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Are injectables liver toxic ?
- Thread starter gtrack
- Start date
bb270
New member
dude, do some research. Suspension is some HARSH shit on your liver. Just because you are injecting, and not ingesting the pills, your liver still has the same job. To clean out the toxins in your blood. I don't care if you're shooting Primobolan (barely toxic) or popping Halo tabs (like drinking gasoline), your liver enzymes increase and your liver starts working overtime. Read some research bro.
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
bb270 said:
Thats a bit hars bro for a dude asking a question....
Can you post soem proof to show suspension is more toxic than any other type of testosterone...also please note that everything you eat is metabolized thru liver....everything is toxic to a degree.. but the diference between substances like deca , eq or testosterone are like night and day vs. Anadrols or halostein or dbol, etc.
Bumping this up for anyone who can post some details on this subject
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Can some experienced bro in the chemical field or doctor please ppost on this subject.
If you could please post an index of stress on liver by using Compounds such as Deca < Test etc. vs. Anadrols , HAlostein, Dbol etc.
Im thinking the scale would look close to 100 for Halostein and 4 or 6 for test....
Bumping thi sup for someone with some True knowlege on the subject
If you could please post an index of stress on liver by using Compounds such as Deca < Test etc. vs. Anadrols , HAlostein, Dbol etc.
Im thinking the scale would look close to 100 for Halostein and 4 or 6 for test....
Bumping thi sup for someone with some True knowlege on the subject
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
gtrack said:
Yes of course dude, they ALL stress the liver, its AAS
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Doesn't matter what it is, oral or inj. , they all effect the liver in some way...and it's not good. Take Liver Detox always
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Im tired of seing people giving the wrong advice around here...if you are unsure say " in my oppinion or i think" or "im not sure", First of all the board is here to help other people and not bitch at them for asking questions..You were a newbie too.....2nd if your going to give advice make sure its the correct advice!!
mrplunkey
New member
I thought the injectables that release through esters (oil-based) were "hard" on the liver, but only to the extent that AAS can mess-up your lipid profiles and stress your system overall -- hence they aren't "hepatoxic".
17aa compounds, hence they are explicity designed to circumvent breakdown by the liver, are hepatoxic. That means that not only do they stress your liver via the traditional AAS route -- they also can do actual damage to the liver. It's the 17aa aspect of these steriods that also makes them viable as oral drugs as opposed to injection-only.
The delineation of injectable versus oral as a way to identify 17aa compounds is sort-of accurate, but there are clear exceptions such as Winstrol which is 17aa (hepatoxic) and does come in an injectable form. Interestingly enough, since winny is 17aa, you could load up the syringe and just squirt it into your mouth too and not really lose that much efficacy.
I take 2 tyler's liver detox on any cycle to help my liver and when 17aa's are involved, up the dose to 4 per day (2 am, 2 pm).
17aa compounds, hence they are explicity designed to circumvent breakdown by the liver, are hepatoxic. That means that not only do they stress your liver via the traditional AAS route -- they also can do actual damage to the liver. It's the 17aa aspect of these steriods that also makes them viable as oral drugs as opposed to injection-only.
The delineation of injectable versus oral as a way to identify 17aa compounds is sort-of accurate, but there are clear exceptions such as Winstrol which is 17aa (hepatoxic) and does come in an injectable form. Interestingly enough, since winny is 17aa, you could load up the syringe and just squirt it into your mouth too and not really lose that much efficacy.
I take 2 tyler's liver detox on any cycle to help my liver and when 17aa's are involved, up the dose to 4 per day (2 am, 2 pm).
Thanks for the answers guys.
Oak,how high are your liver values after an oral vs after an injectable only cycle ? Have you ever tested them during cycles ?
I'm looking for such data.
PS Posting rarely and asking basic-looking questions does not prove someone ignorant.
10 years of use@50-70grams/year-310 pounds@6'2",610 raw bench FYI.
We all are here to learn more than we know.
Oak,how high are your liver values after an oral vs after an injectable only cycle ? Have you ever tested them during cycles ?
I'm looking for such data.
PS Posting rarely and asking basic-looking questions does not prove someone ignorant.
10 years of use@50-70grams/year-310 pounds@6'2",610 raw bench FYI.
