Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Guinness5.0]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Anyway, lot of ideas and some cautionary points for you to consider but that should get you going and thinking in the right direction.

Thanks. I like the idea of working out 4 days/week, and I really like this scenario:
Some girl- "Hey Guinness, what are you going to do today?"

Me- "Low snatch pulls."

Seriously though, I like the speed dl's off plates for a weds. squat sub. This would not be an all-out movement right? Just something to keep the volume up for loading purposes and help w/ a bit of explosive power?

Also, I'm guessing gm's and clean pulls on the same day would not be a good idea. Correct?

For my 4 week acclimiation mini-cycle, how's this look:
M-Squat warmup to 3x5 (keeping it rather light, but not easy), Bench 3x5, GM 5x5 (light w/ emphasis on form, but with the goal of moving the weight up during the four weeks), abs
W- low snatch pull, standing military, clean-grip high pull, pullups
F- repeat monday
OR:
M-same
T- same as wed. above
Th- repeat monday
F- repeat tues

I was thinking this would get me some practice and give me a better feel for my pulling tolerance (and just maybe increase it?) and based on that run I could plan out a longer cycle.

Also (a bit off topic)- which do you think has better carryover to bench: push press or strict military? I've been doing 'em strict and just wondered if push would be better.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I read in purepower mag that you can do deads off a block at 55% 1RM pulling fast to help your starts. I can't remember all the details offhand.

I tried them with a reebok stepper at the suggestion of someone here and it worked perfectly.

 

[|D_J^B_J|]

I have been doing Bill Starr's beginner's 5 x 5 naturally for about 2 - 3 months now and was wondering if you think I should lower the intensity on DLs for a week or substitute them with another exercise?

I've been lifting seriously for 6-7 months now. I began at 115 lbs , and am now at 145 lbs while still below 10% BF.

My pulling weight is still increasing each workout and at the moment I am pulling 215 for 5 reps in my final set.

So, should I lower the intensity this week or wait until the weight stalls?

P.S. There are 2.2 lbs in 1 kg, correct? We're on the metric system here so I'm not sure if the weights I listed were correct... Just thought I'd make it easier for you yanks.

 

[blut wump]

Impressive gains.

There are 2.2046226lbs in a Kilo which is very close to 2.2lbs but the Americans add an extra pound for each 20Kg. It's not unreasonable, since the 20Kg plates say 45lbs on them, but it makes the calculation a bit wilder.

As such:
bar + 1 plate each end = 60Kg = 132lbs + 3 = 135
bar + 2 plates each end = 100Kg = 220lbs + 5 = 225
bar + 3 plates each end = 140Kg = 308lbs + 7 = 315
... just keep adding 90.

Of course, on bodyweight, rather than lifting weights, use the 2.2 without the 1lb fudge.

Edit: It's also possible that the weights actually are 45lbs rather than 20Kg in which case they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. I keep meaning to check a plate to see what it weighs.

 

[Madcow2]

I have been doing Bill Starr's beginner's 5 x 5 naturally for about 2 - 3 months now and was wondering if you think I should lower the intensity on DLs for a week or substitute them with another exercise?

I've been lifting seriously for 6-7 months now. I began at 115 lbs , and am now at 145 lbs while still below 10% BF.

My pulling weight is still increasing each workout and at the moment I am pulling 215 for 5 reps in my final set.

So, should I lower the intensity this week or wait until the weight stalls?

P.S. There are 2.2 lbs in 1 kg, correct? We're on the metric system here so I'm not sure if the weights I listed were correct... Just thought I'd make it easier for you yanks.

If everything is going up just keep at it. You didn't list any possible reasons you were feeling this way so I'm not sure I have all the info

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Seriously though, I like the speed dl's off plates for a weds. squat sub. This would not be an all-out movement right? Just something to keep the volume up for loading purposes and help w/ a bit of explosive power?

