EQ and 1-test

[jay12]

Biotest is not the only company. Seriously, besides Bill's Molecular Nutrition line, when it comes to PHs no one is doing anything original or their own R&D. Everyone is just waiting to see what Ergo is going to release or picks up the scraps that they don't and try to put some kind of marketing twist on it. I know PA has said that he hopes to have something new ready for release in the spring and that he has said as far as prohormones go that 1-AD is really the limit as they are covered in the current legislation. So about a month or so after his new release I'm sure we'll be reading about a 'revolutionary' non-hormonal product that Biotest is pioneering over at T-mag . Good luck, Jay

 

[pa1ad]

Are gains site specific w/transdermals? Meaning, if I apply Androspray to my legs and do a full body workout (working all body parts equally) will I notice better gains in my legs (since thats where the transdermal was applied)? Or do you absorb the substance and it works its way into your bloodstream and it is used throughout the body?

FHG

they are not site specific

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you PA...

LOL. I know it's not really funny though. In your defense, the Biotest guys really screwed you. They bashed 1-AD, then they come out with a product that's got the active hormone in it. This is the same product that they claimed to be working on for the last couple of years. Then poof, they scratch their original plans and incorporate 1-Test, or A1E, ha ha.

Pat, why did you not try and patent 1-Test in it's different delivery methods? I assume you cannot patent a hormone, but I know the Biotest guys have patented their delivery method. In fact, I don't understand how these other "esterfied" and "ether" products can pass the 'unobviousness' test for patentability.

they have applied for a patent, thats all. anyone can apply for a patent on anything, you just pay a fee. Surely it will not be accepted.

 

[OVRTrainer]

pa1ad...

they have applied for a patent, thats all. anyone can apply for a patent on anything, you just pay a fee. Surely it will not be accepted.

Yes, I was especially interested as I am a law student and I have just completed a course on patent law. It seems to me that even if Biotest was able to patent their delivery method, which they claim they have, unless these other companies paid them for a license, Biotest would have an infringement action. If they have only filed a patent application, there is a possibility that their product will not be found to be unobvious over the prior art (1-AD)depending on their claims and specifications. I won't get into the whole test for patentability, but I'd love to know how this works.

 

[pa1ad]

they claim patents on their esters, not the raw 1-test. they cannot patent 1-test. they have no patents on the esters, check USPTO.gov

this is all really silly to even discusss cuz they have no patents, nor will they ever on esters of a steroid discovered 30 years ago. esterification of a drug to make a pro drug is not a new discovery

 

[Big Cat HH]

People are spraying on 400 to 800mg of 4-AD a day. So if ten percent gets through into the system you are getting 40-80 mg of 4-AD a day.

40-80 mg of a steroid a day is alot of steroid. 4-AD does not have to be super potent to have a discernable effect at this daily dosage.

Except only 15% of that 40-80 mg gets converted to test. Who ever got big on 6-12 mg of test a day ? And there is no evidence to suggest 4AD has anabolic activity of its own.

I think that absorption of a good transdermal is closer to 20-25% rather than 10-20%. In any case, 1AD and logically 1-test possess about 14% oral availability, so in the best case, a decent transdermal would still be a better choice over an oral. Unless I'm missing something. And as PA knows, I have been known to miss a few things

 

[Par Deus]

Except only 15% of that 40-80 mg gets converted to test. Who ever got big on 6-12 mg of test a day ? And there is no evidence to suggest 4AD has anabolic activity of its own.

There is definitely anecdotal evidence to suggest it either has activity on its own or it acts as an anti-estrogen -- Because the anabolic activity per unit water retention is much higher than with testosterone.

 

[notpuff]

PA did find literature that foudn 4ad to have anabolic activity on its own

 

[pa1ad]

Except only 15% of that 40-80 mg gets converted to test. Who ever got big on 6-12 mg of test a day ? And there is no evidence to suggest 4AD has anabolic activity of its own.

I think that absorption of a good transdermal is closer to 20-25% rather than 10-20%. In any case, 1AD and logically 1-test possess about 14% oral availability, so in the best case, a decent transdermal would still be a better choice over an oral. Unless I'm missing something. And as PA knows, I have been known to miss a few things

I think you are missing alot of knowledge in this area and you make incorrect deductions from what facts you do know. The in-vitro blood study showing 15% conversion really means little in regards to what activity the 4-AD has in the body. It disregards conversion at target tissues and intrinsic activity. The assays of 4-AD done on rats showing high activity tends to suggest that things are going on with the compound that are not obviously apparent from simple testosterone conversion in the blood.

Your determination of 14% bioavailablity from urinary excretion studies also displays ignorance of pharmacology on your part. What shows up in the urine is not what determines bioavailablity, rather, it is the percentage of compound which makes it to the blood. What shows up in the urine is often completely irrelevant to bioavailablity

You may also want to think that a good transdermal delivers alot of steroid, but unless you can offer some evidence of that beyond telling us that your delts swelled up then please stick to what the scientific literature tells us

so back to the books Big Cat

 

[pa1ad]

PA did find literature that foudn 4ad to have anabolic activity on its own

That is not how the literature should be interpreted. It did demonstrate that 4-AD had high biological activity, however there is no way to know if it acts directly at the receptor or whether it acts as a prohormone only, or combination of both. Although blood studies only show 15% conversion, conversion at target tissues may be very high.