We all are here to learn more than we know.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
LVTitan said:gone zag uh sucks beyatch.
how you been tiger?
How's UNLV's record? Ha!
Holla back
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
TheOak01 said:
People, people, people...injectables run throught the liver as well...why is this so hard to comprehend? It is true that orals give the LIV more stress because you're taking them orally! They get broken down in your liver first! Inj. eventually get into the blood stream and go through..............the LIVER
Injectable steroids, except winny which is an oral steroid that is injected, are not liver toxic. Suspension as liver toxic as Halo? This board slides into an abyss of stupidity sometimes. Don't post stupid stuff the guys at the gym told you. Liver enzymes are not increased from using a steroid that the liver doesn't break down. How could they be? People are looking for some peripheral affect that injectables have on the liver and that ridiculous. The air you breathe has a peripheral affect on your liver. Stop splitting hairs. Esterfied steroids, for all practical purposes, are not liver toxic.
No, not in any direct way that has been linked by research or noted in steroid research. When they talk about AS being liver toxic they are very careful to explain that it's only 17aa's that are liver toxic. Go to the Bjaarki Library at Anabolic Fitness and read the shandi AS review. Liver toxicity is covered there.
tical said:
Dude, using gear while taking accutane is fucking STUPID. First of all, if you're taking it because you are naturally prone to acne, steroids will render it less effective. So you might have to take another course of accutane down the road. And secondly...yes, it will interfere with the bloodtest, accutane itself fucks your cholesterol, and any injectable will lower HDL (and increase LDL in many cases) even more than accutane alone which will make things worse. Accutane alone at 40mg per day decreased my HDL by about 30 points, and increased my LDL by more than that. My triglicerides went from 60 to 110 on accutane alone. I don't imagine taking supraphysiological doses of androgens would help those numbers very much. If you get a bad bloodtest, you won't be able to talk your doc into letting you take accutane. He will pull you off for AT LEAST 8 weeks if he's nice, most of them will not prescribe it to you again. Why risk that?
I have seen 2 threads in the past few weeks of dudes that were forced off of accutane because of bad bloodtest results - from taking gear.
The only thing you should even consider while taking accutane is perhaps a low dose of test. 250mg a week perhaps. More than that will have too big of an effect on HDL and cholesterol, and I have bloodtests to prove that. (I'm taking accutane right now)
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tical
Banned
poantrex said:
I hear you, I'm actually on accutane thanks to what some test prop did to me last year, the backne never really subsided so I hopped on it. It's working great. 2 months in so far but my treatment is scheduled for 6 months thats why I was wondering (getting the itch to jump back on).
I'll just ride it out, no point in risking this script... you're right.
I doubt I'll be playing with any high(er) androgenics anymore.
I used Accutane twice while on cycle. Most people I know do. If you stay around 40mg/day you'll be fine. It's good you've started it first. You want to be on it a couple months prior to the cycle if at all possible.
The affects on your cholesterol levels, like with steroids, is overblown. The temporary flucuations in CHO levels caused by Accutane or Cycling 8 weeks are of no consequence. There has never been any link to CAD from having short episodes of poor lipid profiles.
The affects on your cholesterol levels, like with steroids, is overblown. The temporary flucuations in CHO levels caused by Accutane or Cycling 8 weeks are of no consequence. There has never been any link to CAD from having short episodes of poor lipid profiles.
If they stayed that way for years I might agree with him.
The problem is that doctors, if you don't tell them you cycle, freak when they see the lipid profile of someone on cycle. Because they think that the profile represents your typical lipid profile.
If those profiles were that dangerous in the short term they'd have you on meds in a heartbeat. They just aren't.
The problem is that doctors, if you don't tell them you cycle, freak when they see the lipid profile of someone on cycle. Because they think that the profile represents your typical lipid profile.
If those profiles were that dangerous in the short term they'd have you on meds in a heartbeat. They just aren't.
NYBodyguard
New member
so can I drink winny?Ulter said:
Bigdogmikey
New member
Anything thats in your blood gets metabolized/filtered by the liver. Test starts to get toxic after 1000mgs enanth/cyp/sust, suspension at any dose. Tren is more kidney toxic
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Ulter said:
I've taken it while on and it was the best decision I made. Poantrex is again speaking out of his
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Bigdogmikey said:
After 1000 mgs...Did you take this info out from your ass or are you just shooting it up...i call BS.
