Recovery

DrJMW · Jul 13, 2004

I have posted this recovery cycle many times. Since this is a new category, I will repost. This recovery cycle works 100% of the time. In extreme cases, it actually needs to be done twice. This recovery cycle is predicated on the fact that the athlete has something to recover. Baseline blood testing of testosterone levels, estradiol levels, and prolactin levels will tell the athlete the whole story. If the athlete's baseline Testos levels are low to low-normal of the range, then recovery is a waste of time. If the athlete's levels are in the middle, then a recovery cycle may be worth it to see the body's reaction.

Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.

evolutionoftherevolution · Jul 13, 2004

DrJMW said:
I have posted this recovery cycle many times. Since this is a new category, I will repost. This recovery cycle works 100% of the time. In extreme cases, it actually needs to be done twice. This recovery cycle is predicated on the fact that the athlete has something to recover. Baseline blood testing of testosterone levels, estradiol levels, and prolactin levels will tell the athlete the whole story. If the athlete's baseline Testos levels are low to low-normal of the range, then recovery is a waste of time. If the athlete's levels are in the middle, then a recovery cycle may be worth it to see the body's reaction.

Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.

I think this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again...at what point is HCG necessary? I did a short (4.5 week) cycle of testosterone, anavar and for the last week Halotestin and experienced zero testicular shrinkage, so I decided against HCG for that, and for another reason...

Isn't it true that HCG inhibits your body from producing LH? In my limited understanding of the HPTA access and steroids, the one thing that I've read (somewhat conclusively) is the fact that after a steroid cycle it's LH that's suppressed which causes the testosterone suppression, not the other way around. I also recall reading that there are VERY few anabolic steroids that suppress the testicles directly, rather they inhibit LH production.

If the above is true (if it's not then please correct me) then wouldn't it stand to reason to use HCG as a last resort and Clomid as the first line of defense?

My PCT which seems to be working damn well entails Arimidex (which in and of itself has an effect on increasing LH) and a moderate dose of Clomid - 100 mg for 4 days, then 50 mgs for 10. I'll be getting my bloodwork done in 2 weeks, so we'll see if I made the right choices.

I had my bloodwork done prior so I do have something to compare it to.

wutangnomo · Jul 13, 2004

Hey Doc! It is of my preference to use HCG during the cycle, but I like your recovery protocol. Now that I can get my accutane I'm going to do a test+EQ cycle for 10 weeks.

Cycle will be as follows:
Week 1-10: 200mg Test Enan
Week 1-10: 200mg EQ
Week 2-10: 500IU HCG (250IU Mon + 250IU Thurs)

Recovery will be as follows:
Week 12-17: 20mg Nolvadex daily

I will have arimidex on hand just in case. Thoughts?

Jenetic · Jul 13, 2004

DrJMW said:
I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.

I cant stress how important the above statements are.

DrJMW,

My standard PCT protocol is almost identical to yours except my dosage of HCG is 1,500 IU's which is primarily due to what is regulary available amongst other minor factors such as genetic predispositions.

Is there any particular reason for continuing treatment with Clomid? I might be missing out on something but the clinical effectiveness, benefits and risks don't seem to justify administration. Why not continue it with HCG? If the test readings show that the patient has not responded as expected, wouldn't you continue the HCG and Nolvadex therapy until the desired or acceptable levels are achieved?

Thanks in advance.

Jenetic

liquidmuscle · Jul 14, 2004

i love this board! globs of info in each forum

Mavy · Jul 14, 2004

Jenetic said:
I cant stress how important the above statements are.

DrJMW,

My standard PCT protocol is almost identical to yours except my dosage of HCG is 1,500 IU's which is primarily due to what is regulary available amongst other minor factors such as genetic predispositions.

Is there any particular reason for continuing treatment with Clomid? I might be missing out on something but the clinical effectiveness, benefits and risks don't seem to justify administration. Why not continue it with HCG? If the test readings show that the patient has not responded as expected, wouldn't you continue the HCG and Nolvadex therapy until the desired or acceptable levels are achieved?

Thanks in advance.

Jenetic

Eh Bro, ... I believe that the SERMS remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the HCG therapy has been stopped, to further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels.

DrJMW · Jul 14, 2004

I think this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again...at what point is HCG necessary? I did a short (4.5 week) cycle of testosterone, anavar and for the last week Halotestin and experienced zero testicular shrinkage, so I decided against HCG for that, and for another reason...

HERE IS THE PROBLEM. JUDGING SHRINKAGE IS SUBJECTIVE. THE RECOMMENDED USE OF HCG (THREE WHOLE WEEKS, THREE TIMES A WEEK AT THE SUGGESTED DOSES) IS NOT HARMFUL. 95% OF THE USERS DO HAVE SOME SHRINKAGE. SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATION IS UNRELIABLE.

