Capping delts - training routine suggestions

[Roonytunes]

I know this is really hard for a lot of women to do, but I was wondering if anyone can provide a good routine suggestion to get there? This is assuming the right diet/cardio are in place.

I can see obvious striations when I do my lat raises now, so I want to know what I need to do to push myself to get there. If some one can provide a sample routine with sets/reps as well as frequency to repeat, that would be much appreciated. THANKS!

 

[scorpiogirl]

Lateral Raises work the best for me (I hate them though!). Upright rows help too. I think you do both of these, don't you? If you do....increase your weight some.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Miltary press and arnold press.

 

[caligirl]

dont know what you're doing now but, you could try a bunch of things.
1. go heavier
2. rest more between shoulder days.
3. dedicate a day to shoulders, train them independant of other body parts, never before a heavy chest or back day and never the day after.
4. work on your biceps a bit more, this aids in shoulder developement and creating an illusion of nicely defined side delts, especially the hammer curls. Contrary to popular belief, the biceps are the fastest recovering bodypart, not abs. you can work them a bit more.
5. throw rear delts in with your back day, the most underdeveloped part of the shoulder especially on women. then you really get them responding.
6. train your shoulders 2x per week, one heavy day one moderate day, it is okay to include them WITH chest for the second day.
here is an example:
M: shoulders
T: legs
W: back
T: abs/cardio
F: chest /shoulders
S: arms
S: Rest
something like that, you get the idea.

7. partial reps work great for shocking efffect once a week
8. periodization is alway a standby
Theres more but I'm starting to ramble. Shoulders are my fav, I have tons of shoulder programs...
example 2 shoulder mass builder 2 minutes rest between sets.
I'll give you the weights I use ONLY as example, you have to figure out your own.
I start with: a serious warm up, a series of 6 shoulder specific exercises with 2.5 weights, takes about 10 minutes. then: first pushing.
seated overhead BB press 5 sets including w/u of 10 bar only then 8,6,5,5
8/65lb, 6/75lbs, 5/80lbs, 5/80lbs
then to a pulling exercise
upright rows
same sets and reps
45lbs 55lbs 65lbs 65lbs
reverse flys (only machine I ever use for shoulders)
50,60,65, 70lbs
front lateral raises
12.5, 15, 20, 22.5lbs
side lateral raises
10,12.5,15, 17.5
this is only an example....
11. eat more
12. rest more for growth...
I change my shoulder program EVERY week. I vary reps, sets but keep the days consistent. and keep the weights consistant for whatever goal I have at the time.
I have found for building (for me) I have to go heavy and use free weight, no machines. I do use cables a few times a month for a change. dont forget your traps and do shrugs sometimes too.... arnold presses really helped to develope my delts too.... anyway, like i said i dont know what you're doing now, I'm done rattling on... hope that helped in some way or another..!

 

[buffalogal]

Wow caligirl - great tips. Thanks for the info.

 

[Sassy69]

That's some solid info! A lot of girls don't have a lot of size in their shoulders anyway so the presses, lat pulls, shrugs really help to get the mass. I use a lot of front, side and rear delt light weight or cable work in super sets, higher reps (15-20/set) to get the detail.

 

[scorpiogirl]

dont know what you're doing now but, you could try a bunch of things.
1. go heavier
2. rest more between shoulder days.
3. dedicate a day to shoulders, train them independant of other body parts, never before a heavy chest or back day and never the day after.
4. work on your biceps a bit more, this aids in shoulder developement and creating an illusion of nicely defined side delts, especially the hammer curls. Contrary to popular belief, the biceps are the fastest recovering bodypart, not abs. you can work them a bit more.
5. throw rear delts in with your back day, the most underdeveloped part of the shoulder especially on women. then you really get them responding.
6. train your shoulders 2x per week, one heavy day one moderate day, it is okay to include them WITH chest for the second day.
here is an example:
M: shoulders
T: legs
W: back
T: abs/cardio
F: chest /shoulders
S: arms
S: Rest
something like that, you get the idea.

7. partial reps work great for shocking efffect once a week
8. periodization is alway a standby

Great info!

 

[caligirl]

That's some solid info! A lot of girls don't have a lot of size in their shoulders anyway so the presses, lat pulls, shrugs really help to get the mass. I use a lot of front, side and rear delt light weight or cable work in super sets, higher reps (15-20/set) to get the detail.

once I get my size I use high reps to get cut too. That superduper warm up I have for shoulders is really great for cutting. I throw it in at the end and increase to 4 or even 5 sets. depending on how I feel. it's a burner. Cables are good too, I have to take off the handle and use the clip to hold, because sometimes on side delts, the weight (plates) is/are too much (heavy) even 1 pound makes a difference for me on shoulders, especially when I'm doing high reps.
Isometric exercises can increase mass too.... but thats a whole nother issue... I don't want to get started on that one, I'll be here forever!

