Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Slyder190]

There are more ways of deloading than dropping down to two workouts per week.

My own way of judging when loading is happening is that the sets and reps become more a matter of willpower than of strength. Whether you get loaded this week is mostly a matter of how hard you pushed yourself last week to make new 3x3 and 1x3 PRs and how hard you push this week. You might even finish the week not loaded in which case you have the choice of going to a tenth week or diving sraight back into a fresh week 1 and new program.

Assuming you do finish this week loaded, then it makes sense to take a recovery week. The essence of any recovery week is that you aren't working as hard as before it. That might involve dropping down to doubles rather than triples or it might involve dropping the weights down to 50% and doing some speed work.

Personally, I like to take a chance to work on some exercises I've missed out on for a while. Maybe do some front squats or incline DB work and a bit of arm work, which I tend to neglect usually. Maybe take a chance to work on some cleans. You get the idea.

Like madcow says, it entirely depends on how deeply you're into loading from the intensity phase and how long you, personally, take to recover from these last two weeks of the program. Given the enhanced recovery from being on a cycle, I'd expect that one week of lighter 8-10 rep work and some fresh exercises over two or three days as you see fit would leave you ready to dive straight back into a fresh run.

I kind of get more af an idea now. I know Blutwump that your very familiar with this routine. I might just keep a the volume the same as week 9 and drop the weight used, and maybe just hit doubles instead of triples. Then I'll go back in to loading again. Lookin forward to it. Only thing that sucks, I gotta be honest here, is the 100 warm up sets that have to be done for squats. I feel like I'm in the power rack for a day. I guess that's the price of lifting heavy, or lifting smart shall I say.

 

[Madcow2]

A lot of ways to do it but it boils down to less stress on the system (and not just weight training, everything imposes some kind of tax, i.e. marital strife/stress, but high intensity effort like max sprinting or weightlifting are big ones and more common here). Maybe that's lowering volume very significantly but raising intensity incrementally (maybe slash frequency too as this is the main differentiator in the two "canned" options for the peaking phase). Maybe that's everything lower. Maybe that's just the intensity. It depends on what you need and want to accomplish. In addition, one person's deloading might be very stressful for someone else with lower work capacity so this is really on you (just keep in mind anabolics increase your tolerances so what might be appropriate now might not work as a natural or might be suboptimal if you increase your dosage - which is why aside from all else drugs tend complicate this specifically for those without a good natural reference).

 

[Protobuilder]

I've been thinking about workload, volume, and hitting PRs on the SF 5x5 and I'm wondering about something -- if the goal on the SF 5x5 is hitting PRs on a regular basis, why not drop one or two of the easy earlier sets, the thought being you're not really getting much out of them and you'd have more gas in the tank to push harder on the last PR set? I don't mean skimp on warming up, I just mean that some of the 5x5 sets are pretty darn easy as you ramp up . . . and I don't fully understand the reasoning for keeping them. If you just want to get the extra workload/volume, you could just add a backoff set after your 5th set . . .

For example, here's my last squat progression: 5x95, 5x115, 5x135, 5x160, 3-5x180. I actually start w/ the bar, then do some light stretching, then go at it. But the 115 set seems like pretty much a throw-away set. I mean, if the point is to push the last set, I'm just trying to figure out why not reduce the volume by dropping a set or reducing the reps in some of the sets, etc., in order to push the 5th set farther. Like I said, if you're worried about losing the volume, you could add in a back-off set or something. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just trying to think it through.

I guess this is really just a question of why pyramid the weights. I know lots of people frown on pyramiding b/c you expend energy as you pyramid up to the real working sets. So some people recommend warming up, then maybe a few reps of increasing weight to get ready for heavier weights, then doing your worksets, and maybe pyramiding DOWN if you're into that kinda' thing. LoL

 

[Madcow2]

Well that's generally the first thing I suggest when it gets hard or a lift stalls in a linear setting, drop some of the early volume and just get up to weight, maybe that's 3x5 and maybe later that's 1x5 at the top until you can't go anymore. This can be especially helpful if in the case of one lift stalling before others, maybe it buys you a few weeks and keeps everything together. Maybe not As for the backoff set, usually there is at least some parity in your lifts so dropping some volume all around is probably a decent idea when things get very hard so you can go lift by lift and likely benefit from not adding in backoff sets as you will benefit from a bit less fatigue and maybe extend your progression a bit.

 

[Protobuilder]

So it's to be expected then, right? As PRs get harder, reducing the volume is part of the programming to keep the weights moving up. I guess I'm reaching that point in my squat, almost there w/ bench, but still chugging along on DL, militaries, and rows. Thanks for clarifying, madcow.

 

[Madcow2]

Yeah but don't cut volume just because you have to work hard, cut it because you need it to keep the progression going a bit longer.

 

[Protobuilder]

don't cut volume just because you have to work hard, cut it because you need it to keep the progression going a bit longer.

LoL Not a problem. If anything, I was thinking of reducing volume in the 'easy' sets in order to have more gas for the heavier sets.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

LoL Not a problem. If anything, I was thinking of reducing volume in the 'easy' sets in order to have more gas for the heavier sets.

That's what I meant, just don't do this before you really need to.

 

[Slyder190]

I'm actually takin a full week off as I just wrapped up week 9. My back has been botherin me, but I've been throwin back the Motrin before my workouts and gettin through them. The strength gains have been great, just like last time. But as i get heavier with the weight, it does take a toll on a sore back. Hopefully a week off and a few chiro visits will do the trick. Gonna be startin the volume phase again soon.

madcow, explain somethin to me. My last week, I nailed my 3RM max easy for bench, but for my 3x3RM I got one set for 2 reps and that was it. Why is that?

 

[blut wump]

That could simply be a matter of loading. As loading hits you, a drop in performance is not uncommon.

After my first 5x5 I went in the following week to set a new 1RM PR and couldn't even do a single with the weight from the 1x3 of the week9. This is why madcow has suggested taking an extra day as needed to recover through weeks 8 and 9 and some guys have even deliberately spread 8 and 9 over three weeks.