Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[|D_J^B_J|]

Question for Madcow:

I have been doing the beginners 5x5 for about 2 months now (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15), and was wondering whether it's time for me to switch to a new style of training?

I don't think I require periodized training as yet because I'm still essentially a beginner, but I was thinking of trying Animal Mass's 5x5 which requires a 5x5 on the Monday lifts and a 1x5 on the Friday lifts working to a target weight.

Would it be beneficial to switch to that routine for a couple of months?

 

[blut wump]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Why would you bother trying to down a gallon of milk in a day?

EDIT: Read the link. Great, he can down a gallon of milk in fifteen minutes. What a wonderful feat. I'm sure the guy knows his stuff, but that was a pretty stupid thing to throw in there, as if it makes him special.

"Holy crap, did you see that!? 16 glasses of milk in fifteen minutes! That's more than a glass a minute! We should totally listen to him!"

Hey, it's not as impressive as it might sound. It was probably only an American gallon which is only 80% of an Imperial gallon. Still, with a decent dual-factor program, you have to leave something in the tank. I'm sure he could have managed an Imperial gallon during a max-effort week.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I just received Starting Strength in the mail today. I paged through it, it's pretty awesome.

 

[siamesedream]

Alright, I finished figuring out where I should start on all of the exercises as of next Monday, but I still got a few questions for you, madcow.

1. I do resistance cardio with recumbent bikes and would like to do them every day, would this interfere with recovery from the squats and deadlifts?

2. I weigh 217 pounds and have a bad BMI. One of the consequences of that is that I can't do more than 1 dip. Is there a possible substitute exercise for this and, if not, what should I do? Close-grip benching? Decline benching?

3. How long can this novice program last? I'm absolutely loving it right now as I'm using more power in my workouts than ever before. The reason I ask is, I have a friend who's been working out for quite some time and he benches 600 pounds and is only a college sophomore. I asked him what his routine is and, apparently, he's using the same single-factor 5x5 routine that I'm starting officially next Monday.

 

[TheOak84]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Why would you bother trying to down a gallon of milk in a day?

EDIT: Read the link. Great, he can down a gallon of milk in fifteen minutes. What a wonderful feat. I'm sure the guy knows his stuff, but that was a pretty stupid thing to throw in there, as if it makes him special.

"Holy crap, did you see that!? 16 glasses of milk in fifteen minutes! That's more than a glass a minute! We should totally listen to him!"

well, at 6 meals a day, thats about 3 glasses per meal, which isnt bad at all.

i didnt mean in one sitting.. thatd be stupid to me.. i dont wanna puke.

but just in general, drink more milk.. i dont drink any.

 

[lavi]

Powershrug question

If you can use even more weight on powershrugs than on DLs, wouldnt powershrugs overload your back even more? I ask this because my lower back takes about 4 days to recover from heavy deadlifts. I know the whole GM/powerclean/powershrug combo aims to avoid the CNS fatigue from deadlifts while building the deadlift, but i wonder if it also addresses my issue with muscular fatigue and recovery. I would think I would have the same problem with powershrugs, no?

 

[Topside]

just got the strongest shall survive and one of starr's programs uses what he calls the big three being squat, bench, and power clean working those 3 days a week. Im thinking once i finish the next run of madcow's 5x5 of trying out something like:

Mon: squat, bench, power cleans or rows
wed: squat, inclines, rows or power cleans
fri: squat, bench, power cleans or rows

maybe alittle assistant work here or there

 

[Madcow2]

Question for Madcow:

I have been doing the beginners 5x5 for about 2 months now (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15), and was wondering whether it's time for me to switch to a new style of training?

I don't think I require periodized training as yet because I'm still essentially a beginner, but I was thinking of trying Animal Mass's 5x5 which requires a 5x5 on the Monday lifts and a 1x5 on the Friday lifts working to a target weight.

Would it be beneficial to switch to that routine for a couple of months?

There is no Animalmass 5x5, they are all exactly the same program.

If you want to add some volume you can add some volume, the periodized one has enough volume to overtrain someone who isn't managing it so that means it's too much for most experienced lifters and too much for a beginner. Change the rep scheme or some such for what you are doing if you want. Read Pendlay's description of Rippetoe's squatting template in the TOC is you want to get an idea on how they scale volume over time. To be honest, I'd hammer the program you are doing for quite a while longer. Wait until you get a bit stale, take a break, start the weights lower and push on it again.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I typically get half a gallon of milk in a day. A little more, actually - nine glasses. The only issue I had with this was the bloating it tended to cause, albeit slight. I found a way to remedy that, though. 2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar before each of my shakes!

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=15295&pid=239924&st=90&#entry239924

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=12;t=1063

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Powershrug question

If you can use even more weight on powershrugs than on DLs, wouldnt powershrugs overload your back even more? I ask this because my lower back takes about 4 days to recover from heavy deadlifts. I know the whole GM/powerclean/powershrug combo aims to avoid the CNS fatigue from deadlifts while building the deadlift, but i wonder if it also addresses my issue with muscular fatigue and recovery. I would think I would have the same problem with powershrugs, no?

The strict powershrug has a very small range of motion and doesn't load the lower back too heavily. When people want to substitute a dynamic pulling variation into the 5x5 generally they are doing it from a lower position, increasing ROM, and turning it into more of a heavy clean pull from the traditional hang position (just above knees). This is more fatiguing but it's not like you can add even the regular powershrug with no consequences, it's still a damn heavy movement, it just doesn't pound the lower back as badly or fatigue the CNS to near the same extent as deads for an experienced lifter.