5/3/1 faq

[NBAfan#21]

Here is the link to the e-book. Its on $20 and a great read.

But to answer your question, the "Boring But Big" assistance work is the simplest. After you perform the sets and reps of the program, you simple follow it up with the same exercise for 5x10 @ about 55-60% 1RM.

B-

Ok thank you very much. But how exactly doing 5 sets of 10 reps is going to make you stronger? Isnt the reps range to work on strength between 1 and 5 reps? and 10+ being hypertrophy oriented?

 

[bblazer]

Ok thank you very much. But how exactly doing 5 sets of 10 reps is going to make you stronger? Isnt the reps range to work on strength between 1 and 5 reps? and 10+ being hypertrophy oriented?

Yes you are right about the rep range for strength. That doesn't necessarily apply to assistance exercises though. You are getting your "strength" phase through the initial sets. The additional work in this case is added volume.

B-

 

[future]

Yeah you really cant keep in that rep range for every exercise in your workout. You'll burn out.

 

[OneBreath]

great thread. The only thing i would add is that i've tried all kinds of mixing up the split. Combining press and bench, squat and dead. I did Monday Dead, Tue Press, Thur Squat, Friday Bench. In the end i realized that my ego was at work attempting to shorten the micro cycles to a week for faster progress.

I highly recommend the Mon/Wed/Fri/Mon microcycle. My OCD brain hates having different exercises on different days of the week each week, but my body loves it. I also use weighted crossfit metcons for "assistance" work so i need the max recovery schedule.

Great thread future. I liked the insight into adding some o lifts prior to the main lift.

 

[ExtraMile]

should the 5/3/1 be changed for beginners? or is it aimed at beginners? Iv got the 3day e-book by Jim Wendler and he does go into the 5/3/1 but not in depth.

I have been doing somethin pretty much like the 5/3/1 but with lots more volume, for example on bench day according to the 5/3/1 I would ramp up to a set of 5, 3 or 1 then do two assistance exercises which would probably be incline dumbell press and chins, 2-4 sets of each.

But what Im doing myself now is flat bench, ramp up to a triple, then a back off set of 10-12, then 4 sets of bent over rows, then 3 sets of incline DB, then 3 sets of facepulls, then 3 sets of floor press, then a set of pushdowns. Im having the best gains of my life, setting up to 16pr's each workout. So if this is just noob gains, then for beginners shouldnt the volume be increased to take advantage of this?

 

[bblazer]

should the 5/3/1 be changed for beginners? or is it aimed at beginners? Iv got the 3day e-book by Jim Wendler and he does go into the 5/3/1 but not in depth.

I have been doing somethin pretty much like the 5/3/1 but with lots more volume, for example on bench day according to the 5/3/1 I would ramp up to a set of 5, 3 or 1 then do two assistance exercises which would probably be incline dumbell press and chins, 2-4 sets of each.

But what Im doing myself now is flat bench, ramp up to a triple, then a back off set of 10-12, then 4 sets of bent over rows, then 3 sets of incline DB, then 3 sets of facepulls, then 3 sets of floor press, then a set of pushdowns. Im having the best gains of my life, setting up to 16pr's each workout. So if this is just noob gains, then for beginners shouldnt the volume be increased to take advantage of this?

I think Jim's philosophy is that the n00bh gains come no matter what the timeline. As with everything though, the quality of those gains increases with the time it takes to get there. As an example, if you get someone who loses 30 lbs in 1 month vs a person who loses that same weight over 3 months, the chances of the second person maintaining those losses increases over the first. Jim looks at weight training in a similar manner - it is a marathon, not a sprint. Take the time to develop high quality lean, dense muscle. The rest will come later.

BTW, he does have an e-book dedicated just to the 5/3/1 - I linked it earlier in the thread.

B-

 

[OneBreath]

should the 5/3/1 be changed for beginners? or is it aimed at beginners? Iv got the 3day e-book by Jim Wendler and he does go into the 5/3/1 but not in depth.

I have been doing somethin pretty much like the 5/3/1 but with lots more volume, for example on bench day according to the 5/3/1 I would ramp up to a set of 5, 3 or 1 then do two assistance exercises which would probably be incline dumbell press and chins, 2-4 sets of each.

