Cleans for Cubanito

[Cubanito17]

HOLY SHIT thanx alot man I'm printing this out and reading it all day before my meet today. Then i'm going to show it to my coach and see what he says. If he tells me "didn't I tell you to get off the fucking internet and get on my program" again then I'll just do it myself and perfect it myself. I notice one thing already i'm doing wrong is when I come up from the first pull(deadlift) I don't keep my back arched so that might be messing me up.

 

[Arioch]

All right, this post only applies if you have someone who not only knows how to measure everything, but has the means to do so. If not, find a way to appreciate it anyway, as I went to the trouble of typing it in.

Knee angle at start of pull: 80deg - 110deg.
Torso inclined: 32deg.
Hip angle: 92deg - 97deg.

This is for the first picture.

2nd picture:
Leg time to straighten: .5 seconds
Bar should be moving at about 1.15m/s and should be at approximately 52.7cm from the platform.
The bar should have shifted toward you by almost 6.5cm

The rebend phase is not shown. It takes less than 1/5 of a second, and the goal is 1/10 sec.
The knees rebend to 125 – 130deg.
Decrease in speed during rebend to: 1.105 m/s
The shins incline toward the plaform 70-75deg.
The hip angle should be 105 -110deg.
Just following the rebend the bar should accelerate and achieve its maximum speed during the 1st phase.
Maximal acceleration in 1st phase: 1.2 m/s
Height of bar at end of 1st phase: 64.8 cm
During this phase the bar should shift forward about 3 cm.
End of knee shift: 125deg.
Shins incline toward platform: 70deg.
Time of rebend: .15 seconds
Shoulders in front of bar: 5.4 cm

Final acceleration: .1 seconds
Differentials: 1st phase: 1.225m/s
2nd phase: 1.38m
The bar should shift toward you about 3cm
Bar should rise to about 88.4cm

The bar should rise during the squat under by an additional 13.6 cm during the unsupported time.
Unsupported time during squat under: .15 seconds
Amortization: .3 seconds
Bar should rise to highest point of clean: 102 cm
Then desend to 74.8

Rack at top/pelvis tilt: 5.5 cm
Squat: .28 seconds
Squat depth: 62%
Braking: .12 seconds
Braking depth: 38%
Braking begins: 123deg.
Braking ends: 104deg.
Time of squat: 1.646 seconds
Pause before Jerking: .025 seconds
Bar Raised: 27.2cm

Recovery: .19 seconds
Active influence: .16 seconds
Knee at end of acceleration: 145deg.
Maximum velocity: 13 cm above initial height
Average velocity: 1.62 m/s

Squat under/split
Acceptable: shins 80 - 90deg.
Thigh: 20 deg. above parallel
Back Knee: 160 deg.
Torso lowers: 27cm

Ideal:
Front foot shift: shin inclines 10 deg. forward
Torso lowers: 36cm

 

[brianmincher]

Incredible post Arioch. Cubanito you had better listen to him or I will twist you into a pretzel when I run into you at a meet.

the pictures really helped. It is amazing how fast these guys are. I say Tommy Inglsbe in the World's Strongest man, he is a hell of an athlete.

B

 

[Screwball]

Double Damn...

This has to be one of the most incredible posts that I have ever had the pleasure to read. This is awsome stuff. Arioch, you are the man! No offense, "The Mann" (another board members handle). Is your experience primarily in the olympic lifting field? If you have similar knowledge applicable in the powerlifting arena then all board members here need to pick your brain. Awesome knowledge and experience!

- Screwball

 

[Arioch]

Phases of the pull, a slightly different perspective. Most of this is based on “A System of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting,” by Medvedyev.

Most of the previous was based on times and tables taken in some form or another from Roman.

Phase I – Setup. Process has already been discussed. The purpose is to create tension. It is very important not to jerk the bar from the deck. Keep the arms straight.

Phase II – Preliminary Acceleration. This is from the time of barbell separation to the first straightening of the legs. This is where the bar starts to accelerate. This phase ends at the second picture.

Phase III – Amortization/Rebend – This would occur in between pictures two and three. This allows the legs and back to be more fully utilized to further accelerate the bar. Note that the shoulder girdle will be moving vertical during this phase to maintain bar velocity, even though there will be some slight slowing.

Phase IV – Final Acceleration – Picture Three. The purpose of this phase is simple. Pull the bar as high and as hard as possible. The higher it goes, the more time you have to get under it. Simple, No?

Phase V – Squat Under – When squatting under the bar, the goal is to be exerting control on the bar at all times. There will be a point where, after having achieved maximal height, the bar will begin to descend. Do not just let it drop, pull it down into a firmly racked position, which will lead to . . .

Phase VI – Supported Squat Under – Fix the barbell in the front squat position. In theory, there will be a point that the bar is free floating in between phases V and VI. The goal is to minimize this. Just like there is a point where, when you bounce a ball, between descending and ascending, it is motionless for an instant. No one really notices. If someone can see the bar float at all during the last two phases, you are not pulling under it quick enough. See Figure 4.


Phases of the Jerk

Phase I – The Half Squat – This is done as quickly as possible. The elastic reflex is everything. All of the power for the jerk comes from here. Sure, guys like Patera and Redding could press nearly what they could clean, but if you are reading this you are probably not one of them, and I am not the other.