Isn't it true that HCG inhibits your body from producing LH? In my limited understanding of the HPTA access and steroids, the one thing that I've read (somewhat conclusively) is the fact that after a steroid cycle it's LH that's suppressed which causes the testosterone suppression, not the other way around. I also recall reading that there are VERY few anabolic steroids that suppress the testicles directly, rather they inhibit LH production.

THERE IS SOME SUPPRESSION, BUT SO WHAT? THE IMMEDIATE GOAL IN THE FIRST THREE WEEKS OF RECOVERY IS TO GET THE TESTES BACK UP TO SIZE. LH SECRETIONS RECOVER VERY RAPIDLY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CYCLE, YOU SEE THAT NOLVA IS CONTINUED FOR THREE MORE WEEKS. THIS IS TO ENSURE A RAPID RECOVERY OF THE LH SECRETIONS.

If the above is true (if it's not then please correct me) then wouldn't it stand to reason to use HCG as a last resort and Clomid as the first line of defense?

NO. YOUR THINKING IS FUZZY.

My PCT which seems to be working damn well entails Arimidex (which in and of itself has an effect on increasing LH) and a moderate dose of Clomid - 100 mg for 4 days, then 50 mgs for 10. I'll be getting my bloodwork done in 2 weeks, so we'll see if I made the right choices.

AGAIN, IF YOUR PCT WORKS FOR YOU, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE. THE HCG/NOLVADEX/CLOMID RECOVERY CYCLE HAS BEEN USED BY ENDOCRINOLOGISTS FOR YEARS. AS FAR AS USING BLOOD TESTING, YOU WILL NEED TO POST YOUR BASELINE READINGS TO SEE THE COMPARISON. I HAVE FOUND NO STUDIES NOR HAVE I SEEN ANY INCREASES IN LH BECAUSE OF ARIMIDEX ALONE. IF YOU USED ARIMIDEX DURING THE CYCLE, YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS ARE ALREADY LOW. YOUW ANT YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS TO RECOVER AS WELL, SO USING ARIMIDEX DURING PCT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY FAILING PCT'S WHEN THE MAJORITY OF ATHLETES STRAY FROM BASIC, PROVEN RECOVERY CYCLES.

I had my bloodwork done prior so I do have something to compare it to.[/QUOTE]

GREAT. WE WILL AWAIT THE COMPARISON. YOU WILL ALSO NEED TO POST THE MEDS, DOSING AND FREQUENCY TAKEN PRIOR TO RECOVERY AS WELL AS EXACT DOSING, MEDS, FREQUENCY OF THE RECOVERY CYCLE.

IT SEEMS YOUR BASIC PREMISE IS THAT HCG IS NOT NEEDED IF SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS OF NO TESTICULAR SHRINKAGE HAS OCCURRED. AGAIN, THE MAJORITY OF USERS EXPERIENCE SHRINKAGE..YOU KNOW THIS FROM JUST READING THE FAILURES OF PCT ON THE BOARD.

VictorBR · Jul 15, 2004

I am curious. I know this has never failed for you patients. Does this also mean that you recommend their cycles? Is it usually Test and Decca? Anything else? I never see you mention anything else like D-bol . Obviously you can expect consistent results if you already know what to expect. What if someone who wasn't a regular patient came and needed PCT. Is this what you would always recommend him. What if it doesn't work?

Victor

DrJMW · Jul 16, 2004

VictorBR said:
I am curious. I know this has never failed for you patients. Does this also mean that you recommend their cycles? Is it usually Test and Decca? Anything else? I never see you mention anything else like D-bol . Obviously you can expect consistent results if you already know what to expect. What if someone who wasn't a regular patient came and needed PCT. Is this what you would always recommend him. What if it doesn't work?

IT SHOULD WORK FOR ALL AAS. I ONLY RECOMMEND CYCLES WITH AAS THAT IS FDA-APPROVED, HENCE I NEVER MENTION D-BOL, TREN, ETC. THE PRINCIPLES ARE THE SAME. THE RECOMMENDED PCT HAS WORKED ON EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE SHUT DOWN FOR MONTHS WITH TREN, D-BOL, ETC. IT HAS BEEN STANDARD TREATMENT FOR ENDOCRINOLOGISTS FOR YEARS.

IF THE RECOMMENDED RECOVERY CYCLE FAILS AFTER TWO ATTEMPTS, THE USER WILL REQUIRE HRT INDEFINITELY. HE EITHER HAS A FAILURE OF THE TESTES OR A FAILURE OF THE PITUITARY--BLOOD TESTS WILL REVEAL WHERE THE PROBLEM IS. ANOTEHR REASON FOR BASELINE BLOOD TESTING.

Victor

DrJMW · Aug 15, 2004

Bump....the recommended recovery cycle is the first post. This works for all AAS cycles (heavy, prolonged, or both). It also assumes that you have something to recover. If your natural, baseline testosterone levels are low to low-normal, do not expect the recovery cycle to significantly raise these levels. For low-to low-normal baseline athletes, I recommend that they stay "on" to maintain gains..and there are many ways to do maintenance..but they all require AAS.

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