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The major factor is are you tested or not, your age, sport(assuming triathlete), have you done a cycle before, propensity to gain weight. There are alot of factors.
any endurance athletes out there?
- Thread starter triguy
- Start date
pins aren't OTC?
pins aren't otc? They are here in NC, i think. I can buy them at least. They have asked me what I need them for and I've always said "school". and they take my DL# down.
I wish we could get a copy of everyone who tested pos. for EPO from the new EPO test.
LA buffering: try the phytic acid too. It's relatively cheap and you get 40 tabs. It has yet to upset my stomach.
Saw a cool thing on another board today. You can take Yohimbee (the topical kind) and mix it with Fina and its carrying agent will bring it past the skin. It might be DMSO, but everyone said it had a minty smell, so it could be menthol/alchohol. Speaking of DMSO, I tore something in my chest throwing a medicine ball and I put some aspercreme on there the otd and it took about 5 min. and it felt pretty good. I'd give a shot. Also, if you have access to a compounding Rx, you can get some DMSO and mix it with all sorts of stuff. Ketoprofen, por ejemplo, is some damn good stuff when admin'd topically. It has been proven to penetrate into the synovial fluid if applied topically. That would make a cool thing to schlopp on your legs when it's cold out or for a rub-down if you mix it with other cool stuff.
Be cool,
ROlf
pins aren't otc? They are here in NC, i think. I can buy them at least. They have asked me what I need them for and I've always said "school". and they take my DL# down.
I wish we could get a copy of everyone who tested pos. for EPO from the new EPO test.
LA buffering: try the phytic acid too. It's relatively cheap and you get 40 tabs. It has yet to upset my stomach.
Saw a cool thing on another board today. You can take Yohimbee (the topical kind) and mix it with Fina and its carrying agent will bring it past the skin. It might be DMSO, but everyone said it had a minty smell, so it could be menthol/alchohol. Speaking of DMSO, I tore something in my chest throwing a medicine ball and I put some aspercreme on there the otd and it took about 5 min. and it felt pretty good. I'd give a shot. Also, if you have access to a compounding Rx, you can get some DMSO and mix it with all sorts of stuff. Ketoprofen, por ejemplo, is some damn good stuff when admin'd topically. It has been proven to penetrate into the synovial fluid if applied topically. That would make a cool thing to schlopp on your legs when it's cold out or for a rub-down if you mix it with other cool stuff.
Be cool,
ROlf
of some interest, from cyclingnews.com
Failure of cycling press
The final scandal of the Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City involving cross country skiers and the use of the drug darbepoetin illuminates the facade of reporting currently practiced in the cycling world. Headlines in VeloNews, Cyclingnews, and other cycling periodicals blare that the trial of Dr. Michele Ferrari is an attempt for "cycling to come clean" - what a joke. The fact is that the "big drug" that is being discussed at the trial and in the cycling press, EPO, only confirms that the cycling federations, and more importantly, the cycling press is not interested in really exposing the doping that is going on in the peloton.
The use of EPO in cycling is at least a decade and a half old - have no other drugs with performance enhancing attributes been developed by pharmaceutical companies? The cycling press would have us believe so, yet, we have to hear about dabepoetin from NBC or CNN, the most generic of news sources, instead of the specialist cycling reporters and editors that our subscription and advertising dollars are paying for.
It's easy to sympathize with the cycling press, however, because doping is bad for the industry that they are dependent upon so they, like the team sponsors, turn a blind eye to doping until someone gets caught. This strategy unfortunately will result in a cycling fan base that will turn away from racing and towards the mellower, recreational aspects of cycling. At a time when cycling is poised to take on a higher level of visibility in areas outside of Europe, the upcoming reports of fraud and scandal could disastrously set cycling back another 20 years.