If i am wrong please post a good study and preferably studies to prove me wrong,
Bigdogmikey
New member
PolfaJelfa said:
Call B.s. Bro how many cycles have you done, how many competitions have you entered...I'll trade pics with you. Test turns somewhat liver toxic after 1 Gram( if you dont understand its 1000mg) aka megadoses...The more thats in your blood the more that goes through your liver, your liver is a filter, more means working harder.
http://www.druginfonet.com/index.php?pageID=faq/new/DRUG_FAQ/Testosterone.htm
http://www.aegis.com/factshts/network/simple/steroids.html
http://www.healthdigest.org/drugs/testosteroneaqueoussuspension.html
http://www.medibolics.com/qa2.htm
Also you may want to try this book.........Welder, AA, et al. Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary hepatic cell cultures. J Pharmacol Toxicol Meth (1995) 33(4):187-195.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
Bigdogmikey said:
I agree....I've put >1g in my body so I know....
Bigdogmikey
New member
After 1000mg My liver values Alk Phosphate went up to 140 (normal range is 120-125) 50mg of D-bols for 6 weeks will bring it up to 165....Since Im in the hospital these tests can be done whenever I want....Blood tests are very important while your on Juice. All these pro's go regulary for them
Ulter said:
Ulter, I don't think you're hearing me here. I have taken accutane several times, presribed by a derm and had my cholesterol monitored monthly by the derm. The effect accutane has on lipids is not overblown - my cholesterol levels are *always* excellent yet accutane always trashes it. Several months into my current accutane course at 40mg per day, my HDL dropped 30 points as mentioned above.
Now, I know none of this is permanant - but here is my point Ulter. WHY risk not being able to take accutane? IF tical gets a bad bloodtest, his derm will pull him off. THAT will fuck him over. He may be able to run those compounds withotu any problems, but there is a chance that it will mess his lipids up too much. I've seen it happen, man. I'm not even talking about health consequences, most people taking accutane usually want to keep taking it for the full course.
Oh - and to clarify - I don't think accutane with steroids is bad unless they are naturally prone to bad acne. I was under the impression that Tical was naturally prone to acne (without gear). Now, taking accutane while using gear in that scenario would be kinda stupid. If one is naturally prone to acne, they will want to take accutane without using steroids to prevent relapse. But someone not prone to acne taking accutane as insurance...No biggie there.
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The Accuatane effect is overblown simply because the results of a lipid profile while on it is useless. Sure it mess up the test. Sure the readings are of someone who's worked at McDonalds their whole life. But in the long range prediction of CAD, which is the purpose of the test, this one episode is insignificant.
The doctor will not, at least should not, pull you off Accutane because of a lipid profile. If your liver tests are poor over a 2 month period they may pull you off but not for lipid panel results. No matter how ridiculous the lipid profile looks, like mine has at times, it is not permanent. You come off, keep a clean diet, maybe add policosanol, and you're Lance Armstrong within months.
No one I know uses Accutane who doesn't have cystic acne. I had to wash my sheets every night because they were bloodied by the acne on my back when I slept. THAT's when I turned to Accutane.
The doctor will not, at least should not, pull you off Accutane because of a lipid profile. If your liver tests are poor over a 2 month period they may pull you off but not for lipid panel results. No matter how ridiculous the lipid profile looks, like mine has at times, it is not permanent. You come off, keep a clean diet, maybe add policosanol, and you're Lance Armstrong within months.
No one I know uses Accutane who doesn't have cystic acne. I had to wash my sheets every night because they were bloodied by the acne on my back when I slept. THAT's when I turned to Accutane.
Ulter said:
Thats so gross. I've been on Accutane almost 4 months and just started up a cycle. Ulter, I'm gonna PM you and talk to you about this acctuane + gear thing if you don't mind. Ulter gives good advice as usual to the guy son the board. Don't the docs focus on your liver values for the most part? Or am I mistaken?
Chris
NYBodyguard
New member
lolUlter said:
khemix said:
Just your liver? What happened to your kidneys? Wasn't that the talk around the gym first? I can't elaborate on where rumors start or how. People believe the goofiest stuff about various AS. I would write a book if I could figure out who the guy is that thinks this stuff up, comes down from the mountain, and spreads the word throughout the gyms of the world.
