China spending their $$$ on infrastructure, not stupid entitlements.

[calveless wonder]

Good add, lartinos; China acquiring agricultural land on the cheap in Africa with some of that surplus cash is another example of how they are wisely investing in their future. They don't have to worry about a Zimbabwe-style land-grab against their farmers either; their army would crush the perpetrator's forces mercilessly in no time flat.

As we sat together outside the tiny two-room house they share with their teenage son, I asked why the family had made this epic journey.
"Simple," Mr Pan told me with a gentle smile, "because it is so much easier to make money here in Africa than back home in China."

"At my age in China I can't do any serious work," Mr Pan said. "Here I don't feel old, I can still do something."

that doesn't reinforce your point, you do realize that right?

 

[canadianhitman]

As we sat together outside the tiny two-room house they share with their teenage son, I asked why the family had made this epic journey.
"Simple," Mr Pan told me with a gentle smile, "because it is so much easier to make money here in Africa than back home in China."

"At my age in China I can't do any serious work," Mr Pan said. "Here I don't feel old, I can still do something."

that doesn't reinforce your point, you do realize that right?

Mr. Pan will probably have a whole bunch of bliques doing the farming for him in no time flat.

 

[puddlemonkey]

libs give me lulz

 

[ledhead]

Oh, and before the first libtard chimes in about how life sucks for Chinese people because of the lack of entitlements, lack of opportunity, blah blah blah...let me say that NO, it sure doesn't suck for those who work hard AND smart:

-China now has almost one million millionaires. The Hurun Wealth Report's new rich list says China has created 960,000 millionaires as of this year. That's an increase of 135,000 from the 825,000 millionaires Hurun reported just two years ago

-The average age of the Chinese millionaire is only 39 years old - 15 years younger than those in the U.S. and Europe.

-30 percent of Chinese millionaires are women (earned in BUSINESS in the vast majority of cases, not by divorcing and getting half)


Fuck Clinton, who should have been paying down your debt, pouring money into US infrastructure, and spending on R&D, ect when you guys were flush with money.

Fuck Obama for looking to spend what you don't have, and in all the wrong places to boot.

You're right about Clinton to a degree and totally right about Obama.

However, you're not looking into the big picture with China. I'm with you about not spending on entitlements. Remember every dollar government spends no matter on what, requires a dollar of taxation, no matter what form of goverment it is. Therefore, they have to get the money from some where to spend on their infrastructure projects. Even if they have a surplus. I don't know what the tax brackets are in China, that would be helpful to know. Then you could make a good estimation about their economy's REAL INCOME. Which is a sign of a booming economy. The last I checked the average Chinese "per capita income" was 2,500 a year (American dollars). Which is not really something to brag about.

As for the million-millionaires their fiscal policies created, sounds good on paper. However, considering they have 1.5 billion people, I'm not really impressed. CW made a interesting point about "parity," I'm not quite sure what context he is putting that into. But parity is relevant in places like China, considering the majority of their people are, well.... serfs....

The last time I checked (I could be wrong) the GDP was growing 10% a year in China. Again, it sounds good on paper, but with all their people its nothing really to get excited about. Furthermore, 10% annual GDP growth is not healthy because they're are teetering with the bubble bursting. Which I think did already did happen somewhat. What China is doing right now is good, but they should have been doing this a long time ago. They're trying to make up for lost time. Too late, too little, to rectify the situation.
They took our debt, which they're are going to get stiffed. We took Europes debt after WWI and got stiffed, which is one of the reasons America went into the Great Depression. Prior to the GD the GDP was growing 7% a year in America with only 250-280 million people. Don't be too impressed with China yet.... Wait and see what happens in the next few years.....IMO, I think they played themselves....

 

[calveless wonder]

You're right about Clinton to a degree and totally right about Obama.

However, you're not looking into the big picture with China. I'm with you about not spending on entitlements. Remember every dollar government spends no matter on what, requires a dollar of taxation, no matter what form of goverment it is. Therefore, they have to get the money from some where to spend on their infrastructure projects. Even if they have a surplus. I don't know what the tax brackets are in China, that would be helpful to know. Then you could make a good estimation about their economy's REAL INCOME. Which is a sign of a booming economy. The last I checked the average Chinese "per capita income" was 2,500 a year (American dollars). Which is not really something to brag about.

As for the million-millionaires their fiscal policies created, sounds good on paper. However, considering they have 1.5 billion people, I'm not really impressed. CW made a interesting point about "parity," I'm not quite sure what context he is putting that into. But parity is relevant in places like China, considering the majority of their people are, well.... serfs....

