Example of how Bibllical History is contrived (made up)

[krishna]

Right you are megamania500. Jesus was against the church, and came to overthrow the hypocricy. Too bad man started it right back up again with the christian church. And you are right. Since when did loving god and your neighbor mean judge and condemn others who are not christians?

 

[Wulfgar]

Religion, mysticism, Ouji boards, astrology, etc are all part of the Astral Carnival.
They are a bastardization of spirituality. The reason being is that they promote DEPENDANCY. Spiritual enlightenment is becoming free from these things and gaining clairity by removing the sheaths of identity that entrap us all.

 

[Lestat]

im saying YOU DONT KNOW WHAT I FELT... what is hard to understand about that...
i never said your experience is bullshit... i said the argument is...
all you have done to argue is twist what i say...
where did i mention ANYTHING about drugs either??? i believe the other poster said he NEVER used drugs as well... so quote us or shut up...
there is no physical 'proof' that we can show you... that is why it is faith based... but just because you felt some feeling... dont assume that is what we have... because you are not me... and you have not experienced the same as what i have... because if you had... you would not doubt the Lord...

well what if I told you I felt the power of god too, but it wasn't jesus. would you believe me?

 

[Smurfy]

I believe that those who believe in the Bible don't necessarily arrive at their beliefs in the same way. Some may have been taught it at an early age, and just carry their "religion" into adulthood. Others, however, have fallen down in their lives due to some cause such as drugs, booze, a life of crime, or whatever. Many of these people have turned their lives around only because they found salvation with God. For them, being "saved" was their only way out of their despair. Many of them have tried everything else, even other religions. It is with these people that you will NEVER convince that God doesn't exist.
Sure, anyone can "experience the moment" at a ceremony, or get engrossed in the intensity during services. But there are those people who have hit rock bottom and felt despair and hopeless, and felt God touch their heart and change them from the inside out. Many of these people forgot how to love someone else, many have been obsessed with anger or hatred, or have lived a live of debauchery for so long that they felt that they no longer had any value as a person. The power of God filled a void in their hearts where nothing else (drugs, money, women, fame, power, other religions, booze, etc...) could. Its these people who believe when the Bible says, "Jesus died for the ungodly", it was meant for them.
Its these people who will say, "I KNOW that God exists, because He touched my heart and turned my life around". Then you will have the others who will say, "I know he DOESN'T exist, because he hasn't done shit for me and the world is in turmoil". And then you will get those who will say, "I'm a religious person. Its all about following the rules of my religion".
Well, when it comes to the Bible, who was against organized religion? Jesus was. The mormons coming to your door and trying to predict prophecys. The catholics confessing sins to a priest. The jehovahs witnesses, and the rest of them that proclaim that its THEIR way or no way, Jesus was against ALL of that! Despite what the religious zealots want you and their followers to believe, here's what Jesus said about the subject:

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

He replied, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?"

He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." (Luke 10:25-28)

It doesn't say a thing about persecuting others, hating those who don't share your beliefs, telling others that they are "wrong", feeling superior over others because your "saved" and they are not, killing in the name of "God", forcing your beliefs on others, oppressing, or all the other bullshit that people have done throughout history in the name of religion or "God".
So what does the Bible say about "religion"? "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” In other words, as I see it, "provide for others who cannot provide for themselves, and don't get caught up in things like booze, drugs, debauchery, perversions, crime, etc..."

So when you get on a forum such as this one and question people's sanity in having the same beliefs as the woman who went on CNN and talked about hating and killing homosexuals, the same beliefs as a president who believes that "God" told him to go to war, the same beliefs that a priest who molests children has, the same beliefs as someone who comes to your door to tell you that your going to hell if you don't practice the same religion he does, the same beliefs as someone who doesn't give their kid medical attention because its against their "religion", the same beliefs as an evangelist who rakes in millions a year in donations from preaching the "gospel", maybe you should instead question whats in that person's heart.

