Carbs and Fats together?

[Him1]

Bump-- everyone seems to have their own way... I think that for me, it takes both carbs and fat in a meal to keep me going. Just a "balance" thing.

Ok, BBF and I have had it out on this since this thread, but, since this was bumped, I'll repeat what I believe, even though Jg1 already summed it up.1. Insulin increases nutrient absorption, 2.fat has twice the calories as carbs and protein and has no reason to ever be sped up into the gut... in fact, just the opposite). 3. I believe this enviornment(fats <any kind> plus simple carbs or a lot of complex carbs) is increased fat storage waiting to happen. And it's not just me, there's a lot of anecdotal experience here on the boards to back this up.

 

[geoffgarst]

Interesting repsonses!

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Ok, BBF and I have had it out on this since this thread, but, since this was bumped, I'll repeat what I believe, even though Jg1 already summed it up.1. Insulin increases nutrient absorption, 2.fat has twice the calories as carbs and protein and has no reason to ever be sped up into the gut... in fact, just the opposite). 3. I believe this enviornment(fats <any kind> plus simple carbs or a lot of complex carbs) is increased fat storage waiting to happen. And it's not just me, there's a lot of anecdotal experience here on the boards to back this up. [/QUOTE

I'm not certain what you are trying say with the line about fat having no reason to ever be sped up intot he gut. Did I imply something about that in my post accidently? Your point #3, I will agree with in part. Exclude the fat issue..."simple carbs or a lot of complex carbs) is increased fat storage waiting to happen" since eating more carbs in one meal will always produce a greater insulin response this statement is 100% true without even adding the part about fats in. Once muscle and liver glycogen stores are at, or nearly full insulin does not distinguish between sugar calories or fat calories in its mission to convert those calories into adipose tissue. The issue is excess calories and insulin, not fat calories and insulin. In fact, if more of those excess calories are in the form of glucose than fat in the bloodstream, there will tend to be a greater increase in fat stores simply because MORE insulin will have been produced by the body.

While people have had success at lossing bodyfat by not combining fat + carbs, this does not make it an idea method. People have lost fat on everything from low fat diets to keto diets, to the slim fast system. All anecdotal evidence that EACH of them is idea using this logic. Also, just because someone has successfully lost a fair amount of adipose tissue without a signifigant loss of lbm while using this methods, does not prove that someone would GAIN fat by combining the two.

No one wishes to think for themselves anymore or apply logic. That is why this country is failing intellectually, and why we seem to grow less intelligent with each passing year. In the American school system, we are no longer taught to think for ourselves or apply logic properly. We are taught to memorize information that others provide for us, and accept it as true. We are not taught how to think, we are told WHAT to think. Its very sad, and makes it difficult to argue a point with the greater majority of people anymore. Perhaps I need to just get Nelson Montana, or Arnold to proclaim, "Combining fats and carbs in one meal does not increase the probablity of gaining fat." without bothering to give a good explination. I would sway far more people that way, since this is how we now arrive at our conclusions and beliefs. We just listen for someone with authority to proclaim something so, and that makes it true.

 

[Him1]

I'm not certain what you are trying say with the line about fat having no reason to ever be sped up intot he gut. Did I imply something about that in my post accidently? Your point #3, I will agree with in part. Exclude the fat issue..."simple carbs or a lot of complex carbs) is increased fat storage waiting to happen" since eating more carbs in one meal will always produce a greater insulin response this statement is 100% true without even adding the part about fats in. Once muscle and liver glycogen stores are at, or nearly full insulin does not distinguish between sugar calories or fat calories in its mission to convert those calories into adipose tissue. The issue is excess calories and insulin, not fat calories and insulin. In fact, if more of those excess calories are in the form of glucose than fat in the bloodstream, there will tend to be a greater increase in fat stores simply because MORE insulin will have been produced by the body.

While people have had success at lossing bodyfat by not combining fat + carbs, this does not make it an idea method. People have lost fat on everything from low fat diets to keto diets, to the slim fast system. All anecdotal evidence that EACH of them is idea using this logic. Also, just because someone has successfully lost a fair amount of adipose tissue without a signifigant loss of lbm while using this methods, does not prove that someone would GAIN fat by combining the two.

