Does having a trainer make you lazy?

[The Shadow]

On the CNS thread W6 says to train to absolute momentary failure, but now Corn says shy of failure is fine ...

Consider that training for strength is usually best short of failure and size is usually best carried to failure......

I said a rep short of failure most of the time - not all.

btw - "6-8 sets and my quads are toast"

What I said was prolonged training techniques(forced reps negatives etc) at EVERY workout will kill you.

I do around 8 sets for quads and I can't walk without pain for 2 days...I simply go close to failure on the squats and to failure on the other exercises.

I think you are making a huge deal over nothing. If you are feeling good and looking forward to the workouts and are able to increase weight or reps from session to session - then obviously you ARE recovering and ARE training hard enough to promote gains.

End of story.


BTW - I do WILL NOT train a client for more than 8 weeks unless she has unique circumstances as after this period of time they knoe the basics of training nutrition and how to set up their own programs.

If you are still relient on a trainer beyond this period of time...then the trainer IMHO did not do his/her job very well.

 

[The Shadow]

Agreed MS - that was not directed at you in any way.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Hey ... relax, Corn ... I'm not making a huge deal - I was just asking a question. I just wanted to know what other people's experiences are with having a trainer. It's my first time ever to even train with someone who knows what they're doing, so it's all new and fun. I'm only going to be working with her for 8 weeks because I'm leaving the country after that anyway. Then I'm going to do WSB

I'm going to go do a search on failure now, but in the meantime, can you clarify what you mean by failure? Concentric failure?

 

[The Shadow]

Hey ... relax, Corn ... , can you clarify what you mean by failure? Concentric failure?

I'm sorry??

Relax??

Me??

Okay.......

Failure is normally defined to mean concentric failure.......that's why forced reps and negatives are considered intensity techniques

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thank you

That's what I found in my search. OK, so when W6 says absolute momentary failure, he means concentric failure, correct?

This is what I'm going to do: do the intensity techniques with my trainer, maybe not on every session with her ... we'll see how I'm recovering ... and "slack off" when on my own, going almost to failure on some sets and to failure on the rest, no drop sets, forced, etc. And see how I grow ...

What do you think?

 

[The Shadow]

I believe that is what W6 means, yes.

Sounds like a plan Sweets.

Just make sure that when you train with her that you are not hammering the same bodypart(s) past failure time after time...make sure that every bodypart gets some of the intensity stuff in other words

 

[SteelWeaver]

Cool. Thanks. Yeah - I kind of set it up from the beginning so that, with 2 sessions with her per week, I'd be hitting each bodypart with her once every 2 weeks. Some sessions with her are pretty light though - esp. back, because I'm still having trouble getting exact form down for a full contraction in my lats. I think back is going to be my main focus for the next couple of months, while I have her to help.

Think there'd be any point in doing speed sets on the days I don't work with her? Speed sets on the compound moves and the usual 8-10 to failure on assistance type moves? Can one mix it up like this in a single session? Just interested in trying out different stuff at the moment - I don't have any deadlines anymore for a while. Just want to play and learn and see what makes me grow.

 

[The Shadow]

Speed sets are fine as I feel they build explosive strength...I mix WBS and tyraditional BBing at every workout....


Tip on lats:

1 - use an overhand grip whenever possible

2 - when doing seated rows....pinch shoulder baldes together in back before you begin the concentric

3 - have you trainer practice "cupping" or "tracing" on your lats WHILE you are doing the movements - really helps mind/muscle link

4- work entire ROM for lats - ie - pullover movement, chins/pulldowns, stiff-arm pullovers

5 - ROM for midback - rope behind neck pulldowns, one arm rows with elbow at 90 angle to body, bent laterals

 

[SteelWeaver]

Chest UP! Shoulders DOWN! This is her mantra. Shoulders down and back. We spent a long time on lat pull downs the other day, wokring on moving the actual shoulder girdle, thus minimising arm work almost completely. I've had a real problem getting pull downs right because, although I was trying to pull from the lats, I wasn't actually working with my shoulder girdle, and ended up using more delt and arm than I shoiuld have.

Anyway, I've got it down now - I did back this morning on my own, and my god! did I have a PUMP in my back by the time I finished! That's a rare thing - hopefully it'll come more often from now.

"3 - have you trainer practice "cupping" or "tracing" on your lats WHILE you are doing the movements - really helps mind/muscle link"

Yes, she does this, but sometimes it's distracting because I get turned on instead of concentrating properly, lol! I'm really bad at being touched by people I admire or like, heh heh. Whatever, though - it seems to be working.

So pullovers are OK, then - I thought they'd been relegated to the same camp as tricep db kickbacks?

 

[The Shadow]

So pullovers are OK, then - I thought they'd been relegated to the same camp as tricep db kickbacks?

If you want full ROM development in lats and tris you should do both.