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Bros! Serious shit to think about here.

I once read somewhere, "America has the healthiese toilets in the world." Implying all the vitamins and supplements people take are found in the sewer systems. Most people do not even digest the stuff they take. I just take the protein powders since they are already broken down. I am not a scientist or anything but hell, some of the supplement companies dont even know what a scientist is either. Some of them are ran out of a basement and they steal research that someone has done on a certain product and somehow tie it to their product and try to push it that way. Just my 2 cents.

Here is a clip of one of the online books George Spellwin sells and I bought it. It basically says the supplement industry is built on deception and fraud.

"This is a story that had to be told. As most everyone who has been involved with bodybuilding for any appreciable amount of time knows, the business of supplements has a history fraught with deceit and deception. The very term "snake oil," a colloquial expression used to describe any fraudulent product, stems from the days of the traveling salesman of the nineteenth century who sold "tonics" and "elixirs" to gullible townsfolk with the promise of increased vigor and vitality. The marketing strategies of today's hucksters may be more sophisticated, but the message is the same. If you want more (fill in the blank... Muscle? Hair? Stamina? Sex?), then BUY THIS PRODUCT! When people are hopeful to the point of desperation for a specific desire, they are willing to take desperate measures to obtain that desire. That often means paying "any price." And the people doing the selling know this. That's why they pay famous athletes millions to endorse their products. But isn't it dumb to believe a new product is responsible for the athletes past successes? Nevertheless, the ploy works.

Nowhere is this premise more prevalent than in the industry of bodybuilding supplements. We've seen them come - and we've seen them go. Ambiguous terms like "adaptagens" and "metabolic optimizers" that were major "buzz words" just a few years back, appear amusingly quaint compared to the more scientific terminology currently in vogue. Then again, it's a good bet that ten years from now, we may all be laughing at how seriously we debated the superiority of ion-exchanged ultra low temperature bio-available micro-encapsulated protein with non-denatured triple cross flow filtrated long chained oligopeptide bonded enzymically hydrolyzed protein isolate! "

Try this: Stop all supplementation -- eat and train as you normally do -- and every week use $100 worth of one supplement. Keep it up for 6 weeks. Then get back to me on how much muscle you put on.

Bottom line: Most bodybuilding supplements are a joke. Having said that, I should say, I'm a big believer in supplementing vitamins, minerals and antioxidants, but it's mostly for health purposes. I also sincerely believe that many herbs can be useful for specific conditions. But the only substance that builds muscle is protein. And that comes in a tasty and convenient version called food. Try it sometime. You'll like it.
 
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I don't know kids, but I will tell you that in the early eighties people would take deca 800-1g ew and dbol 50ed or 100, no pct, no anti-es, no supps, joe weider protein, and many of us have normal children, normal test levels, low cholesterol, fine livers (myself for one). The human body is frankly very resiliant. You probably just need test and a good diet to grow, I believe sometimes. I still rarely use anti-es, but I do take pct more seriously now. I never use that other stuff you talk about carth, but then again, I don't look that good. Also, the average gym guy back then didn't really look as "buff" as the average muscle&fitness kid at the gym does today. So I do think there is something to this modern technology. I think it raises the bar on the level of "mediocre", but doesn't assist much for the genetically gifted. 2c from the past.
 
something we are all losing site of is the fact that those guys were genetic freaks, so they could grow without much of anything. Take Coleman, that guy could take very little anything, and still be way bigger than any of the rest of us could ever get. Genetics play a huge role.
At my gym there is a back dude that I train with, he has a flex wheeler kind of build, wicked muscle shape and awesome size. yet I have never seen him sweat or even try that hard, i can outlift him in everything, hands down, yet I would never want to pose against him. And I know for a fact that he is natural most of the time, and when he is on, its on next to nothing
 
Rod555 said:
Off topic but holy shit carth, your back looks f**ckin huge in that avatar. Thats serious shape bro, Good work. The tattoo sets it off too!!

Is it important to take vitimin sups then? i dont really eat enough fruit and veg, will it hinder gains if i dont get enough V?

LOL thanks bro! But not to brag or anything. But you haven't seen shit yet. I'm just starting to make my comeback into this game. I lost a lot size in the past few months. That back that you see in the avatar could've been bigger and more defined if I didn't lose so much weight in the past and if I had better gear to use.
 
It's always been my contention that supps are a waste of money. Look at it in these terms, supps have been around for more than 30 years. Which ones beside protein have stood the test of time. None really stand out as necessary. Back in the day people wasted their money on liver tabs & amino acids - they just threw their money away. Five years ago I'm sure there were other "hot" supps that are gone. They just come and go.
 
napoli235 said:
if you take gear, you don't need those supplements you mentioned. the only supplements i use are whey protein, multi-v, and omega-3's.


Totally Disagree. Creatine, Glutamine, R-ala, All assist in recovery, strength gains, aswell as some protection to organs (rala).
 
I use gear, whey protein, multivitamins & flax seed oil.
cheap .. cheap .. cheap ... cheap

To me, anything else is not worth it for the price.
 
John G said:
Totally Disagree. Creatine, Glutamine, R-ala, All assist in recovery, strength gains, aswell as some protection to organs (rala).

Another clip from a book George Spellwin sold to me:

"Think glutamine works? Why? Because you've been told so? Get the facts straight first. Every study on glutamine ever cited involves trauma patients, but what works on someone with a debilitating condition doesn't necessarily work on a healthy individual. Glutamine can be of value in some instances but it must remain stable and free from moisture or it will degrade which in turn may raise ammonia levels in the bloodstream. Didn't know that, did you?"

Also, creatine, you can get that from food. Red meat!!
 
Well, Dan Duchaine said it best when asked why use drugs instead of supplements:

Drugs work!, are cheaper than most supplemnents and the results are predictable for the most part

He did also reccommend protein, multi-vitamins and EFA's

I think all of the above are correct but anti-oxidants, glutamine, creatine & R-ala have all proven to work in certain situations when used in the rights - mostly to aid in reocovery or boost the effectiveness of drugs

Persoanlly I have used thousands of dollars of supplemts and got minimal results except some did work for fat loss. I think of the cycles I could run if I had that money back!!!!!! It was the ineffectivenss of supplements, averge-to bleow average genetcis and scientific curiosity that lead me to anabolics

S
 
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