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Calling all newbies: Ovetraining is highly ANABOLIC

  • Thread starter Thread starter SSAlexSS
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SSAlexSS

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Read this. it is very long, but it long on purpose. This will put a lid on such subject once and for all.


If you’re like me, every once in awhile you red-line it in the gym. It feels good to find new training limits, doesn’t it?

Maybe you’re going heavy that day, or you’re squeezing out forced reps in multiple sets, or both. The point is that pushing it sometimes really feels good. And you get some positive feedback for your efforts when you can barely turn the wheel or hit the clutch on the way home; forget about trying to put your shirt on the next day. I truly believe, as you probably do, that these are the workouts that stimulate growth.


But what happens if you do too many of those high-intensity workouts in a row or even in a short period of time? C’mon, it happens. You know, you’re fired up coming back from an injury, you’re getting ready for a competition, training with a new partner, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes you just don’t monitor your intensity well and before you know it, two or three weeks of killer workouts go by.


Then, all of a sudden you begin to feel it; it seems like you’re getting weaker, you’ve got no energy, and you really don’t want to train today. “I must be overtraining,” you reason, recalling the way you’ve beaten yourself up lately. After all, you recognize these symptoms and have read about the perils of overtraining. Better back off, or you’re doomed to a downward spiral of ever-decreasing muscular size. After all, overtraining is bad— real bad. Right?


Well, not really. Read on.


The Supercompensation Phenomenon
For decades, scientists, coaches and athletes have noticed an interesting phenomenon. When typical overtraining symptoms appear— resulting from either a sustained period of high intensity (use of heavy weights), or high-volume training (increased number of sets and reps), or both (increased training load; load = weight x total sets x total reps)— and the lifter has gone back to a normal routine, “supercompensation” or “rebound” effect occurs within the next few weeks.


That is, the previously overtrained lifter will make greater gains than he/she normally would have! “No question about it! A supercompensation effect occurs,” says Dr. Michael Stone, professor at Appalachian State University in Boone, NC. Stone, who authored a scientific review on overtraining.1 “It’s simply a physiological adaptation that allows you to handle greater intensities later on,” he adds. Dr. Bill Kraemer, professor at Ball State University, in Muncie, IN, agrees. “That effect does occur. If you have a sharp increase in volume and train hard, there will be some kind of rebound effect.” Kraemer, like Stone, a former president of the National Strength and Conditioning Association, points out, “Your body catches up with itself.”


Greater gains. Got your attention? Sure. Still a bit confused about what “over-reaching” is? Let’s make it clearer.


Over-Reaching Defined
The term “overtraining” is a general one, describing a few different maladies, all with basically the same symptoms: decreased performance, chronic fatigue, lack of training drive, etc. (see the sidebar on overtraining symptoms). “Over-reaching” is a type of short-term overtraining— a specific way of briefly increasing volume/intensity of training (sometimes done purposely)— to facilitate overtraining symptoms and a subsequent rebound effect. To get a better idea of what we mean by “over-reaching,” let’s narrow down the overtraining syndrome.


There is a physiological basis for Nietzche's statement, "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"

Dr. Andy Fry, University of Memphis


Generally, there are two types of overtraining. In the first, performance may plateau or decrease due to the consistent and unvarying use of the same exercises and training routines. This may occur because your central nervous system and musculature are not stimulated with new, different movement patterns; your body essentially becomes “bored” with the same exercises and routines! This kind of overtraining, documented in weightlifters, has been termed “monotonous routine overtraining.” Ever see a guy do the same routine, with the same weight and exercises, day after day? Ever see a guy spend hours in the gym week after week and look exactly the same? Yep, same dude.


The second general type of overtraining is from “overwork,” when you train too much and/or too often. (It’s what we usually think of as overtraining). When this occurs, your recuperative processes are stunted, meaning that: 1) overtraining symptoms appear; 2) you’ve lost the ability to positively adapt to the training stimulus; and 3) you’re risking injury.


