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carb and post workout question
- Thread starter NJbigtime
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Nathan
New member
I agree that some carbs are needed after you workout, but I have a follow-up question: Should you drink simple carbs right after lifting or just a protein drink? If you lift at in the evening? Should your next meal then consist of something like brown rice, or would veggies be better for carbs? This question always bothers me cause you don't want too many unused carbs in your system when you go to sleep and you generally want to avoid high GI carbs (except post-workout).
NJbigtime said:
It depends on how much you weigh but 50-60g should be enough.
Immediately after training go for carbs that have a GI of 80-100 (for dieting go for the lower value)
Post workout meal should consist of "not-so-starchy-carbs" like white rice and potatoes, GI of 60-70
NJBig, go for a little cereal like corn flakes(no milk) blended in a cup of apple juice and 30g of whey.
diamonddiceclay
New member
you should only eat carbs after your full body workout and not for more than 36 hrs
Nathan said:
Drink simple carbs -- 40-50g with 40g of whey.
Have a normal meal an hour or so later.
There is nothing magical about going to sleep or eating after 6:00 that will make you suddenly get fat from food -- that is a myth. What matters is daily calorie balance. Just make sure whatever you have at night is accounted for by having less during the rest of the day.
B
Burning_Inside
Guest
I imagine this has been brought up int his thread, but listen, your body doesn't give 2 shits when you get carbs...This Info was probably based around 1 test done in Antarctica or something in the 70's and it grew to be popular belief.
You need to eat balanced meals throughout the day. Get your alloted calories, and you'll be fine, it plain out doesn't matter when. If your diet is calling for say 500 grams of carbs per day, then it needs 500 grams. Not 500 grams before this time, or before the magical 4 pm.
Dude, just eat your 6 balanced meals or 7 or whatever and be happy
You need to eat balanced meals throughout the day. Get your alloted calories, and you'll be fine, it plain out doesn't matter when. If your diet is calling for say 500 grams of carbs per day, then it needs 500 grams. Not 500 grams before this time, or before the magical 4 pm.
Dude, just eat your 6 balanced meals or 7 or whatever and be happy
Phemomena
New member
HOWEVER, it's not a great idea to just stuff yourself right before you go to sleep... you most likely won't get a good night's sleep and feel like crap the next day... if you eat a large meal (regardless of the breakdown) give yourself at least an hour or two to digest the food before you go to sleep...
best thing, eat two or three smaller meals (one right after your workout and one about an hour or two later and one a couple hours later depending on when you go to bed)....
best thing, eat two or three smaller meals (one right after your workout and one about an hour or two later and one a couple hours later depending on when you go to bed)....
Phemomena said:
I personally sleep much better if I have a large meal -- the physiology of it makes sense as well. Elevated insulin leads increases uptake of tryptophan accross the blood brain barrier, where it is converted to serotonin. in addition, insulin inhibits the release of catecholamines and cortisol, both of which are stimulatory.
Response to what ppl are saying about carbs at night.
Yes you are right when you say that the body doesn't know when you get carbs. The fact is that you shouldn't consume many calories regardless of whether they are from carbs, protein or fat in the evening because your METABOLISM has slowed down significantly. You are no burning food that efficiently anymore. You also need to take in consideration that 97% of excess fat is stored as fat, 77% of excess carbs are stored as fat, and 70% of excess proteins are stored as fat.
Lots of people are fat because they skip breakfest, have small lunch at work and gorge themselves would food in the evening. They did not eat that many cals overall but they ate at the wrong time. I know my father was like that.
Yes you are right when you say that the body doesn't know when you get carbs. The fact is that you shouldn't consume many calories regardless of whether they are from carbs, protein or fat in the evening because your METABOLISM has slowed down significantly. You are no burning food that efficiently anymore. You also need to take in consideration that 97% of excess fat is stored as fat, 77% of excess carbs are stored as fat, and 70% of excess proteins are stored as fat.
Lots of people are fat because they skip breakfest, have small lunch at work and gorge themselves would food in the evening. They did not eat that many cals overall but they ate at the wrong time. I know my father was like that.
Re: Response to what ppl are saying about carbs at night.
Again, it does not matter when you eat. It is daily caloric balance that matters. If you eat at night you might lose less fat during that period, but if you accounted for the calories during the day, you will lose more fat then, thus making up for it. There is nothing magical about eating at night that makes you get fat.
BigAndy69 said:
Again, it does not matter when you eat. It is daily caloric balance that matters. If you eat at night you might lose less fat during that period, but if you accounted for the calories during the day, you will lose more fat then, thus making up for it. There is nothing magical about eating at night that makes you get fat.
cozmokramer
New member
if you really want to get cut... just cut out all the carbs completely!
