is no evidence that the Bible is false either... so it is a lost cause to argue over...
we give out our testimony to those that want to hear... and if you are within shouting distance... i will yell so you can hear it even if you dont want to...

You said the prophecy is what makes the bible a fact, yet you can't point out a single occurence. There is plenty of evidence to support that the bible is false (even aside from all the logical contradictions and inconsistencies). Creationism dates back roughly 6000 years, yet science has traced the evolution of man to nearly 60,000 years. What about the dinosaurs? If it's a sin to be gay, why are some animals gay? The fact that animals are predisposed to homosexual tendencies clearly points to genetics as the reason for homosexuality. But why would god put it in our genes to be gay if it's a sin? If it's in our genes, it's not a choice. Where exactly is heaven? Astronomy shows us that there is nothing but infinite space.

 

[theprofessor]

i don't think it is a silly request, I am genuinely in search of the truth. Does god really think that the fate of my soul for eternity is a trivial matter?

so what if he gave his only son 2000+ years ago, I wasn't even around then! what has he done for me lately? nothing. I've called upon him many times in my life and received not a peep.

were you in a relationship with God when you called on Him...
or were you a doubter who just tried to use Him as your geenie in a bottle....?

no... your soul is not a trivial matter at all... but that's not how God set things up... man has free-will... some will believe...some wont... He will not grant requests to "prove" Himself... as he must be FOUND...
this is biblical and you can look it up if you need to read it for yourself...
but like you said... you read the Bible a few times...

 

[Mr. dB]

NOTHING means anything when you go from wors out of mouth. If the Bible is false, Christianity is false. You said you believe it is false.

You are not looking for answers.

Well, consider how long the books of the Old Testament existed as word of mouth legends before they were written down by scribes. You've just undermined your own argument.

 

[[email protected]]

Ok.

Final post:

Krishna,

You clearly deny looking at facts, and get off on philosophical debates without fact just to argue. I have shown you facts, you have shown me none. I have proven islam is not Christianity in any way shape or form. You have not once done anything but hurl insults because you are not serious in looking for truth.

Lestat,

I am a firm believer that you are looking for answers, but your perception of your intellect keeps you from pursuing them. It would hurt the ego also to know that you would be submitting. I know, I have been there.

Therefore, since this is nothing more than a situation where I address things with proof and reason, while I get addressed with insults and statements that nobody really cares to examine the proof that exists, I will quit posting on this thread.

I have far better things to do with my time.

For those that want to claim me insufficient in this discussion, let it be known any rational mind can seriously look at my posts and easily see the reality of proof if a scientific or fact finding mission is to take place.

 

[krishna]

Ummm....again, showing ignorance of Bible text.

I don't really care what you let your dog use.

-Why not let him use the koran?

Oh, yes, because that is considered so wrong and you would have to kill him.

A loving God would not care what you did to a book, but cares what you do in your heart.

Really? God doesn't care that I desicrated his "rock solid facts"? Isn't his word supposed to be holy or something? But wait, you said it's just a book, so that means you have no more proof that anything in it is true than I do that unicorns exist.

 

[Lestat]

were you in a relationship with God when you called on Him...
or were you a doubter who just tried to use Him as your geenie in a bottle....?

no... your soul is not a trivial matter at all... but that's not how God set things up... man has free-will... some will believe...some wont... He will not grant requests to "prove" Himself... as he must be FOUND...
this is biblical and you can look it up if you need to read it for yourself...
but like you said... you read the Bible a few times...

i was a devout believer at the time bro, a born again christian. born again in christ and a supporter and follower.

 

[krishna]

Ok.

Final post:

Krishna,

You clearly deny looking at facts, and get off on philosophical debates without fact just to argue. I have shown you facts, you have shown me none. I have proven islam is not Christianity in any way shape or form. You have not once done anything but hurl insults because you are not serious in looking for truth.

Lestat,

I am a firm believer that you are looking for answers, but your perception of your intellect keeps you from pursuing them. It would hurt the ego also to know that you would be submitting. I know, I have been there.

Therefore, since this is nothing more than a situation where I address things with proof and reason, while I get addressed with insults and statements that nobody really cares to examine the proof that exists, I will quit posting on this thread.

I have far better things to do with my time.

For those that want to claim me insufficient in this discussion, let it be known any rational mind can seriously look at my posts and easily see the reality of proof if a scientific or fact finding mission is to take place.