It is interesting to note that even when the cycling press reports about that old stablehorse, EPO, not too many questions are asked. The new EPO testing procedures were calmly accepted by the press as a "major step towards cleaning up the sport" with very little follow up. The questions that should have been asked are: how does the test detect EPO? [through detection of chemical tags inserted in the EPO] What if there were no chemical tags in the EPO?
Rumors have reached even the navel-gazing United States that there are chemical tag-free batches of EPO available from sources in Eastern Europe, thus nullifying the new EPO test. There have been rumors of other drugs like darbepoetin for years, but none of these drugs are mentioned or investigated by the press to any visible degree. Is the cycling press telling us that they have no friends in the peleton that they can talk to about these allegations? What about the recently retired riders who are pursuing careers outside of cycling? What about the American cyclists who are literally infiltrating the peleton in increasing numbers? Can we find no one to talk even anonymously about their new experiences and the new pressures that they must be under, to take the injections or get out of the race? Are idolized riders only "technically" telling the truth: "I don't dope" meaning "I don't take anything that's _currently_ on the banned list".
Until the cycling press starts asking these hard questions and getting some real answers, we can only be so enthusiastic about reading the race reports - there are too many questions in the back of everyone's mind.
Tom Lewis
Monday, February 25, 2002
Respond to this letter
Cyclingnews editor Jeff Jones replies
Cyclingnews has always reported on illegal drug use in the peloton. You may remember the Festina scandal in 1998? We had the most detailed and up to date reports on the web. Since then we have continued to report on new drugs and drug tests, and there is no pressure from advertisers not to, although some readers complain that it's interfering with the cycling coverage. I don't think you can describe us as "not interested".
I have always criticised the French EPO urine test, as it only has a 3 day window, whereas the effects of EPO lasts for weeks. The criticism started in 1999/2000 when the test was developed for use in the Olympics. I'll leave it up to you read through the articles via our archives http://www.cyclingnews.com/archives.html and search tool (google.com works quite well for that).
Explanations of how the test works are given on more than one occasion. The EPO test relies on the fact that there are slight differences between artificial and natural EPO, although there is no specific chemical tag inserted into artificial EPO to make it detectable. Other parameters in : the person's blood profile also change when the balance is upset, and blood tests are used by the UCI to confirm an EPO suspect.
EPO may not even the drug of choice any more, but a number of people tested positive for it last year. People still test positive for steroids too.
As for NESP, two examples last year (scroll down the page a bit):
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/oct01/oct10news.php http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/nov01/nov13news.php
There was also a debate about it in the cyclingnews letters page last year.
NESP may be a more powerful drug than EPO, but it is purely artificial and has a half life three times as long, so it is easier to detect.
Finally, yes there are plenty of rumours about the drugs going around in the peloton. To print whatever we hear would be rather irresponsible.
Failure of cycling press
The final scandal of the Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City involving cross country skiers and the use of the drug darbepoetin illuminates the facade of reporting currently practiced in the cycling world. Headlines in VeloNews, Cyclingnews, and other cycling periodicals blare that the trial of Dr. Michele Ferrari is an attempt for "cycling to come clean" - what a joke. The fact is that the "big drug" that is being discussed at the trial and in the cycling press, EPO, only confirms that the cycling federations, and more importantly, the cycling press is not interested in really exposing the doping that is going on in the peloton.
The use of EPO in cycling is at least a decade and a half old - have no other drugs with performance enhancing attributes been developed by pharmaceutical companies? The cycling press would have us believe so, yet, we have to hear about dabepoetin from NBC or CNN, the most generic of news sources, instead of the specialist cycling reporters and editors that our subscription and advertising dollars are paying for.
It's easy to sympathize with the cycling press, however, because doping is bad for the industry that they are dependent upon so they, like the team sponsors, turn a blind eye to doping until someone gets caught. This strategy unfortunately will result in a cycling fan base that will turn away from racing and towards the mellower, recreational aspects of cycling. At a time when cycling is poised to take on a higher level of visibility in areas outside of Europe, the upcoming reports of fraud and scandal could disastrously set cycling back another 20 years.
