Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Your squat will get better. You had to take a hit here too for the depth. If it wasn't now it would be later and it's only going to help you so best to bite the bullet and get it over with. My advice would be to take a picture now and take one 6 and 12 months hence. You will have rock solid lifts, a great foundation with a lot more muscle, and be a powerhouse compared to your former self.
Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!
- Thread starter BionicBC
- Start date
Do you think this program is good to run while training for a DII basketball team. I start on monday running 3 miles 3 days a week, and then doing stations consisting of line jumps, jumping rope, defensive slides, sprints, and 17s (running from baseline to baseline 17 times in under a min). To gain weight obviously i'd have to eat like a mad man, but aside from gaining weight how do you think the 5x5 will fair thrown into my bball program.
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
Topside said:
is that a regular basket ball off season training regimen? I would think that lots and lots of sprints would be the way to go? And bleacher work. I have done that before spent a lot of time running long distance. I felt awesome when my body finally got use to it. But I went to play basketball thinking I would blow them away. And I died. Ha ha..
I would think you would at least change up and do sprints too. Just a though I don’t have much knowledge on the whole deal though.. CoolColJ has a couple good threads he is more focused on basket ball and vertical leap. But I am sure this would work very good also.. To make you a rebounding monster.
It's a good program regardless but take a look at the spectrum of athletes. Your classic endurance runner, a marathoner, vs. a classic non-endurance sport, a weightlifter. You are feeding your body stimuli that are polar opposites. So go ahead and run it, eat a lot but the reason for seasons and periodization is so that you allow for better adaptation and only ask your body to do one thing at a time (for the most part). So, it's still going to be a good program but if you are all about getting as strong as possible and as big as possible, obviously you might leave something on the table. Still, 3 days a week and relatively short workouts, it's tough to beat that when involved in a more time consuming sport.
Boss101
New member
My comments are in bold.
Something that strikes me as a bit odd. Did you try to increase your lifts week to week or did you start light and scale upward meeting previous records around the first record week i.e. 2nd to last week of volume phase, and then surpass that record in the next week? You should be scaling so records. I'm not sure whether you are doing this or not but the way you phrased I figured I'd bring it up.
The first time I ran the cycle I put my best record for all lifts in week 3. I ramped up to that record matching it in week 3 then trying to beat in week 4.
My best 5x5 on the BB Row was 200lbs I ramped like this,
week 1 - 170
week 2 - 185
week 3 - 200
week 4 - 210
Also, how did the training go? Did you feel overwhelmed by the end of loading, did you feel recouped by the beginning of week 7 (i.e. week 5 deload, week 6 first 3x3)? I need a bit more info here. If you have a log and want to post it on the 5x5 thread that would be better the PMing the whole thing to me.
At the end of the volume phase I didn't feel overwhelmed like some people say in the 5x5 thread. I wasn't thinking thank god its time to deload. What I noticed was as the weeks were going on I was feeling more fresh in the gym like I was recovering during the program. Weeks 1-2 were a bit hard and I was worrying that I wasn't going to beat my records in week 4. Once I got to week 5 and on every day in the gym was getting better, stronger more energy. Before I started the routine my appetite was down, trouble sleeping, tired during the day, moody now its the opposite I feel great. I started the program at 185lbs from weeks 1-6 I put on 1-2lbs, I weighed myself Saturday morning and I weigh 195lbs now. 8lbs in the last 3 weeks, my abs are still there no real change in bf% at all.
Another thing is your state of fatigue before beginning the program or whether you weren't able to get the rebound.
When I started the program I was using standard bbing splits for over 6 months with no breaks from training just heavy lifting all the time. I'm going to deload again I'm thinking I was overtrained before starting the routine and I didn't get as much as I could from it. I really screwed up this first cycle when I think about it now I should have ran a 6 week loading peroid instead of 4 weeks.
To be honest, it's hard to tell from the limited info and comparing yourself to others isn't always the best since some of them might be at different relative levels of their absolute max strength (ie. the most they are ever likely to lift at their weight). Gains come a lot slower with experience and the fact that most of these guys gain strength during the volume phase tells me right there that they could likely use a good single factor program (i.e. the novice version of this) and probably net out equal and maybe even better results in some cases.