Everything Par Deus said I agree with. I have been experimenting with this the last 2 months, and have also asked both MS and cockdezl about this also. Simply, as long as you are still within your daily caloric range for the day, and as long as you are not eating more than you are using, then you will not get fat. My main concern was whether or not the huge insulin spike late at night on a HYPOcaloric diet after my workout would induce lipogenesis. NO! Although a large insulin spike will not necessarily put you in a prime condition for fat burning, it doesn't necessarily lead to fat gain either. As long as you are not eating over your daily amount, the large carb/insulin spike is beneficial for muscle repair. NOW, that being said, is high insulin levels healthy? Probably not, but taking advantage of the condition after your workouts a fews days out of the week is the best time to do this, MS agrees with this also. When your body in in a debit for calories/less than maintenance, then you will still lose fat (well, maybe some muscle too if your diet sux). When I workout at night before bed, I make sure that my postworkout meal is within my daily allowance, which is usually 100 grams of carbs (Ultra Fuel), and around 100 grams of whey (actually, this is what my postworkout meal has been the last year).
Although I don't like using other peoples quotes without their permission, here is the answer I got from cockdezl through PM.
"I would imagine that as long as the calories are less than maintenance, then you will still lose fat. I know othat on a very low calorie diets, insulin function decreases...glucose levels remain normal, but insulin does not inhibit lipolysis as much as normal."
I also have a PM from MS/RETRO, but knowing that she visits this board pretty frequently, I'll let her speak for herself on this.
One more thing I find helpful, I like taking my ALA with this meal, especially at night to help with any lowered insulin sensitivity.
MR. BMJ
Although I don't like using other peoples quotes without their permission, here is the answer I got from cockdezl through PM.
"I would imagine that as long as the calories are less than maintenance, then you will still lose fat. I know othat on a very low calorie diets, insulin function decreases...glucose levels remain normal, but insulin does not inhibit lipolysis as much as normal."
I also have a PM from MS/RETRO, but knowing that she visits this board pretty frequently, I'll let her speak for herself on this.
One more thing I find helpful, I like taking my ALA with this meal, especially at night to help with any lowered insulin sensitivity.
MR. BMJ
gurupimp6969
New member
For that late at night you will probably be going to bed within a couple of hours from 7:00 I think that you should eat/drink about 75%protein for muscle building and 25%carbs for recovery my opinion I drink one myoplex 45gms protein with 21 gms carbs just my opinion.
Mr BMJ, I agree with what you say, but I think it is too general. Yes, you might not gain weight if you don't exceed your daily caloric range for the day, but from my experience with dieting it can have a negative impact on fat loss because of a slower metabolic rate and release of insulin.
However, this may not affect someone who is weight training because of the fact that there is an immediate need for calories.
Eating more in the evening when you haven't trained recently is a big mistake.
An example would be my 300lb friend Steve. He would skip breakfest(maybe have 200 cals or so), consume roughly 400-500 kcals at lunch, and well over 1000 kcals in the evening. He was eating a large dinner at 8:00 pm, and snacks(usually Ho-Hos) at 4:00pm and 6:00pm. He was eating below his maintainance level but he was getting fatter.
He dropped 30-40 lbs by simply eating more calories earlier in the day and much less in the evening. He was actually eating much more food overall.
However, this may not affect someone who is weight training because of the fact that there is an immediate need for calories.
Eating more in the evening when you haven't trained recently is a big mistake.
An example would be my 300lb friend Steve. He would skip breakfest(maybe have 200 cals or so), consume roughly 400-500 kcals at lunch, and well over 1000 kcals in the evening. He was eating a large dinner at 8:00 pm, and snacks(usually Ho-Hos) at 4:00pm and 6:00pm. He was eating below his maintainance level but he was getting fatter.
He dropped 30-40 lbs by simply eating more calories earlier in the day and much less in the evening. He was actually eating much more food overall.
AHHHH!!! So much confusion! Basically what it comes down to, how much carbs and how much protien should you be getting if you want to gain muscle mass, with every meal? I have heard about 25-30 grams of carbs and protien. I have heard 30 protien and 55 carbs. And I also heard remove carbs completly. Which way is the best way if for example, me, wieghing around 150 with 10% of body fat and looking for some pure 100% lean muscle. I'm looking for muscle mass only. NOT gain weight as in fat and muscle; I dont want to gain fat or be fat but intaking too much carbs and stuff.
endpoint
New member
par deus:"Fat loss is determined primarily by daily calorie balance"
That makes it sound like just before you go to bed your body, gets out a calculator a note pad and a calorie guide........adds it all together and decideds whether you gain fat or lose it.
shouldnt it be
"Fat loss is determined primarily by momentary calorie balance"
or something like that? like if you consume 500cals......and during the time it is converting to energy, you only use 300 of it.......200cals gets stored as fat.
or is that tottally wrong.