No one wishes to think for themselves anymore or apply logic. That is why this country is failing intellectually, and why we seem to grow less intelligent with each passing year. In the American school system, we are no longer taught to think for ourselves or apply logic properly. We are taught to memorize information that others provide for us, and accept it as true. We are not taught how to think, we are told WHAT to think. Its very sad, and makes it difficult to argue a point with the greater majority of people anymore. Perhaps I need to just get Nelson Montana, or Arnold to proclaim, "Combining fats and carbs in one meal does not increase the probablity of gaining fat." without bothering to give a good explination. I would sway far more people that way, since this is how we now arrive at our conclusions and beliefs. We just listen for someone with authority to proclaim something so, and that makes it true.

Why exclude the fat issue? You say that fat storage will occur anyway with exess insulin. I agree... but, which one would cause more fat gain, 20g of protein, or 20g of fat? One has 80 calories and the other has 180 calories. Both will be sped into the bloodstream at the same rate. One is being sped into the muscle and the other is being directly deposited as adipose tissue.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

My point was that the you said fats + "quoted statement" = a reciepe for fat gain. My point was that the statment about sugar or excess complex carbs was true all by itself even if one eats NO fat with it. Protien is different. This is not even an issue. Please go back and carefully read what I said. I'm saying that a 2000 calorie meal that is 50% fat/50% carbs will produce LESS bodyfat gain than a 2000 calorie meal that is 100% carbs. Both might have similar levels of excess carb or fat calories, but the second one produces twice the insulin (your fat storage hormone) and is absorbed much faster into the bloodstream. Carb calories can are stored just as easily as fat calories, by the body, in the form of fat cells.

 

[Him1]

Well, whatever. All that I'm saying is that simple carbs(probably around 20+g... except post w/o)and large amounts of complex carbs + fat are a very bad combo, and since you say that combo's of foods are irrelevant, your idea has at least one very obvious flaw. I, for one, prefer food combos of p and c... w/ only small amounts of healthy fats. All that I have ever said is that taking in large amounts of carbs and fats in the same meal is a bad idea, which leaves only two real choices, P+C and P+F. How could you possibly argue with what I have to say now that you've conceded that C+F is a bad combo... what other choices are there? Or do you just like to argue?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Well, whatever. All that I'm saying is that simple carbs(probably around 20+g... except post w/o)and large amounts of complex carbs + fat are a very bad combo, and since you say that combo's of foods are irrelevant, your idea has at least one very obvious flaw. I, for one, prefer food combos of p and c... w/ only small amounts of healthy fats. All that I have ever said is that taking in large amounts of carbs and fats in the same meal is a bad idea, which leaves only two real choices, P+C and P+F. How could you possibly argue with what I have to say now that you've conceded that C+F is a bad combo... what other choices are there? Or do you just like to argue?

Holy fucking shit. I give up. Just forget it. Just out of curiousty, did you actually read ANYTHING I typed, or just make up responses based on something else?

 

[Him1]

But, I must say that I'm tired of debating in circles. Anyone confused will have to make up their own mind(I've damn near confused myself, and I've got a pretty firm grip on diet issues). I'm not going to try to convince anyone.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Well, you certainly confused the hell out of me. I had to go back and read what I typed again to check for typos or something after reading your responses. I've concluding that you are either trying yank my chain by just making things up as you go, or you didn't actually read my posts. LoL

 

[Him1]

Holy fucking shit. I give up. Just forget it. Just out of curiousty, did you actually read ANYTHING I typed, or just make up responses based on something else?

LOL, what the fuck ever dude. You think you're the first guy to do something different,(ie keto bulking, as absurd as it is) and you think it's the only way it can be done now. Not only is it not effecient for almost everybody, but probably COUNTER-Productive. Live your delusion buddy, but, there's a reason that bodybuilders have eaten carbs during the off and bulking season since the beginning of bodybuilding....(here's the big finish)........ CARBS ARE GOOD FOR GROWTH....... EXCESS AMOUNTS ARE NOT THAT GOOD FOR DIETING. Or did I make that too simple for you and your Pseudo-scientific Bullshit you like to post.