 

[Sassy69]

At the moment Im' doing a lot of high rep / low weight supersetting w/ cables for shoulders (front, side raises, etc.) and THEN move to the standard mass buildign stuff like bar presses to fill out after working on pulling out the detail - this is sort of a new approach I'm trying w/ the new trainer. Mass is not my goal, but pullign out the detail and then creating depth to define the detail is what I'm trying to do.

 

[bignate73]

whoa...ok.

an independent day might not be the way to go, but more likely more frequently training them. the one bodypart per day thing is phasing out fast as people realize that quite frankly they don't work that specific bodypart that hard to warrant 7 days off, nor is it productive when you can train a bodypart in one fashion and then train it a few days later in another fashion and still make gains. some of the most productive routines are ones centered on lower volume and higher frequency. some of the most ineffective ones(one muscle a day) are spread around the bodybuilding world like ebola, with no vaccination in sight. supercompensation (the goal of most seeking hypertrophy) does not take 7 days, more like 2-3.

a note on detail, as caligirl mentioned. you can have specific areas you are interested in working/bringing, for shoulders it may be your rear delts or ant. delts. do your main work, then either finish with the SPECIFIC area you need (all 3 heads is not detail, thats construction) or save it for another day where you have that muscle involved but not isolated (rear delts get it when you do rows/front delts after chest presses etc.) so you get 2 days of focus per week on that bodypart. This is the point that WSB uses for their xtra workouts. its to bring up lagging bodyparts (primarily used for strength but has its merits for hypertrophy too). again the principle is an extra workout of specificity to address weak points.

3rd point: high rep stuff..does not pull out definition. it may physically burn, but specifically this is like doing endless crunches to bring out the abs. detail is created with well built muscle, low bodyfat. putting on some mass in an area may be just what the doctor ordered to save yourself from endless lateral/front/rear raises at low intensity (1rm %) that slowly bring up what you could have had in mass in a short period with the correct exercise intensity.

just some ideas...

 

[caligirl]

whoa...ok.

an independent day might not be the way to go, but more likely more frequently training them. the one bodypart per day thing is phasing out fast as people realize that quite frankly they don't work that specific bodypart that hard to warrant 7 days off, nor is it productive when you can train a bodypart in one fashion and then train it a few days later in another fashion and still make gains. some of the most productive routines are ones centered on lower volume and higher frequency. some of the most ineffective ones(one muscle a day) are spread around the bodybuilding world like ebola, with no vaccination in sight. supercompensation (the goal of most seeking hypertrophy) does not take 7 days, more like 2-3.

a note on detail, as caligirl mentioned. you can have specific areas you are interested in working/bringing, for shoulders it may be your rear delts or ant. delts. do your main work, then either finish with the SPECIFIC area you need (all 3 heads is not detail, thats construction) or save it for another day where you have that muscle involved but not isolated (rear delts get it when you do rows/front delts after chest presses etc.) so you get 2 days of focus per week on that bodypart. This is the point that WSB uses for their xtra workouts. its to bring up lagging bodyparts (primarily used for strength but has its merits for hypertrophy too). again the principle is an extra workout of specificity to address weak points.

3rd point: high rep stuff..does not pull out definition. it may physically burn, but specifically this is like doing endless crunches to bring out the abs. detail is created with well built muscle, low bodyfat. putting on some mass in an area may be just what the doctor ordered to save yourself from endless lateral/front/rear raises at low intensity (1rm %) that slowly bring up what you could have had in mass in a short period with the correct exercise intensity.

just some ideas...

whoa.... okay?
I dont think there was a word said about taking 7 days off? To keep your body in a continued state of shock will benefit whatever muscle group you're training. I have some friggin beefy shoulders to attest to that. Everyone is different. I have benefited from some of the suggestions I posted, clients and friends have benefited from others.
I agree with sassy, that high reps DO work, especially for women in bringing out added detail. training hard on a dedicated day will allow for increased intensity and focus on that particular muscle group..... I myself sure do have a better session if my shoulders are fresh...
Maybe if Rooneytunes posted her shoulder routine we would better understand what she needs... at this point we are all guessing and commenting on different ways of training.