It is interesting to note that even when the cycling press reports about that old stablehorse, EPO, not too many questions are asked. The new EPO testing procedures were calmly accepted by the press as a "major step towards cleaning up the sport" with very little follow up. The questions that should have been asked are: how does the test detect EPO? [through detection of chemical tags inserted in the EPO] What if there were no chemical tags in the EPO?
Rumors have reached even the navel-gazing United States that there are chemical tag-free batches of EPO available from sources in Eastern Europe, thus nullifying the new EPO test. There have been rumors of other drugs like darbepoetin for years, but none of these drugs are mentioned or investigated by the press to any visible degree. Is the cycling press telling us that they have no friends in the peleton that they can talk to about these allegations? What about the recently retired riders who are pursuing careers outside of cycling? What about the American cyclists who are literally infiltrating the peleton in increasing numbers? Can we find no one to talk even anonymously about their new experiences and the new pressures that they must be under, to take the injections or get out of the race? Are idolized riders only "technically" telling the truth: "I don't dope" meaning "I don't take anything that's _currently_ on the banned list".
Until the cycling press starts asking these hard questions and getting some real answers, we can only be so enthusiastic about reading the race reports - there are too many questions in the back of everyone's mind.
Tom Lewis
Monday, February 25, 2002
Respond to this letter
Cyclingnews editor Jeff Jones replies
Cyclingnews has always reported on illegal drug use in the peloton. You may remember the Festina scandal in 1998? We had the most detailed and up to date reports on the web. Since then we have continued to report on new drugs and drug tests, and there is no pressure from advertisers not to, although some readers complain that it's interfering with the cycling coverage. I don't think you can describe us as "not interested".
I have always criticised the French EPO urine test, as it only has a 3 day window, whereas the effects of EPO lasts for weeks. The criticism started in 1999/2000 when the test was developed for use in the Olympics. I'll leave it up to you read through the articles via our archives http://www.cyclingnews.com/archives.html and search tool (google.com works quite well for that).
Explanations of how the test works are given on more than one occasion. The EPO test relies on the fact that there are slight differences between artificial and natural EPO, although there is no specific chemical tag inserted into artificial EPO to make it detectable. Other parameters in : the person's blood profile also change when the balance is upset, and blood tests are used by the UCI to confirm an EPO suspect.
EPO may not even the drug of choice any more, but a number of people tested positive for it last year. People still test positive for steroids too.
As for NESP, two examples last year (scroll down the page a bit):
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/oct01/oct10news.php http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/nov01/nov13news.php
There was also a debate about it in the cyclingnews letters page last year.
NESP may be a more powerful drug than EPO, but it is purely artificial and has a half life three times as long, so it is easier to detect.
Finally, yes there are plenty of rumours about the drugs going around in the peloton. To print whatever we hear would be rather irresponsible.
WHAT YOU GUYS THINK OF THIS??????
There could be a way to carry more oxygenated blood without any more rbc's or hemoglobin. Plasma also carries o2, and comes in a nice little package (lol). It carries no where near the amount of 02 hemog carries but will clearly aid gas exchange. The hematorit cant see this stuff. As i remember the amount of o2 carried in the blood went something like this. (1.34xhemog#)saturated hemoglobin+plasma levels 1.34 represents how much o2 the hemo can hold, while a h/h is needed to get the total hemoglobin within the body, the pulse oximeter gives you the saturated hemoglobin percentage. If I cycled this is how I would try to get an advantage over my opponents. Get an ABG done this is easy the whole process takes less than 5 mins. After recieving my hemoglobin levels I would compare mine to what the legal limits are and add some as desired. This would take some time and probably a considerable amount of ABG's to get used to proper dosages. After this I would bombard myself with plasma,and load up on topical bronchial dialators prerace. Topical beta2's are not absorbed systemically as easily as the oral drugs in its class. This would work in two ways. One allow you to get a larger dosage thus increasing bronchialdilation and secondly increase your chances of beating the drug test after your win! When you see RT's giving supplemental 02 out on the football feild they are in no way aiding the athlete's hemoglobin in carrying more 02. Athletes are much to efficient for that. Their pulseox saturation levels even when out of breathe are at 99%. Its the plasma thats being altered and they do say it helps.
topical bronchodilators?