Symptoms of Overtraining

Decreased performance in the gym
Elevated resting heart rate
Decreased desire to train
Altered blood pressure
Increased cortisol levels
Decreased testosterone levels
General feeling of weakness/fatigue
Decreased muscle glycogen stores
Increased stress response
Increased muscle soreness
Decreased sex drive
Increased levels of irritability and anxiety
Feeling of depression
More frequent illnesses from lowered immune response

From here, you can go one of two ways. If the overwork is chronic (long-term), you’re headed downhill, and probably fast, resulting in injury, weakness, a loss of lean body mass, decreased appetite, even depression, and a host of other, more severe problems. At best, full recuperation from chronic overwork would take weeks. This should be what we all fear— “overtraining” at its destructive worst.


However, if the overwork has been short-term, has not led to injury, and the lifter goes back to a normal routine (with proper recuperation time), a supercompensation effect is achieved. The processes by which muscles adapt and grow are facilitated. More strength and more muscle tissue, period.


Dr. Andy Fry, Associate Professor and Director of Exercise Biochemistry at the University of Memphis, TN, points out, “Coaches in North America have used over-reaching for a decade, they just haven’t called it that! When working with athletes reporting for football training camp, for instance, they’ll put them through two or three workouts per day. Those are actually variations of over-reaching, so it has been used effectively for years.”


“But,” adds Fry, author of the most recent comprehensive review on overtraining,2 “the coach has to be careful, knowing when to properly remove the overload so the athlete can get a rebound. The bottom line is that it can be, and often is, a planned part of training. Remember, there is a physiological basis for Nietzche’s statement, ‘Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!’”


So, how does this positive adaptation occur from something so destructive as overtraining? No one really knows for certain. But, here’s a possibility.


A Plausible Explanation
You know testosterone is a primary anabolic hormone largely responsible for the protein-synthesizing (growth) capacities of muscle tissue. However, circulating levels of this hormone have consistently been shown to decrease during periods of overwork. This may be induced by an elevation of our “stress hormone,” cortisol.


Even though this is certainly not good, our bodies’ cells can adapt to the overwork by becoming more testosterone-efficient. That is, they’ll make the most of the testosterone that is available. For instance, there may be subtle changes that allow the cell to be more effective with the lower levels of testosterone in the circulation; they become more sensitive to the testosterone that is circulating.


At this point, you back off your high-intensity/high-volume training. You go back to your normal routine with plenty of rest.


Here’s the good part: Now, you’ve got a window of time during which you’re testosterone production increases to normal levels (because you’ve stopped beating yourself up) and your cells are still more testosterone-efficient. You’ll have a greater protein-synthesizing capacity and be able increase muscle growth at a speed your body does not normally achieve! (Of course, this greater anabolic effect only lasts a short while— as long as it takes for the muscle cells to return to their normal rate of testosterone utilization and efficiency).


To be certain, we don’t know if this mechanism is responsible for the over-reaching rebound effect. But, it does seem to make sense with what we do know about the body’s response to overwork.


The Nitty Gritty
Specific Recommendations. Okay, so now you’re really interested in trying out this over-reaching concept. Exactly how do you work this into your routine? Unfortunately, making specific recommendations is not that easy. “The problem is that this is a general phenomenon; it’s very difficult to make specific recommendations to any one athlete,” says Dr. Kraemer. “I mean, this is why athletes have been going by the hit and miss method for so long!” Dr. Stone adds, “The one thing we know for certain is that this supercompensation effect occurs after an increase in intensity or volume.”The question then becomes, for how long do we have to overtrain?


The Concept of Supercompensation

The idea of supercompensation, which is the fundamental basis of over-reaching, should be familiar to every bodybuilder. We use "supercompensation" when we carbohydrate load (aka, glycogen load).


That is, when carb loading, we decrease carbohydrate intake-- the opposite of what we actually want-- so our bodies become more sensitive to carbs. Our bodies' cells start looking for carbohydrates. In this process, an enzyme called glycogen synthetase, whose primary job is to store carbs as glycogen, increases in concentration and activity. (That's what you would expect, right?)


Then, we dramatically increase the percentage of carbs in our diets. Now, there is a period of time when glycogen synthetase has field day of sorts, storing more glycogen than it normally would be able to. Before glycogen synthetase activity can return to normal (maybe days), muscle glycogen levels have become supercompensated-- stored in supernormal (higher-than-normal) levels.


The same thing happens here with over-reaching. You cause your body to maladapt by over-stressing its growth processes through short-term overtraining. Enzymes, cells and hormones positively adapt to the new situation. Then you return to a normal routine, providing adequate rest and recovery. Now, your body's anabolic capacity is supernormal for a limited period of time. The result is accelerated growth.