Because when it comes right down to it, despite the people's actions in the name of "God" throughout history, all the Bible says is to be good in your heart. I don't care if someone is muslim, christian, jewish, athiest, buddist, or worships a statue of Joe Pesci, if he's genuinly kindhearted, he's OK in my book.

Agreed.

 

[theprofessor]

well what if I told you I felt the power of god too, but it wasn't jesus. would you believe me?

i'd tell you the devil is misleading you...
id believe you had some type of experience though....

 

[bignate73]

Spiritual enlightenment is becoming free from these things and gaining clairity by removing the sheaths of identity that entrap us all.

you are wulfgar but you are not....wulfgar.

 

[Lestat]

i'd tell you the devil is misleading you...
id believe you had some type of experience though....

so what if I said you were the one being mislead? what gives my claim any more creedence then yours?

 

[bignate73]

Lestat, its a circular argument. if one says that they felt the spirit and said spirit is backed by a book that was written by man, guided by God...um....its back to the same thing. Who is to say it was God who guided then? its arguing an ethereal moved them to write scriptures that define said ethereal.

 

[theprofessor]

so what if I said you were the one being mislead? what gives my claim any more creedence then yours?

like you said before... and im not twisting what you say like you do to me...

"bro I've felt the same exact way..... at a concert, or good play, or during great sex and yes, I've felt it at religious ceremony, of MORE THAN ONE faith! That is what proved it to me, that I could get the feeling in more than just the traditional Christian way, and others could too. Something's fishy don't you tihnk? You must question it yourself, any intelligent being would."

with that said... id say your experience sounds more like anxiety to me... unless you think your god touched you during sex... or at the play
you're telling me that beyond a doubt that those experiences were from some god?

your claim is that... just a claim... no proof
same goes for me
Christianity is faith based, and once again... you will either accept it... or you wont...

 

[Lestat]

like you said before... and im not twisting what you say like you do to me...

"bro I've felt the same exact way..... at a concert, or good play, or during great sex and yes, I've felt it at religious ceremony, of MORE THAN ONE faith! That is what proved it to me, that I could get the feeling in more than just the traditional Christian way, and others could too. Something's fishy don't you tihnk? You must question it yourself, any intelligent being would."

with that said... id say your experience sounds more like anxiety to me... unless you think your god touched you during sex... or at the play
you're telling me that beyond a doubt that those experiences were from some god?

your claim is that... just a claim... no proof
same goes for me
Christianity is faith based, and once again... you will either accept it... or you wont...

well at least you are starting to see my perspective.

anything you can say about my experiences, I can say about yours. You describe your experience in church, i say its anxiety as well. are you telling me beyond a dobut that those expereinces came from god?

this was the line of thinking that ultimately led me away from the church, because as I have said many times on here, I was once a devout and fervent believer. I went on missions to mexico to witness and help poor. I went to church 3 days a week, I was actively invovled in my church and youth group. I'd argue with non believers just as you argue with me and once I got tired of it or frustrated i'd just say that satan must have gotten to them and I can't do anything to fight his power.

but the difference is, when I look back on those days, I see a naieve boy who was simple deluded by a combination of parental authority and the yearning to be a part of something that everyone around me placed such importance on.

I couldn't keep the blinders on forever though, I eventually met and developed close relationships with people of different faiths. I realized they were no different than me! They believed in different gods, ceremonies, and rules that they lived their life by and they would argue equally as fervently towards those ends, sometimes even more than I would.

I realized that no merciful and just god would turn people lose like this on each other armed with nothing more but "faith" which doesn't really go far in this world. And god supposedly created this world right? You'd think he'd make things a tiny bit more clear! At least he directly told adam and eve, "don't eat from that tree" that is what i call a personal relationship with god. Do I have that? no. have I tried? yes. Do I believe it exists as a possibility for myself or anyone else for that matter, no. Do I understand WHY so many people want it so badly they are willing to overrule rational though and in some cases kill for it, yes.