No it's not hard on your liver. Or your kidneys.
Ulter said:
Doctors will definitely pull folks off of accutane due to poor lipid profiles. They won't pull someone off just because they're out of "normal range" - there is more flexibility there because everyone knows that accutane fucks lipids up. But if gets too high, very high..like over 300.. they will pull someone off. Several doctors have told me this. Rosche gives them guidelines of when to pull someone off because of poor lipids, and they were given a revision recently actually. I'll ask my doc what they are the next time I see him
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Ulter said:
Maybe you haven't seen the information given to american doctors by rosche, but it tells them to monitor more than just liver enzymes. I don't know where you're getting this, because I know its incorrect. I've seen the information that doctors here in the USA are given...a doc showed it to me about 2 years ago. Maybe things are different in the UK (is that where you're at??)
khemix said:
Ulter is going to tell you that you're fine. I will tell you that you can PM the member AMGETR, who was PULLED OFF of accutane forever. He was using tren and omnadren while using Accutane, and his bloodtest result was bad. Small, reasonable doses too. He cannot take it (accutane) now. He was taking a shitload of liver and cholesterol supps, as well.
Why do you guys want to risk that shit. If you're naturally prone to acne, you should do the 15-20 week course and THEN juice to your hearts content. Especially facial acne. I cannot imagine having to deal with nodular facial acne day in and day out..I would never use AAS if there was a chance I could be pulled off accutane. If there is absolutely no way that you want to come off of accutane early, I suggest you use compounds that in no way would interfere with the bloodtests - like very low doses of test (250mg)
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Big dog mike..those links are completely of the subject...like i said..please show me a stufy that says....after 1000mgs test becomes magically toxic......
I will b ehappy to post some study for you to show you that protein when taken over 70g+ in one sitting will be toxic for your liver ( to apoints) EVERYTHING YOU PUT INTO YOUR MOOUTH WILL PUT some stress on your livver bro!
I will b ehappy to post some study for you to show you that protein when taken over 70g+ in one sitting will be toxic for your liver ( to apoints) EVERYTHING YOU PUT INTO YOUR MOOUTH WILL PUT some stress on your livver bro!
On your first point... Roche gives them guidelines on Lipids, liver function, psyche, hearing, inflammed bowel disease, pregnancy, bone mineral density, visual impairment and more. What the majority of the doctors using it test for closely, is liver stress. So say all those who have posted about it. And myself but I won't even count me.
I am in the US. Here read all about it. Knock yourself out. http://www.rocheusa.com/products/accutane/pi.pdf
On your second point... I don't know what AMGETR's case is and he's not me or anyone else.
There was a teenager here in Florida who flew his single engine plane into a building and killed himself. His mother is suing Roche. Court documents claim that the psyche affects of his accutane course led to the suicide. Does that mean if she's right that people who have access to planes on this board shouldn't use Accutane?
You can't take one case and apply it to the whole AS using community.
I am in the US. Here read all about it. Knock yourself out. http://www.rocheusa.com/products/accutane/pi.pdf
On your second point... I don't know what AMGETR's case is and he's not me or anyone else.
There was a teenager here in Florida who flew his single engine plane into a building and killed himself. His mother is suing Roche. Court documents claim that the psyche affects of his accutane course led to the suicide. Does that mean if she's right that people who have access to planes on this board shouldn't use Accutane?
You can't take one case and apply it to the whole AS using community.
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
WORD
Ulter said:
I'm not here to say what he was taking can be attributed to accutane or not. But AAS taken in conjunction with accutane can definitely lead to a chance of a bad bloodtest, in which most derms will pull you off. My entire point is that if he values the use of accutane, to not risk it by using too much AAS. And if he's naturally prone to acne (especially facial acne) taking AAS would be stupid. that would increase the chance of remission.
I don't know where you're getting that derms only look at liver function. That is false. Gimme one roche document that states, they should look primarily at liver function. The truth is, they look at a lot more than that and I've heard numerous of people being pulled off because of hyperlipidemia and hypertrigliceridemia.