The last time I checked (I could be wrong) the GDP was growing 10% a year in China. Again, it sounds good on paper, but with all their people its nothing really to get excited about. Furthermore, 10% annual GDP growth is not healthy because they're are teetering with the bubble bursting. Which I think did already did happen somewhat. What China is doing right now is good, but they should have been doing this a long time ago. They're trying to make up for lost time. Too late, too little, to rectify the situation.
They took our debt, which they're are going to get stiffed. We took Europes debt after WWI and got stiffed, which is one of the reasons America went into the Great Depression. Prior to the GD the GDP was growing 7% a year in America with only 250-280 million people. Don't be too impressed with China yet.... Wait and see what happens in the next few years.....IMO, I think they played themselves....

you and i are talking about the same thing. that's where i was going with that.

and basically, i agree with everything you stated (except the part about WWI and european debt. i can't comment one way or another. i assumed that was due to our overreliance on credit with a lack of banking/lending regulations. But i'm not well versed enough in that to dispute what you're saying)

 

[mrplunkey]

As someone who has traveled to China, hosted guests here and does a fair amount of business in China, here are my observations:

1) There are three classes in China. Workers have virtually nothing, but they are getting more over time. Their quality of life will continue to improve. The second class is entrepreneurial and well-educated. They are typically doctors or engineers who have broken-out of the system and are doing things on their own. The third class is the politically connected. Their ties alone get them almost anything they want. They aren't as smart as the true entrepreneurs and they are hard to do business with because they want a lot of cash up front in exchange for their connections, which may or may not materialize.

2) China most definitely does spend a lot on infrastructure these days. Shanghai roads are larger, nicer and better build than our own. Cameras are everywhere. And if you get in an area that hasn't been modernized yet, it's very rough.

3) China's biggest weakness is its government. Right now they are doing no-brainer projects like building major roads and public transportation between population centers. If they'll slowly back out of the situation and let the entrepreneurs take over, they'll be fine. But instead, they're going to attribute some of their success to the government itself, which will only feed it and make it larger.

4) China's second biggest weakness is the upcoming uprising of its people. It won't be a violent revolution, but instead a soft one. What will do it is outside cultural influences showing people how much better they could/should live. Eventually they'll start voting themselves benefits just like we did in the US, but with 2+ billion people, they'll bankrupt themselves even faster than we have.

Between now and China's setbacks, we (the US) will have crashed well before then. Good times!

 

[ledhead]

you and i are talking about the same thing. that's where i was going with that.

and basically, i agree with everything you stated (except the part about WWI and european debt. i can't comment one way or another. i assumed that was due to our overreliance on credit with a lack of banking/lending regulations. But i'm not well versed enough in that to dispute what you're saying)

Yeah, you're pretty much assuming right. Prior to WWI the US national debt was I think 1.3 billion. After, the war it ballooned to 23 or 24 billion, half of that was lent to the ally countries. However, we never saw the cash. At first the US was receiving payments but then were stiffed. Part of it has to do with a crazy tarriff Hoover passed (Smoot-Hawley). Which was a huge tax on imports, in return other countries implemented retaliatory tarrifs and refused to pay their debt back to the US.

The point I'm trying to make is, by China taking our debt (dont know how much, but it is a lot) they put themselves in a precarious situation. They probably know they're not really going to get paid, so they took the debt because they export a lot of their goods to the US. History is relevant to deal with the present and the future, so i would not be surprised if the US places a similar tax on imports in the near future. Which would be bad economic policy. However, imo the US has China by the balls because whether people agree or not, if the US economy faulters the world's economy falls. The reason is too many countries have in invested their money in the US, and count on us for other things.

Im just speculating what could/should happen... Bump for Plunkey's imput....

 

[Sub-Zero]

no surprise there that the chinese are spending their money on railroads

 

[cuthroat]

Interesting read...would read again.

 

[EnderJE]

As someone who has traveled to China, hosted guests here and does a fair amount of business in China, here are my observations:

1) There are three classes in China. Workers have virtually nothing, but they are getting more over time. Their quality of life will continue to improve. The second class is entrepreneurial and well-educated. They are typically doctors or engineers who have broken-out of the system and are doing things on their own. The third class is the politically connected. Their ties alone get them almost anything they want. They aren't as smart as the true entrepreneurs and they are hard to do business with because they want a lot of cash up front in exchange for their connections, which may or may not materialize.

2) China most definitely does spend a lot on infrastructure these days. Shanghai roads are larger, nicer and better build than our own. Cameras are everywhere. And if you get in an area that hasn't been modernized yet, it's very rough.

3) China's biggest weakness is its government. Right now they are doing no-brainer projects like building major roads and public transportation between population centers. If they'll slowly back out of the situation and let the entrepreneurs take over, they'll be fine. But instead, they're going to attribute some of their success to the government itself, which will only feed it and make it larger.

4) China's second biggest weakness is the upcoming uprising of its people. It won't be a violent revolution, but instead a soft one. What will do it is outside cultural influences showing people how much better they could/should live. Eventually they'll start voting themselves benefits just like we did in the US, but with 2+ billion people, they'll bankrupt themselves even faster than we have.

Between now and China's setbacks, we (the US) will have crashed well before then. Good times!

The only other thing that I would say about #4 is that I could see them do that because of the massive differences between the two places. Entitlements in the US or Canada or Europe are not quite the same as the ones in places like China, the Phillipines, or Nepal. There is no social net there. Unless the direction is to let those people die, they require a baseline.

However, as always, is that the fear will be "what is the baseline"? For example, I think that in the first world, they have alot more then the baseline covered in the social programs (based on my brother's previous career as a social worker).

Again, I really like the "Everything Is Obvious" book for a means to solve this problem rather the scream out "fuck libs" or "fuck cons" solutions. The intent would be to find local representations of populations and try different things and recognize that a solution that works for one town might work for a similar town but not all of China.