Big legs without squats or lunges?

[GrowthSpurt1]

I have always had alot of pain in my knee's but the last several month's it has gotten really bad, so bad I can hardly do my favorite Lifts which are squats and lunges (and especially hack squats). I can do leg press, Dead Lift's ect.... Is there a way I can get big legs without doing squat's and lunges?

 

[CitizenKane]

Squatting is the leg exercise that you are least likely to get knee pain from. Stay away from leg extensions, leg curls, etc. (and IMO hack squats can be pretty harsh on the knees, depending on the angle you use)

If you're getting sore knees from squatting, the most likely thing is that your form needs work. How do you squat? Low bar? High bar? Stance? Hip driven or dive bombing?

My suggestion would be go back to basics and sort your technique out, read Rippetoe's book and watch his vids! The squat is the most natural movement for human beings, we were built to do it.

Failing that, you could always get some knee wraps.

 

[GrowthSpurt1]

Been squatting for 15 years, I know my form is good, however recently with the extreme knee pain, I find myself favoring my left side over my right because the knee pain is worse on the right side, So I really have to concentrate more than I used too. I do parallel squats with my knee's at a 90 degree angle no dive bombing or anything like that. I'll check out Rippetoe's book and vids. I used knee wraps years ago, but now I squate much lighter and hate to use them for really light weight.

 

[NOLOGY77]

Squats are more than a leg exercise for me. i have some pain also in knees and lower back but i keep squatting even light weight it helps my whole body to develop especially abs. of course every person is different

 

[Rebecca D]

Over time squatting will wear on your knees and cause pain. Ask powerlifters in their elder years about knee pain. It isn't that the actual squat is causing the knee to damage, it is just that the knee will "wear out" with use. Putting heavy weight on your knees and squatting regularly for 20+ years contributes to that. At 42 I have just started to experience pain from my knees when I squat. For five years I have used 185lbs for 8-10 reps when I squat. Now I have lightened my weight to 95-135lbs tops and increased the reps to 20-25 reps. This has been a tremendous relief. At some point I may have to give up squatting but for now I will keep on with the light weight/high reps.

Rebecca D

 

[zedhed]

For all of you with knee pain. I have had extremely good results using Adequan. Google it it really is an amazing substance.
Also for some reason Back squats and Front squat hurt my knees. However my knees have never been good and have been painful most of my life. (doing any activity)
I have found that I can do Zercher squats. I dont know why they work for me but they do. So what I am saying here is try any method that you can think of, something just might work for you.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Squatting strengthens the knees if performed properly.

I would bet money if I saw some of your guys squat form there would be flaws regardless how perfect you think your form is.

The 2 oldest powerlifter's I know are around 50 and there's nothing wrong with their knee's and they have been lifting for 20+ years. Both have squatted over 700 and one of them has squatted close to 900.

I used to think my form was spot on and developed knee pain. Then I started training with these guys who are real sticklers for technique and my knee pain has gone away.

I'm not saying lifting huge ass weights isn't possibly gonna wear on your knees, but 9 times out of 10 if you are blaming knee pain on squats then your form sucks.

P.S. I've seen so-called certified trainers of various levels that did not know how to teach the squat properly. Sure it looked decent enough, but there are alot of things to look for and something as simple as how you descend can have an impact on your knees when you're told to sit down and back when in fact you should be squatting straight down with both the knees and hips going down at relative speeds.

 

[Tblock1]

Squatting strengthens the knees if performed properly.

I would bet money if I saw some of your guys squat form there would be flaws regardless how perfect you think your form is.

The 2 oldest powerlifter's I know are around 50 and there's nothing wrong with their knee's and they have been lifting for 20+ years. Both have squatted over 700 and one of them has squatted close to 900.

I used to think my form was spot on and developed knee pain. Then I started training with these guys who are real sticklers for technique and my knee pain has gone away.

I'm not saying lifting huge ass weights isn't possibly gonna wear on your knees, but 9 times out of 10 if you are blaming knee pain on squats then your form sucks.

P.S. I've seen so-called certified trainers of various levels that did not know how to teach the squat properly. Sure it looked decent enough, but there are alot of things to look for and something as simple as how you descend can have an impact on your knees when you're told to sit down and back when in fact you should be squatting straight down with both the knees and hips going down at relative speeds.

Yeah I agree. I've never had an injury from squats and deadlift, even though my form is not the greatest on either. If anything my knees are much healthier from squatting.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Squatting strengthens stabilizers and the ligaments around your knee better than anything else. Squats also require a certain level of balance and flexibility.

Not only that, but properly performed they lubricate the knee joint and strengthen the knee through it's full range of motion. The knees should optimally be working in unison with the hamstrings, glutes and spinal erectors for maximum benefit.

Pretty much every muscle would optimally be working in addition to other muscles. Any kind of physical activity or sport uses the entire body. Isolation work has it's merits, but compound exercises should be the staple and anything else should be accessory to it regardless whether you are a powerlifter, bodybuilders, weightlifter, strongman or athlete of any kind.