Once and for all... Your opinions aren't facts! Just because you say it doesn't mean you've proven anything. Go back and take a basic biology class and learn the scientific method. You throw the words prove and fact around like they are meaningless because you sure aren't using them correctly. You base everything you say on the assumption that everything in the bible is true, but this just isn't the case. Funny that you avoided my invincible rock argument, and that you avoided that fact that islam and christianity share a belief in the entire old testament. If you say that islam is completely wrong, then you imply that christianity is at least half wrong because half of islam is the old testament. If you admit that islam is at least half right by believing in the old testament, then you admit that they share the same god. No wonder you didn't address this, your case would be screwed either way. Even your fellow christians (who at least have an open mind) have disagreed with you on this thread.

 

[theprofessor]

You said the prophecy is what makes the bible a fact, yet you can't point out a single occurence. There is plenty of evidence to support that the bible is false (even aside from all the logical contradictions and inconsistencies). Creationism dates back roughly 6000 years, yet science has traced the evolution of man to nearly 60,000 years. What about the dinosaurs? If it's a sin to be gay, why are some animals gay? The fact that animals are predisposed to homosexual tendencies clearly points to genetics as the reason for homosexuality. But why would god put it in our genes to be gay if it's a sin? If it's in our genes, it's not a choice. Where exactly is heaven? Astronomy shows us that there is nothing but infinite space.

i already told you... do a search on "Bible prophecy".... there is no need for me to give you anything more than that and you can research it yourself... there is plenty to read on the subject...
science... lol... it is always proven wrong... do you still think the earth is flat...
dont think for one minute that science even tells the truth everytime...
what about the dinosausrs? look up the Behemoth in the book of Job... there are your dinosaurs...
animals being gay? how do you know the animals true sexual tendencies?... for all you know they are straight and just need to get off somehow because their hormones are flaring... but either way... animals can be possessed by demons (many times in the Bible)... there are many explanations for this...
being gay is a choice... or it could ( and im not saying in ALL cases, maybe very rarely) be a sickness, mentaly... either by birth or abuse etc..
if there is nothing but infinite space out there like you say... i'd say heaven is out there so far we could never see it... or...

 

[krishna]

i already told you... do a search on "Bible prophecy".... there is no need for me to give you anything more than that and you can research it yourself... there is plenty to read on the subject...
science... lol... it is always proven wrong... do you still think the earth is flat...
dont think for one minute that science even tells the truth everytime...
what about the dinosausrs? look up the Behemoth in the book of Job... there are your dinosaurs...
animals being gay? how do you know the animals true sexual tendencies?... for all you know they are straight and just need to get off somehow because their hormones are flaring... but either way... animals can be possessed by demons (many times in the Bible)... there are many explanations for this...
being gay is a choice... or it could ( and im not saying in ALL cases, maybe very rarely) be a sickness, mentaly... either by birth or abuse etc..
if there is nothing but infinite space out there like you say... i'd say heaven is out there so far we could never see it... or...

Wow, you just said being gay is a disease. Again....... WOW. I didn't ask you to give me an example because I need one. Again, I asked so that I would know what you were referring to. If you can't give me one instance of evidence, that tells me you are full of shit. BTW, what does your comment about the earth being flat have to do with anything?

 

[theprofessor]

i was a devout believer at the time bro, a born again christian. born again in christ and a supporter and follower.

honestly then bro... all i can say is He dosnt always have as direct an answer for some as others... some people pray the same prayer over for many years... and it finaly comes true... others do the same... and the prayer may be answered immediately...
you have to be willing to do God's work in your life...
for example... your prayer may have been genuine... say... to have God help you climb a mountain...
but if its God's will that you take the fork in the road instead...
so He's not going to intentionaly hurt your climb up the mountain... but He just wont offer the divine protection He's offering down the other path...
so... life isnt always easier being a Christian or not... He has his own agenda... and like in the book of Job... some people just dont get all the "breaks"... and sometimes prayers just arent answered... God has His own plans... His reasoning... etc...
but i suppose the only question i have that matters is... what is it that led you to disbelief?...

 

[Mr. dB]

BTW, what does your comment about the earth being flat have to do with anything?

He is using that as an example of how science can be wrong and the Bible right. He is implying that "science" once claimed that the world was flat.

 

[krishna]

He is using that as an example of how science can be wrong and the Bible right. He is implying that "science" once claimed that the world was flat.

Science wasn't wrong in assuming the world is flat. That's the essence of the scientific method. You first hypothesize and come up with a theory, i.e., the earth is flat, then you test it to find out whether or not it holds in order to get to the truth. In this case, the theory was wrong, but not science, the whole process of science is what led us to the discovery that the earth is actually round.

