DC or 5x5 or other ??

[louden_swain]

Originally posted by louden_swain
Here is what I can't understand.

Why use multiple sets, when you can attack a muscle using one set to failure?

To me the 5 x 5 method does not totally test your total maximum output, once you hit 5 reps you stop, when you may be able to get an additional 2 reps.

For me all non-failure sets are used for warmups at 50-70% of total max.

What will extra sets do for a trainer? When you see 5 x 5, what is it about the 5 sets that will make you grow?

The idea of training is to breakdown muscle so a person can spend time eating and resting. When this happens the muscle will grow and learn how to adapt to the stress.


Well Louden I dont like training to failure, and I feel that failure training is very hard to recover from. Therefore, I will do multiple sets because Im not training at the level of intensity you would be performing by going to failure on one set. And the idea of training under a 5x5 program is progressive load, and in order to do so one tries to stay away from taking any sets to failure. Stopping short of failure is allowing me to add weight to the bar every week. I think that the muscle will grow if it is experiencing an increase in resistance every week, and this is what occurs on a successful 5x5 routine. When I was performing a low volume, failure training program I found that I had a very difficult time adding weight to the bar the following week(s).

This is a reasonable answer. I have tried the 5 x 5 program in the past, but I never felt like I was giving it 110. Using the one set to failure I can recover and add reps and weight to the bar each week. I love the mental and physical challenge that one set to failure provides.

To me, performing 5 sets of 5 reps with the same weight would become boring. I feel that taking a set one set to failure, lets say 8 reps is enough to get me motivated to get 9 reps for the next workout. The excitement never dies, because you are always thinking about that next workout. With 5 x 5, you put a certain weight on the bar the following week, but you may only get 5 5 5 4 3 in reps. Then you have to stay at the same weight for the following week just so you can get 5 5 5 5 5. With one set to failure you can get 9 the following week. In the third week, if you can get only 9 reps, the fourth week you decrease the weight and attempt to get more reps setting a personal record; this may be 11-13 reps. With the 5 x 5 program everything is fixed, so if you have to lower the weight to get 5 x 5, essentially you are not making progress.

 

[casualbb]

I could maybe do more than one day per week on my arms or chest, but would this affect any of my other days?

No it wouldn't. If you feel you could do it, by all means.

-casualbb

 

[BlkWS6]

Louden: I totally agree with regarding the excitement and the intensity of training to failure (specifically DC's program). My training partner and I were truly having a blast pushing each other to the limit and beyond on the program, but unfortunately both of us hit a wall. Im not totally out for the count on DC training. I think I will try it again in the future, when I have more time to dedicate to every aspect of my training, not just the time I spend in the gym. You are right, the 5x5 can get a little dull but mostly if you arent adding weight every week. Although the rep scheme stays constant, putting that extra plate on every week really keeps the motivation and interest high. And if one doesnt successfully get all their 5x5, or just gets downright bored of that rep scheme there are numerous alternatives that are effective and still focus on a progressive load. In fact Im currently doing 4 sets where the first 3 are 5 reps and the last set (4th) is a set of 8 reps. All the principles of the 5x5 apply to this variation, but it is something to "spice up" the monotony of the program and cause some new growth! Thanks for your input Louden.

 

[Toozee]

All of this is great information. Exactly the discussion I was hoping to see.

Concerning the DC diet:

I see 2xbw in protein, 4tbsp of olive oil, and no/trace carbs after 6 or 7pm. I dont really see any other definitive guidelines besides these (unless I missed 'em).
Is there a calorie per day to bw ratio ? Are there any other guidelines for this diet that need to be followed ? What I'm asking is are there any other formulae that can be used to figure certain intakes on this diet. It seems the more customized the diet is for a person (given they know how their body reacts), the closer someone could get to their mass gain/ bf% goal at the end of a bulk.

Just trying to see what I can plug in to the DC diet to get an idea of what the diet may look like, without going in and breaking down the macro nutrients of the example diet.

--Again thanks to ALL for the influx of info.

 

[casualbb]

Here's a pet peeve of mine: Everybody going "DC diet" this, "DC diet that," as if DC invented a high protein, high calorie diet. Good for him for utilizing it, but such a diet idea has existed for a long time. I suspect some of the reputed DC gains can be attributed to finally eating correctly instead of the plan itself.

-casualbb

 

[louden_swain]

Here's a pet peeve of mine: Everybody going "DC diet" this, "DC diet that," as if DC invented a high protein, high calorie diet. Good for him for utilizing it, but such a diet idea has existed for a long time. I suspect some of the reputed DC gains can be attributed to finally eating correctly instead of the plan itself.

-casualbb

You have never even tried the program sonny boy.

 

[gmanlax7]

casualbb is right

i doubt the DC diet is much different from the 5x5 diet or the WSB diet

the basic premise of all diets aimed at putting on muscle/strength is eat a ton of protein and get good fats

do not get hung up on name

 

[Debaser]

There's actually quite a bit more to it than that. In fact I'm writing a handbook on it now, and it's approaching 3 pages worth of info. Obviously some of this could be distilled, but it's much more than just "high protein, high calories"

 

[BlkWS6]

I only brought up the diet, because I was just unable to get near 500g of protein a day and that is a major part of the diet (2x bodyweight in protein) . I never thought the idea was something revolutionary, but according to DC and followers the diet is very crucial to the success of the routine (which obviously makes sense) and I just brought up the point that I just had one hell of a time consuming that much protein and maybe that is why I didnt do so great on the routine. I also questioned the fact that maybe this new exposure to such high amounts of protein that people werent consuming before has led to such big results, but Im sure that an experienced lifter like Louden probably was consuming a lot of protein before DC training and he says he is making gains.

 

[casualbb]

There's actually quite a bit more to it than that. In fact I'm writing a handbook on it now, and it's approaching 3 pages worth of info. Obviously some of this could be distilled, but it's much more than just "high protein, high calories"

Cool, make sure to post it up when you finish, I want to read it. I'll be the first to admit, diet and supplementation is one aspect of training I know the least about.

-casualbb