The Overwork Period. The length of the overwork period will also be an individual thing, differing from lifter to lifter. But, the literature suggests that the acute overwork period last from “a few days to weeks, no more than that.” The lifter must be in touch with how he is feeling throughout the overwork period and gauge the body’s responses to each training session. How do you know when to back off?


The Return to Normal Training. First, overwork for more than a few weeks may put you into the detrimental, chronic overtraining stage. So, regardless of how you’re feeling, total overwork time should be a limiting factor. Second, any changes that are much more severe than decreased performance in the gym and chronic fatigue should be a signal to move out of this short-term overwork period. “What we’re talking about here is a matter of degrees,” says Dr. Bob Keith, co-author with Stone in the JASSR overtraining review and a champion masters powerlifter and marathoner (eeh!, this is a guy who’s got to know about overtraining). “As long as it doesn’t break you down, leading to an exhaustive phase and injury, you’ll have a greater adaptation to meet that stress the next time.”


That Fine Line. The line between the beneficial rebound effect of over-reaching and the destructive effects of chronic overtraining is a fine one, often crossed without notice. However, if you gauge your training carefully and keep the overwork period to a week or two, you can become successful at facilitating this positive anabolic rebound effect from a brief period of overwork.


I am not suggesting that everyone run out, overtrain for a few weeks and wait for the rebound effect. It is achoice that has to be made by you, do you want big gains fast or slow? There is long and easy road, or short and steep. Choice is yours. And dont forget to cherish overtraining.




References
1. Stone, MH, RE Keith, JT Kearney, et al. Overtraining: A review of the signs, symptoms and possible causes. J Appl Sports Sci Res., 5(1):35-50, 1991.
2. Fry, AC, and WJ Kraemer. Resistance exercise overtraining and overreaching. Sports Med., 23(2):106-129, 1997.
 
Why did you only address this to newbies??? Surely they would be the least able to walk the line between beneficial rebound and chronic overtraining......I guess that gives you a good excuse when they fail to gain though huh.

Or mebbe you are afraid more experienced lifters will call bulls**t? Oh looks like Zulu just did.......
 
Last edited:
Ugh dude. That article is crap.

Do you even know if Supercompensation of glycogen occurs? Most experts now think it doesn't.

You don't even understand what it says. Sure 'overtraining' can be beneficial it's called conditioned overtraining and people like Tudor Bompa are prononents of it. The article doesn't even touch on how to go about it; it requires careful intensity/volume/frequency cycling most often used by olympic athletes.

Go ahead and do 25 forced reps. FRY THAT NERVOUS SYSTEM. Oooooo yeah....cherish the overtraining.

Anyway, I'm no expert, but even I can tell this article isn't going to help anyone.

-Zulu
 
Re: Re: Calling all newbies: Ovetraining is highly ANABOLIC

Imnotdutch said:
Why did you only address this to newbies??? Surely they would be the least able to walk the line between beneficial rebound and chronic overtraining......I guess that gives you a good excuse when they fail to gain though huh.

Or mebbe you are afraid more experienced lifters will call bulls**t? Oh looks like Zulu just did.......

Because if you live in Black and White newbie world of "Overtraining is bad, this program is the best, etc", you are a newbie. Most people are newbies. If a person thinks he is dvanced, he probably is just a newbie being dilusional.
 
ZZuluZ said:
Ugh dude. That article is crap.

Do you even know if Supercompensation of glycogen occurs? Most experts now think it doesn't.

You don't even understand what it says. Sure 'overtraining' can be beneficial it's called conditioned overtraining and people like Tudor Bompa are prononents of it. The article doesn't even touch on how to go about it; it requires careful intensity/volume/frequency cycling most often used by olympic athletes.

Go ahead and do 25 forced reps. FRY THAT NERVOUS SYSTEM. Oooooo yeah....cherish the overtraining.

Anyway, I'm no expert, but even I can tell this article isn't going to help anyone.

-Zulu


Ummm. What experts are you talking about? As all things, bodybuilding dogma likes to swing like a pendelum. One time they beleive this, next time is that.

Charles poliquin beleives in supercompensation, heck why did he invent 1 day arm cure (crap load of sets of curls for entire day).

