BFold and other Westsiders... Bench routine

[mekannik]

Currently back doing a Poliquin bench program, which includes
Warmup
Bar x 8
135 x 5
185 x 3
225 x 1
265 x 1
Neural
305 x 1 x 4 (add 1 extra set each week you make all prior singles until 8, then add 5% and start over at 4)

Hypertrophy
275 x 5 x 5


QUESTION: Again- I'm having pain/soreness in my left pec/shoulder tie in (more to the front of the body). Instead of doing this routine twice a week (i.e. Wednesday & Saturday) - should I opt for a "westside" speed workout on an alternate day (185-205 x 3 x 8)?

Would this better aid my recovery and advancement?


Appreciate the input.

 

[b fold the truth]

How would this help you?

The problem that I have with the routine above is that I can't see the importance of every rep of every set that you have listed above. I can't see how or why it is going to give you a big chest or a strong bench press...

With the full WSB routine...I can.

B True

 

[mekannik]

From what I can remember Poliquin writing:
the Neural is at 90-95% of your max - with a gradual increase in volume.

The Hypertrophy (5x5) is self explanatory.


I have used this program twice before and made good jumps in my bench - but my pec/shoulder tie-in seems to suffer. That's why I was wondering if the 3x8 sets would aid or not.

 

[spatts]

Speed is always an asset for bench. Are you benching out wide or elbows in? Close grip or wide? Sounds like you need to stabalize the upper back and reduce shoulder rotation. This is why you can't put up big numbers benching like a BB...not without losing a shoulder, anyway.

 

[mekannik]

Spatts,

Using a wide grip (index on the groove of the knurling). Take into consideration I am 6'2". As for my elbows - I have been "keeping them in" - more along the lines of 45 degrees to the body rather than flared out to side.

I incorporate 3x8 on my box squat inside of my snatch routine - so I understand and appreciate the need for speed. My query centers around using the 3x8 day for both speed and recuperation - since it's more volume than load. Hence - a little less wear on the tie-in and some carry over to the next heavy day.


What's the prototypical WBB bench day(s) rep scheme(s)?
STRIKE THIS COMMENT - I HAVE THE ARTICLES ON THE WEB REGARDING SPEED/MAX EFFORT DAYS.

 

[spatts]

Are you referring to doing 3 x 8 for active recovery?

 

[b fold the truth]

When you do the Speed Work like it should be done (with accomodating resistance) it is VERY taxing and hard.

Also, I am 6'2" with VERY long arms and my widest grip on the bench is pinky on the power ring...

B True

 

[mekannik]

BFold - point taken. But at the same time - if you are using 60% of your max (even at MAX speed) - the overall stress is less than working consecutively within the 90-95% range.


Spatts - yes, more towards the active recovery.

 

[spatts]

I use jumpstretch bands for that.

 

[b fold the truth]

BFold - point taken. But at the same time - if you are using 60% of your max (even at MAX speed) - the overall stress is less than working consecutively within the 90-95% range.


Spatts - yes, more towards the active recovery.

Using the bands are much harder than using the 90-95% range. You also use 60% of your 1RM plus the bands.

B True

 

[spatts]

The point of the bands is that it will speed recovery WITHOUT eccentric motion, thus building strength and size without the risk of reripping the muscle fibers (eccentric phase) that interferes with the healing necessary for hypertrophy.

 

[Haz]

I've always thought that a wide grip was used when going for max lifts. Do you powerlifters reccommend using a narrow or medium grip instead? Right now I use a medium grip (middle finger on power ring), but I figured the wider the grip, the less the bar has to travel, so the more you can bench?

 

[b fold the truth]

I've always thought that a wide grip was used when going for max lifts. Do you powerlifters reccommend using a narrow or medium grip instead? Right now I use a medium grip (middle finger on power ring), but I figured the wider the grip, the less the bar has to travel, so the more you can bench?

A shorter distance traveled is good as long as you are just as mechanically sound in that position. You could expand your chest and your stomach and take the bar down lower too...shorter ROM.

Most powerlifters will go wide in a contest...when they have on a bench press shirt and are going for broke. Lots of them suffer pec tears too...

B True

 

[Hannibal]

I've always thought that a wide grip was used when going for max lifts. Do you powerlifters reccommend using a narrow or medium grip instead? Right now I use a medium grip (middle finger on power ring), but I figured the wider the grip, the less the bar has to travel, so the more you can bench?

In competition powerlifters tend to use the widest grip possible (index on the rings). However, in training, most all of the work is done with pinkies inside the rings to work the triceps more.

 

[coolcolj]

I'm 5'9" and I use a wide grip where my pinky is on the power ring. I like this becuase my forewarms are vertical at the bottom position. Less tricep involvement mainly. In the past I have benched much closer - about 3 inches from the inner markings

 

[mekannik]

spatts
The point of the bands is that it will speed recovery WITHOUT eccentric motion, thus building strength and size without the risk of reripping the muscle fibers (eccentric phase) that interferes with the healing necessary for hypertrophy.

Again - point taken and understood. But for those of us who don't have bands (yet) and the experience of having used them (again - yet) - would, in your opinion, a 3x8 on an alternate bench day done for speed aid in active recovery?

I was considering doing 3x8 @ 60% of 1RM followed up with some swiss ball d.b. presses.


BTW - I did 325 x 1 x 4 last nite - my shoulder felt great and the weight flew off my chest.


Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[spatts]

Sure you can use weight as recovery, but I don't call 60% recovery weight. MAYBE 40%.

 

[TauRine]

I don't have any bands either. Instead, I do 8x3 with 55% of my 1RM for speed bench. Think I start to lose too much speed after 3 or 4 reps so I increase the sets.

Spatts/anyone: is this a good idea or should I be aiming for higher reps with less sets on a speed day? And how much rest between sets? At the moment I only give myself about 30seconds.

TauRine.

 

[spatts]

Why are you associating a speed workout with recovery?

 

[mekannik]

Quite possibly I used the wrong terms in my original question.

When I think of the speed work (using a lighter weight @ higher volume) - my thought process was this would compliment the more neural driven workout alternated with it.

I'm looking for a workout to aid in my progress on the neural day while at the same time helping with recovery. Of course - having read some David Tate articles - I have improved my technique in just a few workouts so my shoulder does not feel as vulnerable/sore the next day.

 

[TauRine]

I'm a bit confused

Are we talking about a speed day for bench or active recovery?

If anyone could give me some feedback from my last post (speed bench related questions) I'd really appreciate it.

TauRine.