But what Im doing myself now is flat bench, ramp up to a triple, then a back off set of 10-12, then 4 sets of bent over rows, then 3 sets of incline DB, then 3 sets of facepulls, then 3 sets of floor press, then a set of pushdowns. Im having the best gains of my life, setting up to 16pr's each workout. So if this is just noob gains, then for beginners shouldnt the volume be increased to take advantage of this?

I would think more in terms of cycle length. Beginners should take advantage of session to session overload (starting strength) and use that until they cannot progress. Then they can move to weekly periodization (5x5, texas method). Once progression here cannot be archived then a monthly periodization program can be used (5/3/1)

So don't think in terms of volume, but rather in how often your load increases. At your age you should be able to milk the shorter cycles before moving to monthly.

Short version, if you are getting PRs every workout then keep doing exactly what you are doing until that stops. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[cjangelo]

I would think more in terms of cycle length. Beginners should take advantage of session to session overload (starting strength) and use that until they cannot progress. Then they can move to weekly periodization (5x5, texas method). Once progression here cannot be archived then a monthly periodization program can be used (5/3/1)

There we go. Someone really gets it. I am impressed.

BBlazer:
One of the concerns I've heard about using 5/3/1 with beginners and even intermediates is
1. that you don't get a lot of practice with the big lifts, and
2. when you DO get that practice, you are doing rep maxes, which means your form is less than perfect, otherwise it wouldn't be a rep max.

I did 5/3/1 for a while and really liked it, but now that I'm coming off a long lay-off, I'm sticking to sets of 5 and slowly progressing up to my old working weights. I feel like my form is better, I get more practice with weights that are 70%-80% of my max, and I really prefer this rep range. I know Mark Rippetoe promotes this as well.

What steps do you take to ensure your young'ins are perfecting their form while getting stronger?

Congratulations on the meet. I am very jealous of those kids--wish I had that in high school! I'm sure you are doing a great job.

Have fun, Merry Christmas, take care,

 

[bblazer]

There we go. Someone really gets it. I am impressed.

BBlazer:
One of the concerns I've heard about using 5/3/1 with beginners and even intermediates is
1. that you don't get a lot of practice with the big lifts, and
2. when you DO get that practice, you are doing rep maxes, which means your form is less than perfect, otherwise it wouldn't be a rep max.

I did 5/3/1 for a while and really liked it, but now that I'm coming off a long lay-off, I'm sticking to sets of 5 and slowly progressing up to my old working weights. I feel like my form is better, I get more practice with weights that are 70%-80% of my max, and I really prefer this rep range. I know Mark Rippetoe promotes this as well.

What steps do you take to ensure your young'ins are perfecting their form while getting stronger?

Congratulations on the meet. I am very jealous of those kids--wish I had that in high school! I'm sure you are doing a great job.

Have fun, Merry Christmas, take care,

I work on their form during some very extensive warm ups. It takes them at least 20-30 min to get to their working sets. Then when they are there, the reps are done slow and deliberate. If they blow a rep, they have to do it again. Blow enough of them, the set it repeated. At the end of the cycle, when it is time to establish a new RM for the new cycle, unless they prove themselves with better form, even though they may have heavier lifts, they do not advance to the new weights.

In addition to all this, we have "seminar days" where guys like Jason Bergmann or Jason Christus come in and work exclusively with form.

B-

 

[cjangelo]

I work on their form during some very extensive warm ups. It takes them at least 20-30 min to get to their working sets. Then when they are there, the reps are done slow and deliberate. If they blow a rep, they have to do it again. Blow enough of them, the set it repeated. At the end of the cycle, when it is time to establish a new RM for the new cycle, unless they prove themselves with better form, even though they may have heavier lifts, they do not advance to the new weights.

In addition to all this, we have "seminar days" where guys like Jason Bergmann or Jason Christus come in and work exclusively with form.

B-

Fucking fantastic. Let me reiterate how jealous I am of those kids. And make sure to tell them to EAT!

Good luck with your team. Be sure to keep us posted.