Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Protobuilder]

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to anotherbutters again.

Great reply, AB.

He's exactly right, but I'll address a couple other issues.

I really don't see how, from a bodybuilding perspective, this can be a decent routine?

Directly, many people experience muscle growth on this program, if they eat right. Indirectly, improving your max strength levels means you'll be able to move more weight in the typical "hypertrophy" rep ranges. There's a reason you do sets of 5, rather than sets of 2 or sets of 10--five is a nice blend of tension, motor unit recruitment, and fatigue. Any good bodybuilding "plan" should involve periods of strength training and periods of pure hypertrophy. At the very least, the 5x5 can serve as your strength building phase.

I can see myself with decent legs and back, but with terrible arms and shoulders.

This tells me you're not very far along on the "bodybuilding" road. I've never met a bodybuilder w/ a few years of training that has had "terrible arms and shoulders." So, i assume you're just starting out. Which means you probably just need development overall, period. On the 5x5, you're hitting your shoulders heavily w/ flat benching & overhead pressing. And getting stronger at that military on Wednesday means you can come back later and rep out w/ heavier weights than before. That = hypertrophy. As for arms, getting stronger on the core movements (bench, row, chins) WILL make your arms stronger. I dropped BB curls during the 5x5 and was surprised to find that my curl weight had gone up by a good 10-15 pounds afterwards. Additionally, you'll have curls & skullcrushers or w/e on at least one day as assistance work. So, they'll be fine. Don't worry about 'hyooge gunz' if they're attached to a stick.

 

[Leather99]

bakks - I have just completed a cycle of 5x5 and your arms and shoulders get plenty of work mate. I didn't even bother with any of isolation work.

 

[Bakks]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Don't think of squats as purely a leg exercise. Squats will load most of the muscles in the body, so they help drive growth overall. That's why the program's based around them and why you squat so frequently. Also, you don't squat with an all out effort every session. There are heavy, light and medium days.

For the overhead press, just focus on adding a little bit to the bar every week. When I did my first run of the SF 5x5 last year, my OHP went from 34kg to 46kg (75lb -> 101lb) in 10 weeks. I too, never really felt much of an effort in the first 3 sets.

Your arms get indirect work from bench press, OHP, rows, deads and chins, plus any accessory work at the end of the week that you care to throw in (just 3x8). They'll grow to support the weight you're pulling with your back or pushing with your chest and shoulders. There's no way your arms won't grow whilst following this, assuming the program is matched to your current level of development.

Finally, if your legs don't feel fully recovered after Monday's squats, I assume you're sore because you've only just started the program. The first few weeks ought to be light as you ramp up the weights, so you shouldn't be that sore to start with. And after the first 2-3 weeks, you'll become conditioned to the frequency of squatting and you won't have any soreness at all.

When did you start the program and how heavy did you go in week 1 compared to what you're capable of? Give us some context - how old are you, what do you weigh, what do you squat, etc.

Hey mate thanks for your comments.

I've been training for nearly 3 yrs. By the terrible arms and shoulders comments I mean relative (to legs), not overall

I think I've got it sussed now, with the weights. I decided to use the advanced program - I think it will work better for me. I just needed some extra assurance from people who had actually completed the program. Cheers.

With lifts I've started off benching and squatting low 90 kg's, rowing a bit over 70, and deadlifting about 115, without too much difficulty. Hope I can get them to above 100, 130 and 80/90 odd respectively. Nothing huge but slowly slowly!

 

[Guinness5.0]

You really don't need the advanced program - you'll make better gains off the linear (intermediate) version.

 

[Bakks]

Is the Advanced program really for highly advanced trainers?

 

[Iron Chin]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

By its very nature, the advanced program is for advanced lifters. The idea is that when the linear progression stops working for you, you will need to move to the dual factor periodization with rest built into the system. It is the only way you will continue to make gains, albeit at a slower pace, and strength gains in the core lifts are the object of the entire program. You would really only want to move to the dual factor version when you absolutely have to since at that point your gains would come at a slower, more hard-fought pace.

Anyway, madcow addresses this stuff is in this thread and on his website. Although I understand this thread is daunting in its size. For me, anotherbutters summed it up very well in this post:

link

 

[Bakks]

Ok thanks for your help mate.

 

[blut wump]

What you eventually find is that simply going into the gym each week and trying to put a little more weight on the bar than the previous week just doesn't work any more or, at least, stops being an efficient way to progress as you fail week after week. Only then do you need to start with periodized workout programs.

If you've not read this article on planned overtraining, I strongly recommend it:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

 

[Canadian Iron]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

...

 

[Bakks]

Jeez, after only 3 or 4 weeks, my pec's are the best they've ever been, and bench has gone from an easyish 90 to a moderate 105 kg

Edit - 5 weeks actually. Chest has been the biggest improver, weight has gone from 82 to 85-86, looking leaner than before.