 

[theprofessor]

Wow, you just said being gay is a disease. Again....... WOW. I didn't ask you to give me an example because I need one. Again, I asked so that I would know what you were referring to. If you can't give me one instance of evidence, that tells me you are full of shit. BTW, what does your comment about the earth being flat have to do with anything?

i never once said being gay is a diesease... dont put words in my mouth... i said its possible through abuse... mentaly or physicaly... my wife's aunt is gay because she was raped by her dad... so she found women to be comforting to her... she knows it is a psycological problem she has... she admits that... so with that said... there are many reasons why animals might do gay acts on eachother...
as far as my comment on the earth being flat... that is what science was so sure of... but information for you... science is proved wrong every day...
with that in mind... how can we be so sure that science can put an accurate age on the earth... they can't even tell you how old the cheeseburger is you just bought at the McD's drivethu...
here are some examples of Bible prophecy... http://www.100prophecies.org/

 

[Mr. dB]

Science wasn't wrong in assuming the world is flat. That's the essence of the scientific method. You first hypothesize and come up with a theory, i.e., the earth is flat, then you test it to find out whether or not it holds in order to get to the truth. In this case, the theory was wrong, but not science, the whole process of science is what led us to the discovery that the earth is actually round.

Did "science" ever state that the world was flat?

Speaking of science vs. the church, what about poor old Copernicus?

 

[theprofessor]

He is using that as an example of how science can be wrong and the Bible right. He is implying that "science" once claimed that the world was flat.

i never said science being wrong makes the Bible right... only ...it makes it possible...

 

[theprofessor]

Did "science" ever state that the world was flat?

Speaking of science vs. the church, what about poor old Copernicus?

it isnt a matter of science vs. the church at all... by any means...
it is science vs. science and the fact that people do make mistakes and i highly doubt they are able to give a reasonable date on the age of the earth... science can be wrong... and that leaves possibilities...

 

[krishna]

i never once said being gay is a diesease... dont put words in my mouth... i said its possible through abuse... mentaly or physicaly... my wife's aunt is gay because she was raped by her dad... so she found women to be comforting to her... she knows it is a psycological problem she has... she admits that... so with that said... there are many reasons why animals might do gay acts on eachother...
as far as my comment on the earth being flat... that is what science was so sure of... but information for you... science is proved wrong every day...
with that in mind... how can we be so sure that science can put an accurate age on the earth... they can't even tell you how old the cheeseburger is you just bought at the McD's drivethu...
here are some examples of Bible prophecy... http://www.100prophecies.org/

Ok you said it was a sickness. Not much of a difference there; it still has the same impact.

 

[theprofessor]

Ok you said it was a sickness. Not much of a difference there; it still has the same impact.

wrong again... i said "could be" and i provided a situation where this occured...
and i did not say sickness as in disease.... read my post...
it states "sickness, mentaly".... refering to mental illness...

 

[krishna]

I prophesy that I will go to school tomorrow and take a shower. I prophesy that the war between america and iraq will one day end. I prophesy that the temperature will be over 100 F somewhere in the world tomorrow. Once all these come true, you will see how I am a brilliant prophet. If I made a million prophesies, and 100 of them came true, guess which ones everyone would remember..... probably the ones that came true. I'm sure there were countless predictions back then, non of which came true. Some do come true under certain interpretations, but that's true today too, and for any period in time for that matter. I can write a book recording only my predictions that came true, but that wouldn't make it some god inspired, divine doctrine.

 

[krishna]

wrong again... i said "could be" and i provided a situation where this occured...
and i did not say sickness as in disease.... read my post...
it states "sickness, mentaly".... refering to mental illness...

I'm a psychology major. Mental illness is classified as disease. Again, has the same impact. Quit backtracking. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean disease, sickness is just as bad.

 

[gjohnson5]

gjohnson 3:16 SAYS I Bitch Slapped you

 

[theprofessor]

I prophesy that I will go to school tomorrow and take a shower. I prophesy that the war between america and the iraq will one day end. I prophesy that the temperature will be over 100 F somewhere in the world tomorrow. Once all these come true, you will see how I am a brilliant prophet. If I made a million prophesies, and 100 of them came true, guess which ones everyone would remember..... probably the ones that came true. I'm sure there were countless predictions back then, non of which came true. Some do come true under certain interpretations, but that's true today too, and for any period in time for that matter. I can write a book recording only my predictions that came true, but that wouldn't make it some god inspired, divine doctrine.

damn dude... you should start a cult then i guess...
but the Bible was written a long time ago... and there realy arent a lot of prophecies that havnt come to pass... and who's to say those wont be...
the Bible dosent have a million prophecies in the Old Testament... a very good percentage of them have came to be... and the others are still possible...
and more importantly... the prophecy's werent about what they would do the next day... that would obviously come true because they are in control of themselves...
it is prophecy because they have no ties to the future that they fortell... they have no control over it... you on the other hand... can decide for yourself if you want to take a shower...