Phase II – This phase begins the instant the barbell achieves its maximum downward velocity. It is known as the braking phase. Once again, speed is the key. Change direction quickly. Ideally this occurs in less than .15 seconds. The objective is to switch from flexing to extending the knees as quickly as possible.

Phase III – This phase lasts until the final extension of the knees occurs. This is where the power is actually transferred from the legs to the barbell. If your arms are capable of generating even one half of the power of your arms, you need to set up camp in the squat rack.

Phase IV – This is when the barbell leaves the fully racked position and the legs are re-arranged beneath you. The entire purpose of this phase is to properly place the feet.

Phase V – This is the completion of the jerk. The purpose here is to firmly fix the barbell overhead. It must be thrust solidly to full extension before the legs are fully set to avoid press-out.

 

[Arioch]

About me.

I started training (OL'ing) in 1972 at age twelve to assist other sports. I was luckier than most in that I lived down the street from a good coach who was willing to work with a smart-ass little punk. He coached me from 1972 until his death in 79. He was the best coach strength wise I have ever had, and some of things he tried to teach me I am still struggling to fully understand today.

I only competed occasionally, first meet in 1977, in the off season. I was a thrower (hammer and discus in both high school and college). I did my first pl type meet in 1981, but it was deadlift only. Pulled tripple bodyweight the first time I ever deadlifted. Advantages of a thrower's build.

After college, began to focus more on lifting, and began to improve more as an athlete, due largely to the fact that I was assistant coaching. As I was told many times by good instructors and coaches, teaching is learning. I did my first full PL meet in 1983. Amazing how not training your bench for the first seven years of your training can hurt your total.

Lifts began to improve some more over the next few years, but did not compete that often due to the demands of family, school, and coaching, but still continued to improve in both OL and PL (my bench even started to look like a bench, even if it only looked like one done by a six year old girl - in addition to a thrower's build, I have a high number of slow twitch fibers in my triceps, and nothing is like making a bad thing worse).

In the very early '90's, spent most of my time focused on powerlifting, as my wife began to compete (she is an elite 105 pound lifter with a triple bodyweight squat and deadlift, and a bench of 155). I just missed totalling elite in my last meet in Nov of 93, and was still improving when I was hurt in an accident in 1994. Bad. I spent the next few years recovering.

My deadlift came back first (surprise), then my squat. Due to shoulder injuries, I have trouble stabilizing a snatch or racking a clean, and those are improving even slower than my bench. I will compete for the first time in eight years and some change before my son goes to college in the fall, and I finally get my elite PL'ing total. (Yes, my son lifts too)

I have an MS in ex phys, and am current employed as adjunct faculty/strength coach.

I personally use the conjugate system, just like nearly everyone else here. I started out training this way as an OL'er, and naturally gravitated toward it as a PL'er.

 

[Cubanito17]

Dude this is truly awesome and thank you soooo much. Believe it or not my cleans went up 10lbs today b/c i read this all day in school today, but I didn't have a meet today. I have a post on here Arioch about my workout it's under "ok i thought it over all..." that one I am training westside but do you think my speed day and ME day for legs will help bring my cleans up if I use that training and I'm gonna print out this whole thread and re-read this everyday until I perfect my cleans. I am pathetic a 185 clean and jerk when i can jerk 225 b/c that's what I work with. Once again thank you.

 

[GRIMMER]

Cubanito, Arioch can probably teach more on your clean/jerk than all of us on this board put together. Forget what i say and listen to this man, it looks like he knows what hes talking about.
Very nice post Arioch.

 

[Arioch]

You will never perfect your cleans. In addition to developing strength, you are learning skill, and there will always be room for improvement.

It is hard to say over the net what will help you, because some of your problems could be caused by a weakness in a particular muscle group, or, more likely, by poor technique. If it is a technique issue, I can not see it from here.

Possible problems/solutions:

Not racking properly at bottom: solution, pull under faster and pull bar higher. Muscle group to strengthen: traps.

Not getting explosion: More than likely technique failure. Strengthen back through rdl's and gm's, squat and front squat for legs, and rdl's should help some with trap strength as you will be doing them with more weight than you clean.

Pull is weak off of the deck. Rare. But if this occurs you could add deadlifts or snatch grip deads, as well as strengthening the hamstrings and erectors (good mornings).

I can not really criticize your workout without knowing a lot more about your problems in the c&j.

Do you stick on the deck?
Do you know how to rebend?
Do you explode on your second pull?

Go over your technique phase by phase, which is why I posted them, and compare what you do with what I wrote, and see where you have trouble. The biggest problem is that I have no idea what your problem is. This is where hands on coaching is a must. I can offer some suggestions, assuming I get some more info from you, but you will be more instruemental in determining what you need than anyone else.

 

[Sebass67]

Arioch u have no idea how much this helps....

My clean is awful...i have a great dead for my age i think anyhow...485...i want to do 500 soon. I want to be able to transfer some of that strength to the clean. My catch is the worst i need to work on wrist flexibility. The way i am catching it right now is hurting my front delts because i am not forcing my elbows forward... Other than that for now anyhow, i will be improving the other phases of my clean. Any quick good ways to get my flexibility in my wrists?

Thanx for the info!