That makes it sound like just before you go to bed your body, gets out a calculator a note pad and a calorie guide........adds it all together and decideds whether you gain fat or lose it.
shouldnt it be
"Fat loss is determined primarily by momentary calorie balance"
or something like that? like if you consume 500cals......and during the time it is converting to energy, you only use 300 of it.......200cals gets stored as fat.
or is that tottally wrong.
endpoint said:
Yes, the "daily balance" is a simplification. The momentary thing is not correct either because variations in hormones as well as the issue of determining momentary balance -- is it the amount in your bloodstream, stomach, small intestine -- you get my point. Basically, you need an extended period for it to hold -- 24 hours is just very convenient.
BigAndy69 said:
This reasoning is faulty. Yes, if you eat more at night, you will lose less fat during that period (or perhaps even gain a bit) because you do burn less calories while sleeping -- however, when you eat less the next day while you are awake and you are burning more calories, you will burn more fat, thus making up for it.
Par Deus said:
"however, when you eat less the next day while you are awake and you are burning more calories, you will burn more fat, thus making up for it"
So, in fact, it is a bad idea to eat more at night if you need to "make up for it"
So MY "reasoning is faulty". Wasn't I right in what I said? What exactly are you arguing about???
Read your last reply again, and maybe you will see how "faulty" your thinking process is.
This reasoning is faulty. Yes, if you eat more at night, you will lose less fat during that period (or perhaps even gain a bit) because you do burn less calories while sleeping
However, when you eat less the next day while you are awake and you are burning more calories, you will burn more fat, thus making up for it.
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BigAndy you're making a lot out of nothing. The fact is it doesn't matter when you eat the calories. You don't have to "make up for it". In fact since we start our days off in the morning you should start your fat counting from there. If you need 3000 calories in a 24 hour period to maintain weight, then it's really that simple. Say you wake up every morning at 7am. We'll track daily calories from 7am till 7am the next morning which is what we would consider our "daily" caloric intake.
I would guess most of us are awake for about 16 hours a day, and if you're up longer then you're lacking enough sleep to provide your body the time to recover. At any rate divide 3000 calories into 16 hours, unless you plan on waking up at night and eating. That equals about 188 calories an hour. If you were to eat exactly 188 calories on the hour, every hour you would provide your body with the energy to maintain weight without losing or gaining. Of course energy levels fluctuate during the day so you'd burn more at certain times than others, but you get the picture.
None of us are going to diet like that however so we break our daily calorie alotment into 5-7 meals. For simplicity we'll say 6 meals of 500 calories spread out over the day. You're telling us that if I chose to skip meal number 3 and add those calories to meal number 6, we would expect to gain weight? Well obviously if you skipped meal number 3 then for the time between meal 2 and meal 4 you will not have enough energy and your body would dip into stored energy to compensate. Now when you ate meal number 6 it would be more than your body needed and thus it might store some of those extra calories. However since we burned stored energy earlier, we will store extra energy later and it evens out.
You're saying that you shouldn't have to even things out if you just ate normally. As I said you don't "have" to do anything. When you choose a calorie alotment for the day then you achieve it. If you chose to eat more later and less earlier then there is nothing to make up for as you have still hit your alotment. Even if you ate your last meal while sitting in bed and fell asleep 30 secs after your last bite, it will still even out. Your body can't guess how long it will be until your next meal so if you eat more than it needs it will begin to store it at some point. However you're still sleeping and since you won't get any more food for 8-9 hours, then at some point it will have to start burning that stored energy again. In essence providing you didn't get all of your alotted calories before bed, you do some good fat burning at night while sleeping.
I probably went over board with the explanation but it was clear you didn't see get the simplicity that Par was trying to explain. Calories are calories regardless when you eat them. Personally I get more of my daily calories in the evening due to my workout time. I only eat about half of my calorie alotment before 6pm, then between 5pm and bedtime which is usually about 10-11pm, I get the other half. I eat 2600 calories a day while dieting so that means 1300 of them come after 6pm. Not only do I have a post workout shake, but I have a big meal afterwards followed by a snack not long before bed. Even though I burn less fat at this time due to the influx of calories, I burn more during the day when I'm not eating as much. If I chose to eat less at night then I'd have to eat more during the day to meet my alotment, thus the end result is identical.