 

[krishna]

damn dude... you should start a cult then i guess...
but the Bible was written a long time ago... and there realy arent a lot of prophecies that havnt come to pass... and who's to say those wont be...
the Bible dosent have a million prophecies in the Old Testament... a very good percentage of them have came to be... and the others are still possible...
and more importantly... the prophecy's werent about what they would do the next day... that would obviously come true because they are in control of themselves...
it is prophecy because they have no ties to the future that they fortell... they have no control over it... you on the other hand... can decide for yourself if you want to take a shower...

But I can't control the temperature or the war in iraq. If you're going to address my statement, don't leave things out that that suggest I'm only speaking a certain way.

 

[Lestat]

so christians think that homosexuality is a mental illness?? wtf

I don't like strawberries, its a matter of taste and personal preference, yet I can't force myself to like them. is that a mental illness too?

 

[theprofessor]

I'm a psychology major. Mental illness is classified as disease. Again, has the same impact. Quit backtracking. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean disease, sickness is just as bad.

good for you... but i provided an example for you...
do you not agree with that? care to tell my wife's aunt that she isnt gay because she had a father that raped and beat her... its just because she was born that way...
this is so off-topic and beside the point...
this is not backtracking by me... you are the one nit picking...
no offense to you... but being a psycology major means nothing to me... my dad has a degree in psychology and he'll be the first to tell you that dont mean shit (his degree dont realy mean shit either i should say)...

 

[theprofessor]

But I can't control the temperature or the war in iraq. If you're going to address my statement, don't leave things out that that suggest I'm only speaking a certain way.

no ...but you do know the current trend for the weather... THERE IS NO DIFFICULTY IN YOUR PREDICTION... get over yourself...
i said NO TIES...

 

[gjohnson5]

Did "science" ever state that the world was flat?

Speaking of science vs. the church, what about poor old Copernicus?

Mr DB makes a good point here. The world was assumed flat by self centered humans who though the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

Krishna is right that scientific method proved this wrong.

 

[theprofessor]

I prophesy that I will go to school tomorrow and take a shower. I prophesy that the war between america and iraq will one day end. I prophesy that the temperature will be over 100 F somewhere in the world tomorrow. .

also...
your prophecy on iran and iraq in a war is under the condition that you know those two countries are currently at war...
so of course it will come to end... there is no prophecy there...
now if 2000 years ago you prophecied the start of a war and its duration etc... then you might be on to somthing...

 

[krishna]

also...
your prophecy on iran and iraq in a war is under the condition that you know those two countries are currently at war...
so of course it will come to end... there is no prophecy there...
now if 2000 years ago you prophecied the start of a war and its duration etc... then you might be on to somthing...

And what exactly are you referring to? If you cannot give me an example then I will have to assume that you are making it all up. I predict that within the next 2000 years, there will be a great war between two empires. There, now I am truely a prophet when this happens.

 

[Lestat]

And what exactly are you referring to? If you cannot give me an example then I will have to assume that you are making it all up. I predict that within the next 2000 years, there will be a great war between two empires. There, now I am truely a prophet when this happens.

i predict that within the next 100 years there will be a devastating natural disaster!

 

[krishna]

i predict that within the next 100 years there will be a devastating natural disaster!

You are a prophet sent from god.

 

[Lestat]

You are a prophet sent from god.

I predic that you will find some extreme sadness in your life, followed by blissful happiness. go and be well my brother!

 

[theprofessor]

Mr DB makes a good point here. The world was assumed flat by self centered humans who though the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

Krishna is right that scientific method proved this wrong.

ok.. i picked the wrong example...
all im trying to say is science has been proven wrong...
just that it is possible for science to be wrong...

 

[krishna]

ok.. i picked the wrong example...
all im trying to say is science has been proven wrong...
just that it is possible for science to be wrong...

Theories have been proven wrong, not science. Science is simply a method of application.

 

[theprofessor]

And what exactly are you referring to? If you cannot give me an example then I will have to assume that you are making it all up. I predict that within the next 2000 years, there will be a great war between two empires. There, now I am truely a prophet when this happens.

i didnt refer to anything...
i only showed you how your "prophecy" is bullshit... because it has ties to current events that you know about...

ive had enough of this...

time to hit the gym...

if it makes you happy.... you win...
it dosnt bother me what you think...