I have been here for 5 years and I don't know a single person that was pulled off accutane because of their lipids. Meanwhile I know hundreds, and according to source friends there are thousands, of men who buy accutane to use with their cycles. They use it. They are fine. They go on their way. If a doctor took away my accutane I would buy it the same way I bought my cycle.
If you don't want to use it, don't. I don't care and this not going to get resolved posting this stuff back and forth. In five years I don't know anyone who has had a problem with it, you want to alert everyone that they shouldn't do it. Knock yourself out.
I think my point about Roche was made and that is it really doesn't matter what their instructions are. Doctors follow what the salesmen tell them to do. I GAVE YOU Roche's instructions and most of the things on the instructions aren't being done by doctors are they? Did you doctor check your vision? Did he check your hearing? Did he ask for your psyche history? (Well maybe he did after the recent lawsuits)
Sure a doctor might pull you off for whatever reason. It's not common though or I would know at least ONE person who had it happen. I must have sent 300 people to Dr Scruggs for steroids and it never happened to anyone he put on Accutane. And BTW he put them on DURING their cycles. Just like he did me.
If you don't want to use it, don't. I don't care and this not going to get resolved posting this stuff back and forth. In five years I don't know anyone who has had a problem with it, you want to alert everyone that they shouldn't do it. Knock yourself out.
I think my point about Roche was made and that is it really doesn't matter what their instructions are. Doctors follow what the salesmen tell them to do. I GAVE YOU Roche's instructions and most of the things on the instructions aren't being done by doctors are they? Did you doctor check your vision? Did he check your hearing? Did he ask for your psyche history? (Well maybe he did after the recent lawsuits)
Sure a doctor might pull you off for whatever reason. It's not common though or I would know at least ONE person who had it happen. I must have sent 300 people to Dr Scruggs for steroids and it never happened to anyone he put on Accutane. And BTW he put them on DURING their cycles. Just like he did me.
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Hey Ulter, how did that Acutane work for you, temporary subsiding, or did it "kill the acne" after you discontinued the med.?
Themachine01
New member
Ulter said:
Is it best to go see a dermo to get it?
Accutane eliminated acne for good. No matter how much tren I use it simply doesn't erupt anymore.
You can get it at a dermo or from sources. I don't see it on any lists right now but they are out there. And a lot of the liquid guys have it.
You can get it at a dermo or from sources. I don't see it on any lists right now but they are out there. And a lot of the liquid guys have it.
BIGCANNONS
New member
I HEAR YA BRO I think some of these guys might jump the gun when it comes to calling someone out, and seems to me that some of those same people tend to give questionable advice, i've more than my share of research yet i still dont know anywhere close to everything but feel free to pm me and ill try my best to help if not ill try to find help PEACE.gtrack said:
Bigdogmikey
New member
PolfaJelfa said:
Anything that is filtered by your liver raises the values, The more injections, the more juice, the harder your liver works making it toxic, 70grams of carbs in one sitting is bad for your kidneys you must be mistaken. Injectables become liver toxic at higher doses, its common sense.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
gtrack said:
You should take Tyler's liv protectant with ALL aas oral or inj.
Bigdogmikey
New member
dosteov said:
TEST pure and simple
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
DIVISION said:Whenever I take Tyler's my stomach feels queasy the whole day.....like I'm on the verge of throwing up...
other than that, it's not a bad product.
DIV
Serious? Man i love that stuff. I took winny for A LONG time, and took tyler's ...enzymes were not even elevated slightly
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
so true
Bigdogmikey
New member
Action of Testosterones,Treatment with testosterone and its congeners is complicated by the fact that the exogenous supply of the hormone may depress secretion of the natural hormone through inhibitory effects on the pituitary. Too large a dose may cause permanent damage. Treatment is usually associated with a feeling of well-being. Following PO use, 44% of testosterone is cleared by the liver in the first pass. Thus, the parenteral forms are used. t1/2, testosterone cypionate after IM: 8 days. Ninety percent is excreted through the urine as metabolites and 6% is excreted through the feces. Testosterone and testosterone propionate are considered short-acting; testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate are long-acting.
Following use of Testoderm on the scrotal skin: Maximum serum levels: 2-4 hr with return to baseline in about 2 hr after system is removed. Serum levels reach a plateau in 3-4 weeks. Will not produce sufficient serum levels if applied to nongenital skin. Following use of Androderm to nonscrotal skin, there is continual absorption over 24 hr. Application of two systems at 10:00 p.m. results in serum testosterone levels similar to normal circadian variation with maximum levels occurring in the early morning hours and minimum levels in the evening...