Ask Advaik or me if supecompensation exists, it does. After you do 100+ sets of arms in one day, oh my god, your arms will supercompensate. Sure they might shrink slightly in few hours after 100 sets (due to lack of glycogen), but very soon those suckers will swell up like balloons.

The reason why that article doesnt talk about specific sets/reps etc (if you read it) is because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. Intensity isnt the same from person to person, or recovery abilities. If you claim to know the magic split that works well for everyone, YOU ARE A NEWBIE!

I might recover faster than you, you might recover faster than X, Y might not be good at recovery. One best routine will be best only for someone with similiar genetics, not everyone. Guy who wrote that article isnt newbie like some.
 
Re: Re: Re: Calling all newbies: Ovetraining is highly ANABOLIC

SSAlexSS said:


Because if you live in Black and White newbie world of "Overtraining is bad, this program is the best, etc", you are a newbie. Most people are newbies. If a person thinks he is dvanced, he probably is just a newbie being dilusional.

Fortunately most people who frequent this board are not newbies according to your definition because they come here to learn about new ways of training.

I was almost impressed by the skilful way you decided to alter the definition of a word in order to suit yourself. But for us humble mortals, you should have indicated that your post was directed at everybody because most of us aren't capable of reading minds.
 
SSAlexSS said:



Ummm. What experts are you talking about? As all things, bodybuilding dogma likes to swing like a pendelum. One time they beleive this, next time is that.

Charles poliquin beleives in supercompensation, heck why did he invent 1 day arm cure (crap load of sets of curls for entire day).

Ask Advaik or me if supecompensation exists, it does. After you do 100+ sets of arms in one day, oh my god, your arms will supercompensate. Sure they might shrink slightly in few hours after 100 sets (due to lack of glycogen), but very soon those suckers will swell up like balloons.

The reason why that article doesnt talk about specific sets/reps etc (if you read it) is because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. Intensity isnt the same from person to person, or recovery abilities. If you claim to know the magic split that works well for everyone, YOU ARE A NEWBIE!

I might recover faster than you, you might recover faster than X, Y might not be good at recovery. One best routine will be best only for someone with similiar genetics, not everyone. Guy who wrote that article isnt newbie like some.

So what you are trying to say is that you might be right, somebody else might be right......but we don't know. Also, there is no way to train that will suit everybody. Am I right??

Your statement of 'Read this. it is very long, but it long on purpose. This will put a lid on such subject once and for all' contradicts this point of view.

BTW whats the deal with insiting others are newbies?? Perhaps you could post some pics and some example lifts (you must be immensely strong as your training method is apparently good for strength) so that we might all understand how powerful this type of training is. I'm sure everybody will be so impressed that they will start contacting you for advice immediately.
 
Imnotdutch said:


So what you are trying to say is that you might be right, somebody else might be right......but we don't know. Also, there is no way to train that will suit everybody. Am I right??

Your statement of 'Read this. it is very long, but it long on purpose. This will put a lid on such subject once and for all' contradicts this point of view.

BTW whats the deal with insiting others are newbies?? Perhaps you could post some pics and some example lifts (you must be immensely strong as your training method is apparently good for strength) so that we might all understand how powerful this type of training is. I'm sure everybody will be so impressed that they will start contacting you for advice immediately.


Ok I am sorry to say this, but stuff I am saying isnt getting through some people's heads.

That post is reply to Zulu. Zulu being a newbie he is, started being too aggressive because of simple fact that the article didnt prescribe a specific sets/reps/days.

Answer is simple, different genetics. Apparently zulu being a newbie beleives in one (or few) programs work for all. Or he is just too 'new' to be able to find a program that suits him.

no need for me to continue replying....

What i wrote that "it is wrong
 
There is every need for you to reply......alot of people would listen if you could back up your words with pics and numbers.


SSAlexSS said:



Ok I am sorry to say this, but stuff I am saying isnt getting through some people's heads.

That post is reply to Zulu. Zulu being a newbie he is, started being too aggressive because of simple fact that the article didnt prescribe a specific sets/reps/days.

Answer is simple, different genetics. Apparently zulu being a newbie beleives in one (or few) programs work for all. Or he is just too 'new' to be able to find a program that suits him.

no need for me to continue replying....

What i wrote that "it is wrong
 
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