Example of how Bibllical History is contrived (made up)

[krishna]

Ok let's start very basic. This first argument is for the existence of God. It doesn't necessarily claim that the existence of God is of any particular religion, but it's a good starting ground to establish first and foremost that God exists. After we've established this, we'll move into more specific arguments of theology.

Argument: There had to be a beginning - a first cause. Even if evolution is true, what caused the first organism/organisms that everything evolved from? It is absurd and illogical to say that they just came into being on thier own. Every effect has a cause. In this case, evolution would favor a creator because if everything was traced back to the simplest forms of life, there had to be a point where it can't get any simpler, and you can't trace it back any further. This would abolish the idea that there is an infinite series of causes (one argument used to try and disprove creation). So if there was a first cause, there had to be something that caused it, and that something logically has to exist outside the chain of events of cause and effect. And in order for that to be logically true, this creator would have to be infinite in time and space unless you want to regress to the argument that the creator just came into being out of nowhere with no cause. That argument, of course, is illogical because if its invalidity.

 

[Frisky]

I apologize to any I have offended personally. I appreciate everyone's input here, life is all about learning. Thank you to everyone for keeping this thread on topic and mostly civil

You didn't offend me at all, there were pleanty of points in this thread that I believe and some that I don't. I converted to christianity recently, I don't agree with everything. I do however enjoy learning the bible and the church I attend is very good at teaching. HOWEVER, I am still my own person and still find my interpretation or what I actually feel is fact or fiction differs from the next.

Hell, maybe I'm not christian!

You would be surprised at how many heated conversations I've had with my own mother because I didn't believe in certain things. She is a hard core christian, I am not. I've attended many of churches of many religion. My kids attend christian church and classes but I tell them every day that GOD loves all, no matter what religion.

I'm still learning, I don't ever say that I know everything... and doubt I ever will.

 

[krishna]

Ok most of the philosophical debate is for the existence of God. I'm not quite sure if there is any logical way to prove that christianity is the only way. I have one that will show that Jesus is the son of God:

Premise 1: Jesus existed
Premise 2: What Jesus said is true
Premise 3: Jesus said we are ALL sons and daughters of God
Conclusion: Since Jesus existed, and what he said is true, then he is the son of God because he said we are ALL sons and daughters of God, and he is surely included in ALL.

I know this isn't what the christians are looking for, but you can't deny its validity. You can't prove it's sound unless you can prove that all the premises are true, but the conclusion does logically follow from the premises. Christians will not like the fact that this does not seperate Jesus from the rest of us. But if you believe in Jesus and what he said, how can you deny this argument? Jesus didn't come to seperate, he came to unite people in God. So why then would christians feel the need to be set apart from other religions? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Nonetheless, this is an argument for the fact that Jesus is the son of God. If Jesus is a son of God, then he is also the son of God. If I am a son of my dad, I am also the son of my dad. When the people began to worship Jesus as god, he would refer to himself as "the son of man" so they wouldn't error in their ways. If I am a son of God (which Jesus said I was) then I am also the son of God. The part of the bible where it says God gave his only son to die for us was 1) written by man, 2) was not spoken by Jesus himself, and 3) contradicts what Jesus actually said. You be the judge.

 

[theprofessor]

Ok most of the philosophical debate is for the existence of God. I'm not quite sure if there is any logical way to prove that christianity is the only way. I have one that will show that Jesus is the son of God:

Premise 1: Jesus existed
Premise 2: What Jesus said is true
Premise 3: Jesus said we are ALL sons and daughters of God
Conclusion: Since Jesus existed, and what he said is true, then he is the son of God because he said we are ALL sons and daughters of God, and he is surely included in ALL.

I know this isn't what the christians are looking for, but you can't deny its validity. You can't prove it's sound unless you can prove that all the premises are true, but the conclusion does logically follow from the premises. Christians will not like the fact that this does not seperate Jesus from the rest of us. But if you believe in Jesus and what he said, how can you deny this argument? Jesus didn't come to seperate, he came to unite people in God. So why then would christians feel the need to be set apart from other religions? Makes you wonder doesn't it? Nonetheless, this is an argument for the fact that Jesus is the son of God. If Jesus is a son of God, then he is also the son of God. If I am a son of my dad, I am also the son of my dad. When the people began to worship Jesus as god, he would refer to himself as "the son of man" so they wouldn't error in their ways. If I am a son of God (which Jesus said I was) then I am also the son of God. The part of the bible where it says God gave his only son to die for us was 1) written by man, 2) was not spoken by Jesus himself, and 3) contradicts what Jesus actually said. You be the judge.

this is what i was trying to get at by asking for the logical arguments...
yes... logic that God exists is very valid... but "God existing" is not realy a religeon...
so like the other post said above... logic is not realy a part of religeon...
especialy if you have to base it off premises...

 

[mkazzbmf]

And always remember......

WITH JEWS.......YOU LOSE!

J/K.....well kinda


Kaz

 

[BigRupe]

If you only beleive what your eyes can see then I guess you believe Criss Angel actually makes animals disappear and that he can saw people in half.

Do you believe in DNA, ATOMS, MOLECULES, VIRUSES? You cant see them so I guess you don't believe in them.


As to your Y chronomosome comments. Please look up the word IN-VITRO or brush up on your sex education.

I NEVER used the word parthenogenesis.

you said it, not me. I simply do not believe that Eve was created that way. I believe in what my eyes can see and that is the archeological proof of evolution. Virgin, you say? One problem is that in parthenogenesis, where a female gives birth without the intervention of the male, the child must be female also since the mother has no Y chromosome to pass on to a male offspring. The Virgin Birth violates a materialist philosophy and science based on it.

also, different translations thranslate it in different way. There is a virgin and there is a young woman. BIG difference



of course, every prophecy is doubted upon and that is common knowledge, nothing new here. Nobody believed Nostradamus either, until something happened and then people make it into a fullfilment



there is - you



and you are sure its true - why? Oh, wait, cuz a book said so.



funny you mention this, cuz birds falling off froma sky is really a miracle that happens even today. The damn birds are tired from flying on their migration route and have to make a stop for food and water. Merely exhousted, you can pick them as if they were a tomatoe. Miracle indeed.



you answered your own question - they will think we are Gods, but we are NOT



lol....that was just too funny

[/QUOTE]

 

[digger]

Proverbs 26:19
A madman who casts firebrands, arrows, and death; such is the man that deceives his neighbors, and then says "I was only kidding!"

 

[biteme]

These threads come around every month or so and always get many, many replies. I'm very observant. God still hasn't shown up to settle the argument.

 

[foreigngirl]

If you only beleive what your eyes can see then I guess you believe Criss Angel actually makes animals disappear and that he can saw people in half.

Do you believe in DNA, ATOMS, MOLECULES, VIRUSES? You cant see them so I guess you don't believe in them.


As to your Y chronomosome comments. Please look up the word IN-VITRO or brush up on your sex education.

I NEVER used the word parthenogenesis.

[/QUOTE]
If you believe in DNA and atoms and moleculs, then you wouldnt be so blind on your outlook of religion (blind).

Oh, and the Chris Angel thing, try applying that to Jesus too, the raising of dead, healing the blind etc...when you are talking stupid anyways

 

[krishna]

this is what i was trying to get at by asking for the logical arguments...
yes... logic that God exists is very valid... but "God existing" is not realy a religeon...
so like the other post said above... logic is not realy a part of religeon...
especialy if you have to base it off premises...

All logic is based off of premises. You can make any lame argument valid with stupid premises, even ones for christianity. I'll throw a few down for you when I come up with them. The only problem is that one would have to believe the premises.