Speed deads tend to be done fairly lightly, in either case you regularly pull deads on Wed for 5x5 so this isn't solely a good reason to sub out the squat unless there are most exercises to include. The squat is very important to increasing the DL especially if you have problems at the bottom.

Also, I'm guessing gm's and clean pulls on the same day would not be a good idea. Correct?

It can be good or bad. Probably not horrible though. It really depends upon you and the conditoining of your back.

For my 4 week acclimiation mini-cycle, how's this look:
M-Squat warmup to 3x5 (keeping it rather light, but not easy), Bench 3x5, GM 5x5 (light w/ emphasis on form, but with the goal of moving the weight up during the four weeks), abs
W- low snatch pull, standing military, clean-grip high pull, pullups
F- repeat monday
OR:
M-same
T- same as wed. above
Th- repeat monday
F- repeat tues

I was thinking this would get me some practice and give me a better feel for my pulling tolerance (and just maybe increase it?) and based on that run I could plan out a longer cycle.

I don't think you'd have to cut your squat volume as much as you think for this with the amount of pulling you have in there although you might want to do 5x5 and 1x5 on the reverse of the goodmorning. Or if GMs are 5x5 on two days, you can do them heavier on the 1x5 squat days. The squat is important to DL power and you don't have so much pulling. If you saw Starr's layout from that issue of PLUSA, you'd probably choke.

I also like your 4 day layout. In addition to GMs, you need to be pulling from the floor fairly often and 1x per week just doesn't give you the frequency or workload you need.

Also (a bit off topic)- which do you think has better carryover to bench: push press or strict military? I've been doing 'em strict and just wondered if push would be better.

For most, push press although obviously working them both at different times of the year depending upon your needs might be the best solution.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Thanks bro. This should be a fun month- lots of new exercises to learn.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Thanks bro. This should be a fun month- lots of new exercises to learn.

FYI - if you don't know how to do the OL's that book Starting Strength has a pretty massive writeup on the clean. I'm not sure whether you ordered it or whether it was Jim Ouini - thinking it was him. Dreschler's Weightlifting Encyclopedia also has a ton of technique info on both the clean and snatch (there is a write up of the snatch in my TOC also).

Another option is to check out www.usaweightlifting.org and see if there's a coach in your area. Very cheap (sometimes free) and friendly.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

FYI - if you don't know how to do the OL's that book Starting Strength has a pretty massive writeup on the clean. I'm not sure whether you ordered it or whether it was Jim Ouini - thinking it was him. Dreschler's Weightlifting Encyclopedia also has a ton of technique info on both the clean and snatch (there is a write up of the snatch in my TOC also).

Another option is to check out www.usaweightlifting.org and see if there's a coach in your area. Very cheap (sometimes free) and friendly.

Actually I have an EXCELLENT resource for the OLY lifts at my gym- there is a married couple that competes in lots of OLY meets and are extremely helpful (I raised my dl PR by 60 pounds the first time she helped me, and he's a physical therapist) so I'll be sure to have them watch me for a while.

Also, which would be better to do along w/ the low snatch pulls: power cleans or high pulls? Does it matter much or will they have a similar effect?

Oh and I tried to order the book at work but the security settings in place wouldn't let me. I'll order it today.

 

[Madcow2]

Well, high pulls can be done heavier and low clean pulls heavier than that. Generally 100-110% of your best clean. The power clean is going to be more difficult to learn and you won't be using as heavy a weight. Technique should be the same though and to be honest, doing a lot of heavy high pulls and training bad technique makes it harder to fix down the road. If these people would be kind enough to help you learn the lifts one or two days (pay them if you need to) it would really save you some pain later on. These are not simple to learn on your own, actually, learning on your own is the best way to develop some horid technical flaws and greatly limiting the weight you can handle. If they teach you the full clean that will be sufficient - generally the power version will stem from there (learning power first is a not so wise move, I'm a prime example of this) as will the high and low pull variants. Learning to snatch would also be a massive bonus. Good instruction is worth paying for if you have the means, believe me - a relatively small investment will pay massive dividends for years in your training.