SIDE EFFECTS: Hepatic: Liver toxicity is the most serious side effect. Jaundice, cholestasis, alterations in BSP retention, AST, and ALT. Rarely, hepatic necrosis, hepatocellular neoplasms peliosis hepatis, acute intermittent porphyria in clients with this disease. GI: N&V, diarrhea, anorexia, symptoms of peptic ulcer. CNS: Headache, anxiety, increased or decreased libido, insomnia, excitation, paresthesias, sleep apnea syndrome, CNS hemorrhage chills, choreiform movements, habituation, confusion (toxic doses). GU: Testicular atrophy with inhibition of testicular function (e.g., oligospermia), impotence, epididymitis, irritable bladder, prepubertal phallic enlargement, gynecomastia. Electrolyte: Retention of sodium, chloride, calcium, potassium, phosphates. Edema. Miscellaneous: Acne, flushing, suppression of clotting factors (II, V, VII, X), polycythemia, leukopenia, rashes, dermatitis, anaphylaxis (rare) muscle cramps, hypercholesterolemia, male-pattern baldness, acne, seborrhea, hirsutism. Hypercalcemia, especially in immobilized clients or those with metastatic breast carcinoma. Virilization in women.
In females, menstrual irregularities (including amenorrhea), virilization, clitoral enlargement, hirsutism, increased libido, baldness (male pattern), virilization of external genitalia of female fetus.
In males, decreased ejaculatory volume, oligospermia (high doses), gynecomastia, increased frequency and duration of penile erections.
In children, disturbances of growth, premature closure of epiphyses, precocious sexual development.
Inflammation and pain at site of IM or SC injection.
NOTE: Side effects of the cypionate and enanthate products are not readily reversible due to the long duration of action of these dosage forms.
The patch may cause itching, irritation, erythema, or discomfort of the scrotum (Testoderm) or on skin areas where applied (Androderm). Potentially, small amounts of testosterone may be transferred to a sex partner.
POLJAFFA THIS IS FROM HEALTHDIGEST.ORG
Following use of Testoderm on the scrotal skin: Maximum serum levels: 2-4 hr with return to baseline in about 2 hr after system is removed. Serum levels reach a plateau in 3-4 weeks. Will not produce sufficient serum levels if applied to nongenital skin. Following use of Androderm to nonscrotal skin, there is continual absorption over 24 hr. Application of two systems at 10:00 p.m. results in serum testosterone levels similar to normal circadian variation with maximum levels occurring in the early morning hours and minimum levels in the evening...
SIDE EFFECTS: Hepatic: Liver toxicity is the most serious side effect. Jaundice, cholestasis, alterations in BSP retention, AST, and ALT. Rarely, hepatic necrosis, hepatocellular neoplasms peliosis hepatis, acute intermittent porphyria in clients with this disease. GI: N&V, diarrhea, anorexia, symptoms of peptic ulcer. CNS: Headache, anxiety, increased or decreased libido, insomnia, excitation, paresthesias, sleep apnea syndrome, CNS hemorrhage chills, choreiform movements, habituation, confusion (toxic doses). GU: Testicular atrophy with inhibition of testicular function (e.g., oligospermia), impotence, epididymitis, irritable bladder, prepubertal phallic enlargement, gynecomastia. Electrolyte: Retention of sodium, chloride, calcium, potassium, phosphates. Edema. Miscellaneous: Acne, flushing, suppression of clotting factors (II, V, VII, X), polycythemia, leukopenia, rashes, dermatitis, anaphylaxis (rare) muscle cramps, hypercholesterolemia, male-pattern baldness, acne, seborrhea, hirsutism. Hypercalcemia, especially in immobilized clients or those with metastatic breast carcinoma. Virilization in women.
In females, menstrual irregularities (including amenorrhea), virilization, clitoral enlargement, hirsutism, increased libido, baldness (male pattern), virilization of external genitalia of female fetus.
In males, decreased ejaculatory volume, oligospermia (high doses), gynecomastia, increased frequency and duration of penile erections.