There could be a way to carry more oxygenated blood without any more rbc's or hemoglobin. Plasma also carries o2, and comes in a nice little package (lol). It carries no where near the amount of 02 hemog carries but will clearly aid gas exchange. The hematorit cant see this stuff. As i remember the amount of o2 carried in the blood went something like this. (1.34xhemog#)saturated hemoglobin+plasma levels 1.34 represents how much o2 the hemo can hold, while a h/h is needed to get the total hemoglobin within the body, the pulse oximeter gives you the saturated hemoglobin percentage. If I cycled this is how I would try to get an advantage over my opponents. Get an ABG done this is easy the whole process takes less than 5 mins. After recieving my hemoglobin levels I would compare mine to what the legal limits are and add some as desired. This would take some time and probably a considerable amount of ABG's to get used to proper dosages. After this I would bombard myself with plasma,and load up on topical bronchial dialators prerace. Topical beta2's are not absorbed systemically as easily as the oral drugs in its class. This would work in two ways. One allow you to get a larger dosage thus increasing bronchialdilation and secondly increase your chances of beating the drug test after your win! When you see RT's giving supplemental 02 out on the football feild they are in no way aiding the athlete's hemoglobin in carrying more 02. Athletes are much to efficient for that. Their pulseox saturation levels even when out of breathe are at 99%. Its the plasma thats being altered and they do say it helps.
topical bronchodilators?
FHG -
I saw you had posted on another thread about supplemnting with ALA. How are you using this and what results have you seen. I was thinking of trying this after races with my recovery drink. Thought it might work a little like insulin. Am I wrong?
This thread has been dieing lately. Where is everyone???
I saw you had posted on another thread about supplemnting with ALA. How are you using this and what results have you seen. I was thinking of trying this after races with my recovery drink. Thought it might work a little like insulin. Am I wrong?
This thread has been dieing lately. Where is everyone???
albuterol
Hey fhg,
I scored some Albuterol. I was out-of-town visiting my momma and I hurt my chest throwing a med. ball @ the gym. Then i raced this past weekend and my chest felt like it was collapsing. I took a hit of Albuterol from a friend and it felt a good bit better. Then I went to the ER doc and he Rx'd me 17gm's of the stuff. How long will 17 g's last? Can I get away with only using it at race time?
Thanks,
Rolf
Don't let this thing die!
Hey fhg,
I scored some Albuterol. I was out-of-town visiting my momma and I hurt my chest throwing a med. ball @ the gym. Then i raced this past weekend and my chest felt like it was collapsing. I took a hit of Albuterol from a friend and it felt a good bit better. Then I went to the ER doc and he Rx'd me 17gm's of the stuff. How long will 17 g's last? Can I get away with only using it at race time?
Thanks,
Rolf
Don't let this thing die!
Yo! keep this baby goin!
OK, my dog is gaining way too much weight!
GH 4 i.u.'s 2 x a day
insulin 2 i.u.'s w/ 2nd meal after workout
dbol am 10mgs
1g arimidex
options:
a. cut back on GH
b. drop insulin
c. both
d. what you guys think
my greyhound wants to keepweight the same just use AAS to boost recovery & performance
OK, my dog is gaining way too much weight!
GH 4 i.u.'s 2 x a day
insulin 2 i.u.'s w/ 2nd meal after workout
dbol am 10mgs
1g arimidex
options:
a. cut back on GH
b. drop insulin
c. both
d. what you guys think
my greyhound wants to keepweight the same just use AAS to boost recovery & performance
