Eca???

[Temple]

I talked to Spats about this last night but wanted to throw this one out to the board as well as perhaps there is something else going on here that needs to be taken care of. My son is 20, has been seriously weight training for 4 years. He works construction and does a good bit of roller blading so he is cardiovascularly in good shape. We have talked about gear and I am pretty certain he isn't on any. He has been using a good bit of ephedra in an ECA stack preworkout for quite some time. He started working with a trainer a couple of weeks ago that really jacked the intensity of his workouts,

He called last night and said that he had a throbbing headache. Apparently the last three times he has gone to the gym he gets about half way thru and will be in the middle of a set and he says that it feels like someone hits him in the back of the head with a baseball bat and the pain is so intense that he has to stop. It continues for several hours after he gets home. Other than working out he is not having them. He is good about water so I don't think it is dehydration - he said he was drinking as much as he could hold last night trying to get rid of it.

My first thought is that this is a blood pressure related headache from the eca. Do you have any other ideas? I personally have issues with ephedra - think you might as well get some speed as IMO it is the same thing so maybe I am overreacting a bit.

 

[MS]

The simple way to find out is to have him stop taking the ECA. I know, his workouts will suck for a week or two while he detoxs, but if I was getting headaches like that, I would be motivated to stop taking everything until I found out what it was. If the headaches go away he can gradually re introduce the caffeine and ephedrine one at a time, but I agree with ya that taking ECA just to get through a workout is a bad idea. It's a dependancy, but I know a lot of BBs that are hooked on the stuff, so this may be easier said than done. Other than that, is his pre workout nutrition OK???

 

[Temple]

Thanks MS - I think that is the decision that we made last night. I think he was a little scared when he called me but it had never occured to him that it could be the ECA. Nutritionally I think he is fine - he always was a clean eater even as a child. The only kid I ever knew that would choose fruit over candy. I honestly have not talked to him one time in the last year that he wasn't eating or cooking. He is coming home for Easter and I will be doing food prep starting on Wednesday. It is absolutely unbelievable the amount of food that boy can put away!!!!!

From a pharmacological(?) standpoint is there a substantial difference in ephedra and speed? I used a good bit of speed in my younger years and I sure don't see a whole lot of difference in the way that they feel.

 

[MS]

Ephedrine and amphetamine are very similar both structurally and pharmacologically. Ephedra containing products are more of a mixed bag both in terms of their alkaloid mixtures and pharmacology, as well as their purity and potency.

 

[wilson6]

Before you blame the ECA, while it could be ECA related, it could also be a breathing problem. In general, inhale during the pliometric phase of the movement and exhale during the miometric. I have clients that get these headaches. They are called in simple terms, a weightlifters headache. Very painful, can last for days and recur with little provocation and are caused by improper breathing during the set. Most often happens on leg press.

He should be checked out by a sports med doc to make sure there are no underlying vascular conditions, but my bet is he's not breathing correctly while he's lifting and generating very high pulse pressure.

Could also be a synergistic effect of the ECA, more intense lifting and improper breathing.

W6

 

[Temple]

He has never had allergy problems but now that you mention it again Spats (I'm a bit slow sometimes) he an his father have both developed exercise induced asthma. They rented a house that had some huge air quality problems, molds, positive radon test etc. I am passing along everything that is said here.

W6 comment on the breathing may be right on. The one thing that has also changed is that he has started working with a trainer part time and she sounds like one hell of a woman. He says she is about 50 and told him he wasn't nothin' but a "purty boy". Apparently she has dogged hell out of him and this has started since she put more intensity into his training. He is a typical kid - takes several conversations before Mom gets the whole story. See what you have to look forward to Spats.

 

[Temple]

I don't know Spats. The only time he uses ECA is preworkout and only one tab which is more conservative than the way many take it.

 

[chrisoh]

It could very well the ECA, the effects vary among person to person, I know some friends who can barely tolerate even a little of it and begin shaking and get anxiety and high blood pressure from it, it could be whats causing the trauma during workouts, the sudden increase in blood pressure. It's not safe to assume everyone will react the same to ECA, most people I know start jumping off the walls at a normal dose while I have to take 3-4x the normal dose to even feel a little effect and my BP always is normal. That's why they call it the recommended dosage, try telling him to lay off the ECA for a week to see if goes away.

 

[Temple]

Sorry for what Spats???? The only reason I said "I didn't know" is that you're background gives you much better understanding of what is possibly going on than I have.