I would plan on giving it another run through. I would absolutely deload again because we need to ensure that you are starting fresh this time. I'd advise 1-2 weeks of training 2x per week, just use medium weights (i.e. 55-65% 1RM), only the core lifts, no lift more than twice a week, and use a range of 3x3. I want you to be super fresh. We can also experiment with a longer loading period.
Something that strikes me as a bit odd. Did you try to increase your lifts week to week or did you start light and scale upward meeting previous records around the first record week i.e. 2nd to last week of volume phase, and then surpass that record in the next week? You should be scaling so records. I'm not sure whether you are doing this or not but the way you phrased I figured I'd bring it up.
The first time I ran the cycle I put my best record for all lifts in week 3. I ramped up to that record matching it in week 3 then trying to beat in week 4.
My best 5x5 on the BB Row was 200lbs I ramped like this,
week 1 - 170
week 2 - 185
week 3 - 200
week 4 - 210
Also, how did the training go? Did you feel overwhelmed by the end of loading, did you feel recouped by the beginning of week 7 (i.e. week 5 deload, week 6 first 3x3)? I need a bit more info here. If you have a log and want to post it on the 5x5 thread that would be better the PMing the whole thing to me.
At the end of the volume phase I didn't feel overwhelmed like some people say in the 5x5 thread. I wasn't thinking thank god its time to deload. What I noticed was as the weeks were going on I was feeling more fresh in the gym like I was recovering during the program. Weeks 1-2 were a bit hard and I was worrying that I wasn't going to beat my records in week 4. Once I got to week 5 and on every day in the gym was getting better, stronger more energy. Before I started the routine my appetite was down, trouble sleeping, tired during the day, moody now its the opposite I feel great. I started the program at 185lbs from weeks 1-6 I put on 1-2lbs, I weighed myself Saturday morning and I weigh 195lbs now. 8lbs in the last 3 weeks, my abs are still there no real change in bf% at all.
Another thing is your state of fatigue before beginning the program or whether you weren't able to get the rebound.
When I started the program I was using standard bbing splits for over 6 months with no breaks from training just heavy lifting all the time. I'm going to deload again I'm thinking I was overtrained before starting the routine and I didn't get as much as I could from it. I really screwed up this first cycle when I think about it now I should have ran a 6 week loading peroid instead of 4 weeks.
To be honest, it's hard to tell from the limited info and comparing yourself to others isn't always the best since some of them might be at different relative levels of their absolute max strength (ie. the most they are ever likely to lift at their weight). Gains come a lot slower with experience and the fact that most of these guys gain strength during the volume phase tells me right there that they could likely use a good single factor program (i.e. the novice version of this) and probably net out equal and maybe even better results in some cases.
I would plan on giving it another run through. I would absolutely deload again because we need to ensure that you are starting fresh this time. I'd advise 1-2 weeks of training 2x per week, just use medium weights (i.e. 55-65% 1RM), only the core lifts, no lift more than twice a week, and use a range of 3x3. I want you to be super fresh. We can also experiment with a longer loading period.
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
That explains a lot and confirms what I was thinking to myself - it also jives with you struggling in the beginning and then feeling better and better all the time until you finally made some fast gains at the very end. I'm betting you were actually recovering a bit in the beginning of the loading period then ended up stalling out still partially loaded but not having the benefit of approaching the final two weeks of loading from being fresh and then just recovered from that point on. I was actually going to ask what you were doing before and whether you started the program fatigued but there's no need - you did. (EDIT - what a dope, I did ask that)
Still 10lbs and a lot of experience. Could have been worse. Take a nice light week or even two with low volume. You might also find yourself a lot stronger this time around so set your weights but be flexible and allow them to move as needed - even add an extra week to the loading period if you aren't really pushing hard by week 3. Judging from the previous experience it shouldn't overwhelm you as long as your aren't pounding at your current (at that time - not now) maximums for 3 weeks straight.