And as for your friend who has trouble with his weight. Perhaps his body was simply in starvation mode from the lack of calories during the day. If he was 300 lbs and only ate 2600 calories then that is WAY low for someone his size. I'd guess the reason he was putting on weight is because his metabolism was slowed way down and he wasn't burning enough stored energy for the day. You said he lost weight by eating more food overall. Well that was the key. It didn't matter that he ate less at night, but he was eating more food overall which boosted his metabolism and allowed it to start burning calories again. Not to mention maybe he has insulin issues and the high sweets in general are causing problems, not at the times he ate them.
You use him as an extreme case. No one is advocating eating 80% of your calories before bedtime. We're simply stating the overall daily caloric intake is what's important. If you choose to have your last meal at bedtime rather than 2 hours before, it isn't going to make a difference in total fatloss. Fod god sakes people, eat before you sleep and don't worry what fucking Cosmo or Men's Health says about eating at night. For you that want to put muscle on I'd say eating right before bed is essential so your body has the raw materials to work with while you sleep. Go to bed with an empty stomach and your muscles will starve all night.
I would guess most of us are awake for about 16 hours a day, and if you're up longer then you're lacking enough sleep to provide your body the time to recover. At any rate divide 3000 calories into 16 hours, unless you plan on waking up at night and eating. That equals about 188 calories an hour. If you were to eat exactly 188 calories on the hour, every hour you would provide your body with the energy to maintain weight without losing or gaining. Of course energy levels fluctuate during the day so you'd burn more at certain times than others, but you get the picture.
None of us are going to diet like that however so we break our daily calorie alotment into 5-7 meals. For simplicity we'll say 6 meals of 500 calories spread out over the day. You're telling us that if I chose to skip meal number 3 and add those calories to meal number 6, we would expect to gain weight? Well obviously if you skipped meal number 3 then for the time between meal 2 and meal 4 you will not have enough energy and your body would dip into stored energy to compensate. Now when you ate meal number 6 it would be more than your body needed and thus it might store some of those extra calories. However since we burned stored energy earlier, we will store extra energy later and it evens out.
You're saying that you shouldn't have to even things out if you just ate normally. As I said you don't "have" to do anything. When you choose a calorie alotment for the day then you achieve it. If you chose to eat more later and less earlier then there is nothing to make up for as you have still hit your alotment. Even if you ate your last meal while sitting in bed and fell asleep 30 secs after your last bite, it will still even out. Your body can't guess how long it will be until your next meal so if you eat more than it needs it will begin to store it at some point. However you're still sleeping and since you won't get any more food for 8-9 hours, then at some point it will have to start burning that stored energy again. In essence providing you didn't get all of your alotted calories before bed, you do some good fat burning at night while sleeping.
I probably went over board with the explanation but it was clear you didn't see get the simplicity that Par was trying to explain. Calories are calories regardless when you eat them. Personally I get more of my daily calories in the evening due to my workout time. I only eat about half of my calorie alotment before 6pm, then between 5pm and bedtime which is usually about 10-11pm, I get the other half. I eat 2600 calories a day while dieting so that means 1300 of them come after 6pm. Not only do I have a post workout shake, but I have a big meal afterwards followed by a snack not long before bed. Even though I burn less fat at this time due to the influx of calories, I burn more during the day when I'm not eating as much. If I chose to eat less at night then I'd have to eat more during the day to meet my alotment, thus the end result is identical.
And as for your friend who has trouble with his weight. Perhaps his body was simply in starvation mode from the lack of calories during the day. If he was 300 lbs and only ate 2600 calories then that is WAY low for someone his size. I'd guess the reason he was putting on weight is because his metabolism was slowed way down and he wasn't burning enough stored energy for the day. You said he lost weight by eating more food overall. Well that was the key. It didn't matter that he ate less at night, but he was eating more food overall which boosted his metabolism and allowed it to start burning calories again. Not to mention maybe he has insulin issues and the high sweets in general are causing problems, not at the times he ate them.
You use him as an extreme case. No one is advocating eating 80% of your calories before bedtime. We're simply stating the overall daily caloric intake is what's important. If you choose to have your last meal at bedtime rather than 2 hours before, it isn't going to make a difference in total fatloss. Fod god sakes people, eat before you sleep and don't worry what fucking Cosmo or Men's Health says about eating at night. For you that want to put muscle on I'd say eating right before bed is essential so your body has the raw materials to work with while you sleep. Go to bed with an empty stomach and your muscles will starve all night.
