CLOMID what, why & How

[Zyglamail]

Exactly.

Fonz

Well, lets face it, all meds that increase test levels do so by fooling the system into thinking one or more feedback mechanisms are low and in turn triggers a response. If test is allready low due to comming off cycle I think your going to be in the same boat using any one of them. However, some work better than others for certian people. In the end time is what will restore HPTA.

 

[Ulter]

He has done both actually. He was a nolva-HCG guy until me and some other patients kept bugging him about clomid back in early 2001. So he tested post cycle and then he tested patients who hadn't cycled for the first time yet. He said he did not see an increase in T levels above baseline after the "never cycled" patients used clomid. Of course vast majority of the tests were on post cycle patients. They only got back to normal and didn't have an increase over baseline either. But then that was expected.

 

[nandi12]

He has done both actually

That is very surprising that there was no T increase in the "never cycled" group. That definitely seems to contradict the published literature.

I could understand, and expect, no or minimal increase in T in someone who has just finished a cycle, since the testicular Leydig cells have probably atrophied to the point where they are not capable of producing T in response to clomid.

My understanding of the rationale for using clomid is to prevent rising post cycle estrogen from acting in a negative feedback manner to blunt LH secretion, which would prevent normal Leydig cell recovery. The clomid is not intended to boost testosterone levels immediately, like during a Clomid challenge test in normal people.

So the fact that Dr. Scruggs saw no T increase with clomid post cycle isn't what surprises me, it's his results in normal people.

 

[Zyglamail]

He has done both actually. He was a nolva-HCG guy until me and some other patients kept bugging him about clomid back in early 2001. So he tested post cycle and then he tested patients who hadn't cycled for the first time yet. He said he did not see an increase in T levels above baseline after the "never cycled" patients used clomid. Of course vast majority of the tests were on post cycle patients. They only got back to normal and didn't have an increase over baseline either. But then that was expected.

Out of curiosity, what was the dose of clomid used and at what point in the clomid therapy did he check test levels?

 

[Ulter]

100mg/day, which is his normal prescription, and I had mine on the 14th day. I can't speak for anyone else.

 

[Zyglamail]

100mg/day, which is his normal prescription, and I had mine on the 14th day. I can't speak for anyone else.

LOL, dont ya just love science. DOesnt it figure that something as simple as taking clomid and checking LH and T levels cant even be reported with any consistancy

 

[Ulter]

Yeah how bout it.

Dr Scruggs posted on AF that we are all just jacking off if we think we are going to find any formulas or "rules" that apply to endocrinology because there is just too little known about it. I let the post stand because it was him of course.
He takes each case individually and that's right. He doesn't think much of people like Bill Roberts, Bill Llewellyn, etc who he calls "armchair endocrinologists" because they make statements about what works or doesn't for everyone. And they do it with no worries of liability or recourse.

 

[nandi12]

we are all just jacking off if we think we are going to find any formulas or "rules" that apply to endocrinology because there is just too little known about it.

It's hard to argue with that when you see the variations in the responses of so called normal people when challenged with Clomid: a 30% to 200% increase in testosterone is an awfully large spread. Obviously everyones HPA really is different when it comes to responding to Clomid, and likely so with HCG or Nolvadex as well.

 

[Realgains]

Up !

RG

 

[JP@Ironology]

Just started my clomid today