Boss101 said:
That explains a lot and confirms what I was thinking to myself - it also jives with you struggling in the beginning and then feeling better and better all the time until you finally made some fast gains at the very end. I'm betting you were actually recovering a bit in the beginning of the loading period then ended up stalling out still partially loaded but not having the benefit of approaching the final two weeks of loading from being fresh and then just recovered from that point on. I was actually going to ask what you were doing before and whether you started the program fatigued but there's no need - you did. (EDIT - what a dope, I did ask that)
Still 10lbs and a lot of experience. Could have been worse. Take a nice light week or even two with low volume. You might also find yourself a lot stronger this time around so set your weights but be flexible and allow them to move as needed - even add an extra week to the loading period if you aren't really pushing hard by week 3. Judging from the previous experience it shouldn't overwhelm you as long as your aren't pounding at your current (at that time - not now) maximums for 3 weeks straight.
Last edited:
Boss101
New member
Thank you Madcow, I'll take a light week and start back again. Theres nothing wrong with the way I ramp my weights right? During the volume phase I ramp each week by 15-20lbs and during the intensity phase by 5-10lbs.
This time for my BB Row I'm thinking something like this,
week 1 180lbs
week 2 205lbs
week 3 220lbs New Record
week 4 225-230lbs New Record
This time for my BB Row I'm thinking something like this,
week 1 180lbs
week 2 205lbs
week 3 220lbs New Record
week 4 225-230lbs New Record
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
im on my 7th week, today was really good, squat was moderate, last set felt the easiest. bench was rough, but i got the 3, rows was moderate, do i did 2x3
bb curl, same as rows, finished with 2 sets of heavy pressdowns, the stack +25 for 3.
im gonna lay out my current progress:
Squat|220 |230 |240 |250 |250 |270 |280 | | |
Bench|255 |265 |275 |285 |295 |305 |315 | | |
Row |205 |210 |225 |225 |245 |245 |245 | | |
Curl |85 |95 |125 |135 |145 |145 |135 | | |
Dead |220 |230 |240 |250 |250 |315 | | | |
Squat|175 |185 |195 |205 | x | x | x | x | x | x
OHP |120 |130 |150 |160 |160 |170 | | | |
Chin |bw |5 |10 | x | x |bw | | | | |
Squat|275 |285 |295 |315 |325 |335 | | | |
Bench|205 |215 |225 |245 |255 |265 | | | |
Row |160 |160 |170 |185 |195 | x | | | |
Shrug|275 |295 |315 |325 |315 |335 | | | |
the x means i skipped the exercise due to time or forgetfullness. i started too heavy on the pullups, seeing i got stalled on week 3
the 2nd time i do this will be much better, and more productive, especially for my back, which i misjudged myself on.
i predict the main 3 will still go up 10 pounds a week till the end, the shrugs are actually sets of 10
im on my 7th week, today was really good, squat was moderate, last set felt the easiest. bench was rough, but i got the 3, rows was moderate, do i did 2x3
bb curl, same as rows, finished with 2 sets of heavy pressdowns, the stack +25 for 3.
im gonna lay out my current progress:
Squat|220 |230 |240 |250 |250 |270 |280 | | |
Bench|255 |265 |275 |285 |295 |305 |315 | | |
Row |205 |210 |225 |225 |245 |245 |245 | | |
Curl |85 |95 |125 |135 |145 |145 |135 | | |
Dead |220 |230 |240 |250 |250 |315 | | | |
Squat|175 |185 |195 |205 | x | x | x | x | x | x
OHP |120 |130 |150 |160 |160 |170 | | | |
Chin |bw |5 |10 | x | x |bw | | | | |
Squat|275 |285 |295 |315 |325 |335 | | | |
Bench|205 |215 |225 |245 |255 |265 | | | |
Row |160 |160 |170 |185 |195 | x | | | |
Shrug|275 |295 |315 |325 |315 |335 | | | |
the x means i skipped the exercise due to time or forgetfullness. i started too heavy on the pullups, seeing i got stalled on week 3
the 2nd time i do this will be much better, and more productive, especially for my back, which i misjudged myself on.
i predict the main 3 will still go up 10 pounds a week till the end, the shrugs are actually sets of 10
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