Obviously if you have a condition or injury that prevents you from squatting then leg presses are a good substitute. If you are healthy though no other exercise will benefit you more than squats performed properly. This has been said a million times going back to the 40's and 50's.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

ive been able to acheive my quad size without squating

i use to squat, built it up to 660X1 rep, but although it did work, in my experience squating is over rated

ive actually acheived better leg development through leg presses and deadlift combo, which exceeded squating by far

squats are great no doubt, but there not a nessecity like some people brag about

so the whole YOU HAVE TO SQUAT for big legs isnt true, and im living proof

u should add them in just because they are the one execise that stimulates test production the most (from what ive researched and read - not 100% sure on this)

But as far as BIG legs, you dont need squats probably. IMHO they will help a lot. All I do for legs (and im on cycle) are squats and leg curls (and deadlifts on back day)

 

[GrowthSpurt1]

I do agree that squats are the single best excercise for your body. I should have clarified this. I'm not suggesting that the squats hurt my knee's originally. about 12 years ago, I tore some cartlage in both knee's back in the football days (not at the same time) and I never had them scoped or fixed because I had a hard core trainer that said it would go away over time so I should not worry about it. They have bothered me ever since, but the last year (primarily the last 3 months) have been bad. I have already dropped down to 135 for reps of about 20-25, but now even that kills my knee's.I just feel like it's over for me and I don't know what to do. It's killing me to think that I may have to give up the best excerise ever. I've even tried them on the smith machine with no luck.

 

[CitizenKane]

Well the last thing I would do is try them on the smith machine, because that will place you in a completely unnatural position with the bar in a fixed plane of motion (unlike actual squatting) and will be even worse for your knees!

You say you know your form is good, but everybody can benefit from rethinking their form now and again. For example I asked you what style of squat you had, and you just gave a very vague response along the lines of that you squat 'to 90 degrees'. This suggests that you don't really know what I'm talking about when I asked you about your bar position: When you squat the bar will always be in line with your feet, if it isn't then you will either fall backwards or forwards. Using a high bar position therefore means that in order for the bar to stay in line with your feet your back must be pretty much vertical. This takes virtually all posterior chain activation out of your squat and transfers much more of the stress to your quads and directly onto your knees.

If you use a low bar position, however, in order for the bar to stay in line with your feet you are forced to lean forward more, transferring much of the movement to your hips and posterior chain. If you're doing it correctly, you are not just sitting down into a squat position and standing up again, you are sitting BACK as well as down.

That's not to say low-bar squatting is categorically safer on your knees, because olympic weightlifters use the high bar style as it mimics their competition lifts more closely, as well as front squats etc, and a lot of their knees seem to be fine. But bear in mind their training will generally use higher frequency but a lot lower load, they will not be squatting near their max all that often. If you are squatting to failure regularly (ie. once a week or more) then I definitely think low-bar squatting is easier on the knees.

 

[CitizenKane]

By the way I realise I'm kind of going off topic a bit, because you are asking if you can build a good set of legs without squatting. I don't really know the answer to that, because I've never not squatted, but I'm sure you would be able to provide a sufficient stimulus for growth by whatever method you choose to hypertrophy your legs, ie. leg pressing, leg extensions, etc. as long as you are getting enough kcals to grow overall. But all I'm saying is you shouldn't rule out squats quite yet! You obviously understand what a good exercise they are and don't want to stop doing them, so I'm just suggesting you completely rethink your technique and give them a go again before you give up on them entirely

 

[the.gladiator1987]

I agree with citizen kane, jus since they are one of the bst exercises all around, you should get somebody that knows their shit to correct your form. Get a PL or someone that knows what theyre talking about. Most of us dont have perfect form, but our knees can still handle it as long as your form is pretty damn good.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

One great thing about squats is the 'MAN POWER" they give you.

Ya that sounds real corny, but it's true. It's something leg presses won't give.

I remember wrestling a buddy of mine one time and out of nowhere another guy jumps onto my back. Literally runs and jumps onto my back while I'm facing off the other guy. He weighed an average 175lbs and when he landed on my back I barely noticed it. I kept squaring off against my buddy for like half a minute just ignored the guy hanging off my back. We were all laughing at this ridiculous scenario.

MAN POWER. Deadlifts and squats develop this. Also known as Superman strength. AS in fuck with this and you get picked up and superman'd into the floor type strength.

Corny, but true.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

lol bro wat am i going to stimulate wen i inject 400mg a week?

sometimes your just off the ball man

still love you though

lol ull produce 410mg bro!

 

[GrowthSpurt1]

I agree with citizen kane, jus since they are one of the bst exercises all around, you should get somebody that knows their shit to correct your form. Get a PL or someone that knows what theyre talking about. Most of us dont have perfect form, but our knees can still handle it as long as your form is pretty damn good.

One of the guys I train with is a 2 time national BB champion, the other is a guy that came very close to turning pro, and another is a powerlifter. We all agree that my form is good except when I start having knee pain I favor one side which I was already aware of. I currently use a High bar position, a while back I used a low bar position and I think I will go back to that after hearing some of these responses. That sounds like good advice, trying different techniques, hopefully one will ease the knee pain.