 

[theprofessor]

Theories have been proven wrong, not science. Science is simply a method of application.

seriously... why be a smart ass... you know what im trying to say...

 

[JonPee]

So what you are trying to tell me is that because I list sea animals and then birds, you insist that I am only saying birds were first? This is getting incredibly dumb.

No, Retard, it does not say "Sea Animals and then birds", it says "Sea Animals AND birds" meaning both. It is not implied at all that sea animals came first, but that they both came at the same time. Sorry to break it to you, but birds came A LONG F'ing time after sea animals

You didn't care to mention Genus, just species. Heck, you even skipped THE REST of the filing tree. A unique creature is just that. Is a zebra just like a man? Is a sparrow just like an eagle? All are unique creatures. No UNIQUE CREATURES were created after man. How is that so tough?

Wait, if you don't believe in evolution then how can you even believe in taxonomy (or filin' chart as you decided to call it)? To believe it means you believe species to be related to one another and diverged through evolution. And are you saying creatures are still being created by evolution, just not unique ones? You really dug yourself a whole here..

First, there is no code.

Thanks for the ground breaking announcement, Genius.

Second, any one of those points has no vagueness to it. They CLEARLY say what they say and can be taken no other way. -And they had the knowledge thousands of years in advance.

Those are VERY FEW examples in over 1000 pages that kind of sound right. And if they new everything back then, then why was Galileo threatened with torture if he didn't take back his claim that the earth revolves around the sun? Certainly they should have known it was true from their divine knowledge

-Ummm......Up to 30000 years? Did you miss a few of those things on that list?

I saw where you gave a different number, but it is in fact around 30,000. Just because you pulled a number out of your ass doesn't mean I have to accept it as fact.

I DID mention DNA chains. I assume you either missed that or didn't want to face that which proves you wrong.

Maybe I didn't mention it because I didn't care? What does that have to do with K/Ar dating?

When evolution says that if you need it to survivive, you will get it and when you do not use it, you lose it, I think I understand it pretty well.

Thank you for this quote as it proves you don't understand evolution AT ALL. First, needing something to survive DOES NOT mean you will get it. That's why 99% of all species that have ever lived are extinct. Second, if you do not use something then there is no reason you would lose it unless it is somehow detrimental to your ability to reproduce viable offspring (NOT survive like you claimed, survival is only a means to and end)

I don't see anything you have posted as evidence against ANY ONE POINT I posted, and you can't even read anything I post all the way through. I have to accept this means that you have nothing for evidence to prove your point.

What are you talking about? I've posted plenty of evidence against many of your points. One of your original points was that plants were responsible for the O2 levels on earth, then I explained to you how you were wrong and Cyanobacteria was responsible for it and you then claimed that you never said plants were responsible for the O2. If you're going to play games like that then I guess I'll never be able to prove any one point wrong.

 

[Subzeero]

kudos to lestat for his courage to express what is to him; the truth. I hope everyone in the world some day is searching and studying to come to a conclusion like this.

There is no conventional God, and all religions are full of shit. All mean to control. All rob individuals off their freedom. All religions degrade humans to animals. All are corrupt and all are untrue.

Proving one wrong and another right, and then getting into meticulous details is just a waste of time. Do yourselves a favour and take responsibility for everything that happens in your vacinity in this objective real world.

 

[Lestat]

kudos to lestat for his courage to express what is to him; the truth. I hope everyone in the world some day is searching and studying to come to a conclusion like this.

There is no conventional God, and all religions are full of shit. All mean to control. All rob individuals off their freedom. All religions degrade humans to animals. All are corrupt and all are untrue.

Proving one wrong and another right, and then getting into meticulous details is just a waste of time. Do yourselves a favour and take responsibility for everything that happens in your vacinity in this objective real world.

excellent post. short but to the point and full of facts.

 

[gjohnson5]

Lestat , you're turning softer then wet toilet paper.

BRR should force you to take that shit out of your signature

 

[Lestat]

Lestat , you're turning softer then wet toilet paper.

BRR should force you to take that shit out of your signature

im soft because I post up shit that I know is going to get a bunch of jesus lovers gang raping me?

 

[gjohnson5]

im soft because I post up shit that I know is going to get a bunch of jesus lovers gang raping me?

You really are coming out of the closet aren't you???

 

[Lestat]

You really are coming out of the closet aren't you???

i never said I enjoyed it bro