In children, disturbances of growth, premature closure of epiphyses, precocious sexual development.
Inflammation and pain at site of IM or SC injection.
NOTE: Side effects of the cypionate and enanthate products are not readily reversible due to the long duration of action of these dosage forms.
The patch may cause itching, irritation, erythema, or discomfort of the scrotum (Testoderm) or on skin areas where applied (Androderm). Potentially, small amounts of testosterone may be transferred to a sex partner.
POLJAFFA THIS IS FROM HEALTHDIGEST.ORG
Bigdogmikey
New member
PolfaJelfa said:
maybe this will help
Bigdogmikey
New member
PolfaJelfa said:
OR YOUR OTHER COMMENT
As i said bro, everything is liver toxic, including the steak and protein we consume. However one must look at the specific toxicity..not general.....what this means is that the toxicity produced by test ( even higher doses) is minimall compared to everyday medications, food etc and items we consume. I do agree with you that the higher toe dose of anything the more toxic it is. However...the toxicity level is still low enough as to be deemed "irelevant" in most "normal doses"
WHICH IS IT CAN YOU PICK AN ANSWER
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PolfaJelfa
Guest
Im not going to argue with you bro, BTW the "After 1000 mgs"...was not saying that it was after 1000 mgs it was me being sarcastic (which is hard to decifer over internet)
Point is I along with the vast majority of people think and have proven even on themselves that test is not "liver toxic" sure it puts stress on liver as it is toxic to some degree....( im repeating myself from other posts)....anyhow...you have your oppinion...i have mine....and the vast majority of vets have theirs. Most people including doctors also will confirm that testosterone is not toxic ( to levels where it will hurt your liver even at those doses) For example think about this..anadrol 50 is VERY VERY VERY bad for liver even at 1 tab a day....aids patients take over 5-10 aday for years sometimes over 5-20 yrs.....they ussualy do not have complications with the liver but rather die of aids first. Now think about it testosterone produces a level of toxicity that does not even fit on the scale compared to anadrol. Do your math?
Point is I along with the vast majority of people think and have proven even on themselves that test is not "liver toxic" sure it puts stress on liver as it is toxic to some degree....( im repeating myself from other posts)....anyhow...you have your oppinion...i have mine....and the vast majority of vets have theirs. Most people including doctors also will confirm that testosterone is not toxic ( to levels where it will hurt your liver even at those doses) For example think about this..anadrol 50 is VERY VERY VERY bad for liver even at 1 tab a day....aids patients take over 5-10 aday for years sometimes over 5-20 yrs.....they ussualy do not have complications with the liver but rather die of aids first. Now think about it testosterone produces a level of toxicity that does not even fit on the scale compared to anadrol. Do your math?
bump...interesting discussion.
P
PolfaJelfa
Guest
Don King..arnold hasnt jumped ship bro, its politics, i would say the same thing.
Bigdogmikey
New member
bro im not aruging with you at alll, i just wanna hear your point of veiw kid, no hard feelings, mike
I remember reading the data and also my dr. explaining to me that even 2 shots of 250mg. of test a month has shown to increase liver cancer 3 fold. The odds of getting liver cancer is still low even with the 3 fold increase. Now, 1000mgs a week? or even 250 long term? I wonder what the odds are then? No studies done yet.
TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT
New member
DIVISION said:I agree.
A sellout is a sellout, regardless of the reason or justification.
Arnold turned his back.....
DIV
Arnold has a new life now being Gov.
How can you have a Gov. saying yes legalize steroids
It'd be nice, but it's not gone happen
If Arnold was a sellout he'd cancel the Arnold Classic and end his involvement with the magazines such as FLEX
After all, "they were legal when he was using."
gjohnson5
New member
detroitbodybuildertigers said:Arnold has a new life now being Gov.
How can you have a Gov. saying yes legalize steroids
It'd be nice, but it's not gone happen
If Arnold was a sellout he'd cancel the Arnold Classic and end his involvement with the magazines such as FLEX
After all, "they were legal when he was using."
All the Arnold fans don't wanna admit that thier hero is a sell out. He doesn't have to say anything. The reason why he's against steroids now , despite the fact that steroids are the only reason he was a movie star and now a governor, is because your hero is now a tool for George Bush... He cannot run for President yet as the constitution hasn't been amended.