 

[bignate73]

my mistake, i glossed over your sample routine taking it for your typical one bodypart a day routine. i can see now it is based on prioritizing shoulders specifically.

i do take issue with high reps that DO work....especially for women. that thinking is flawed. by that logic every woman that takes a spin class would have shredded legs. every woman....or man for that matter would have dream abs by the endless high rep work. spot reduction is still spot reduction, no matter how you slice it. if you are talking about isolation work to bring up weak points, thats one thing, but if you are talking about bringing out striations etc. thats the work of bodyfat reduction. there are no gender specifics in training. physiology and hormones will dictate fat deposits and muscle gains, but type I and II fibers are what they are.

i guess a more specific definition of "detail" is in order.

 

[Sassy69]

Not sure if this helps clarify what I mean by detail -- I've got a broad back anyway and doing heavy shrugs & what not since 1991 has given me some beef. I'm specifically cutting down size to move from BB to figure, plus I've been sporadic in the gym for the last 4 months + lousy diet. For me the only thing of interest is smaller & optimized shaping - I'm sooo done w/ mass development. So that's why I've all but tossed my heavy lifting schedule for more reps, lighter weights, more aerobic-type training.

Before we can even discuss "capping delts", lots of girls just have very small shoulders because most girls (outside of BB) don't incorporate things like heavy shrugs, presses, etc. and don't have the background & time invested in building mass. So you would have to pick where you are & what you need to do - if it is building the mass first, then build the mass. If you have some mass & need to develop the shape for competition, then you can focus only on higher reps. Or if you need more mass & shape, you can do both.

Granted diet is what will bring out the competition quality cuts, but shoulders are a complex set of muscles & tendons to get shaped.

 

[Roonytunes]

Maybe if Rooneytunes posted her shoulder routine we would better understand what she needs... at this point we are all guessing and commenting on different ways of training.

This thread has been very helpful to me, Caligirl, with your numerous suggestions. I currently only hit shoulders with 2 exercises per week (usually shoulder press and lat raises, but sometimes with cable machines) with 4 sets of about 12 reps. So I was looking for ideas on what I need to do to get the look that I want....I would ideally like shoulder growth of about 1.5 inches and then "pull out" the definition.

 

[caligirl]

my mistake, i glossed over your sample routine taking it for your typical one bodypart a day routine. i can see now it is based on prioritizing shoulders specifically.

i do take issue with high reps that DO work....especially for women. that thinking is flawed. by that logic every woman that takes a spin class would have shredded legs. every woman....or man for that matter would have dream abs by the endless high rep work. spot reduction is still spot reduction, no matter how you slice it. if you are talking about isolation work to bring up weak points, thats one thing, but if you are talking about bringing out striations etc. thats the work of bodyfat reduction. there are no gender specifics in training. physiology and hormones will dictate fat deposits and muscle gains, but type I and II fibers are what they are.

i guess a more specific definition of "detail" is in order.

not trying to be mean here but, jeez man, you really want to debate about this huh...? Flawed... whatever... nice, thanks.
well, as I read your post, I see you are just waaaaaaaaaaaay off in taking my point, which at the beginning of this post was a SUGGESTION, and just generalizing it to death. Bad analogy by the way with spin and high rep work. Apples to oranges, no one even talked about spot reduction???
your off buddy. I use high reps, and I know millions of others who use high reps at different stages in their programs to achieve certian goals. People are different, what works for one may not work for another. I use high reps in place of cardio, circuits... etc. dont be so narrow minded.
Is that you in your avi? if so, I think you might benefit from some high reps, your lookin a little smooth....

 

[caligirl]

This thread has been very helpful to me, Caligirl, with your numerous suggestions. I currently only hit shoulders with 2 exercises per week (usually shoulder press and lat raises, but sometimes with cable machines) with 4 sets of about 12 reps. So I was looking for ideas on what I need to do to get the look that I want....I would ideally like shoulder growth of about 1.5 inches and then "pull out" the definition.

Thanks Rooneytunes,
Sounds like you just need more. You can try going heavier, lower the reps, 4 sets are good with a healthy warm up. You can also try adding more exercises to hit each muscle: 4-5 is good for shoulders.
example below

Military presses
upright rows
front & side lateral raises
shrugs
reverse flys

*a note about dips: Dips are traditionally seen as a chest exercise. Dips done in the correct manner, elbows in, shoulder width apart, will make your shoulders scream... throwing it in occasionally will keep them growing.

there are variations in pressing exercises, Arnolds, db presses, standing OH presses... goes on.
same with raises: cables, db's
shrugs can be done with BB's, db's or cables, a good thing to try with shrugs using BB's, do the exercise with the bar behind you, palms facing away from you, you'll feel it!
hope these suggestions help!
cg

 

[Roonytunes]

Thanks Rooneytunes,
hope these suggestions help!
cg

These suggestions are GREAT!! Thanks so much, CG....I really appreciate the detailed response!